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pvp BDO needs a PVP overhaul


57 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

So I had a break from BDO for 3 months. The reason I left was because I didnt enjoy the endless grind and as a PVP focused player, i didnt enjoy the PVP.

Don't get me wrong I love the Guild and Siege War system, but the open world PVP in this game is absolutely terrible.

The Karma Dilemma

As you probably know, if you activate your PVP first and kill someone, it drops your karma. When you reach negative karma and get killed, you possibly loose enchantments on your gear.

So what happens if you and your group want to take someones grind/farm spot? Well, if you actiave your PVP first and kill them, youll loose karma. The other group will probably come back and if you want to keep the spot, youll probably kill them again, until you own group ends up with negative karma. This will force your group to leave the spot tho, because you dont want to risk dying and loosing enchantments.

All this applies the other way around aswell, if you start stealing mobs in someones elses grind loop, and they attack you, theyll loose karma too until the same happens to them and theyll have to leave.

So the only way to effectivley take someones spot is keeping to steal mobs in their rotation, and whoever is pissed off first, will leave.

Actually defending your spot will penalize you which ends up beeing a pretty crappy dynamic, its grief2win.

My solution to this would either be to remove the karma system or drastically decrease the karma dropping or maybe someone can come up with a decent alternative.

Missing Stats To Show Off

Every PVP focused player would like to show that theyre PVPing a lot or how others would say, show off their e-P****.

And I think this is very necessary. Being able to see if someone is a PVPer would add different types of depth to the game. It could be used for roleplaying, change the player dynamics and relationships, as well as just beeing a show-off thing. The game does attract a lot of PVPers because of its great combat, and they should be pleased. Not everyone shares this competitive mindset, but if youre a PVPer, you definitely do.

My solution to this are the following options:

- A leaderboard with various stats including Kills, Deaths, K/D ratio, which classes have been killed, what the level difference was

- Additional PVP titles which can be unlocked by killing X amount of players, killing X amount of high level players, killing X amount of Y class. Or some freaky stuff like killing

- Something like Honour Points, or any other type of Points to get from kills; more for high level player kills.

- Different colored names for different tiers of Honour Points

- Different badges, displayed next to the name for different tiers of honour points

PVP Is Too Gear Dependent

I am not too sure about this aspect, because getting destroyed by fully geared players is an inscentive for me to get better gear, but most PVPers will see this as an issue.

Solution: Many skills have decreased stats in PVP, this can also be applied to Gear or even this way: If X skill is used with Y gear part equipped, damage = Z

My personal opinion would be to still keep gear quite relevant, since i love to improve on my gear over a long time in pvp, but it could be more balanced.

Apart from that, balancing classes should be done too,... at one point.

Conclusion

So there will be a couple of players who will say they dont want to encourage more pvp, which is fine. All those things I stated above could be bound to seperate channels (e.g. PVP Channels, PVE Channels, PVPVE Channels)

People love to bash guys like me for wanting to have more ways to show off pvp things, but if youre coming from from an eSports background or just a general competitive background, then its a must have for you. As I said, you guys can have your channels as they are now, but please give us competition focused players some own channels to use for PVP stuff.

Why is BDO a good game for PVP and PK?

If you've watched some YouTubers reviews on BDO, you must have noticed that everyone is complimenting BDO's fantastic combat, which is ture indeed. And because it is so beautiful, it draws a lot of PVP minded players to the game, who are disappointed by the open world PVP system.

It's a huge missed opportunity.

And please, stop bashing us competitive players for this, I'm sure theres a way to seperate us using different channels.

Edited by Xelfer
added a ton of details
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Posted

What this games needs is a skill based PvP, not this gear driven abomination.

What you ask for is actualy a virtual measuring tape to compare the size of your virtual d...., because BDOs "open world pvp" is nothing but a PK feast.

BDO fell into the first trap of any RPG: who creates the post powerfull effect wins.

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BDO gives us open world PVP, but its useless.

Please give us some sort of stats or leaderboard for killing players, or titles, or honour points, something others can see when passing by!

Maybe a badge next to your name or literally anything noticable. Maybe a decent bounty system.

The karma also drops way too fast, it could even be removed in my opinion, theres literally no point in beeing a strong pvper in open world, it all comes down to guild stuff, but im sure many palyers would like to just do open world pvp.

You know, BDO is not a PK MMO......

