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Why PVE players need not worry about PVP for now

76 posts in this topic

Posted

So true. People keep supporting penalties in PVP in order to save griefers, but greifers will do their thing regardless. The penalties only serve to punish the average pvp'er, causing less owpvp to occur.

Can confirm.  Have alts.

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Posted (edited)

PK grieffers will have an alts to PK grief anyway.

You make an alt of same class as your main, you give him gear and grief away. When you wish to play normal, return gear to your main and do other stuff.

So the only thing reducing karma penalties would do is allow a non griefing players to PvP a bit more, which is a good thing.

The devs could make it so killing an unflagged player reduces the durability of your gear by 50 and some people would still do it. Short of disabling PvP there is hardly a penalty strong enough to entirely stop griefing. I'm willing to bet the majority won't bother to create an alt just to grief players, or run their main character's karma into the ground so the guards attack them. And that's the point of karma. Make it just inconvenient enough that most of the population ignores unflagged players.

Edited by Naturallog

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Posted

I'm willing to bet the majority won't bother to create an alt just to grief players

This level of naivete must be terribly painful. I heard there is a cure now, you might want to see your doctor ;)

Also, I'd be more than willing to help with the cure if you're playing on NA- just tell me your ign. B|

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Posted

This level of naivete must be terribly painful. I heard there is a cure now, you might want to see your doctor ;)

Also, I'd be more than willing to help with the cure if you're playing on NA- just tell me your ign. B|

No kidding.

The mere fact you can kill a handful of people, and still be able to deflag upto moderate levels of negative karma means that PKing will be quite common. Severe penalties don't even really kick in until purple/red. From what I understand from those who've played in Korea, there are tons of areas to grind. Shouldn't be too hard to keep your head down and avoid fights you can't win. But piss off the wrong guild, and you could get stalked and killed 5 times each by 10 different people. Past level 50 thats too much exp loss. You can't just let people kill you that often. You must fight or at least find the conditions where you can fight.

I think overall this is good. Conflict will breed rivalries. Rivalries will breed drama. Drama keeps the player base engaged.

 

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Posted

 

No kidding.

The mere fact you can kill a handful of people, and still be able to deflag upto moderate levels of negative karma means that PKing will be quite common. Severe penalties don't even really kick in until purple/red. From what I understand from those who've played in Korea, there are tons of areas to grind. Shouldn't be too hard to keep your head down and avoid fights you can't win. But piss off the wrong guild, and you could get stalked and killed 5 times each by 10 different people. Past level 50 thats too much exp loss. You can't just let people kill you that often. You must fight or at least find the conditions where you can fight.

I think overall this is good. Conflict will breed rivalries. Rivalries will breed drama. Drama keeps the player base engaged.

 

1st post and a winner :D

49000704.jpg

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Posted

Korean and Americans have different game play attitudes. And I am sure you will see that once the NA servers comes online.  Pking,  griefing,  guild stalking and lol giggles killing is pvp euphoria.  I am guessing no karma system will change that.  That's how pvpers roll in the west ever since UO.  

So I will play and see how it all pans out.  I am sure this game is way better if you play in groups rather than solo. 

Flag system will help solo play, it will be interesting to see if the introduce it to the western servers.

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Posted (edited)

Is there also something above the white Karma "title"?

Like blue for being a very nice player.

I'm thinking of the Karma System in Metin2, where you could rise up to being a Knight with a light blue "title" or on the opposite to drop down to a cruel "red titled" Player.

Edited by Dracoste
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Posted

Is there also something above the white Karma "title"?

Like blue for being a very nice player.

I'm thinking of the Karma System in Metin2, where you could rise up to being a Knight with a light blue "title" or on the opposite to drop down to a cruel "red titled" Player.

+1 you get blue points by helping out or avenging beaten players.

I mainly pve and would definitely like help from another player if I was getting ganked,  or griefed. 

And helping another player out, that was getting his butt kicked would be nice if the game recognised that.

 

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Posted

There is absolutely nothing broken with consentual PvP. The point is, everyone can enjoy the game just the way they like and if that is PvE well then so be it. If you want / need to be the griefing douchebag and prevent others from playing the game the way they like, then I feel like you might have much bigger psychological issues.

I could take some older MMO examples where consentual PvP has actually worked to the advantage of the title but I won't since all your intention is to grief others. Sad really...

