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The sense of grind in bdo

101 posts in this topic

Posted

I agree that grind cap is way too high. 

I personally would like all gear to be capped to TRI and no further. [This still would take a very long time (ie. Tri basilisk, ogre ring, etc) but wouldn't escalate to no-life mode]

Afterwards, it should be grinding for aesthetics. Something like GW.
or maybe you want a different gear set depending on your role in node wars. 

This way, gear gap isn't huge and it becomes more of a skill based game. 
People then can actually practice teamwork and combat skills rather than grinding endlessly and having your gears do most of the heavy lifting. 

Long respawn time in node wars, so things like ambush would actually do stuff would be so good.
Instead of the current "attack there, rangers in the back and sorc on the flanks," 
The strategy element is near non-existent. The battle is pretty much decided by which side is more geared and has more number. 
The only strategy element is base placement which is also pretty iffy due to so much restrictions. I guess politics is also another, which is fine. 

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Posted (edited)

And btw. I have Liverto 17, not Yuria)

I agree that grind cap is way too high. 

I personally would like all gear to be capped to TRI and no further. [This still would take a very long time (ie. Tri basilisk, ogre ring, etc) but wouldn't escalate to no-life mode]

Afterwards, it should be grinding for aesthetics. Something like GW.
or maybe you want a different gear set depending on your role in node wars. 

This way, gear gap isn't huge and it becomes more of a skill based game. 
People then can actually practice teamwork and combat skills rather than grinding endlessly and having your gears do most of the heavy lifting. 

Long respawn time in node wars, so things like ambush would actually do stuff would be so good.
Instead of the current "attack there, rangers in the back and sorc on the flanks," 
The strategy element is near non-existent. The battle is pretty much decided by which side is more geared and has more number. 
The only strategy element is base placement which is also pretty iffy due to so much restrictions. I guess politics is also another, which is fine. 

If this game is hard for you, then play another one. As you said, Guild Wars suits you better, Go on, play GW. Dont ruin another good pvp game with a grind.There so many games where you literaly can get everything in a couple of days, weeks or a month. Play those games. Why people like you should ruin games like this?

Edited by Sinderlok

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Posted

Literaly every new member of my guild break 150-160 threshold in couple of weeks. You clearly dont know how to failstack.i have 156 right now. By the end of this or nex day i will reach 161 ap. On the weekend i 100% will have ~170 AP. With 150AP you can farm sausan and buy or enhance couple of Ring of Shadow after 3-5h

OK Mr "You clearly dont know how to failstack"

Get -----ed

With a cactus

And a catfish shoved down your throat

Actually, make that a piranha

I'm sick of you "you clearly dont know how to failstack" -----ing trolls

You're worse than karma bombers

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Posted

If you want to succeed in this game you need to have no life, it's simple. That won't change.

Quit your job and go to university and play all day and night and study 1 day for tests whilst living on loans / parent's money.

That is the key to success in this game.

If you sold all that salt you wouldn't have to work anymore bro. :D

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Posted

If you see the bait, avoid the trap.

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Posted (edited)

The fact is that BDO could actually stand with half the Grind it has now, it has so much content and potential that railing on grind to keep people online is an insult to itself and it's capacity to involve players in a living world, as any mmo should aim to do.

My point is not to remove grind, it's bdo, not gw2 we are talking about!
it's to make it less significant, and move the core of the game from grinding to socializing and fighting!

I remember those shiny armored white knight defending hardcore games against everything and every one, there're players telling "i know how to win at life, you don't" in every mmo forum out there and the games populated with those person always dies after 1-2 years lol
Ofc i'm not nostradamus, but bdo has a really nice body, ad it's only focusing on makeup (graphic) and growing it's tumor (grind core)

Edited by Mortivoro
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Posted

It's because people have no imagination. Remove the grind and they're like "Waaah! What should I do now?! Dere's no CONTENT!"

 

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Posted

The fact is that BDO could actually stand with half the Grind it has now, it has so much content and potential that railing on grind to keep people online is an insult to itself and it's capacity to involve players in a living world, as any mmo should aim to do.

My point is not to remove grind, it's bdo, not gw2 we are talking about!
it's to make it less significant, and move the core of the game from grinding to socializing and fighting!

I remember those shiny armored white knight defending hardcore games against everything and every one, there're players telling "i know how to win at life, you don't" in every mmo forum out there and the games populated with those person always dies after 1-2 years lol
Ofc i'm not nostradamus, but bdo has a really nice body, ad it's only focusing on makeup (graphic) and growing it's tumor (grind core)

Actually one of the core parts and in my opinion the one the game is built around is gear progression (end game per se) and its way of doing that is primarily through making gold which is achieved by grinding (and life skills but let's ignore them for now since its off topic). The game features a heavy RNG system of progressing through gear (first difficult enchant being TRI for arm/weap and Duo for accessories).