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What this games needs is a skill based PvP, not this gear driven abomination.

I think it is okay to be slightly gear driven (which it isnt, its almost fully gear driven) because it gives players like me an incentive to work for better gear and i like that, even if i get rekt by fully geared players. Some gear could have a PVP reduction for example, just like some skills do.

What you ask for is actualy a virtual measuring tape to compare the size of your virtual d....

Yes damn right! I want to compare the size of my d*** and i think its very necessary for a game which offers pvp in general, it adds depth in terms of fun, player dynamics and RP.

BDOs "open world pvp" is nothing but a PK feast.

I absolutely disagree, most of the times i could get into a pvp situation with someone it just wont happen because the one to attack the other person first will eventually drop karma. So you cant really defend a grindspot, it just leads to griefing and whoever is pissed off first leaves the spot. You want to take someones spot? Well just get your group to steal the mobs for 20 minutes and theyll leave. If they dont leave theyll kill you repeatedly until they are negative karma, which ultimately makes them leave aswell because they dont wanna drop enchantments. What a great pvp dynamic....

In the end i only want stats to show my internet d***, for a person who mainly cares about pvp, its a must have. They could even seperate pvp and pve or pve/vp channels, i dont really care, but please dont make pvp matter outside of node and guildwars.

You know, BDO is not a PK MMO......

 But it offers super solid combat, the best ive ever seen in any mmo, so it would be a huge missed chance to not make it a pk/pvp game, at least in seperate channels.

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Posted

BDO gives us open world PVP, but its useless.

Please give us some sort of stats or leaderboard for killing players, or titles, or honour points, something others can see when passing by!

Maybe a badge next to your name or literally anything noticable. Maybe a decent bounty system.

Then there is the karma problem.... The karma drops way too fast, it could even be removed in my opinion, theres literally no point in beeing a strong pvper in open world, it always ends up beeing karma bashing, with no proper outcome. Whos pissed off first leaves. With this open world pvp in game right now there could aswell just be no pvp at all, which is a shame since bdos combat is insanely good.

Karma system is great, it stops Bullying PVP'ers bullying lower grade players out of spots because they ridiculously think they own the spot, they don't the spot belongs to no one and thus should be shared. I would go as far as PVP'ers are only allowed to PK players that are equally or near enough their own gear level, that will stop cowardly PVP'ers who prey on the weak and wont go pick a fight with someone stronger or equal to them. 

  1 hour ago, Valtaya said:

What you ask for is actualy a virtual measuring tape to compare the size of your virtual d....

so you want a system which says

" Looking at me! I'm Awesome! look how good at PVP I'am! everyone should tremble and bow in my presence because I have such a cool Label to say how awesome I am at PVP!"

One word for that..... SAD! if you need reinforcement, respect and people to fear you then go join the army! This is a game.... not a D*ck dangling competition.

 

 

 

 So you cant really defend a grindspot, it just leads to griefing and whoever is pissed off first leaves the spot. You want to take someones spot?

I love this comment, I love seeing it everytime some idiot thinks he OWNS a spot! LOL!

Get it into your head. YOU DON'T OWN THE GAME. YOU DON'T OWN THE MONSTERS, THE SPOT, THE SERVER OR ANYTHING ELSE FOR THAT MATTER. IT BELONGS TO EVERYONE!!

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Posted (edited)

so you want a system which says

" Looking at me! I'm Awesome! look how good at PVP I'am! everyone should tremble and bow in my presence because I have such a cool Label to say how awesome I am at PVP!"

One word for that..... SAD! if you need reinforcement, respect and people to fear you then go join the army! This is a game.... not a D*ck dangling competition.

I edited my main post and structured it, i hope everything is more clear now. Nobody owns the spot, but some players like the dynamic of fighting for it, its a competitive mindest not everyone shares.

Edited by Xelfer
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Im ok with Karma remove IF they add a true on/off PvP Switch.

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What this games needs is a skill based PvP, not this gear driven abomination.

What you ask for is actualy a virtual measuring tape to compare the size of your virtual d...., because BDOs "open world pvp" is nothing but a PK feast.

BDO fell into the first trap of any RPG: who creates the post powerfull effect wins.

The open world PvP is fine, but battlegrounds should completely ignore your gear.

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Im ok with Karma remove IF they add a true on/off PvP Switch.

