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Witch or Wizard after awakening?

69 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Are you kiddng? This is our time! Wizards finally get to be young and summon killer whirlpools out of thin air.

Witch is a dirty tramp with long spell casts and nothing particularly cool. I'm also mad at them for getting lightning because water/lightning would've been amazing and I love lightning spells.

Don't care though because young wizards! I've been waiting since the game launched for this.

If witch is a dirty tramp then wizards must be sexually confused to fondle those 2 balls 

Edited by BigBossInThePit
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Posted

If witch is a dirty tramp then wizards must be sexually confused to fondle those 2 balls 

but they're his balls, how does that make him confused?

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Posted

but they're his balls, how does that make him confused?

why would he tear off his own balls? Wizards are getting weirder and weirder 

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Posted

I aint a pro warrior player but watching that video made me feel better  about myself....at least I aint that bad......Thank you

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Posted (edited)

Witch cuz block.

Edited by DarkBever

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Posted

I didn't get it. Which one is more pAoE and which one frontal AoE? Because some comments here are conflicting :P

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Posted (edited)

Wizard will be significantly stronger than witches.

False

it's a fact. Even PA admitted this and significantly buffed witch's awakening to try to fix this. wizard is still stronger but it's less distorted now. A lot of Korean Witches were very upset with this too.

Half false.  Wizard got buffs since their awakening was released in KR too so I guess that means PA admitted they were stronger than witch?

Does this video look like wiz is significantly stronger than the witch?

Lets look at another.  Does this one look like wiz is significantly stronger than witch?

(multiple duels with witch in this vid and score witch 5 wins wiz 2 wins and one draw.)

 

As for the second part of your statement you will find when looking at pvp video that there are more high performing witch video than wiz video coming out whatever the reason may be.

You may be hard pressed to find awakening video of a wiz that is as effective as this witch.

But people will say he has 10 ap more than his competitors so how about this witch?

Don't underestimate the witch +%20 to all resist (includes grapple resist) that witches have and wiz don't.

Both classes are good but wiz is definitely not "significantly stronger than witches"

Unless you have footage that I have missed showing wiz dominance.

I was searching for information as to which one (Witch or Wizard) will be more worth it to play after awakening but couldn't really find any good information. Initially I went for Witch because honestly who wants to play as an old fart but if the awakening makes it more worth to play I wouldn't mind leveling a Wizard, especially since they will get a new younger face+body option so I could endure a couple of months as an old fart until then. I would very much appreciate any info regarding this, thank you!

OP if you already have a witch you will be fine in sticking with her.  You wont be getting more power for leveling up a wiz.  Also if your main concern is pve witch block will serve you very well there too.  On the other hand if you just like the looks of wiz abilities more than witch then go for it.

Also the comments made earlier in thread about witch ground poison being different than wiz version are incorrect as well.

Edited by Beld
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Posted

OP if you already have a witch you will be fine in sticking with her.  You wont be getting more power for leveling up a wiz.  Also if your main concern is pve witch block will serve you very well there too.  On the other hand if you just like the looks of wiz abilities more than witch then go for it.

Also the comments made earlier in thread about witch ground poison being different than wiz version are incorrect as well.

Well I am more for PvP then PvE but I still wan't to PvE...the only reason I asked which one worth it more after awakening is because I do not want to level both but at this point I am thinking on leveling both because you guys do not agree on anything really :P Someone says wizard is better and then someone says otherwise thus im not further then before I asked :S

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Posted

 

 

Also the comments made earlier in thread about witch ground poison being different than wiz version are incorrect as well.

Lava pool pulls attention of mobs?  Because I haven't seen one video of a pve wizard grind where that is the case.  In every witch video you can see that the poison pool draws their attention.

In the RU skill it also says that it draws attention whereas the lava pool does not.

So since you just walled everyone with "facts" im asking you back yours.

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Posted (edited)

Lava pool pulls attention of mobs?  Because I haven't seen one video of a pve wizard grind where that is the case.  In every witch video you can see that the poison pool draws their attention.
In the RU skill it also says that it draws attention whereas the lava pool does not.

So since you just walled everyone with "facts" im asking you back yours.

Certainly.

I hope your "facts" in quotes is not sarcastic.

