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Please Buff Tamer's Pet, Heilang's AI is completely useless compared to Witch/Wizards' Pet's AI.

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Posted

Why does Tamer's Pet still stand around after this patch, with the inclusion of 4 new types of pets with their own moves and AI? My roomie is a Wizard and dueling him was very frustrating, on my Tamer, due to the fact that his Water Elemental seemed to Lock on and hit me while I would do no damage to him and be across the arena. Guess what good ole Healing is doing? Standing by my side nothing absolutely nothing at all. Why doesn't Tamer pet also attack whats attack the caster in similar fashion? I do believe Pre-Mediah and Pre-Void Walking buff Heilang used to actually Knockdown, Knockback, and Stun enemies using his "Movies" (in theory he would us his own skills that was combos to ours on his own). This made Heilang amazing and allowed Tamers the chance the WW away. Now, I'm seriously done playing Tamer just for the fact the AI doesn't even compare to Witch and Wizards and it doesn't even attack things that attacks me in PvP nor in PvE. If you do want Heilang to do "anything" at all you have to use the Command: Attack and Heilang does nothing, but Swipe a few times before teleporting back to your location, he doesn't stay in attack mode at all so when that Warrior comes and grabs you, feel free to get a bucket of popcorn and kick back and watch Heilang, watch you get your ass kick, while you cringe for him to do something useful. 

 

TL:DR @CM_Aethon the revamp of Heilang that was patched in (http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/103337-patch-notes-july-20th/) has made Heilang subpar and useless compared to the other 4 pets in the game. Witch and Wizard's long range Elementals will continuously the target,  while Heilang stands there and does nothing. Heilang should be re-vamped to how he once was before he was "re-vamped" and released in NA  on July 20th. 

 

Re-Vamp Changes 

  • Heilang will no longer attack first or counterattack when summoned for the 1st time.

  • Heilang will no longer attack first or counterattack while under the commands: Follow, Stay, or Sit.

  • Heilang will no longer use its combat skills when the Tamer uses their own skill while under the commands: Stay or Sit.

  • Heilang will attack first or counterattack during as normal while under the command: Attack.

 

Re-Re-Vamp Changes  

  • Heilang will no longer attack first or counterattack when summoned for the 1st time. ( Heilang should always be on "Command: Attack" unless he is put on Sit, Stay, or Follow.) Yes, if he is always in attack mode he will attack red NPCs in Calpheon, well this should be reworked so the NPC have to hit the Tamer 1st, otherwise just be smart enough to put him on Follow. 

  • Heilang will no longer attack first or counterattack while under the commands: Follow, Stay, or Sit. (If Heiland is summoned in non attack mode or Follow then this explains why he stands there and does nothing as I am grabbed 4-5 times by a Berzerker. Before this Patch Zerks swear Tamers was the Hard counter to them due to the fact that while Tamer was being Grabbed-Locked by a Zerk their Pet would be swiping and applying CC Such as Knockback, knock down, or Stun. This used to allow enough time for the tides to be turned or and easy escape.  Now Heilang, just stands their and does nothing. Sucks being all immortal waiting on your Summoner to die. 

 

 

Please Fix TAMER 

 

QQ 

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Posted

They wont sadly people are crying tamer is good enough how it is now. Since they lose to a tamer that does not have high dmg abilitys compared to them. I agree tho they should buff our dmg big time, or give us that super armor while blocking like those chicken warriors hold 24/7.

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Posted

I personally don't see a problem with heilang's AI, it's just melee so it takes a longer time for it to have any effect on ranged classes beating on you compared to the ranged wiz/witch pet which has a good attack range. From the few witch/wizzies I've dueled since their awakening I've seen that their pet is doing more retarded sh*t than ours' eg I was watching a ranger 10 seconds into a duel with a wizard and the pet was attacking someone out of the arena LOL. Not that I'm complaining about it, they'll probably get a hotfix for it that's apparently SO important that they bring the whole server down for it LOL.

They wont sadly people are crying tamer is good enough how it is now. Since they lose to a tamer that does not have high dmg abilitys compared to them. I agree tho they should buff our dmg big time, or give us that super armor while blocking like those chicken warriors hold 24/7.

