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So, this game is p2w?


187 posts in this topic

Posted

They added rng boxes in Aion that give best in slot gear, without mention that the ONLY WAY to get "Pen" accessories in that game is by swapping your credit card in the cash shop... and there are still people who complains about BDO being the most "p2w" game of the history LOL.

 

 

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Posted

They added rng boxes in Aion that give best in slot gear, without mention that the ONLY WAY to get "Pen" accessories in that game is by swapping your credit card in the cash shop... and there are still people who complains about BDO being the most "p2w" game of the history LOL.

 

 

isn't the game f2f for a few years now and being launched for more than 6 years? 

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Posted

They only now did that with AION? They had that in TERA for like years now, git gud AION.

On a more serious note, the only thing which is clearly P2W in this game are horses. It's extremely unlikely you'll get a horse with 18+ skills without spending pearls. Premium horse appearance change coupon, on the other hand, gives you 30% chance to learn a new horse skill when used, so in theory you can just spam that to get a horse that people who don't buy pearls will never get.

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Well in BDO you can buy stuff for cash ... inventory, storage, custumes etc. but will you win by doing this? No you won't.

You have storage maids you will grind faster ... a bit, with clever use of over stacking you can achive almost same effect.

You have bigger inventory/weight increase you will grind for longer -- > wagons / horses overstackign same effect.

Horses ... well thats arguably P2W in a sence of YOU having a nice horse. Spending money on crap T8 to get good skills and then selling it ... i think with money spent you could buy a small appartment in real life.

What else? Custumes ... 10% exp is meh.

Faster processing ... again ... its not THAT noticable, coocking same (my opinion).

 

BDO has lots of things in cash shop that can save you the hassle but bottom line i think its quite nicely balanced beteen what you can buy and how much advantage it gives.

Also there is a nice cap how many items you can sell for silver per week.

 

Only thing i consider P2W is artisan memory ... but then again RNG can kill you so you can buy 300 of them and still blow everything on freaking TRI attempts.

 

It will be hard to find a game nowadays that doesnt have cash shop.

 

 

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Posted

P2W is outdated term  this game is  RNG to win :D

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Posted

Aion had boxes that gave BIS extendable weapons years ago. A guy spent 2 000€ on them, got only 4 weapons, none of them the right one for his gladiator.

Ofc it was just an "event" so gotta burn all u monayz real fast!!

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Posted

BDO absolutely has P2W in it.  Anyone arguing that it's not is being pretty silly.  It's just a matter of how much it bothers you or not.  It bothers me for sure, but not enough to quit over it.

And sure, there are far worse offenders out there.  So what?

Regardless of there being games with far worse P2W, it's definitely given BDO a bad reputation and the damage is done.  Especially the way the publisher handled it, saying it wouldn't be P2W at launch, and then reneging on that word mere months later.  Some youtuber put out a video of the top 5 MMO failures of 2016, and BDO was in that list due to it's P2W fiasco.  Of course the comments filled up with BDO players saying otherwise, and who cares about some random youtuber right?  But the point is that this is people's impression of the game. There are some streamers I chat with, and when they ask me what I'm playing, and I say "BDO," they always follow up with "Isn't that game like totally P2W?"  

 

 

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Posted

Who cares about that stupid game? :P

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Posted

BDO absolutely has P2W in it.  Anyone arguing that it's not is being pretty silly.  It's just a matter of how much it bothers you or not.  It bothers me for sure, but not enough to quit over it.

And sure, there are far worse offenders out there.  So what?

Regardless of there being games with far worse P2W, it's definitely given BDO a bad reputation and the damage is done.  Especially the way the publisher handled it, saying it wouldn't be P2W at launch, and then reneging on that word mere months later.  Some youtuber put out a video of the top 5 MMO failures of 2016, and BDO was in that list due to it's P2W fiasco.  Of course the comments filled up with BDO players saying otherwise, and who cares about some random youtuber right?  But the point is that this is people's impression of the game. There are some streamers I chat with, and when they ask me what I'm playing, and I say "BDO," they always follow up with "Isn't that game like totally P2W?"  