2:40 second mark in the video you may notice a big mob in the back swinging away at lava ball.

 

Well I am more for PvP then PvE but I still wan't to PvE...the only reason I asked which one worth it more after awakening is because I do not want to level both but at this point I am thinking on leveling both because you guys do not agree on anything really :P Someone says wizard is better and then someone says otherwise thus im not further then before I asked :S

Well I hope I made a more weighted argument than those who simply said the opposite and provided nothing at all to back it up.

Still first hand experience is always the best way and whichever you choose will be able to do well.

Edited by Beld
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Posted

Well I am more for PvP then PvE but I still wan't to PvE...the only reason I asked which one worth it more after awakening is because I do not want to level both but at this point I am thinking on leveling both because you guys do not agree on anything really :P Someone says wizard is better and then someone says otherwise thus im not further then before I asked :S

I really doubt neither one is significantly better in PvE or PvP. PA seems more cautious with awakening balance these days, unlike with earlier awakenings lol.

Wizard does looks a hint better on paper for PvP, think everyone feels that way. They have that notorious water nuke, extra dash and a grab. Also these rumours going around about how wizard does more dmg. But it's just in theory and speculations. I have yet to see any proof, numbers or footage of how wizard does more dmg or how their awakening outperforms witch in PvP. No one has.

Than again, only like 1.5% of the Korean population plays wizard, so probably hard to find one for a PvP video :o

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Posted

I really doubt neither one is significantly better in PvE or PvP. PA seems more cautious with awakening balance these days, unlike with earlier awakenings lol.

Wizard does looks a hint better on paper for PvP, think everyone feels that way. They have that notorious water nuke, extra dash and a grab. Also these rumours going around about how wizard does more dmg. But it's just in theory and speculations. I have yet to see any proof, numbers or footage of how wizard does more dmg or how their awakening outperforms witch in PvP. No one has.

Than again, only like 1.5% of the Korean population plays wizard, so probably hard to find one for a PvP video :o

Wizards dont do more damage you can look at the skills on the RU site.  They are all pretty much identical.

Certainly.

I hope your "facts" in quotes is not sarcastic.

2:40 second mark in the video you may notice a big mob in the back swinging away at lava ball.

 

Well I hope I made a more weighted argument than those who simply said the opposite and provided nothing at all to back it up.

Still first hand experience is always the best way and whichever you choose will be able to do well.

How bout duration that pool seems really short?  But for some reason it doesn't seem as powerful.  When you see poison pool go down all the mobs run at it and stick to it.

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Posted

Well I hope I made a more weighted argument than those who simply said the opposite and provided nothing at all to back it up.

Still first hand experience is always the best way and whichever you choose will be able to do well.

Yes you did and I agree that first hand experience is always the best but that does mean that I would have to level both.

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Posted

sadly both will be overpowered and broken beyond anything anyone is currently expecting 

 

i hope they don't release their awakenings but we all know that won't happen, they did plague and ruin black desert once upon a time because mass pvp was unplayable thanks to this retarded class spamming infinite range infinite amount of CC with infinite amount of dmg while also being the tankiest class and then when awakenings came most of them finally started dodging pvp which was good and healthy for the game but soon they'll come back and spam even more toxic CC that blows up the entire screen 

 

Its just unfun and dumb design, why the hell do they have to hit everything without aiming while being safe while also being much tankier than most classes in bdo and while having the best cc in the game? Im still waiting for someone to justify that 

 

i know they're not out yet but i hope they get nerfed 

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Posted (edited)

Witch. 

Because reasons.

 

Witch - 201/304 58 lvl
Giant 200/303 60 lvl

Edited by Ellipsis
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Posted (edited)

i am sorry but this type of silly argumentation is so far fetched even Sasha Gray would go "i can't swallow that much in one session" -_-
what he is referring to is that KR devs had stated they knew that witches where significantly less powerfull than wizards and therefore needed some serious buffs.

but even without them stating it, it wouldn't take much brain to see which one would ROLFSTOMP the other in a 1v1. lets try to run through it:

 

witches got block as their PRO. which is instantly countered by Wizard Grab (and since it is hard rooting you, any block you do with be hit by a teleport engage then grabbed and BOOM major dmg or direct death).

wizards PRO:
Far faster casting of All mirror skills. any fight where both classes will try to do a fast CC/dmg skill, wizards will win the exchange.
wizards got 2 medium engagement CC skills which are half the cast speed of any CC skill witches gets, meaning anytime a witch tries to lay down CC the wizard can instantly engage and CC before the witch is done.
far higher mobility: can control the battlefield and engagements completely and can disengage fully to heal while always preventing the witch from disengaging fully.