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Posted

i think this is a tricky thing to fix because u can end up having to fight someone constantly which can be super annoying and can make it very hard to get stuff done to some people it seems like it doesnt matter and it should just be part of the game if ur fighting someone every 10mins but im sure when people r trying to level they will find it super annoying when they cant farm creeps because people r trying to kill them constantly for the giggles especially since they r lowering the cap for open pvp from 50 now we can end up having level 50+ camping spots to kill under leveled people 10 levels or more below them which will basically just be open ----- for everyone to watch sure its fun to shit all over someone when they cant do anything because of the difference in levels but its not fun for the low level kitty just trying to catch up to everyone and since the game is so big on economy fighting constantly or every 10 mins can even hurt that because people wont be able to get things done they wont be able to farm supplys they need for crafting or fish for cooking because they r to busy fighting off the server that is after them for the giggles so little money is made and little supplies are gathered to sell and level crafting skills so they can sell useful stuff for people to buy then the economy in the game ends up being not that great archeage system doesnt matter there wasnt even a reason to kill someone of ur race in that game unless it was for packs and even that game had 50s camping level 30 zones hiding to kill the low level people for the giggles sorry not kill them i mean ----- cuz thats what it was the 2 countries was the big part for open pvp in that game we dont have that we have guilds and then just normal people but currently there is no reason to randomly kill someone in bdo other than the giggles unless they have tradepacks if they can be drop i hear they can and cant so idk or cuz a bunch of people r farming a spot and u need to make room but there is also the chance that after u kill them they just come right back to fight it keeps going back and forth until one side get tiered of fighting constantly its also a problem for the karma system cuz if u kill someone for a spot nothing is stopping them form coming back and if u keep killing them u will just end up loseing all ur karma but it is a hard system to fix idk if my points even explain this well at all in anyway and if it doesnt sorry u read the whole thing.

That entire thing is one big sentence man. Periods, we need periods! 

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Posted

PK grieffers will have an alts to PK grief anyway.

You make an alt of same class as your main, you give him gear and grief away. When you wish to play normal, return gear to your main and do other stuff.

So the only thing reducing karma penalties would do is allow a non griefing players to PvP a bit more, which is a good thing.

Sounds like Daum should change it so that karma penalties are account-wide. :)

It is really hard to say what sort of system is required until the community hits level 50+ and we see how things are. If no one can use any other features of the game because the world is an EVE Online gankfest then the penalty system will need to be more severe. If OWPvP is for "legitimate" reasons then it can stay as it is or be relaxed.

For now I'm trusting the devs when they said that when PvP happens they want it to be for a reason, not mindless ganking. It's just one more thing to trust them on like the game not going pay to win but so far I like what they said about it in the dev blogs post CBT1.

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Posted

Question: What happens if a player attacks you and then you defend youself and ofc kill the attacker, will you get bad karma? 

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Posted (edited)

This level of naivete must be terribly painful. I heard there is a cure now, you might want to see your doctor ;)

Also, I'd be more than willing to help with the cure if you're playing on NA- just tell me your ign. B|

I'm not naive at all. I just know MMO audiences. People talk tough on the forums but when it comes down to it most aren't willing to actually have their main's karma stay red. Make an alt just for griefing? I'm sure people will do it, but actually gearing it up then spending significant amounts of time ganking? Nah, for most people it'll be a diversion for a few minutes or an hour, then back to playing their main.

I've played on PvP servers, and even with no restrictions on combat (everyone is flagged all the time) it was more common for people to just ignore each other. Then they get killed twice trying to grind mobs and talk about how hardcore their OWPvP is.

EDIT: Oh and half the PvP crowd will get bored after ~6 months and leave for the next shiny game that comes out, claiming BDO is imbalanced, pay to win, and/or all gear no skill.

Edited by Naturallog
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Posted (edited)

Since knowledge is shared between characters it would be nice if Karma was too.

 

Also I wish they would announce what pvp level is. I can live with being 49 forever but if it's low I'm getting a refund because reading these forums has shown me there are far too many jerks looking to grief to get anything done.

Edited by ShadowCat

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Posted (edited)

So true. People keep supporting penalties in PVP in order to save griefers, but greifers will do their thing regardless. The penalties only serve to punish the average pvp'er, causing less owpvp to occur.

The thing is, PvPers aren't static NPCs; we actually respond to the game and find ways to make it work even as it changes.  Rest assured, if there's a way to get around penalties without violating ToS, we'll find it and we'll do it.

Since knowledge is shared between characters it would be nice if Karma was too.

 

Also I wish they would announce what pvp level is. I can live with being 49 forever but if it's low I'm getting a refund because reading these forums has shown me there are far too many jerks looking to grief to get anything done.

You might just want to quit right now.  

I'm not naive at all. I just know MMO audiences. People talk tough on the forums but when it comes down to it most aren't willing to actually have their main's karma stay red. Make an alt just for griefing? I'm sure people will do it, but actually gearing it up then spending significant amounts of time ganking? Nah, for most people it'll be a diversion for a few minutes or an hour, then back to playing their main.