I would go for this also, its unfair for people to be forced into a PVP situation they don't want to be in

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Posted

 

I would go for this also, its unfair for people to be forced into a PVP situation they don't want to be in

serperating channels would do the trick too, or am i missing something :D 

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serperating channels would do the trick too, or am i missing something :D 

Yes it would, but I wouldn't agree on being penalised just because I don't like PVPing like reduction in things in the PVE channel.

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My solution to this would either be to remove the karma system or drastically decrease the karma dropping.

 

Solution: Many skills have decreased stats in PVP, this can also be applied to Gear or even this way: If X skill is used with Y gear part equipped, damage = Z

My personal opinion would be to still keep gear quite relevant, since i love to improve on my gear over a long time in pvp, but it could be more balanced.

Conclusion

So there will be a couple of players who will say they dont want to encourage more pvp, which is fine. All those things I stated above could be bound to seperate channels (e.g. PVP Channels, PVE Channels, PVPVE Channels)

People love to bash guys like me for wanting to have more ways to show off pvp things, but if youre coming from from an eSports background or just a general competitive background, then its a must have for you. As I said, you guys can have your channels as they are now, but please give us competition focused players some own channels to use for PVP stuff.

Why is BDO a good game for PVP and PK?

If you've watched some YouTubers reviews on BDO, you must have noticed that everyone is complimenting BDO's fantastic combat, which is ture indeed. And because it is so beautiful, it draws a lot of PVP minded players to the game, who are disappointed by the open world PVP system.

It's a huge missed opportunity.

And please, stop bashing us competitive players for this, I'm sure theres a way to seperate us using different channels.

iight take out karma perfect. This way i can just bring a group kill whoever is doing main rotation of sausans from them, and if they retaliate then we can just kill them without losing karma perfect. Oh and all those guilds that avoid pvp because they are pve, i can just flag and kill them all no guild will be safe :D. Karma just too hard to balance. Oh and another cool one is if there's a world boss and u don't lose karma ;)...just think about it.

 

So this gear balancing... If i have like full reblath, i can stand on even, or just slightly lower, chance to beat someone with full boss gear? Who spent many hours to grind it? Sounds legit. Some people put in a lot of effort to get really good gear to do well in pvp. Just cause the low geared get smashed because they aren't willing to put as much time doesn't mean u should diminish the value of the effort geared players put in. Gear is tricky and really hard to balance. I would say it's impossible to balance in an open world pvp scenario. The only possibility would be instanced arena pvp.

 

 PVP channel would be nice, but it would also take a lot of the competition away... On pvp channels you just get pked constantly if you try to grind, and then if you try to go to PVE channel, then there may not be enough channels. Imagine on a weekend when so many people want to grind for the exp bonus and there were limited "PVE" channels where you wouldn't be able to pvp each other. Everyone would just be trying to outfarm the others since parties can only get so big...A lot of people would rage about this too.

 

I'm pretty sure this is why they created the desert. A place for competitive pvp players to just go red and not be scared of losing anything, except that u get sent to jail. You can try that for a while. Just go to the desert and just keep flag on for the whole time you are there. 

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Im ok with Karma remove IF they add a true on/off PvP Switch.

^^ pretty much this... because if you dont penalize the pkers hard enough, you will get that over leveled and over geared zerker running through sausans killing unawakened witches/wizards... >_> reaaaal manly and competitve... whoopie....

btw, i always wait for someone else to flag on me so i can kill them without penalty :) otherwise it is a grind race to see who can push the other person out of the loop... OR you can just switch channel... 36 channels btw

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iight take out karma perfect. This way i can just bring a group kill whoever is doing main rotation of sausans from them, and if they retaliate then we can just kill them without losing karma perfect. Oh and all those guilds that avoid pvp because they are pve, i can just flag and kill them all no guild will be safe :D. Karma just too hard to balance. Oh and another cool one is if there's a world boss and u don't lose karma ;)...just think about it.

I'm sure your being sarcastic here but i'm not sure... LOL!