 

 

at least there is admitance now, the argument is it p2w is kinda gone and the next one is .. "but it is not that much p2w look at this mobile game!"

Which is far better I believe and I think you are absolutely right ofc there are p2w elements that combined saves you tons and tons of hours and silver with artisan memory being the prime example, but same as you it is not enough to drive me away. 

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Posted

Bad topic. 

There were plenty of titles that were true p2w that invented tbh long before Aion.

And seriously who gives a scrap about Aion? Sounds more like an excuse to draw attention to their "new features".

If not BDO, then Off Topic 

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Posted

BDO absolutely has P2W in it.  Anyone arguing that it's not is being pretty silly.

It's always best to start your "argument" by insulting anyone who disagrees with you. :) 

the damage is done.  

In what form? Q3 still made Kakao just under $25 million and we don't have any figures for population so no one can comment on whether the game is dead, dying or growing. 

Especially the way the publisher handled it, saying it wouldn't be P2W at launch, and then reneging on that word mere months later. 

They didn't lie or go back on their word though. They said the game would not be P2W and lo and behold it's still not. Where are the people who were crying that selling dyes would break the economy? Where are the people who were cyring about costumes making the game P2W? Where are the people claiming that costumes would rise in price? 

Some youtuber put out a video of the top 5 MMO failures of 2016, and BDO was in that list due to it's P2W fiasco.  

HOLD THE BLOODY PHONE! A YOUTUBER put up a video? OH MY BLOOD ********* ************* ********** GOD! You do understand that YouTube has millions of videos, right? For every YouTuber that puts up  a negative video about BDO there's another one who has put up a positive one. If you're going to let a random YouTuber decide your opinion for you then you might as well quit the forums, the game and the internet. :) 

this is people's impression of the game. 

No, the is the impression of ONE person, if there were multiple people disagreeing with him in the comments then surely that means the majority of people's opinions of BDO are positive. After all last I checked multiple > one. :) 

There are some streamers I chat with, and when they ask me what I'm playing, and I say "BDO," they always follow up with "Isn't that game like totally P2W?"  

Cool, there are people I chat with at Church/Bus Station/Work/Mosque/Subway/Shopping Centres who reply with "Oh my god! I love that game, it's totally not P2W". So there goes your "argument". :) 

Also, whilst you're here could you explain to me how being able to sell cash shop items will increase your AP/DP, stats, improve your skill or let you get past RNG. :) 

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Posted

Aion is a free to play game. No one cares if it's P2W.

Black Desert is not a free to play game.

The fact that any P2W element ever existed in our version to begin with is both sad, and laughable, especially with how extensive and premium the cash shop STILL is. This is the point that people are trying to make when they say this game is P2W.

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Posted

Ahh RIP Aion, played it for a while, like a year or 2+ original beta and whatnot when the game was a sub model.  Good times.  Elyos were mad cheaters on my server, lots of botting, bunch of dumb stuff in the game too, but the first few months, good times.

Went to check it out a while back, broke my heart, just a husk of what it once was.  Riddled with P2W garbage, loot boxes, magic lucky keys...  all kinds of Korean gambling junk really.

Anyway after playing actuon combat games ala Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, and now BDO, I can never go back to those types of games, just boring really.

I digress, yeah, Aion turned into a P2W shitshow, and I use to really love that game, bummer.

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Posted

Today we look different at the games, don't we?? P2W are for the smart kids ;) but BDO is far from anything called P2W. We might have a little bit of it, but seriously nothing to cry about, compared to other Asian games.

Aion is another story, but in the same line as BDO. Aion became more and more a cash shop over the years, and they had to do that if they wanted to live.

Is it P2W meh.....maybe it is, just the way we are playing games today and not what we did 10 years ago. Let's move on shall we.

Is it fair? Maybe not, but no one on the planet Earth force you to play BDO, Aion or any other game.