Off topic from OP but I think our damage is okay (I'm 215/209 AP) It's just that it's not safe in large scale PVP and extremely unreliable i-frames and superarmour.

 

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Posted

I'm fine with the way heilang ai is set up at the moment (it seems to be a little inconsistent at times but im pretty sure thats just since I have bad ping), save for the range heilang has before he teleports back to your location (its super annoying when wizards/musa/ranger dash out of his range and he teleports back to me) and i wish there was a way to toggle heilang into attack mode that was seperate from the charge attack, so when you start pvping you dont get stuck with that move on cd since you need to first toggle him into attack mode 

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Posted

Heilnag pet will go on attack, but then he will teleport back to you in like 10 seconds if YOURE not getting attacked by what he is attacking, as you stated a Wizards Pet AI was STILL aggro'd on  someone WHO WASNT EVEN ATTACKING the Wizard. Heilang just stands there. I havent seen him do anything since that July 20th patch was implemented. Ruined Tamer. Heilang would be so much better If he was like he used to be PRE-MEDIAH. ITs clearly not enough of an issue for you tamers, so i dont care any more either. Have fun WATCHING HEILANG WATCH YOU GET WRECK, KNOWING HE COULD USE CC IF THEY DIDNT ----- HIM UP. 

I personally don't see a problem with heilang's AI, it's just melee so it takes a longer time for it to have any effect on ranged classes beating on you compared to the ranged wiz/witch pet which has a good attack range. From the few witch/wizzies I've dueled since their awakening I've seen that their pet is doing more retarded sh*t than ours' eg I was watching a ranger 10 seconds into a duel with a wizard and the pet was attacking someone out of the arena LOL. Not that I'm complaining about it, they'll probably get a hotfix for it that's apparently SO important that they bring the whole server down for it LOL.

Off topic from OP but I think our damage is okay (I'm 215/209 AP) It's just that it's not safe in large scale PVP and extremely unreliable i-frames and superarmour.

 

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Posted (edited)

Well I liked hielang before they patched his ability to cc through super armor and guard but I guess that too was op.

Edited by Lenerlink

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Posted

The funny thing is that there is no reason for kakao to fix tamers.In pvp at high competitive levels there is only like 10 tamers that actually compete.No company in their right mind would spend energy and resource on fixing a broken class,which only 10 people would find it useful.but yeah,good luck  on getting our pet fixed. 

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Posted

  • The Bite attack for the Heilang’s attack pattern has been changed to no longer ignore the opponent's guard status.

  • The Heilang’s attack has been changed so that the attacks no longer push opponents back with the exception of successful knockbacks.

 

They're doing it wrong

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Posted

witch pet scales with gear while tamer one doesnt do shit

 

nice joke @CM_Aethon

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Posted

  • The Bite attack for the Heilang’s attack pattern has been changed to no longer ignore the opponent's guard status.

  • The Heilang’s attack has been changed so that the attacks no longer push opponents back with the exception of successful knockbacks.

 

They're doing it wrong

Nerfing the big bad Tamers just a little more. Can't wait for the next balance update.

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Posted (edited)

Our pets only good for eating and pressing Q. All of its attacks are pretty much useless at this point. 

Our kit is garbage compared to other classes kits. 

People call us an assassin class but we have to do long combo's with good AP to kill one person while non shortsword classes pretty much kill (often times multiple players) in 1-4 abilities with decent AP. 

I don't care what they do to Heilang. Our class in awakened form specifically needs some kit adjustments to make us more useful in largescale and to give us a role to fill. Cause right now many other classes make better gank/assassins. 

The only worthy change was where you made the summon and absorb animations faster. All the other stuff didn't change much. The patch where you made our Heilangs very tanky also took away our heilangs damage and parts of its functionality. 

Buffing our pet isn't going to give us a place in large scale and in my opinion thats what we need right now. We are good 1v1 class, our pve is fine, but our large scale is something guilds tend to want to avoid because every non shortsword class in the game is better at any role in Sieges/GvG.

