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177 posts in this topic

Posted

Simple Fix: Add more grinding spots for people.. If there wasn't so few spots to grind, there wouldn't be a problem.

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Posted (edited)

 

It does exists and this topic comes up more than once. It has been shot down some time ago. From what I remember it like breaking the game into  two and the Dev/Pubs did not feel this was the right path to go with BDO.  

Sorry,  the devs/pubs will not half anything even if they would put up a PvE sever only.  Going this path of a PvE sever would just means you will have to deal with competing with PvEers and you just can not kill them. I guess that is why the karma system is so hardcore to PvPers.  When a player states something to the effect  " sufficient returns " or "farm efficiently " just means how much space you are willing to take. It is like saying a player need ALL of the level one mobs  in order to farm efficiently or have sufficient retruns, but you can not have one or the other just because there are two many grifers/kill-stealers you have to kill before going red and losing enchantments.  I am sure the PvEers will catch up to PvPers at some point because they always do. When that time happens then PvPers will will leave or just join zerg guild / form  mass alliances to try to block PvEers from catching up to them. Once PvE players catch up to PvP players the game is over for PvPers just because they are out number in every shap and form.

 

Please stop with hard segregations. The game is designed to have PvE and PvP at once, in unity of time and space. That's why it's labelled as PvX. It's a mindset. All fetaures are designed with that in mind, everything relies upon that.
That's why they won't give a dedicated PvE channel. There are two leveling channels for new or long gone players to catch up and have the time to learn the ropes, because systems are intricate and communicate with each others, but no dedicated channel with PvE or PvP activities only, because none of them were designed to work separately. You can like like one aspect more than the other (personally, I like the two), but can't prevent said other aspect to exist, because PvX.
Players are so used with classical themepark model (where there is no permeability between features and aspects of the game) since 10 years that they always segregate game aspects and try to cut it into little pieces by themselves, even if devs clearly stated that they want to do the exact opposite.

And yes, karma or some kind of regulation system of that type is and will always be needed in a game like BDO, because the game is not a meaningless Free For All arena indeed. Lineage 2 had it. Acts are supposed to have consequences. If you flag and attack someody, you must of course pay a price for trying to impose your will in a unilateral beligerant way.

 

Simple Fix: Add more grinding spots for people.. If there wasn't so few spots to grind, there wouldn't be a problem.

Yes, there is a problem with that indeed.

That's what Valencia mobs update is supposed to give. Sausans and Pirates are always saturated because they are still the most profitable places to make XP and silver even at high lvl, and why you see a lot of lvl 58 and above players there, when they should gravitate more towards the east.

They really need to give players more incentives to go to Valencia. Maybe when Nouver will released. Devs seem to be slowly going in this direction, but we're not still in the good spot with our version.

Edited by Capitaine Courage

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Posted

Lots of good points, and I agree that there needs to be more to do for people east of Altinova. Only having two viable spots is silly. I am sure it wastes the time of PvP players trying to progress as well as PvE players.

Now I am not going to get into any kind of argument about which play style is better than the other as some seem to try and do, and I understand that the game has been developed with both in mind, though I just don't think it works well that way.

I've run multiple guilds, some as large as 1000+ players, for many many years, and not one of my players have ever been able to tell me WHY PvP players would have any issues with PvE players having there own server. Not one. There has been a lot in this thread about risk vs reward etc, competition for spots. That has always been the case in every MMO I have ever played with or without OWPVP. I've had to out farm and compete for spots in 100% PVE games as well as those with PvP enabled. And I am not scared of PvP.

I can see no possible reason at all why PvP players would even want PvE only players around unless they only care for cheap kills and harassment. What possible difference is it going to make to any PvP person if there are no PvE only people in their channel? They don't want to PvP with you, so why do you care if they have their own channels/servers? Play with those who are of a like mind, and don't worry about those who are not. Why would you even care?

 

PS: if your reason against is 'git gud carebear go back to WoW/Hello Kitty' or whatever other insult you may have without actually thinking about your reply and trying to give me an answer that has been eluding me for my entire gaming life, you will be blocked an  ignored.

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Posted (edited)

Lots of good points, and I agree that there needs to be more to do for people east of Altinova. Only having two viable spots is silly. I am sure it wastes the time of PvP players trying to progress as well as PvE players.

Now I am not going to get into any kind of argument about which play style is better than the other as some seem to try and do, and I understand that the game has been developed with both in mind, though I just don't think it works well that way.

I've run multiple guilds, some as large as 1000+ players, for many many years, and not one of my players have ever been able to tell me WHY PvP players would have any issues with PvE players having there own server. Not one. There has been a lot in this thread about risk vs reward etc, competition for spots. That has always been the case in every MMO I have ever played with or without OWPVP. I've had to out farm and compete for spots in 100% PVE games as well as those with PvP enabled. And I am not scared of PvP.

I can see no possible reason at all why PvP players would even want PvE only players around unless they only care for cheap kills and harassment. What possible difference is it going to make to any PvP person if there are no PvE only people in their channel? They don't want to PvP with you, so why do you care if they have their own channels/servers? Play with those who are of a like mind, and don't worry about those who are not. Why would you even care?

 

PS: if your reason against is 'git gud carebear go back to WoW/Hello Kitty' or whatever other insult you may have without actually thinking about your reply and trying to give me an answer that has been eluding me for my entire gaming life, you will be blocked an  ignored.

No git gud or L2P. It's simply because how games are designed and what costs it implies

If you put an only PvE chanel in a game like BDO (an only PvP channel where you can only fight with others and nothing else wouldn't be better by the way), then you fragment core game design, and make meaningful features lose their substance because they lose their permeability.

That works with themeparks, because themeparks are linear experiences, fragmented by nature and design, but not well in sandboxes if their features are designed to be global and inclusive, with links between them.

If you create numerous versions of the game a posteriori, then devs will be forced to provide specific features for each one at one point, because players will end bored with an halved game, which induce a lot more work and the clear risk of losing your original game design intentions, only creating a meaningless mutant beast without head (or numerous ones), which will satisfy nobody in the end, because it wasn't originally designed to work like that.

In BDO specifically, regarding PvE aspects, what will happen is generalized killstealing because of players saturation. What you will see is players running everywhere and jumping on any mob that spawns, killing it instantly like rabid dogs, leading to frustration in the end. Because mobs (including their density, their patterns, their spawn points) were designed as loot pinatas, not challenge providers, for players to contest them and fight at one point if occupation of a determined place keeps inflating, thus regulating saturation.