Who can we blame? Don't ask me.....

 

 

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Posted

i'd say p2w doesnt quite cover it. its more like p2p. trying to play this game without cash shop items would be abso------ing-lutely unbearable. can you imagine....no value pack buffs, no pets, no weight limit increases, no art mems, ect? this game is so thoroughly infested with micro transactions that it's kindof disingenuous to call it B2P. trying to make it in this game without regularly spending money is a good way to get arthritis and anxiety. 

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Posted (edited)

we don't have any figures for population so no one can comment on whether the game is dead, dying or growing. 

They didn't lie or go back on their word though. They said the game would not be P2W and lo and behold it's still not. Where are the people who were crying that selling dyes would break the economy? Where are the people who were cyring about costumes making the game P2W? Where are the people claiming that costumes would rise in price? 

No, the is the impression of ONE person, if there were multiple people disagreeing with him in the comments then surely that means the majority of people's opinions of BDO are positive. 

Also, whilst you're here could you explain to me how being able to sell cash shop items will increase your AP/DP, stats, improve your skill or let you get past RNG. :) 

While I don't disagree on everything your wrote, let's try pointing out the things I'd say you're wrong about.

1: Sure, we don't have numbers to show if the game is dying or not. However, we're having more and more "returning players" events, indicating that they want to attract back old players. This COULD be taken as a sign that a lot of players have left the game and that they want them back. They're also making the game cheaper and cheaper, indicating the sales aren't going that well for 30-50 euro anymore and they had to lower the price to sell more units and make up for the loss basically. But sure, none of this is 100% since we don't have the numbers, but rather more like indications of what might be happening.

2: But they did lie. Multiple times on multiple topics. Nouver in september (and soon Nouver before christmas), no p2w (tailoring coupons + jordine's casual clothing = p2w no matter how you look at it because you can't (afaik) make up for that difference any other way without having to sacrifice something else (maybe a AP or HP gem or buff? also, Artisan's Memory and horse skill resets. The resets I'd say aren't that p2w though as RNG is involved in that and you can make up for it if you're lucky or have enough horses to breed + time to level), Combat exp only being on weekends until all awakenings was out (won't end).

3: Actually the majority of the people who play bdo are negative about at least 1-2 aspects of the game. For example, the cash shop items being sellable on market and the tailoring coupon only being available for pearls. Just an example. Every single poll held about the major changes to the cash shop has been negative with over 70% in ALL the polls being against the change (cash shop in market, Value pack tax, artisan's memory for pearls to name a few examples). You're free to find a poll where this isn't the case if you want to claim that the majority of people are positive about bdo. Not saying it's all bad, just saying it has it's fair share of stuff that the majority of players are negative about. It's a good game though other than that Imo :P.

4: You yourself did the math, no? What was it? 2-3 extra TRI attempts or so per week or month? RNG can be like this: You have 1 try at something and it's RNG. it's 50/50 maybe. But, if you had 1000 tries and the odds still were 50/50, it's more than 50% chance that you'd succeed with it at least once. The very same principle can be applied here. While it doesn't let players get "past" rng, it does give them more rng chances, adding up their total % of succeeding with something.

Edited by aidlac
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Posted

It's always best to start your "argument" by insulting anyone who disagrees with you. :) 

In what form? Q3 still made Kakao just under $25 million and we don't have any figures for population so no one can comment on whether the game is dead, dying or growing. 

They didn't lie or go back on their word though. They said the game would not be P2W and lo and behold it's still not. Where are the people who were crying that selling dyes would break the economy? Where are the people who were cyring about costumes making the game P2W? Where are the people claiming that costumes would rise in price? 