There are numerous threads expanding on that so I won't write an essay here, but I would suggest you if that part of the game is a major turn off for you, this game is not for you as you will have to "work on it" every single day you play the game. The game mechanics won't change, and they won't get easier. They will remain the same as the game is built around them.  The game has a baseline which at this point is duo gear and 57lvl. It is very easy to achieve and casual players usually are around that point.

On your other points node wars are 2 times a week and if you lose you can extend it to 3-4 times. There is also conquest on Saturdays which is one more bigger node war. Guild wars are usually for protecting grind location or grudges and they happen too often if you are in a big guild. Red battlefield is like you said meh.

If you hate grinding and gear progression but you still want to do play the game, I would look at life skills, this game has very deep mechanics on its professions. There are hardcore players which play almost exclusively on just life skills.

 

p.s this game is a marathon, it takes time to achieve things and you should pace yourself.

 

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Posted

bah .. grinding in this game is very low..

you can reach 56 ina  matter of days, even playing few hours per day

 

In may case , i work from 8 am to 7 pm .. i stay with my family and i can play from midnight to 1.30 am (every day) + weekend long nights...

BUT  i succeded in reaching good level (i'm 57.5 with sorc with average/good equip)

Obviously it is not something strong and remarkable in front of many other players .. but it is something with which you can afford to play quite every content in the game...

 

My personal problem is that PVP/node wars is concentrated in some hours that are impossible to play for a worker/family man ..

I dinner at 7pm .. i stay with my family and i play with my children at 8pm.. and i think there are a lot of other people that have the same problem i have...

KAkao should find a way to make the pvp content available in other situations (red battlefild is not a solution)

 

 

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Posted (edited)

To the OP, I like your thoughts here. Something that kept me engaged and consistently playing and having FUN in Archeage was how much pvp content there was and how easy, convenient and rewarding it was to engage in pvp in all forms. My biggest problem with BDO right now is that as a semi-hardcore player with a pvp focus I DON'T GET TO PVP VERY MUCH! (Other than Red Battle Field which is not very good content) The upcoming Ocean content update for BDO is opening up a massive water area with naval combat where you can PVP all you want without any artificial systems like the current BROKEN KARMA SYSTEM impairing you from having accessible pvp. This is what I feel the desert needs to be. NO KARMA OR PENALTY SYSTEM IN THE DESERT. The desert should feel dangerous and unregulated IMO. It would make sense in an immersive way and would allow players who are at the "endgame" grind to contest and compete for their grind.

So to sum up my point: Tone the grind back just a bit in making xp gains and drops a bit more available and make PVP more accessible. That way players in my shoes can grind a bit less and engage in FUN a bit more. Oblivious all my opinions. :)

Edited by Cascaden

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Posted

[ snip ]

I do totaly agree with you.

 

But you will most likely only have troll / bash answer with that "community" because way too many are blinded by the : "its long so its hard, so it mean something" while... when you are able to step back, you clearly see that this kind of setting bring absolutely nothing on the table, nor even a piece of interesting activity...  Even more since a monkey with enough time would achieve what thoses self proclaimed "top l33t mlg" players have in term of lvl & gear power.

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Posted

To the OP, I like your thoughts here. Something that kept me engaged and consistently playing and having FUN in Archeage was how much pvp content there was and how easy, convenient and rewarding it was to engage in pvp in all forms. My biggest problem with BDO right now is that as a semi-hardcore player with a pvp focus I DON'T GET TO PVP VERY MUCH! (Other than Red Battle Field which is not very good content) The upcoming Ocean content update for BDO is opening up a massive water area with naval combat where you can PVP all you want without any artificial systems like the current BROKEN KARMA SYSTEM impairing you from having accessible pvp. This is what I feel the desert needs to be. NO KARMA OR PENALTY SYSTEM IN THE DESERT. The desert should feel dangerous and unregulated IMO. It would make sense in an immersive way and would allow players who are at the "endgame" grind to contest and compete for their grind.

So to sum up my point: Tone the grind back just a bit in making xp gains and drops a bit more available and make PVP more accessible. That way players in my shoes can grind a bit less and engage in FUN a bit more. Oblivious all my opinions. :)

Why everyone so much afraid to lose karma? If you have negative karma you will not lose anything from pvp in desert. If you die in desert from mob you loose only gem and exp, like other players. You can loose enhanced only in pve when you are not in the desert. So whats wrong with you?