And, still on BDO you will also lose all the emergent aspects of the game, and endgame features also, because they gravitate towards large scale fights between players in a GvG model to induce player driven politics : sieges, node wars, GvG (as a game mode but also and above all as a way to organise conflicts between groups, in opposition to RvR), ship battles soon. But to be efficient in these activities, you also need to be efficient in other aspects of the game. Fight between players are never supposed to be devoid of meaning in such games. You don't fight others just to kill them and make them feel bad. That would be stupid, it's not a meaningless Free For All. You fight because there are stakes : ressources, and players should always, always weight pros and cons before resorting to the belligerant way. That's why in some situations negociation is the best way to evacuate a conflict, and other times it's warfare. Emergent gameplay and player driven politics.That's also why players are expected to be aware of their surroundings on a micro and a macro scale.
But PvE exclusive players who don't want to have anything to do with PvP won't have acces to these endgames features in a PvE only channel.

The risk is that they will end up bored, with a feeling of being neglected (forgetting that they neglected the devs vision in the first place), and start to ask for specific features, taking time and ressources catering specifically to what they ask, fragmenting the game design and altering the reasons why people who exactly knew where they were going bought the game in the first place (PvX), in the same way players who only want to do PvP arenas or battlegrounds won't be satisfied either if there's a PvP only channel, because said PvP won't have substance, meaning or depth in a game like BDO if it's fragmented, and what they could ask could fragment the gamedesign even more.

Edited by Capitaine Courage

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Posted

 

Going this path of a PvE sever would just means you will have to deal with competing with PvEers and you just can not kill them. 

See, this is what I've never understood. in order to make that work, you'd have to out-grind them. To out-grind them, you need better gear than them. But if that's the case, then you would be able to kill them easily anyways?? Making the PvE channels not even really matter.

  I feel like in the case of grind spots, pvp was meant to cut down on that time wasted before realising you're outclassed, or simply make you realise that you're out skilled.  That, or to take matters into your own hands when some guy hangs around anyways trying to slow you down. In either case, the person who is better geared wins. A PvE server wouldn't change that at ALL?

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Posted

Courage I applaud you sir! That was a very fact driven, well spoken smack down. 

Very nicely done. Logic and facts hurt. 

There were just two opinions, nothing more.

Lots of good points, and I agree that there needs to be more to do for people east of Altinova. Only having two viable spots is silly. I am sure it wastes the time of PvP players trying to progress as well as PvE players.

Now I am not going to get into any kind of argument about which play style is better than the other as some seem to try and do, and I understand that the game has been developed with both in mind, though I just don't think it works well that way.

I've run multiple guilds, some as large as 1000+ players, for many many years, and not one of my players have ever been able to tell me WHY PvP players would have any issues with PvE players having there own server. Not one. There has been a lot in this thread about risk vs reward etc, competition for spots. That has always been the case in every MMO I have ever played with or without OWPVP. I've had to out farm and compete for spots in 100% PVE games as well as those with PvP enabled. And I am not scared of PvP.

I can see no possible reason at all why PvP players would even want PvE only players around unless they only care for cheap kills and harassment. What possible difference is it going to make to any PvP person if there are no PvE only people in their channel? They don't want to PvP with you, so why do you care if they have their own channels/servers? Play with those who are of a like mind, and don't worry about those who are not. Why would you even care?

 

PS: if your reason against is 'git gud carebear go back to WoW/Hello Kitty' or whatever other insult you may have without actually thinking about your reply and trying to give me an answer that has been eluding me for my entire gaming life, you will be blocked an  ignored.

Finally, someone who talks sense, well done that man, I Take my hat off sir.

No git gud or L2P. It's simply because how games are designed and what costs it implies

I find this comment unproductive.

If you put an only PvE chanel in a game like BDO (an only PvP channel where you can only fight with others and nothing else wouldn't be better by the way), then you fragment core game design, and make meaningful features lose their substance because they lose their permeability.

Opinion only, not fact. I in fact it will enrich the game by attracting new players and new ideas that could benefit different game designs.

That works with themeparks, because themeparks are linear experiences, fragmented by nature and design, but not well in sandboxes if their features are designed to be global and inclusive, with links between them.

Again that's opinion, not fact.

 

In BDO specifically, regarding PvE aspects, what will happen is generalized killstealing because of players saturation. What you will see is players running everywhere and jumping on any mob that spawns, killing it instantly like rabid dogs, leading to frustration in the end. Because mobs (including their density, their patterns, their spawn points) were designed as loot pinatas, not challenge providers, for players to contest them and fight at one point if occupation of a determined place keeps inflating, thus regulating saturation.

That happens already in the game, so having a PVE channel will make no difference? so whats your point?

And, still on BDO you will also lose all the emergent aspects of the game, and endgame features also, because they gravitate towards large scale fights between players in a GvG model to induce player driven politics : sieges, node wars, GvG (as a game mode but also and above all as a way to organise conflicts between groups, in opposition to RvR), ship battles soon. But to be efficient in these activities, you also need to be efficient in other aspects of the game. Fight between players are never supposed to be devoid of meaning in such games. You don't fight others just to kill them and make them feel bad. That would be stupid, it's not a meaningless Free For All. You fight because there are stakes : ressources, and players should always, always weight pros and cons before resorting to the belligerant way. That's why in some situations negociation is the best way to evacuate a conflict, and other times it's warfare. Emergent gameplay and player driven politics.That's also why players are expected to be aware of their surroundings on a micro and a macro scale.

But PvE exclusive players who don't want to have anything to do with PvP won't have acces to these endgames features in a PvE only channel.

The risk is that they will end up bored, with a feeling of being neglected (forgetting that they neglected the devs vision in the first place), and start to ask for specific features, taking time and ressources catering specifically to what they ask, fragmenting the game design and altering the reasons why people who exactly knew where they were going bought the game in the first place (PvX), in the same way players who only want to do PvP arenas or battlegrounds won't be satisfied either if there's a PvP only channel, because said PvP won't have substance, meaning or depth in a game like BDO if it's fragmented, and what they could ask could fragment the gamedesign even more.

I think this is largely a PVP point of opinion, not from a PVE point of view. If we had PVE channels the game for us at least would be much more stress free and less frustrating for us. We still want to level, but only to do PVE bosses, PVE raids and PVE dungeons that will hopefully come out in the future, new area's to do grinding, new life skills areas

you say we need to this and we need to that but we don't need to do anything, that's the beauty of PVE, its casual, we can hardcore it like a mofo or just glide at our own pace. It isn't race top the end like PVP, there is no struggle to get the best gear to overcome other players.

I can only speak for myself but I wouldn't miss doing node wars, siege wars or anything that involves killing other players

I know your a very competitive person so I don't expect you to understand where i'm coming from. Only to say that I'm quite confident that PVE players would welcome PVE channels and it would bring new life into the game as it will promote new dynamics through the segregation.

Trust me we wont be bored. The pursuit, at least for me isn't the thrill of guild wars or node wars, but to enjoy the game, my way, at my own pace.

Thats just my opinion.

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Posted (edited)

 

No git gud or L2P. It's simply because how games are designed and what costs it implies

I find this comment unproductive.

So you find it unproductive to tell your interlocutor that you come in peace, not to insult him ? It seems that you really have strange interactions with people.