 

there is ZERO chance on the paper that a witch will win vs. an equally skilled and geared wizard (both high skilled ofc. since when noobs are involved anything can happen while 1 player is trying to get unstuck from the window they got mystically stuck in ;) ).
unless ofc the witch does MASSIVE amount of more dmg, meaning that the damage exchanges of "poke dmg" will favor the witch so heavily that the wizard is FORCED to take bad/suboptimal engagements to avoid simply dying/"taking to much dmg" from "poke dmg". but i highly doubt that is the case at all ^^

 

BTW: when all that is said your first VID, the VERY first engage the wizard teleports into engage, doesn't grab and in a dmg exchange BLOWS straight throught the shield of the witch and KILLS her before he can die to the dmg he moronicly teleported into -_-
seriously that scene alone should show how hopelessly broken it is... its like teleporting straight into a 100% wiz/witch rage skill now, then blowing through the shield while ignoring the dps from the lightning, then straight up killing the wiz/witch through the shield faster than you yourself take dmg from the move (which several classes can do already and it is beyound retardedly badly made Balance...)..

 

haven't watched the rest yet (food just arrived :P )

only bad players or undergeared people had/have big issues with wiz/witches. equally skilled/geared players generally have no problems fighting wiz/witches, only in GvG are they an issue and only because other classes protect them like crazy, without that 1-2 good sorc/ninja/ranger/war/zerker/musa/mweaha/etc will destroy them in seconds -.-you need a minimum of 270-280DP and a heavy investment into HP to survive the first 3seconds without wasting protection field just to stay alive, yet alone be of any use without really good peel (which again is then other classes insuring your safety)

should tell you all...

 

that you believe your the best player in the world and that NO ONE should be able to win vs. your headroll/2-4 skill bottom press even if they outplay you insanely, shows how far freaking fetched you are -.-

let me guess warrior, ranger, zerk or sorc.. most powerfull classes and yet they whine that they can ever die -.-

1. can you link to source where  "KR devs had stated they knew that witches where significantly less powerfull than wizards"?

2. all that theory crafting but I put up footage that contradicts your claims.  Can you link some footage to support your argument that "ZERO chance on the paper that a witch will win vs. an equally skilled and geared wizard"?

Its really easy to just say oh that player is just not skilled enough that is why his class is superior but he lost and not put up any footage of your own.  We could watch one of the most skilled wiz that exists and you could just say the same thing so simply show so footage to demonstrate wiz superiority to witch?

Edited by Beld

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Posted

The warrior is so much better in the that video after he starts blocking...

Witch isn't going to be as OP as anyone thinks. 

It will be good though :D

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Posted

Im sorry but you have to be mentally handicapped to think that witch and wizard won't be op

 

their 3min buff alone is more op than half of the awakenings in the game and then they get as many superarmors and blocks as all other classes without any downsides and also keep their range and get even more CC ? 

 

Witch and wiz made this game toxic for months with how overpowered they are, then it shifted to sorcs and now it shifted to zerkers and rangers  and soon witch and wiz will be included 

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Posted (edited)

1: nope i am assuming he got it.

2: i just gave you the example which is proofed in the first 5 seconds of your FIRST video of how your vid shows the exact opposited of what your trying to say.