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Posted

I do totaly agree with you.

 

But you will most likely only have troll / bash answer with that "community" because way too many are blinded by the : "its long so its hard, so it mean something" while... when you are able to step back, you clearly see that this kind of setting bring absolutely nothing on the table, nor even a piece of interesting activity...  Even more since a monkey with enough time would achieve what thoses self proclaimed "top l33t mlg" players have in term of lvl & gear power.

You can only take an objective look at the whole situation if you stop playing for like 3 or more days.
When you are ingame your vision is blurred by all the graphics and combat effects that other games doesn't have and you force yourself to think this is the best option in the game market right now

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Posted (edited)

70% of you people saying you cant pvp because to pvp you need 190+ AP and because of that you cant be competent. 70% of you dont have 190+ AP. 40% of players dont even have 170+ AP. So you can pvp anytime with half of the server population and you still saying there only a grind? For the past 2 days i killed around 15 people at Sausan and Valencia Fogans and died mb 7 or 8 times. I even thought with 4 PK(red) players at once and win, solo. It was a realy fun moments between the grind. I have only 156/190 AP/DP. I went from 1% 57 lvl to 56% 57 lvl on last weekends. And it only took me around 9h. I started ~14 november and Im playing around 3-5h a day on the week. And 8-16h on the weekends. I dk where is yours problem people, but you can easy get 18 enhance on all of your gear and duo accesories. Stop wasting money on already enhanced gear. Enhance it yourself. Sometimes it can took more money then market price. But in 80% of cases it's cheaper than buying from the market. This game is not a sprint its a marathon. My guild have top players. 60, 61 lvl with 200+ AP. And you know what? When i started they had around 200-210 AP, 280-320 DP. And they still have this amount of AP and DP You can keep up with them already at 190+ AP. After 1 or 2 months.
Sorry for my English, not a native.

Sorry but you misteriously forgot to add what class do you play (so many details but miss the important ones... misterious)... If you wear a guillie, and if you scumbagged those poor bastards attacking by surprise while they had half life and 8 mobs on them... Can't laugh more about all that pile of crap you wrote... LULZ. This that i just wrote is the only PvP i find around. And sorry to tell you, this is not PvP is called Ganking.

Why everyone so much afraid to lose karma? If you have negative karma you will not lose anything from pvp in desert. If you die in desert from mob you loose only gem and exp, like other players. You can loose enhanced only in pve when you are not in the desert. So whats wrong with you?

Cause they want to scumbag non stop and karma does not allow.

Edited by crosspath

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Posted (edited)

Sorry but you misteriously forgot to add what class do you play... If you wear a guillie, and if you scumbagged those poor bastards attacking by surprise while they had half life and 8 mobs on them... Can't laugh more about all that pile of crap you wrote... LULZ. This that i just wrote is the only PvP i find around. And sorry to tell you, this is not PvP is called Ganking.

I dont have guillie. They killed me 2 times at fogans top spot. After second death they went to the vilage and i meet them there, below the mountain. 3 of them was PK (red as blood) and 1 werent. Valc, Witch, ninja and Musa. Clearly they were 56-57 with gear equal to mine or a little below. Only Witch was heavily undergeared. On open area its realy easy spread them out and kill one by one (Maehwa player here). I had problem only with Valc, our pvp was around 2-3min, her defence was insane. And btw, they had pots.

Edited by Sinderlok

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Posted (edited)

Everyone grinds pushed by the motivation of "what's on the other side of the tunnel" as you said.

(A) - Now everyone gets tired of grinding at some point, coz we are human not robot and eventually we get bored of doing the same thing over and over again. The thing is, not everyone gets tired of grinding at the same speed and depending on how close they got to "see the light". Now that's the first statement and i will suppose everyone agree on that.

(B) - PvP is a collective activity, whereas grinding you can do solo. PvP being a collective activity it's impacted directly by the population, much more than Grinding coz it's solo. The same rule we described in (A) applies to PvP, at some point we will get bored of it. That's the second statement.

Now when you take in consideration (A) and (B) there is one massive difference between PvP and Grinding. While some people will leave the game it won't affect as much the grinding population because grinding is solo, so it's less noticeable for them and the player base can renew constantly, some leave / some join.
As we said PvP has more social aspect to it, and is going to get impacted directly by people leaving for the following reason:

- People will lose their PvP partners / opponents, which will affect them more for PvP, when Grinding is a solo activity.

- While people are leaving they are not directly replaced in the PvP universe because it takes time to gear up (this is your point kinda). So a game purely based on this kind of system is going to die little by little.