And your opinion is to segregate game modes indeed, not to keep PvX.

Opinion only, not fact. I in fact it will enrich the game by attracting new players and new ideas that could benefit different game designs.

 Segregation

That happens already in the game, so having a PVE channel will make no difference? so whats your point?

 I explain clearly why it would be worse without some levers to regulation with current PvE easiness

That works with themeparks, because themeparks are linear experiences, fragmented by nature and design, but not well in sandboxes if their features are designed to be global and inclusive, with links between them.

Again that's opinion, not fact.

The fact that themeparks and sandboxes are not designed the same way is just ... a fact, otherwise we wouldn't talk about it, the 2 genres wouldn't even exist.

I think this is largely a PVP point of opinion, not from a PVE point of view. If we had PVE channels the game for us at least would be much more stress free and less frustrating for us. We still want to level, but only to do PVE bosses, PVE raids and PVE dungeons that will hopefully come out in the future, new area's to do grinding, new life skills areas

you say we need to this and we need to that but we don't need to do anything, that's the beauty of PVE, its casual, we can hardcore it like a mofo or just glide at our own pace. It isn't race top the end like PVP, there is no struggle to get the best gear to overcome other players.

I can only speak for myself but I wouldn't miss doing node wars, siege wars or anything that involves killing other players

I know your a very competitive person so I don't expect you to understand where i'm coming from. Only to say that I'm quite confident that PVE players would welcome PVE channels and it would bring new life into the game as it will promote new dynamics through the segregation.

Trust me we wont be bored. The pursuit, at least for me isn't the thrill of guild wars or node wars, but to enjoy the game, my way, at my own pace.

Thats just my opinion.

That's what i said, you want a classical themepark PvE design indeed, not a PvX game. So you really bought the game without knowing what it really was and now want it to be changed afterwards, you want the devs to change their vision because you were uninformed. That's not really what responsible consummers do.

Edited by Capitaine Courage

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So you find it unproductive to tell your interlocutor that you come in peace, not to insult him ? It seems that you really have strange interactions with people.

And your opinion is to segregate game modes indeed, not to keep PvX.

 Segregation

 I explain clearly why it would be worse without some levers to regulation with current PvE easiness

The fact that themeparks and sandboxes are not designed the same way is just ... a fact, otherwise we wouldn't talk about it, the 2 genres wouldn't even exist.

That's what i said, you want a classical themepark PvE design indeed, not a PvX game. So you really bought the game without knowing what it really was and now want it to be changed afterwards, you want the devs to change their vision because you were uninformed. That's not really what responsible consummers do.

I'm autistic.... enough said.

If that's what your calling it then yes, I'm saying change the game design from PVX to segregated PVP and PVE. I think it will be better for the players in the long run.

Actually is it, MMO are an evolving game, they evolve so they are never what the initial is. This is why they have a suggestion Thread, to make suggestion to change the game from the original design.

I'm afraid you don't explain it clearly. Maybe its me but your argument is very one sided from a PVP point of view. If we had a PVE channel it would actually be better for PVP players, no PVE players to get in the way, you can PVP all you want.

I really don't see why you see this.

I bought the game fully knowing what is was, but like any MMO it evolves beyond its design, to make it better for the players or whatever the devs want to do with it.

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Yes, there are many MMO without open PvP & GvG, that's why I play this one, which have it, and that's why you just took the wrong game if you can't bear it. And you use a simple binary reasonning, because maybe you are to used with themeparks : the game is not PvE, nor PvP, but PvX. The two at the same time in a unity of time and space. That doesn't mean that everything is perfect or that power gaps induced by gear are in the good spot, because they're not, but the general principles are as they are.

That's simple as that. You took the wrong game because you didn't do any researches prior buying, and now want said game to be changed because you don't want to assume your mistake and want the devs to do it for you. That's not what responsible adults do. That's what children do.

There is a suggestion thread, so they can...guess what...hear others' suggestions on how to improve the game.  It's not childish to take advantage of that avenue if it's offered, it's intelligent.  Some people like to use their words to negotiate the things they want rather than just PK others because they feel entitled or just decided to be a ----- for the day ruining other people's gaming experience. 

Your comments my friend, just show that you are being selfish, as no one is asking to TAKE AWAY anything you like about the game, only suggesting ways to make it more enjoyable to those that are not hard up for PVP.  Like I said, you don't like it, don't go into the PVE channel and things will be for you, just as they are today (except you can now likely expect a little more competition when you jump someone, which you should be thrilled about, right?).

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Posted (edited)

I explained what happen with current game design if you make an only pve chanel.

I'm autistic.... enough said.

 You say that, not me.
I said that I find it strange, yes, to tell someone that tells his interlocutor that he comes in peace and won't insult him or just say a lapidary "gitgud" that it's unproductive. It's like saiying courtesy and politeness are unproductive.

If that's what your calling it then yes, I'm saying change the game design from PVX to segregated PVP and PVE. I think it will be better for the players in the long run.

Actually is it, MMO are an evolving game, they evolve so they are never what the initial is. This is why they have a suggestion Thread, to make suggestion to change the game from the original design.

I'm afraid you don't explain it clearly. Maybe its me but your argument is very one sided from a PVP point of view. If we had a PVE channel it would actually be better for PVP players, no PVE players to get in the way, you can PVP all you want.

I really don't see why you see this.

I bought the game fully knowing what is was, but like any MMO it evolves beyond its design, to make it better for the players or whatever the devs want to do with it.

Because segregating PvE and PvP has nothing to do with PvX ! How hard it is to understand ? I can't say it more clearly. The game was always designed as a PvX one. There are plenty others that segregate game modes if you want.

There is a suggestion thread, so they can...guess what...hear others' suggestions on how to improve the game.  It's not childish to take advantage of that avenue if it's offered, it's intelligent.  Some people like to use their words to negotiate the things they want rather than just PK others because they feel entitled or just decided to be a ----- for the day ruining other people's gaming experience. 

Your comments my friend, just show that you are being selfish, as no one is asking to TAKE AWAY anything you like about the game, only suggesting ways to make it more enjoyable to those that are not hard up for PVP.  Like I said, you don't like it, don't go into the PVE channel and things will be for you, just as they are today (except you can now likely expect a little more competition when you jump someone, which you should be thrilled about, right?).

You don't read it seems, but you like to assume a lot on the other hand. Sourness and repressed frustration doesn't suit you well. The game as it is now; with PvX, doesn't prevent you to use diplomacy if you don't want to resort to warfare, because they are the two side of the same coin, geopolitics, and it's something players are expected to do in a PvX sandbox game, I stated it numerous times, but you don't read, you just react.

I also explained what would happen if you do a pve only channel with current game design. And what would happen with time -> segregation of game designs and game modes, and studio ressources are finite. Devs does not want to support different versions of the game nor fragment their game design. There's nothing selfish about that. Just listening to what the game devs say.