HOLD THE BLOODY PHONE! A YOUTUBER put up a video? OH MY BLOOD ********* ************* ********** GOD! You do understand that YouTube has millions of videos, right? For every YouTuber that puts up  a negative video about BDO there's another one who has put up a positive one. If you're going to let a random YouTuber decide your opinion for you then you might as well quit the forums, the game and the internet. :) 

No, the is the impression of ONE person, if there were multiple people disagreeing with him in the comments then surely that means the majority of people's opinions of BDO are positive. After all last I checked multiple > one. :) 

Cool, there are people I chat with at Church/Bus Station/Work/Mosque/Subway/Shopping Centres who reply with "Oh my god! I love that game, it's totally not P2W". So there goes your "argument". :) 

Also, whilst you're here could you explain to me how being able to sell cash shop items will increase your AP/DP, stats, improve your skill or let you get past RNG. :) 

Selling cash shop items gives you silver, more silver lets you pass the rng in less time statisticly speaking.

Also stop being silly.

 

Ahh RIP Aion, played it for a while, like a year or 2+ original beta and whatnot when the game was a sub model.  Good times.  Elyos were mad cheaters on my server, lots of botting, bunch of dumb stuff in the game too, but the first few months, good times.

Went to check it out a while back, broke my heart, just a husk of what it once was.  Riddled with P2W garbage, loot boxes, magic lucky keys...  all kinds of Korean gambling junk really.

Anyway after playing actuon combat games ala Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, and now BDO, I can never go back to those types of games, just boring really.

I digress, yeah, Aion turned into a P2W shitshow, and I use to really love that game, bummer.

Did you also play on Castor? :P

Once the banhammer hit there the Elyos faction was in shambles untill they merged the servers.

Bots where plenty on both sides though.

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Posted

I've only been here for like 2 and a half months, and I still have yet to see "Pay to Win".

When you can't enchant your crap without use of a cash shop item, because your gear will BREAK and go byebye, it's P2W.(Hello Vindictus).

When you can't participate in raids or dungeons in general because your gear cannot possibly be good enough without the use of those cash shop items, then it's P2W.(Again Vindictus).

You can get by with lower weight in this game, it just means more frequent trips. Convenience to pay to get higher.

And the marketplace tax reduction on the value pack is not as good as they make it sound. 15.5% in reality, not 30%.

I have played games that threw everything you ever wanted in loot boxes(Tera), or all your high level gear in loot boxes(Angels Online), and this is nothing like those train wrecks. This game feels rather damn nice and refreshing to me compared to all those. I just have to actually work for something. Oh no! Work!

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Posted

I've only been here for like 2 and a half months, and I still have yet to see "Pay to Win".

When you can't enchant your crap without use of a cash shop item, because your gear will BREAK and go byebye, it's P2W.(Hello Vindictus).

When you can't participate in raids or dungeons in general because your gear cannot possibly be good enough without the use of those cash shop items, then it's P2W.(Again Vindictus).

You can get by with lower weight in this game, it just means more frequent trips. Convenience to pay to get higher.

And the marketplace tax reduction on the value pack is not as good as they make it sound. 15.5% in reality, not 30%.

I have played games that threw everything you ever wanted in loot boxes(Tera), or all your high level gear in loot boxes(Angels Online), and this is nothing like those train wrecks. This game feels rather damn nice and refreshing to me compared to all those. I just have to actually work for something. Oh no! Work!

I didn't played Vindictus but I've played a lot of games that worked this way: almost every southasian mmorpg before WOW even existed worked that way. That's the point of p2w, when you can do certain things ONLY with items not found in game or bought EXCLUSIVELY wit real money items. That situation is not given in this game; but people like to manipulate definitions just to suit their arguments: I even got insulted in this forums by someone because according to him "GW2 is not F2P because F2P games can't have a cash shop", go figure.
In this game, the only thing that can be considered P2W, are Valks Cry.. and they aren't, because they are sold by loyalties and every player in this game has the same rate of earning them. OP stated the same for artisans memory, but they are also sold by loyalties, so they aren't P2W by definition.

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Posted

again?

It's not p2w.

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Posted

1: Sure, we don't have numbers to show if the game is dying or not.

The rest of your point doesn't warrant a reply as you've just destroyed your argument. We have no numbers, so we have no way of knowing. 