Now the solution you are giving us would be to make it faster / easier to gear up , so that the player base stay constant in the PvP universe. Whereas this is truely going to work for a time, according to (A) we will still get bored at some point, and since we are more people on the same lifetime/experience-level in the game (coz it s easier to gear up everyone end up at the same point etc.); it's more likely that we see massive departure of players [coz (A) & (B)] that will be harder to fill in players/customer pool being limited too. This meaning dead game.

 

So in my opinion you are right to say that we need to take into consideration the accessibility of this game's feature to everyone, but the real problem is not the grinding system, it s the renewal of content. That's always the issue in all the MMO i have played. You wouldn't have to worry about renewing the player base that much in the first place if there was enough interesting new content to keep them entertained, and i m not talking about some lame update which will last 1-2 month.

But in the end we will always get back to (A) and people will leave, what matters is will the content be interesting enough so that more people join than leave

Nowaday people are harder to satisfy than before, and the lack of imagination to create interesting content, lean companies to the easy solution of creating extended lifetime with grinding and RNG coz it's more profitable for them. They prefer to create a new game every year adding +1 to the number behind the name and making it look fancy, even if we always get served the same things in the end.

I hoppe you read me coz we are tired of that to stay polite (At least i know i am)  
 

Edited by PanpanTheGreat

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Posted (edited)

I dont have guillie. They killed me 2 times at fogans top spot. After second death they went to the vilage and i meet them there, below the mountain. 3 of them was PK (red as blood) and 1 werent. Valc, Witch, ninja and Musa. Clearly they were 56-57 with gear equal to mine or a little below. Only Witch was heavily undergeared. On open area its realy easy spread them out and kill one by one (Maehwa player here). I had problem only with Valc, our pvp was around 2-3min, her defence was insane. And btw, they had pots.

So you found a group of pve players and killed them, sorry but i doubt that you can kill 4 people equally geared than you and that know what to do...

Go attack anyone from a strong guild and come back to tell me how stronk you are again... Lulz... You can't take a 20% life of a geared player, but ofc if you go around attacking guildless people and nonames you will definitely have a "Me very stronk" false impression. This game is gear game.

Normally gankers are geared, jusf fyi, cause they know they have an advantage and no retaliation is possible.

Edited by crosspath

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Posted (edited)

So you found a group of pve players and killed them? Go attack anyone from a strong guild and come back to tell me how stronk you are again... Lulz...

You are not reading, right? I said i found group of the red player. Player killers. This means they killed around 10+ guys, they killed me 2 times. And they engaged first. So, i cant kill them after that? You saying i cant punish red players? "Lulz"

Edited by Sinderlok

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Posted (edited)

bah .. grinding in this game is very low..

you can reach 56 ina  matter of days, even playing few hours per day

 

In may case , i work from 8 am to 7 pm .. i stay with my family and i can play from midnight to 1.30 am (every day) + weekend long nights...

BUT  i succeded in reaching good level (i'm 57.5 with sorc with average/good equip)

Obviously it is not something strong and remarkable in front of many other players .. but it is something with which you can afford to play quite every content in the game...

 

My personal problem is that PVP/node wars is concentrated in some hours that are impossible to play for a worker/family man ..

I dinner at 7pm .. i stay with my family and i play with my children at 8pm.. and i think there are a lot of other people that have the same problem i have...

KAkao should find a way to make the pvp content available in other situations (red battlefild is not a solution)

 

 

Oh hell no Homer! You are here to pay for the servers you buy custumes, artisan memory post some value packs on market and thats it.

No lifers can have all the fun munching of your (our) hard earned $$.

 

And our Korean overlords are baiting with "Look at him .... wouldn't be ncioe having all that gear ... you can have it too one day ..." when hard fact is that you will never ever have it :)

Edited by Atron

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Posted

Everyone grinds pushed by the motivation of "what's on the other side of the tunnel" as you said.

(A) - Now everyone gets tired of grinding at some point, coz we are human not robot and eventually we get bored of doing the same thing over and over again. The thing is, not everyone gets tired of grinding at the same speed and depending on how close they got to "see the light". Now that's the first statement and i will suppose everyone agree on that.

(B) - PvP is a collective activity, whereas grinding you can do solo. PvP being a collective activity it's impacted directly by the population, much more than Grinding coz it's solo. The same rule we described in (A) applies to PvP, at some point we will get bored of it. That's the second statement.