Edited by Capitaine Courage

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Posted (edited)

That's cause the other people NOT NAMING ANYONE are too silly to actually try and avoid it or take steps like using inbuild game features to avoid it so they then write up dumb forum posts about how they need a safe space and the game should reform to what they want not what the rest of the community wants

So I'll just clear it up, I would be who you are referring to as "silly" and "dumb" since I am the author of this particular post, so thanks for your mature input into this discussion.

For the record however, I have played MANY MMO's....I'm not after an easy/safe environment.  If I were, I would play a single player game and would turn it on easy mode.  I am not opposed to a challenge....I would love for the boss fights to provide more of a challenge, for there to be dungeons or encounters that actually required some strategy and had fights that required some really smooth teamwork and cooperation, etc..  What I don't care for however is PK'ing.  I don't like PVP,  that's true, but you can't even call what's in this game Openworld "PVP"....it's more like harassment, or at least those are the portions that drive me to request a PVE only channel.

As far as avoiding areas...I am highly respectful to other players. If I go to an area and someone is grinding there, I will leave and find somewhere else....100% of the time.  You have to have a little understanding though, there is not a bright red line drawn stating where someone's grinding area begins and ends (and let's face it, some folks like to claim the entire map almost), so folks just need to chill out if another player just happens near the area.  I never try to push players out, because others are correct, there are PLENTY of areas where you can find a spot to go.  Problem is, that is my mentality....but not that of a lot of the other players.  Instead, they come to where I am and kill me to take my spot that I had searched out, rather than find their own, and sorry but I have a job and can't spend all day trying to find a channel or area where there are ZERO people in like a 50 mile radius because others can't play nice (esp with a 10 min cool down for channel swapping).

Look, I'm thrilled for those of you that have not experienced this...truly is great for you.  I wish I were in your shoes.  Maybe the server I was on just has a much higher ratio of assholes....I don't know.  The truth however is that this happens (at least to me and my friends) frequently enough to take all the enjoyment out of the game at times, which is sad because when BS like that is NOT happening, it can be a very enjoyable game.  There are tons of things to do in this game without ever having to PVP the first time.  That is all I'm suggesting, an option for those that do NOT want a part of the PK'ing.

Edited by Luna Nightshade
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Because segregating PvE and PvP has nothing to do with PvX ! How hard it is to understand ? I can't say it more clearly. The game was always designed as a PvX one. There are plenty others that segregate game modes if you want.

okay.... i understand that PVE and PVP are different to PVX, and that the game is CURRENTLY PVX, what i'm suggesting is changing it FROM PVX to PVE/PVP with segregated channels. I understand you perfectly but it seems your getting really angry because I won't agree with you or symapthise with your argument, I'm sorry buddy that's life, no matter how many big fancy words you use or explain it in all different ways I won't agree with you. That's life!. That's freedom of expression and the right to free thinking, that's what I'm father and grandfather died for. I respect your stance but sadly don't agree with it.

I know there are other games out there but I like this one and I think it could be even better with segregated PVP/PVE channels. Call the game whatever you want, thats what I think would be a good idea. I think that it will solve allot of problems and is quite easily implemented when thinking about it, all they have to do is turn off PVP in some channels and PRESTO! PVE channel. 

I'm thinking of everyone here. I think PVP people will be much happier with us PVE players out of the way hogging up all the mobs and griefing you as you like to say, no more griefing, no more casuals, no more PVE'ers getting in your way? I thought this was a great idea for everyone?

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Well, while I would be in favor of PvE channels as such, unfortunately the very same wannabe PvPers who dismiss the idea will ultimately be the reason why the idea is doomed to fail: The moment you put PvE channels in, the tryhards will go there in order to get rid of their negative karma as well as grind "safely" before returning to their "PvP-activities" on other channels. With no way to get someone out of a grind-spot, instead of PK (which currently at least results in a karma-loss) we'll now see players trying to killsteal mobs till one quits. Therefore, it's highly doubtful that a PvE-only channel would create a better gaming experience overall.

 

Easy fix for this, if your Karma is below a certain level (wouldn't even have to be negative), then you can't log into a PVE channel. 

I'm also FINE with a dedicated PVE channel, meaning if you join the PVE channels, you can't swap back to one of the PVP channels (and they could of course offer something like 7 days to figure out if you like the channel before you're bound to it, or something along those lines).  I would only need about 2 seconds though.

Lots of good points, and I agree that there needs to be more to do for people east of Altinova. Only having two viable spots is silly. I am sure it wastes the time of PvP players trying to progress as well as PvE players.

Now I am not going to get into any kind of argument about which play style is better than the other as some seem to try and do, and I understand that the game has been developed with both in mind, though I just don't think it works well that way.

I've run multiple guilds, some as large as 1000+ players, for many many years, and not one of my players have ever been able to tell me WHY PvP players would have any issues with PvE players having there own server. Not one. There has been a lot in this thread about risk vs reward etc, competition for spots. That has always been the case in every MMO I have ever played with or without OWPVP. I've had to out farm and compete for spots in 100% PVE games as well as those with PvP enabled. And I am not scared of PvP.

I can see no possible reason at all why PvP players would even want PvE only players around unless they only care for cheap kills and harassment. What possible difference is it going to make to any PvP person if there are no PvE only people in their channel? They don't want to PvP with you, so why do you care if they have their own channels/servers? Play with those who are of a like mind, and don't worry about those who are not. Why would you even care?

 

PS: if your reason against is 'git gud carebear go back to WoW/Hello Kitty' or whatever other insult you may have without actually thinking about your reply and trying to give me an answer that has been eluding me for my entire gaming life, you will be blocked an  ignored.

This is my point exactly.  I don't want to take anything AWAY from a PVP'er, as if anything this should provide them with a higher level of competition and they don't have to listen to me and others of a like mind, complain when we get attacked for no reason.

You don't read it seems, but you like to assume a lot on the other hand. Sourness and repressed frustration doesn't suit you well. The game as it is now;

with PvX,

doesn't prevent you to use diplomacy if you don't want to resort to warfare, because they are the two side of the same coin, geopolitics, and it's something players are expected to do in a PvX sandbox game, I stated it numerous times, but you don't read, you just react.

I also explained what would happen if you do a pve only channel with current game design. And what would happen with time -> segregation of game designs and game modes, and studio ressources are finite. Devs does not want to support different versions of the game nor fragment their game design. There's nothing selfish about that. Just listening to what the game devs say.

Yes, yes... and sadly I do read, and frankly I am tired of hearing your theme park references...because I've played many MMORPG games with PVE only channels and/or very similar concepts (with the PVP and PVE separated), and they work GREAT (all of which have resource mining and grinding for levels), so while you are of the opinion that a PVE channel will be a disaster, great you're entitled to your own opinion...so just DON'T PLAY THERE.  That's the beauty of it...options for those that enjoy different things!  You want a world where you can PVP because that's what you think makes the game go 'round...awesome, you've got it!  ...and no one is suggesting to take that from you so why you are so opposed to others getting enjoyment out of this game for different reasons, I just don't know.