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I'm sure your being sarcastic here but i'm not sure... LOL!

iight take out karma perfect. This way i can just bring a group kill whoever is doing main rotation of sausans from them, and if they retaliate then we can just kill them without losing karma perfect. Oh and all those guilds that avoid pvp because they are pve, i can just flag and kill them all no guild will be safe :D. ""Karma just too hard to balance"" (this one isn't sarcasm). Oh and another cool one is if there's a world boss and u don't lose karma ;)...just think about it. /s 

There we go

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^^ pretty much this... because if you dont penalize the pkers hard enough, you will get that over leveled and over geared zerker running through sausans killing unawakened witches/wizards... >_> reaaaal manly and competitve... whoopie....

btw, i always wait for someone else to flag on me so i can kill them without penalty :) otherwise it is a grind race to see who can push the other person out of the loop... OR you can just switch channel... 36 channels btw

I can relate to this, Wizard/Witch in my opinion only is the worse PVP class ever, it might be good in node wars but in open PVP its the worse, slow movement, casting takes too long, animation takes too long, easily stunned, knocked over and very weak armour wise... and no block so being a bit selfish here, turning off PVP would be a bonus.

iight take out karma perfect. This way i can just bring a group kill whoever is doing main rotation of sausans from them, and if they retaliate then we can just kill them without losing karma perfect. Oh and all those guilds that avoid pvp because they are pve, i can just flag and kill them all no guild will be safe :D. ""Karma just too hard to balance"" (this one isn't sarcasm). Oh and another cool one is if there's a world boss and u don't lose karma ;)...just think about it. /s 

There we go

oh good... glad I saw that :D

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I can relate to this, Wizard/Witch in my opinion only is the worse PVP class ever, it might be good in node wars but in open PVP its the worse, slow movement, casting takes too long, animation takes too long, easily stunned, knocked over and very weak armour wise... and no block so being a bit selfish here, turning off PVP would be a bonus.

see, if they can have lets say 26 pve channels and 10 pvp channels (no pvp pentalties at all), and ppl are free to access which ever one they want. new players and less geared people can grind without constant fear of being pushed out of grind spots. thrill seeking pvpers can go to the pk channels for challenge. this way, you can actually get some competitive fights instead of just deleting a low lvl player with one attack. Also, when the less geared players become more geared, they might want to get into pvping. then, they can hop into the pvp channels for some fun whenever they want to~

OR we can give lvl requirements for pking. say a 2 or 3 lvl difference cannot initiate a fight. so you wont have a lvl 60 person bullying a lvl 50.

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see, if they can have lets say 26 pve channels and 10 pvp channels (no pvp pentalties at all), and ppl are free to access which ever one they want. new players and less geared people can grind without constant fear of being pushed out of grind spots. thrill seeking pvpers can go to the pk channels for challenge. this way, you can actually get some competitive fights instead of just deleting a low lvl player with one attack. Also, when the less geared players become more geared, they might want to get into pvping. then, they can hop into the pvp channels for some fun whenever they want to~

OR we can give lvl requirements for pking. say a 2 or 3 lvl difference cannot initiate a fight. so you wont have a lvl 60 person bullying a lvl 50.

personally i would do it by the AP/DP level since player level doesn't really have a impact of ability. I would say in order to initiate PVP the target player would have to have a AP/DP +/- 5 near your AP/DP to make it some sort of a fair fight, otherwise PVP isn't possible

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personally i would do it by the AP/DP level since player level doesn't really have a impact of ability. I would say in order to initiate PVP the target player would have to have a AP/DP +/- 5 near your AP/DP to make it some sort of a fair fight, otherwise PVP isn't possible

for me personally, i think lvl is even more important than gear since when i try to fight someone just 2 levels above me, i constantly miss unless i stack on acc. (food acc doesnt affect pvp) but gs difference is good too... i would say maybe a combined 50 difference or something...

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for me personally, i think lvl is even more important than gear since when i try to fight someone just 2 levels above me, i constantly miss unless i stack on acc. (food acc doesnt affect pvp) but gs difference is good too... i would say maybe a combined 50 difference or something...

50 is a big gap, i still think 5 is better, or if I had to really negotiate maybe 15.

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50 is a big gap, i still think 5 is better, or if I had to really negotiate maybe 15.

i, myself, never had a problem fighting someone higher gear score than me. i am just afraid if you limit it too much it will take a bit of the fun and freedom out of it. but then again, funny thing about gear is that there isnt too much difference between 400 and 450 but a HUGE difference for 450 and 500 lol

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iight take out karma perfect. This way i can just bring a group kill whoever is doing main rotation of sausans from them, and if they retaliate then we can just kill them without losing karma perfect. Oh and all those guilds that avoid pvp because they are pve, i can just flag and kill them all no guild will be safe :D. Karma just too hard to balance. Oh and another cool one is if there's a world boss and u don't lose karma ;)...just think about it.