Now when you take in consideration (A) and (B) there is one massive difference between PvP and Grinding. While some people will leave the game it won't affect as much the grinding population because grinding is solo, so it's less noticeable for them and the player base can renew constantly, some leave / some join.
As we said PvP has more social aspect to it, and is going to get impacted directly by people leaving for the following reason:

- People will lose their PvP partners / opponents, which will affect them more for PvP, when Grinding is a solo activity.

- While people are leaving they are not directly replaced in the PvP universe because it takes time to gear up (this is your point kinda). So a game purely based on this kind of system is going to die little by little.

Now the solution you are giving us would be to make it faster / easier to gear up , so that the player base stay constant in the PvP universe. Whereas this is truely going to work for a time, according to (A) we will still get bored at some point, and since we are more people on the same lifetime/experience-level in the game (coz it s easier to gear up everyone end up at the same point etc.); it's more likely that we see massive departure of players [coz (A) & (B)] that will be harder to fill in players/customer pool being limited too. This meaning dead game.

 

So in my opinion you are right to say that we need to take into consideration the accessibility of this game's feature to everyone, but the real problem is not the grinding system, it s the renewal of content. That's always the issue in all the MMO i have played. You wouldn't have to worry about renewing the player base that much in the first place if there was enough interesting new content to keep them entertained, and i m not talking about some lame update which will last 1-2 month.

But in the end we will always get back to (A) and people will leave, what matters is will the content be interesting enough so that more people join than leave

Nowaday people are harder to satisfy than before, and the lack of imagination to create interesting content, lean companies to the easy solution of creating extended lifetime with grinding and RNG coz it's more profitable for them. They prefer to create a new game every year adding +1 to the number behind the name and making it look fancy, even if we always get served the same things in the end.

I hoppe you read me coz we are tired of that to stay polite (At least i know i am)  
 

THIS ^

Most of us are smart/experienced enough to understand how an mmo function and how people are entertained.
But most importantly, how a company WANTS to run that game - and let's face it, kakao / Daum repeatedly shown us they don't actually care of what we are discussing here

Anyway, it's more likely to see someone bored of grinding (for whatever reason) than someone bored of pvping

Why i say that? because PvP is a liquid content, it changes as people change, as classes changes and as the game evolve. while pve in bdo will always stay the same brainless shit, pvp has some truly potential hidden behind gear gap.
Games nowadays try to turn themselves into E-Sports to survive, even mmos like gw2 tried to do that with tournaments and prize (with little to no success) but the point is that developers are getting it, pvp is easier to develop, because players create it.

About population you are talking about - in bdo the loss of a geared players means much to the community because it will take months to replace him, the loss of an entire guild for a new game is like a stab in the stomach. and it will happen as soon as a new game comes out (like Lineage eterna, Revelation, Lost Ark.. and so on) because it happens in every game.
if i were Daum i would think a lot about this

You are not reading, right? I said i found group of the red player. Player killers. This means they killed around 10+ guys, they killed me 2 times. And they engaged first. So, i cant kill them after that? You saying i cant punish red players? "Lulz"

stop that, this is not the topic to talk about

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It's because people have no imagination. Remove the grind and they're like "Waaah! What should I do now?! Dere's no CONTENT!"

 

Out of likes, but I agree with this completely.

And if you do have ideas its like pulling teeth to get people to mess around in game and do them for fun. People only want to do what guides told them, farm sausages or pirates till they quit out of boredom. Even suggesting people try grinding in different areas to see what they are about is a taboo concept. Ugh.

Normally I want to blame Devs for ruining MMO, but really I'm seeing its the players.

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If you sold all that salt you wouldn't have to work anymore bro. :D

Jokes are apparently salt now

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Jokes are apparently salt now

Salt is the new umad bro.

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Posted (edited)

Out of likes, but I agree with this completely.

And if you do have ideas its like pulling teeth to get people to mess around in game and do them for fun. People only want to do what guides told them, farm sausages or pirates till they quit out of boredom. Even suggesting people try grinding in different areas to see what they are about is a taboo concept. Ugh.

Normally I want to blame Devs for ruining MMO, but really I'm seeing its the players.

Often times I find myself enjoying the game the most is when I'm doing "nothing", or at least nothing that would be considered "productive" by some standards, like exploring, sailing, running around and finding random players or whatever it is I feel like doing, but that's just me, been playing like that with almost everything else since I was a child. 

bill-cosby-memes-07-550x545.jpg

Edited by Beeso
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Often times I find myself enjoying the game the most is when I'm doing "nothing", or at least nothing that would be considered "productive" by some standards, like exploring, sailing, running around and finding random players or whatever it is I feel like doing, but that's just me, been playing like that with almost everything else since I was a child. 

Much approved ^_^. 

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