As for diplomacy, I use it ALL THE TIME!  Hell, I'll even give up my spot if someone is polite or asks.  The issue is when diplomacy is not an option because someone killed you out of nowhere.  They took that option from you by choosing to forego talking through whatever ill will they held toward you and simply killed you immediately instead.  Oh, and I don't want ANYTHING to be different on the PVE server, other than no PVP or both parties must be flagged, so nothing "different" for the devs to  have to support other than an extra line or two of code to prevent PVP or unflagged PVP.

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No git gud or L2P. It's simply because how games are designed and what costs it implies

If you put an only PvE chanel in a game like BDO (an only PvP channel where you can only fight with others and nothing else wouldn't be better by the way), then you fragment core game design, and make meaningful features lose their substance because they lose their permeability.

That works with themeparks, because themeparks are linear experiences, fragmented by nature and design, but not well in sandboxes if their features are designed to be global and inclusive, with links between them.

If you create numerous versions of the game a posteriori, then devs will be forced to provide specific features for each one at one point, because players will end bored with an halved game, which induce a lot more work and the clear risk of losing your original game design intentions, only creating a meaningless mutant beast without head (or numerous ones), which will satisfy nobody in the end, because it wasn't originally designed to work like that.

In BDO specifically, regarding PvE aspects, what will happen is generalized killstealing because of players saturation. What you will see is players running everywhere and jumping on any mob that spawns, killing it instantly like rabid dogs, leading to frustration in the end. Because mobs (including their density, their patterns, their spawn points) were designed as loot pinatas, not challenge providers, for players to contest them and fight at one point if occupation of a determined place keeps inflating, thus regulating saturation.

And, still on BDO you will also lose all the emergent aspects of the game, and endgame features also, because they gravitate towards large scale fights between players in a GvG model to induce player driven politics : sieges, node wars, GvG (as a game mode but also and above all as a way to organise conflicts between groups, in opposition to RvR), ship battles soon. But to be efficient in these activities, you also need to be efficient in other aspects of the game. Fight between players are never supposed to be devoid of meaning in such games. You don't fight others just to kill them and make them feel bad. That would be stupid, it's not a meaningless Free For All. You fight because there are stakes : ressources, and players should always, always weight pros and cons before resorting to the belligerant way. That's why in some situations negociation is the best way to evacuate a conflict, and other times it's warfare. Emergent gameplay and player driven politics.That's also why players are expected to be aware of their surroundings on a micro and a macro scale.
But PvE exclusive players who don't want to have anything to do with PvP won't have acces to these endgames features in a PvE only channel.

The risk is that they will end up bored, with a feeling of being neglected (forgetting that they neglected the devs vision in the first place), and start to ask for specific features, taking time and ressources catering specifically to what they ask, fragmenting the game design and altering the reasons why people who exactly knew where they were going bought the game in the first place (PvX), in the same way players who only want to do PvP arenas or battlegrounds won't be satisfied either if there's a PvP only channel, because said PvP won't have substance, meaning or depth in a game like BDO if it's fragmented, and what they could ask could fragment the gamedesign even more.

Sorry, was late when I originally posted and only just getting to this.

My suggestion.: Enable PvE only channels, when a player next logs in they are given a one time account wide permanent option to disable ALL PvP (including node wars etc) and if they do so, they are restricted to those PvE channels. They would not be able to go back to PvP enabled channels. You wont have to fear any carebear gearing up unmolested and coming back to fight you. These players are simply not interested at all in PvP, so why would they anyway. This would also restrict their access to Node/Guild wars and so forth, if they want to participate in that, do not flag the account as PvE only. Leaving PvP enabled would also restrict the player from entering the PvE only channels to prevent exploiting it and using it a s a safe house when they can't handle the heat. It wold have to be account wide to stop resources being obtained by one character on a PvE channel and being passed on to a character on a  PvP enabled channel. Hard choice, but one I am sure plenty are will to make.

I would also support 100% PvP channels, where you are always flagged, limited safe zones etc. These would not be restricted to anyone unless they have the PvE only flag on their account. I doubt however the population of these channels would be high. I have yet to see a game where PvP is any where near as popular as people like to think it is. FFA PvP games are very niche and usually low populated in my personal experience. I would flag my 2nd account for those channels for sure however. I've played games like before, perma-flagged, able to be ganked in towns,at the bank, doing some crafting. It was awesome. It goes both ways. I am positive the average PvE player would also support this as long as they did not have to be a part of it.

I consider myself PvX, I enjoy both styles of play, but tbh, given the above options, I would be in a PvE channel. I am too old and lack the patience for constant PvP. I bought this game for the amazing seamless world, the drop dead gorgeous characters I can make(my girls ♥♥♥), the abundance of life skills and an immersive experience I get just fine without feeling the need to be fighting someone 100 times a day. PvP was about the only negative, and yes, before any one says anything, I knew exactly what the game was about before I  pre-ordered, I played CBT, I knew that PvP, PK'ing etc was a part of the design. Anyone who did more than 30seconds of research knew this. I see a lot of comments proclaiming ignorance on behalf of those more interested in PvE, and while in minor cases that would very well be the truth as some PvE defense arguments have tried in this thread, please give more credit to people than that. Do not try to paint me with the ignorant brush.

PvE only channels will have zero affect on any of the 'emergent' game play for everyone else who chose to continue with PvP enabled. Node wars, sieges, OWPVP will not need to be changed in anyways for the majority of channels. Why should they be. Allowing PvE only channels is just that. It will have no affect on how the game currently is. These players are already playing the game, just as those who wish to PvP are, the design of the game does not have to be fragmented. You seem to forget that the people who want these channels seem, for the majority, to have no interest in nodes and sieges and guild wars, if they are they would not be requesting channels without this content.
Gear progression, leveling, is not as important to them as they do not wish to engage is the more competitive parts of the game. they want to do their thing, life skill, level at their own pace.

Your comment: "But PvE exclusive players who don't want to have anything to do with PvP won't have acces to these endgames features in a PvE only channel."

That is precisely the point. They don't want anything to do with PvP. Access to these end game 'emergent' features based around PvP are completely moot in this argument, because they don't want anything to do with PvP. If they do, then they will simply have to deal with having PvP enabled and be in the appropriate channels. They will need to make a choice, if that choice is ever granted. No one is asking PvP players to stop PvPing, they just want to be left out of it.