So, thats why i said channels should be seperated, PVEers can PVE and PVPers can PVP.

For bosses they could just add a general safezone, unless youre in a guildwar.

So this gear balancing... If i have like full reblath, i can stand on even, or just slightly lower, chance to beat someone with full boss gear? Who spent many hours to grind it? Sounds legit. Some people put in a lot of effort to get really good gear to do well in pvp. Just cause the low geared get smashed because they aren't willing to put as much time doesn't mean u should diminish the value of the effort geared players put in. Gear is tricky and really hard to balance. I would say it's impossible to balance in an open world pvp scenario. The only possibility would be instanced arena pvp.

If youve read my post I said the following:

getting destroyed by fully geared players is an inscentive for me to get better gear

and

 My personal opinion would be to still keep gear quite relevant

I just included it because many people whine about gear beeing too OP. I dont have an issue with that personally. I play a lot of CS GO and i play it because its 100% fair for everyone in the match, but when it comes to MMOs, i like the fact to spend time on getting good gear and i also like the fact that it gives me an advantage over others. It's unbalanced, but i like it. 

PVP channel would be nice, but it would also take a lot of the competition away... On pvp channels you just get pked constantly if you try to grind, and then if you try to go to PVE channel, then there may not be enough channels. Imagine on a weekend when so many people want to grind for the exp bonus and there were limited "PVE" channels where you wouldn't be able to pvp each other. Everyone would just be trying to outfarm the others since parties can only get so big...A lot of people would rage about this too.

Well, only good geared players will grind on PVP channels, and i would join those especially because i want to get into fights when doing other things. And Im sure its possible to have enough channels, there wont be more players because of that (or maybe slightly :>), they are only differently distributed. Im sure noone will rage if PVEers and PVPers are nicely seperated

I'm pretty sure this is why they created the desert. A place for competitive pvp players to just go red and not be scared of losing anything, except that u get sent to jail. You can try that for a while. Just go to the desert and just keep flag on for the whole time you are there. 

Good point, but the desert isnt really appealing visually, id like to have fights, in woods, in caves, on mountaintops, on boats, everywhere :)

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So, thats why i said channels should be seperated, PVEers can PVE and PVPers can PVP.

For bosses they could just add a general safezone, unless youre in a guildwar.

maybe make the 2&3 channels, except for the olvia channels, the default pvp channels. ppl can do pve on 4, 5, 6 channels and node war in the 1 channels. i think this will have plenty resources to go around and will fix alot of the "intentional" and "non- intentional" griefing and random pking issues.

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Totally agree that the PvP system needs to be overhauled.

As far as the PK system is concerned, maybe a system whereby someone who is killed twice within 15 minutes by the same person is forced to respawn in town, and is prohibited from entering the node where he was killed for 30 minutes. This would give the person who won the spot some time to recover their karma. While the times may need to be adjusted to prevent any exploitation thereof, I think this may be a step in the right direction.

I also think that node wars should be overhauled to encourage gear progression whilst also allowing for skill-based combat. One idea could be to introduce gear caps. For example: Tier 1 = 350 GS. Tier 2 = 400 GS. Tier 3 = 450 GS. Sieges = Unlimited. Such a system would encourage progression whilst also allowing for more balanced combat.

Thoughts?

 

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Totally agree that the PvP system needs to be overhauled.

As far as the PK system is concerned, maybe a system whereby someone who is killed twice within 15 minutes by the same person is forced to respawn in town, and is prohibited from entering the node where he was killed for 30 minutes. This would give the person who won the spot some time to recover their karma. While the times may need to be adjusted to prevent any exploitation thereof, I think this may be a step in the right direction.

I also think that node wars should be overhauled to encourage gear progression whilst also allowing for skill-based combat. One idea could be to introduce gear caps. For example: Tier 1 = 350 GS. Tier 2 = 400 GS. Tier 3 = 450 GS. Sieges = Unlimited. Such a system would encourage progression whilst also allowing for more balanced combat.

Thoughts?

 

Usually u don't have incredibly geared guilds going for the lower tier nodes so it shouldn't be a problem for node wars and stuff.

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