3: if you are a decent/good player and used to fighting the same its extremely easy to see when people (and yourself) makes mistakes and what they should have done instead.. using base teleport as engagement is generally a really bad idea as a witch/wiz since its your ONLY disengage and "ow shit GTFO" skill, using it to teleport in to burst into a skill with high dmg AND more importently frontal shield on it is directly retarded, you are by design taking the WORST dps trade you can, since you need to not only burst through their entire shield but are standing in heavy dmg while doing so. its a major mistake at the scale of "well might as well go make coffee, no way i should survive this ----- up" yet not only does the wizard survive, he burst through the entire shield, burst through the HP bar of the witch AND win without doing anything but headroll his abilities after he did the absolute worst move he could do (on the "balance paper")...
and you still try to defend it as being "balanced"? that's pretty much a joke.. especially because its designed with a GRAB to exactly circumvent the shielding, which it doesn't even need :P

not to mention that it looks like Wiz also got frontal shield on his engage skills (which means witch got what as a pro?.... a base shield it can hold, which is cool and all but sacrificing so much for it is harsh)

1. So you have no source for it.  It did not happen is likely why yet you state it emphatically as if it is a fact.

2. You have theory craft but you have no actual game play footage that demonstrates that as you say "ZERO chance on the paper that a witch will win vs. an equally skilled and geared wizard" yet you state that as emphatically as you stated "KR devs had stated they knew that witches where significantly less powerfull than wizards".

 

P.S. The footage you are talking about that isn't at the start of the first vid I linked but is at around 3:05 (vid is starting around this point due to bookmark) shows the wiz getting off the fire first > whirlpool spell > pbaoe fire spell > fire fist

with pets casting on each spell adding their damage to the mix while the witch appears to get off 2 abilities the earthquake where the pet slams down from the air and the rock slide channel spell where pet rolls.  The pet was casting on the other side of the player for the first spell so didnt get all its damage in (look closer you will see rock pet is behind the witch).

So you claim wiz is better class than witch because the wiz got off 4 spells with their pet casts to the witch 2 spells one of which the pet cast didnt do its damage........

P.P.S My point is that both classes are about equally viable when it comes to pvp but your point is that witch has "ZERO chance" against equally skilled and geared wiz.  I post videos showing witch / wiz dueling and both winning some and some video that show witch winning significantly more which I believe proves out my point.  I have yet to see video of one sided domination by wizard tho.

 

Edited by Beld
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Posted

After awakening, does a witch have some reasonable chances against some random guy who just want to kill the witch and snatch the grinding spot from her?

 

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I was searching for information as to which one (Witch or Wizard) will be more worth it to play after awakening but couldn't really find any good information. Initially I went for Witch because honestly who wants to play as an old fart but if the awakening makes it more worth to play I wouldn't mind leveling a Wizard, especially since they will get a new younger face+body option so I could endure a couple of months as an old fart until then. I would very much appreciate any info regarding this, thank you!

why would you endure months?  it's less than 2 weeks till young wizard drops no? or will Kakao screw us and not release that either? lol

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Posted (edited)

here is basic design:

if i got more movability i need lower dmg than you. why? because if i got more movability you can NEVER run from me i can ALWAYS run from you. so i cantrol that battlefield and my focus is to know when i lose the exchange, disengage/reset battle=restart and try again. if i succeed in my focus i will get a situation where i get the better exchange and since you Can't! disengage and reset the battle i automatically win at that point.
it is therefore up to me to not fck up and overextend thereby giving you a chance to get the kill before i can disengage/reset the battle.

that's pretty basic balance design.

 

now wizards got vastly more movability than the witch, so by basic balance design logic, in a straight up fair exchange the witch should win without question. the wizard would need to get that "good/perfect engagement" to get the win, and whenever he fails at doing that he needs to disengage.
i hope you are with me this far (else this discussion is going to be pointless).

 

now in the vid you see the wizard jumping into a dmg skill which got shielded, he didn't get the better engagement, he didn't outsmart outplay the witch and at this point its "both frontal shielded, both hammering away on the others shield" yet the wizard not only breaks the shield first, then get the CC bc shield is broken, then got enough dmg to 1 chain combo kill the witch.

this should have NEVER happened in a balanced setup. the balanced setup dictates "wizard -----ed up his engagement, witch reacted correctly by instantly turning and firing up a shield skill+dmg and now wizard will have to disengage+reset to try again OR continue pressuring by using the GRAB CC which is the COUNTER to the witch throwing up a shield".