Nothing needs to be changed, nothing needs to be fragmented. The game can be developed exactly how it is now. In fact it may even benefit the more hardcore PvP players out there as things like Karma penalties, no exp loss on death etc can be relaxed or even removed on channels that retain PvP. People have already been asking for more PvE related in game activities, such as dungeons and more meaningful PvE combat experiences, they are doing this without having any existing PvE channels. They have been doing this for years in KR, even if only a vocal minority. They will continue to do so regardless. Remember, there are a lot of PvE based players here now, that are here for reasons other than dungeons etc. just as there are plenty in PvE based games who do not Raid, preferring to craft, RP, quest, explore, whatever they wish. There is a lot of knee jerk fear based reactions as soon as anyone opens their mouth about anything PvE. No one is trying to ruin the game for anyone else, they just want it to accommodate more preferred play styles. That can only equal more players, more income for the devs and more their consequential ability to develop the game in a way that can provide features to benefit all.

The risk is yes they can end up bored, same goes for every other player out there. There is also the risk they will get bored/frustrated/plain tired of having to deal with PvP as  I see many people over the last few months state. This is a population drop either way, but it would be in the best interest of all to have something to retain the players that are still here, and maybe give incentive to those who have so far skipped on BDO due to the forced PvP aspects to comeback. They buy pearls, outfits and other things just as much as the average PvP player does. Do not devalue their existence because they chose a different play style.You risk losing players either way, so why not?  I feel that your concern is not or the PvE players at all, but for your own (please don't be insulted) People are going to get bored. Keep the game as it is now, or change it to allow more play styles, people are going to get bored. People get bored of every MMO. That is just a fact of MMO life. PvE players will get bored. PvP players will get bored. PvX players will get bored. They will get bored of BDO, they will go back to another game, they will get bored of that. A new game will come out, everyone jumps on the bandwagon, 6 weeks later half of them are bored of it. "Boredom" is a weak argument sorry. It happens anyway.

 

I have over 5000hrs invested on my main account alone. I have 3 accounts, have spent pearls on all of them. I don't PvP, (not by choice despite being fully boss geared except one weapon and I only need that to defend myself against PK attempts), my guild is tiny and does not engage in nodes wars or sieges, have never been involved in a guild war and we like it that way. We are small in number but those who are active are on every day, and as stated above, have put 1000's of hours into it, and hundreds of dollars. We are as just as valuable to the game and to Kakao/PA as those who play it for everything we do not. Also, I am not bored yet, and it isn't PvP that is keeping me interested.

There are two sides to every coin, no one wants any one to stop PvPing and enjoying the game as it is now. Why would you want to prevent a PvE player from enjoying the same? It's got nothing to do with game design or "Vision" Those are fluid values, in any game, MMO or otherwise, and have been long before we got our version of the game. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise, or it will stagnate, and it will die. Seek support from all players, not just niche.

 

Regardless, I love this game, I love my characters and the world they live in, PvE channels or not, i will continue to play for as long as I can. I simply fail to see any argument against PvE channels that even comes close to convincing me they are a bad idea.

 

I've not read the rest of the thread yet and any other comments, got things happening RL and in game. Probably unlikely I will even make it back to this thread, I've said my peace. i should never have posted here in the first place but was stupid stoned on painkillers and it was like 4am. I remain perplexed as ever regarding my original question. I just don't understand the sometimes violent reactions this subject brings up on both sides of the argument. I guess I will die not knowing.

 

Keep an open mind, everyone, PvP and PvE players alike. No one is right, no one is wrong. Find a compromise, it exists.

 

Peace.

 

 

 

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Sorry, was late when I originally posted and only just getting to this.

My suggestion.: Enable PvE only channels, when a player next logs in they are given a one time account wide permanent option to disable ALL PvP (including node wars etc) and if they do so, they are restricted to those PvE channels. They would not be able to go back to PvP enabled channels. You wont have to fear any carebear gearing up unmolested and coming back to fight you. These players are simply not interested at all in PvP, so why would they anyway. This would also restrict their access to Node/Guild wars and so forth, if they want to participate in that, do not flag the account as PvE only. Leaving PvP enabled would also restrict the player from entering the PvE only channels to prevent exploiting it and using it a s a safe house when they can't handle the heat. It wold have to be account wide to stop resources being obtained by one character on a PvE channel and being passed on to a character on a  PvP enabled channel. Hard choice, but one I am sure plenty are will to make.

I would also support 100% PvP channels, where you are always flagged, limited safe zones etc. These would not be restricted to anyone unless they have the PvE only flag on their account. I doubt however the population of these channels would be high. I have yet to see a game where PvP is any where near as popular as people like to think it is. FFA PvP games are very niche and usually low populated in my personal experience. I would flag my 2nd account for those channels for sure however. I've played games like before, perma-flagged, able to be ganked in towns,at the bank, doing some crafting. It was awesome. It goes both ways. I am positive the average PvE player would also support this as long as they did not have to be a part of it.

I consider myself PvX, I enjoy both styles of play, but tbh, given the above options, I would be in a PvE channel. I am too old and lack the patience for constant PvP. I bought this game for the amazing seamless world, the drop dead gorgeous characters I can make(my girls ♥♥♥), the abundance of life skills and an immersive experience I get just fine without feeling the need to be fighting someone 100 times a day. PvP was about the only negative, and yes, before any one says anything, I knew exactly what the game was about before I  pre-ordered, I played CBT, I knew that PvP, PK'ing etc was a part of the design. Anyone who did more than 30seconds of research knew this. I see a lot of comments proclaiming ignorance on behalf of those more interested in PvE, and while in minor cases that would very well be the truth as some PvE defense arguments have tried in this thread, please give more credit to people than that. Do not try to paint me with the ignorant brush.

PvE only channels will have zero affect on any of the 'emergent' game play for everyone else who chose to continue with PvP enabled. Node wars, sieges, OWPVP will not need to be changed in anyways for the majority of channels. Why should they be. Allowing PvE only channels is just that. It will have no affect on how the game currently is. These players are already playing the game, just as those who wish to PvP are, the design of the game does not have to be fragmented. You seem to forget that the people who want these channels seem, for the majority, to have no interest in nodes and sieges and guild wars, if they are they would not be requesting channels without this content.
Gear progression, leveling, is not as important to them as they do not wish to engage is the more competitive parts of the game. they want to do their thing, life skill, level at their own pace.

Your comment: "But PvE exclusive players who don't want to have anything to do with PvP won't have acces to these endgames features in a PvE only channel."

That is precisely the point. They don't want anything to do with PvP. Access to these end game 'emergent' features based around PvP are completely moot in this argument, because they don't want anything to do with PvP. If they do, then they will simply have to deal with having PvP enabled and be in the appropriate channels. They will need to make a choice, if that choice is ever granted. No one is asking PvP players to stop PvPing, they just want to be left out of it.