I've played on PvP servers, and even with no restrictions on combat (everyone is flagged all the time) it was more common for people to just ignore each other. Then they get killed twice trying to grind mobs and talk about how hardcore their OWPvP is.

EDIT: Oh and half the PvP crowd will get bored after ~6 months and leave for the next shiny game that comes out, claiming BDO is imbalanced, pay to win, and/or all gear no skill.

The thing is, you don't have to even really level up; you can just swap out really good equipment and since the game is equipment based, it's a viable tactic.  You're right in that PvP servers aren't just FFA killfests all the time, especially since that isn't a sustainable way to play.  Unfortunately for the carebear crowd, we don't leave if the game doesn't completely make PvP unplayable.  If the sandbox is real, we're here to stay.  If it goes themepark, we'll probably leave.

Is there also something above the white Karma "title"?

Like blue for being a very nice player.

I'm thinking of the Karma System in Metin2, where you could rise up to being a Knight with a light blue "title" or on the opposite to drop down to a cruel "red titled" Player.

You don't deserve to be rewarded for being a nancy who never fights anyone. The high reward/no risk PvE activties you do are already more than you deserve.  Generally it's reward = risk.

Edited by Mylia

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Posted

Personally I think the karma system is right where it should be. It allows players to attack others if they *really* want to - but ensures that griefing or otherwise disruptive behavior from players cannot be perpetrated repeatedly without severe consequences. That is how it should be.

If you wish to pvp without consequence then you flag up or go to a no-consequence pvp zone and have at each other until your eyes bleed.

This system allows PVE'ers to be fairly well protected from an aspect of the game they may have no interest in - and it allows PVP'ers to break that protection for a limited time. Both sides basically get what they're looking for.

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Posted

There is a limit to how many characters you make. So spending more money for characters slots will do nothing. Why make the progress to 45 and then have to do it over again cause you screwed yourself over on your previous one? That just sounds dumb. Karma penalties will eliminate PK griefers. -60000 for killing a positive karma player. Now imagine reach the max negative karma of 1mil. Good luck getting back to white player status. Guards will attack you and you will forever be a bounty without the chance of regaining white status.

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Posted

-3000 for attacking and then another -60000 for killing. 

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Posted

There is a limit to how many characters you make. So spending more money for characters slots will do nothing. Why make the progress to 45 and then have to do it over again cause you screwed yourself over on your previous one? That just sounds dumb. Karma penalties will eliminate PK griefers. -60000 for killing a positive karma player. Now imagine reach the max negative karma of 1mil. Good luck getting back to white player status. Guards will attack you and you will forever be a bounty without the chance of regaining white status.

It is still your choice to PK. You are not forced to reach max negative karma. You can just flag up and attack flagged people and you will never get karma.

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Posted

It doesn't work like that. Your family name is tied to your karma I believe. The "penalty" system isn't that severe at least not to me, but then again I'm used to games where you literally lose everything when you die. 

interesting. So you're saying if I go outlaw in one character, my other characters will suffer as well? Personally I'd rather have gear drop than have to be an outlaw.

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Posted

PvE players need not worry about PvE, either, because there isn't any. And without any real PvP or PvE, they can quickly not worry about anyone playing the game. So, good deal.

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Posted

It is still your choice to PK. You are not forced to reach max negative karma. You can just flag up and attack flagged people and you will never get karma.

There is no flag system in OwPVP

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Posted

There is no flag system in OwPVP

Then what does Alt + C do?

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Posted

That redirects you to pornhub

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Posted (edited)

 

No kidding.

The mere fact you can kill a handful of people, and still be able to deflag upto moderate levels of negative karma means that PKing will be quite common. Severe penalties don't even really kick in until purple/red. From what I understand from those who've played in Korea, there are tons of areas to grind. Shouldn't be too hard to keep your head down and avoid fights you can't win. But piss off the wrong guild, and you could get stalked and killed 5 times each by 10 different people. Past level 50 thats too much exp loss. You can't just let people kill you that often. You must fight or at least find the conditions where you can fight.

I think overall this is good. Conflict will breed rivalries. Rivalries will breed drama. Drama keeps the player base engaged.

 

Conflict can breed rivalries with pvpers specifically but with pve'ers it drives them away unless they really like the environment, in which case it creates drama.

Rivalies breed drama between pvpers but with pve'ers it creates the kind of drama that costs money and does not earn money by driving down sales and creating an environment that favors grief and drives new blood away.

Drama does not necessarily keep the player base engaged. If someone is being grief-ed, it drives them away from the environment or worse creates a sense of entitlement and injustice in their mind.

Edited by Accord

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