 

point is exactly that: wizard got the tools to counter a shield, witch doesn't, therefore "shield+dmg vs. shield+dmg" should obviously be won by the character which doesn't have to tool to instantly break the opponents shield AND CC-burst combo him directly.
but it doesn't contrary we see that they are Very equally matched here its very much a dice throw+-, who's shield will break first (i bet you in a perfect engage+defence, the witch shield breaks first since wiz engage got FAR more burst then witch front shield skills.).

now as for mobility: this again says that wizard should lose any straight up engagement if he doesn't get the grab CC combo on his witch opponent, since he can simply fully disengage and re-engage if it misses, while the witch cannot chase him down and kill him if he decides to do so. while the other way around the wizard got a very easy time chasing down the witch and killing her should she decide to try and fully disengage.

now for Speed of skills: higher casting speed means lower overall dmg per second, this is because having the ability to make your skill hit and CC first is a MAJOR advantage, therefore the dmg is Always supposed to be lower. yet again we do not see this high difference shown here (which would mean jumping into a casttime dmg skill+frontal shield with an instant use skill should result in even faster loss of your own shield)..

 

when it all is put together you get:

higher movability.

faster skill cast.

more reliable CC setups.

roughly the same dmg output.

shielded on engagements.

ability to break shield and garantee CC+dmg combo when done.

vs.

ability to root yourself to hold a frontal shield before engagement(which you can't turn with, need to recast if you need to adjust its angle).

 

with all that i highly doubt there would be any doubt which class will rolfstomp the other if we are talking top players  which actually fully utilize the tools which is available :)

All you have is a lot of theory craft that has not come to be the true situation in actual game play we have seen.

"now in the vid you see the wizard jumping into a dmg skill which got shielded, he didn't get the better engagement, he didn't outsmart outplay the witch and at this point its "both frontal shielded, both hammering away on the others shield" yet the wizard not only breaks the shield first, then get the CC bc shield is broken, then got enough dmg to 1 chain combo kill the witch."

I see here you just ignored when I explained in my last post why that played out the way it did.  You are focusing on this one example as if it will save the whole argument and ignoring the other vid where the witch went 5 wins to 2 and even this one example you are trying to use falls apart too.

Witch got basically 1 and a half spell casts off(half because its pet didnt get to connect with its spell) wizard got 4 spell casts off(all his pet flow skills connected) wiz won.

I'll put it here again 

"The footage you are talking about that isn't at the start of the first vid I linked but is at around 3:05 (vid is starting around this point due to bookmark) shows the wiz getting off the fire first > whirlpool spell > pbaoe fire spell > fire fist

with pets casting on each spell adding their damage to the mix while the witch appears to get off 2 abilities the earthquake where the pet slams down from the air and the rock slide channel spell where pet rolls.  The pet was casting on the other side of the player for the first spell so didnt get all its damage in (look closer you will see rock pet is behind the witch)."

wizard got better engage because witch started his cast facing other direction and turned resulting in his pet casting where he originally started the cast and not getting its flow damage on the wizard.  The pet is casting its first spell behind the witch and not on top of the wizard where it would do a lot of damage."

 

Edit: let me break your one example you latched on to down further for you.

Witch got outplayed.

You say wiz teleported into witch damage but what actually happened is 

witch teleports first toward wiz and witch starts casting the earthquake spell where the rock comes from the air and slams the ground.

wiz counters this by teleporting behind witch right after witch teleported and started casting then wiz fire fists into witch back.  Witch has turned around so as to block some of this damage but his pet is still in its casting animation behind the witch and not doing any damage to the wizard.  This gave the wizard the advantage since his cast gets his pet damage in too.  Enough advantage to break shield first and get slight cc first and string together 4 skills where all his pet flows connect and witch only gets in half of 1 spell and one full spell where the rock rolls toward the wizard.

Go watch it again and slow it down and you will see.

 

Edited by Beld
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Posted

 

After awakening, does a witch have some reasonable chances against some random guy who just want to kill the witch and snatch the grinding spot from her?

 

 

the first video below, an awakened Giant (after getting killed a few times) doesn't want to be in mele range with a witch... a mele class (short range to mid range with one or two long range) doesn't want to be in mele range because the witch has close range high damaging skills now, think about that. They are also within 1-3AP/DP of each other during that fight.

At the bottom you can see afkalmighty trying out his witch, very shortly in you can see him using block in RBF against 2 or 3 attackers and getting away just fine... wiz can't do that... a grab in that situation wouldn't have saved him.

someone above talked about vastly more mobility for wiz... they have one more dash that i am aware of, believe it has a very small wind up as well... and if nothing else, one more ability isn't vastly more mobility... it's a limited use ability at best... unlike the double teleport that both classes get and use all the time.