Nothing needs to be changed, nothing needs to be fragmented. The game can be developed exactly how it is now. In fact it may even benefit the more hardcore PvP players out there as things like Karma penalties, no exp loss on death etc can be relaxed or even removed on channels that retain PvP. People have already been asking for more PvE related in game activities, such as dungeons and more meaningful PvE combat experiences, they are doing this without having any existing PvE channels. They have been doing this for years in KR, even if only a vocal minority. They will continue to do so regardless. Remember, there are a lot of PvE based players here now, that are here for reasons other than dungeons etc. just as there are plenty in PvE based games who do not Raid, preferring to craft, RP, quest, explore, whatever they wish. There is a lot of knee jerk fear based reactions as soon as anyone opens their mouth about anything PvE. No one is trying to ruin the game for anyone else, they just want it to accommodate more preferred play styles. That can only equal more players, more income for the devs and more their consequential ability to develop the game in a way that can provide features to benefit all.

The risk is yes they can end up bored, same goes for every other player out there. There is also the risk they will get bored/frustrated/plain tired of having to deal with PvP as  I see many people over the last few months state. This is a population drop either way, but it would be in the best interest of all to have something to retain the players that are still here, and maybe give incentive to those who have so far skipped on BDO due to the forced PvP aspects to comeback. They buy pearls, outfits and other things just as much as the average PvP player does. Do not devalue their existence because they chose a different play style.You risk losing players either way, so why not?  I feel that your concern is not or the PvE players at all, but for your own (please don't be insulted) People are going to get bored. Keep the game as it is now, or change it to allow more play styles, people are going to get bored. People get bored of every MMO. That is just a fact of MMO life. PvE players will get bored. PvP players will get bored. PvX players will get bored. They will get bored of BDO, they will go back to another game, they will get bored of that. A new game will come out, everyone jumps on the bandwagon, 6 weeks later half of them are bored of it. "Boredom" is a weak argument sorry. It happens anyway.

 

I have over 5000hrs invested on my main account alone. I have 3 accounts, have spent pearls on all of them. I don't PvP, (not by choice despite being fully boss geared except one weapon and I only need that to defend myself against PK attempts), my guild is tiny and does not engage in nodes wars or sieges, have never been involved in a guild war and we like it that way. We are small in number but those who are active are on every day, and as stated above, have put 1000's of hours into it, and hundreds of dollars. We are as just as valuable to the game and to Kakao/PA as those who play it for everything we do not. Also, I am not bored yet, and it isn't PvP that is keeping me interested.

There are two sides to every coin, no one wants any one to stop PvPing and enjoying the game as it is now. Why would you want to prevent a PvE player from enjoying the same? It's got nothing to do with game design or "Vision" Those are fluid values, in any game, MMO or otherwise, and have been long before we got our version of the game. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise, or it will stagnate, and it will die. Seek support from all players, not just niche.

 

Regardless, I love this game, I love my characters and the world they live in, PvE channels or not, i will continue to play for as long as I can. I simply fail to see any argument against PvE channels that even comes close to convincing me they are a bad idea.

 

I've not read the rest of the thread yet and any other comments, got things happening RL and in game. Probably unlikely I will even make it back to this thread, I've said my peace. i should never have posted here in the first place but was stupid stoned on painkillers and it was like 4am. I remain perplexed as ever regarding my original question. I just don't understand the sometimes violent reactions this subject brings up on both sides of the argument. I guess I will die not knowing.

 

Keep an open mind, everyone, PvP and PvE players alike. No one is right, no one is wrong. Find a compromise, it exists.

 

Peace.

 

 

 

+1 to this. :D

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So my apologies if this already exists, as I did a search but could not find a post on this.

Please make a couple (or even 1 to start with) of the channels PVE-only, or at least add a requirement on one that all players must be flagged in order to engage in PVP (so that one person can't flag and attack someone else that's not flagged).

There is a large subset of players that simply enjoy all the different PVE aspects that BDO offers, such as fishing / AFK fishing, or training their horses, or farming, or completing guild/story quests, or gathering ore/timber, etc...  But it is very frustrating when someone comes over and starts griefing you for no reason or kills you while you're AFK - that's not even PVP it's just harassment.  If I wanted to PVP, I would be flagged, but odds are I have on training clothes or gathering clothes and am just trying to do my own thing then here comes someone for no reason and just attacks me.  Or better yet someone gets angry because I killed the ogre that spawned 2 feet away from the area I've been farming by myself for the last hour, because they were channel hopping and felt all ogres belonged to them, or were just being jerks...and they wait until I'm near the end of the fight to determine how geared I am so they can see if they can easily kill me while I'm distracted.

My point in all this is to say that not everyone bought this game because they wanted to PVP (especially in this manner), but many purchased it because they enjoyed all the various activities and life skills that BDO offers, but due to how the PVP is set up in this game, a lot of those individuals can't even enjoy the game and play it how they want to play it, despite having paid the same amount of money for this game as the PK'er.

By providing a PVE only channel(s) you can see how many players are interested in just the PVE aspects of the game, while still providing numerous channels for PVP just as it is today.  If no one uses the channel, you could easily change it back to a regular channel (just like today you have Olvia set up as a returning player XP bonus area for example, you could have a few that are PVE only or where all players must be flagged to PVP).  Tons of MMO's offer dedicated PVP servers, or role play servers, etc... so you can play the way you want to play.  You do not have to force those that are only here for the PVE to play alongside those that love to PVP in all aspects, you can actually provide the best of both worlds, keeping all your players happy and providing options for each to play how they want to play.

If a player does not like the inability to attack someone that is not flagged, then they don't have to play on the PVE channel.  But the PVE'ers don't have to PVP constantly just to complete their dailies or farm some wood either.  You are losing good players who really enjoy this game because of the forced PVP, so please consider my suggestion and provide both sides with options that fit their playstyle.

Please and thank you.

Agreed.

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Only if everything, silver, XP and drop is at least halved. Risk comes from other players in BDO and nothing else. You can't die from anything else than another player or your own stupidity as it is now.

So no risk, no rewards. You can dislike OpenPvP, it's not your thing, no problem with that. But you can't prevent it to exist as it is, and as it was always designed since the very first korean CBT, because you can't put risk out of the game, morevover when it's already easilly avoidable with the new megaserver (36 channels).

Oh, and by the way, you won't be able to farm efficiently in an only PvE channel, you'll just end up killstealing form each other without any possible regulation. Mobs are not designed to support and provide sufficient returns if too many people are in the same space.

And craft and lifeskills are not PvE, neither PvP by the way, because there is no "versus" notion in these activites. They are tools.

There is no risk. Never was in "pure" PvE games and there is none in BDO. As far as I can tell, most BDO players are not interested in open world PvP. You know, it does not matter how BDO was designed, the second the game went life, it became our game and is no longer just "the devs game"... and so, they have to adapt (In my opinion BDO open world pvp fails, because BDO pvp is a fail... thought that is a dicussion for another thread).