However, we're having more and more "returning players" events, indicating that they want to attract back old players. This COULD be taken as a sign that a lot of players have left the game and that they want them back. They're also making the game cheaper and cheaper, indicating the sales aren't going that well for 30-50 euro anymore and they had to lower the price to sell more units and make up for the loss basically. But sure, none of this is 100% since we don't have the numbers, but rather more like indications of what might be happening.

Since we're just using personal observations here that you're trying to pass off as facts, let me do the same. :) 

  • Q3 revenue still high at ~ $25 million
  • Each channel still massively populated
  • People still complaining about grinding spots 

This may strike you as a surprise, but every game gets cheaper the longer it has been since release, most MMOs also do a returning player package and last but not least EVERY SINGLE RETAILER in the world does discounts and sales during the holiday period. If you want to claim that discounted packages is a sign of population dip then apparently every single shop in the world is going out of business. :) 

2: But they did lie. Multiple times on multiple topics. Nouver in september (and soon Nouver before christmas),

Saying "We'll try to get it out" is not the same as "We are definitely releasing it". So no lie there.

no p2w (tailoring coupons + jordine's casual clothing = p2w no matter how you look at it because you can't (afaik) make up for that difference any other way without having to sacrifice something else (maybe a AP or HP gem or buff?

Movement speed is capped at +5, can't be P2W if the effect can be recreated FOR FREE. So no lie there.

also, Artisan's Memory

Pleaxe explain how these are P2W? You spend a little bit less money on memory fragments, which the game gives you for free with events. 

and horse skill resets.

You are aware you can get skill for free right? Please explain how it's P2W to spend real money but still have to deal with the same RNG. :) 

3: Actually the majority of the people who play bdo are negative 

Source please, since we're making up things with no evidence then I heard that the majority of people enjoy every aspect of BDO and agree with me. 

Every single poll held about the major changes to the cash shop has been negative with over 70% in ALL the polls being against the change 

Polls on a forum that has open registration and represents less than 10% of the game's population. You know what's a better representation of how players feel? Revenue. Odd that revenue is still at ~ $25 million for Q3. Wasn't everyone supposed to be quitting and not spending money? 

While it doesn't let players get "past" rng

There we go then, definitive proof that BDO isn't P2W. After all, if it's P2W then players could spend real cash to get better gear or a significant advantage over other players. :) 

Selling cash shop items gives you silver, more silver lets you pass the rng in less time statisticly speaking.

It doesn't actually, it gives you 2-3 chances extra per week. Statistically this is negligible. Try again friend. :) 

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Posted

BDO absolutely has P2W in it.  Anyone arguing that it's not is being pretty silly.  It's just a matter of how much it bothers you or not.  It bothers me for sure, but not enough to quit over it.

And sure, there are far worse offenders out there.  So what?

Regardless of there being games with far worse P2W, it's definitely given BDO a bad reputation and the damage is done.  Especially the way the publisher handled it, saying it wouldn't be P2W at launch, and then reneging on that word mere months later.  Some youtuber put out a video of the top 5 MMO failures of 2016, and BDO was in that list due to it's P2W fiasco.  Of course the comments filled up with BDO players saying otherwise, and who cares about some random youtuber right?  But the point is that this is people's impression of the game. There are some streamers I chat with, and when they ask me what I'm playing, and I say "BDO," they always follow up with "Isn't that game like totally P2W?"  

 

 

Oh well then, if the streamers think it's p2w and knowing how they are borderline godly and all knowing then this MUST be p2w.

 

I'm firing my lawyer & accountant and replacing them with streamers because these guys are the end all to every discussion.

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Posted

Short answer? No.

Long answer? Hell no.

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Posted

First MMOs= First love (not really but yeah, its nerd land).

 

 

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Posted

 

It doesn't actually, it gives you 2-3 chances extra per week. Statistically this is negligible. Try again friend. :) 

To state that the increase is negligible one must first state a base income that it could be compared to.

 

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