 

 

Wizard showing off abilities for first few minutes followed by musa fight at around 6:30. although, this wiz is still learning and not a great representation of what the class can do... mainly what to expect on day one when people are still learning the awakening.

 

 

much better wiz

no idea what the gear difference is in the above videos though.

 

like all classes, if you severely out gear your opponent you will win, equal it's more skill... but anything around 200+ it can just be whoever gets the first hit/knockdown/etc. I prefer witch. I think they will both be good and can fend for themselves and not get pushed off a grinding spot. 

 

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Sage "hands goes up GTFO/IFRAME away" and wait 15sec, its NOT hard to do -_- you don't even have to be skilled enough to know if its sage or protection field since the correct reaction to both is The same (as a tamer).... you simply just don't know how to counter witch/wiz at all.

yea im sure in a 5v5 or 10v1 people can "gtfo /iframe away" when they see sage

 

also you can do sage tp meteor before people even have time to react because of how fast it is lmao. And i was talking about their awakened 3min buff

as for the "power/OP", you hunt people into the middle of 15people, then get locked down and die and then cry OP (the fact you even try to hunt into a minor Zerg Solo then cry OP on ANY class is a freaking joke, how much more power do you want before you feel you are Power carried enough?)....

i go in 15 people because i believe i have what it takes to take them on ,i cry a bout berserkers and about desync which are both retarded. Everyone is crying about berserkers right now because last patch made them uncounterable and they abuse the server by desyncing left and right and pressing uncounterable grabs from 10-20 meters and teleporting people in their hands cus of a)desync, b) that class's grab hitbox is 5 times bigger than any other class. You almost never see kunos and tamers and valks engage with grab because it desyncs for them and because the hitbox is much smaller yet zerks and rangers constantly abuse the server and their classes so thats a completely different issue.

I go in 15 people and expect to win because im using my superarmors and block properly, i want more power because my class is underpowered and shit and i can provide ACTUAL ARGUMENTS and you're actually lucky im not playing an op class. I can actually write facts down and show you that tamer is incredibly weak because the class has the least awakening skills with the least number damage with huge cooldowns while also being a melee and squishier than ranger and witch

..you got little clue how to fight a witch/wiz(unless you improved this but i doubt it), using full burst into protection field instead of simply disengage wait till dp buff is gone then re-engage. same with sage use, you simply ignore its been used and keep pressuring assuming that NOTHING a witch/wiz can do should be able to be a danger to you as long as you just run

ive never been bad at fighting witch,wiz, the hell are you even smoking? 

and you're again crying about 1v1s lmao

you're so used to being so Hardcarried by gear and script that you cannot understand how you would need to developed actual different beheaviour depending on what skill the opponent is using, and that you cannot understand that disengagement is a BIG part of being an extremely mobile and iframe heavy class.

yea you accusing me of being carried by gear or "script" when i had barely tri gear until few weeks ago and what script could i possibly have that presses buttons for me and knows what to press, are you insane? I mean this sentence alone just discredits everything you'll ever post, accusing me of using a script just goes to show what a pleb you are,lol

 

As i said: the only people who considered wiz/witch as OP is people who are either noticeable worse players than their opponents, or noticeable undergeared. (and we all know you've been overgeared compared to most for ages, so maybe the wiz/witches you are calling OP are simply just THAT much better than you are at the game ;) )

im really curious who you are in game

 

probably some feedl0rd thats perma dead yet you have the arrogance and ego to spew all this crap on the forum 

 

witch and wizard has always been op and always will be

 

 

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Posted

Why are us magic users fighting among each other when we should be rejoicing that every other class will go back to it's rightful place of sucking to us?

My brothers.
My sisters.
My Arcane Family.

It's not a matter of which gender or element is superior.
But a matter of the devastation we will exact with the power to be bestowed upon us on December 21st.

Never Forget every grab.
Never Forget every knock back out of your casting
Never Forget every bullshit thing that other pos arcane inferior class has done in this game.

It will all change when our time comes.

There will be no peace for those who are not a part of our cult.

We must all go forth and slaughter together, not apart.

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