To ask for pure PvE and pure "open world" PvP channels is pretty normal. And though you agree, you want to cripple the PvE channels for a reason I do not realy see. No risk? Well, what risk is here anyway? First, pve was NEVER a threat, and never will be (except you make a MMO like Dark Souls... but even that game is with the right skill and experience extremely easy), so that is not a valid point. So you speak about PvP.... what PvP? The only unforeseeable risk are this griefing PKs, but that is so rare, it does not even count. And then we got the occasional fight over a spot... yes that happens, it depends on who you ask, some say too often and some say not often enough. But as most players are not interested in PvP, it actualy does not happen that often.

Next you speak about this "efficient farming"... true, but you know what, the players will spread, eventualy. There are so many valid spots, but like 90% of active farming players are at the sausans... had a guy there yesterday, and the day before, and the day before (always another one), lvl 59 and 200AP... and I thought "what the heck are they doing here"...

TL,DR: Long story short, its about time to have some pure PvE channels, because we got a ton of players who are quite upset when they get killed through PvP and yearn for pure PvE experience, but limiting such PvE channels will result in absolutely nothing. The player who do not enjoy PvP will stay in the PvP channels and continue becoming angry/upset.

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Please stop with hard segregations. The game is designed to have PvE and PvP at once, in unity of time and space. That's why it's labelled as PvX. It's a mindset. All fetaures are designed with that in mind, everything relies upon that.
That's why they won't give a dedicated PvE channel. There are two leveling channels for new or long gone players to catch up and have the time to learn the ropes, because systems are intricate and communicate with each others, but no dedicated channel with PvE or PvP activities only, because none of them were designed to work separately. You can like like one aspect more than the other (personally, I like the two), but can't prevent said other aspect to exist, because PvX.
Players are so used with classical themepark model (where there is no permeability between features and aspects of the game) since 10 years that they always segregate game aspects and try to cut it into little pieces by themselves, even if devs clearly stated that they want to do the exact opposite.

And yes, karma or some kind of regulation system of that type is and will always be needed in a game like BDO, because the game is not a meaningless Free For All arena indeed. Lineage 2 had it. Acts are supposed to have consequences. If you flag and attack someody, you must of course pay a price for trying to impose your will in a unilateral beligerant way.

 

Yes, there is a problem with that indeed.

That's what Valencia mobs update is supposed to give. Sausans and Pirates are always saturated because they are still the most profitable places to make XP and silver even at high lvl, and why you see a lot of lvl 58 and above players there, when they should gravitate more towards the east.

They really need to give players more incentives to go to Valencia. Maybe when Nouver will released. Devs seem to be slowly going in this direction, but we're not still in the good spot with our version.

I am sorry maybe I did not say the dev/pubs was not going down that path because it like splitting the game into two games .... oh wait I did say that my bad.

Your second point the own way you will get players who are capped out to move to valencia is to have dimishing retruns in the other zones and this is also a path that the devs/puds choose not to wallk.

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I don't mind the PvP. I've been killed in every PK encounter I've had. From one vs one to being jumped by 5 people while I'm just trying to grind. Oh well. That's the game.

There are a few things, to me, that seem redundant. The PvP toggle is one of them. I get that it's meant to ride on the Karma system. So.. maybe get rid of the Karma system and make it so the PvP toggle actually enables or disables being able to be killed by others? That way if people want to murder and kill relentlessly, they can without being punished. If someone doesn't want to be murdered or killed relentlessly, they have that option without an entire new channel needing to be set up. Seems fair enough.

At the same time, even after reading all these posts, some of which having great points for both sides, I still don't see why setting aside one or two of the channels for PvE-ers is such a big deal. Since the merge, there are plenty to go around. It's just a game. The real world keeps turning either way. Try it. If it fails then it does.

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It's actually lvl 50 now as of the last patch right?

yup 50 is the start of pvp once you done the quest...took them a long while to sort that out...so those that do not want to pvp stay under 49.

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I'm not really against a seperate channel for PvE. I would probably use it, lol. I'm not that much of a PvPer. Although I have to say that my experiences with the community have been pretty good, fortunately. Some people are rude, but they don't kill me or anything. In the time I've been playing BDO, I've been unfairly killed once (which was also the only time I've ever been killed by another player, because I don't flag and people don't attack me). I've been shooed off grinding spots a couple of times in pretty rude ways (if you're wearing a ghillie suit, chances are I might not notice you until I bump into you, I'm very sorry, lol. Because if I do see you, I'll turn around before I'm even near you because I have no desire to get my ass kicked all the way to China), but I always just leave and people continue what they were doing. I've never had someone kill me to steal my spot, or to defend their spot, and I've only had someone kill me for no reason at all once. I was driving my wagon towards Heidel and someone decided to be an asshole. But that's in months and months of time. I guess I'm just in the right places (although farming at Sausans hasn't really been a problem either, I just keep to myself in a quiet corner and no one feels the need to get pissed at me, apparently) or on the right channel or something.

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yup 50 is the start of pvp once you done the quest...took them a long while to sort that out...so those that do not want to pvp stay under 49.

Why should someone who just wants to PVE be restricted to having to stay under lvl 49 and therefore not be able to enjoy any of the new content?  Sure, stay under lvl 50 and you can't be attacked, but you also can't effectively go out to Valencia and explore, enjoy your awakening, nor would you be able to enjoy future content - the suggestion is simply ridiculous (and this is not the first time it's been mentioned in this thread)......

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Why should someone who just wants to PVE be restricted to having to stay under lvl 49 and therefore not be able to enjoy any of the new content?  

Thing is, if you wanted to do life skills, etc. There would be no need to go over level cap. People assume that because you say "PvE" it automatically means life skilling, which while I'm sure is the case for some people, it's not always the case.

I don't mind the PvP. I've been killed in every PK encounter I've had. From one vs one to being jumped by 5 people while I'm just trying to grind. Oh well. That's the game.

I never took it personally. I think that's the problem here. If it does fall under harassment, you can and should report it. Get evidence and build a case. Otherwise, get over it. it's a very minor inconvenience.

Your second point the own way you will get players who are capped out to move to valencia is to have dimishing retruns in the other zones and this is also a path that the devs/puds choose not to wallk.

but didn't they buff the mobs in KR??

 

But yeah, I never saw the big deal about letting PvE and PvP be together, unless it's harassment which is reportable and bannable. Yeah, it sucks to be PKed every once in a while. But honestly, if you let something small like that that doesn't dock you or punish you in any way ruin your game experience, imo you should just toughen up a bit. Sounds harsh, but it really is what I think.

Edited by Teacow
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@Teacow I do not know about KR  mobs getting scaled up I just play in NA .

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Played KR for 10 months before NA launch, got ganked 1 time, by someone else from NA. Koreans don't seem to get their jollies from "roflstomping" people with less gear. NA's sadism level from borderline Columbine man children is through the roof. OWPVP in thus game has never felt as fun or rewarding as AA's. BDO is a single player game where people constantly get in the way of what you're trying to do.

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