Tamer and the other shortsword classes need to be buffed to match the non shortsword classes. An assassin class shouldn't have to do a chain of abilities to kill a single target while a non assassin class can kill in 1-4 abilities with decent AP (often times 1-2 ability with good ap) @CM_Aethon

You guys made the tankiest classes and ranged clases in the game better at killing then the glass assassin classes -_- wot

The funny thing is that there is no reason for kakao to fix tamers.In pvp at high competitive levels there is only like 10 tamers that actually compete.No company in their right mind would spend energy and resource on fixing a broken class,which only 10 people would find it useful.but yeah,good luck  on getting our pet fixed. 

There's a reason only like 10 tamers in top PvP.... Most competitive PvP guilds dropped tamers cause if they hit 100 members and everyone meets requirements they drop the weak classes. 

If tamer was a better class there would be a lot more of them running around. But right now people just reroll off the class and new players avoid the class because they hear about how its weak. 

Only 10 tamers who can compete because most of them either rerolled or quit already because tamer isn't a competitive class, especially in largescale pvp. 

Tamer is fine 1v1, its fine PVE, it sucks ass large scale. The class isn't competitive there. Even the 10 or so that are competitive have crap scores compared to other classes and just as geared players. They also still fill no role better then other classes. That is why you don't see many tamers. 

Edited by Asami
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Posted

I agree with op 100% we need a buff

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Posted

Please fix tamer!!

Just like the rest of the players on here who are frustrated so am I. I love the fight style of the Tamer but it is getting more discouraging when I play. The class feels like a punching bag compared to the rest of the classes. I find it unfair that the Witch/Wizard are allowed to keep their pets out longer then 30min and their pets stay out in deep water. For the Helinag it disappears in water that is shin deep! What use is that?! If I am farming Catfishmen for quests I can't even use the Pet that makes the Tamer even usable.

 

Please Fix!!

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Posted

Our pets only good for eating and pressing Q. All of its attacks are pretty much useless at this point. 

Our kit is garbage compared to other classes kits. 

People call us an assassin class but we have to do long combo's with good AP to kill one person while non shortsword classes pretty much kill (often times multiple players) in 1-4 abilities with decent AP. 

I don't care what they do to Heilang. Our class in awakened form specifically needs some kit adjustments to make us more useful in largescale and to give us a role to fill. Cause right now many other classes make better gank/assassins. 

The only worthy change was where you made the summon and absorb animations faster. All the other stuff didn't change much. The patch where you made our Heilangs very tanky also took away our heilangs damage and parts of its functionality. 

Buffing our pet isn't going to give us a place in large scale and in my opinion thats what we need right now. We are good 1v1 class, our pve is fine, but our large scale is something guilds tend to want to avoid because every non shortsword class in the game is better at any role in Sieges/GvG.

Tamer and the other shortsword classes need to be buffed to match the non shortsword classes. An assassin class shouldn't have to do a chain of abilities to kill a single target while a non assassin class can kill in 1-4 abilities with decent AP (often times 1-2 ability with good ap) @CM_Aethon

You guys made the tankiest classes and ranged clases in the game better at killing then the glass assassin classes -_- wot

There's a reason only like 10 tamers in top PvP.... Most competitive PvP guilds dropped tamers cause if they hit 100 members and everyone meets requirements they drop the weak classes. 

If tamer was a better class there would be a lot more of them running around. But right now people just reroll off the class and new players avoid the class because they hear about how its weak. 

Only 10 tamers who can compete because most of them either rerolled or quit already because tamer isn't a competitive class, especially in largescale pvp. 

Tamer is fine 1v1, its fine PVE, it sucks ass large scale. The class isn't competitive there. Even the 10 or so that are competitive have crap scores compared to other classes and just as geared players. They also still fill no role better then other classes. That is why you don't see many tamers. 

i agree with you, makes no sense how much faster I die to non SS classes b/c I have to do a million and one moves, while they can easily 2-3 shot me. Witch is even more a problem now. 

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Posted

I never understood this complaint. Have any of you actually played witch/wizard? Their pets are essentially autoattacking mobs with less damage. Heiling is still far better than their summons. 

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Posted

I recently rejoined the game and started playing (as luck would have it) a tamer and a witch. Witch came first, then tamer. Minor beef with leveling aside, I loved both classes equally.

Heillang sucks, HARD, considering it:

1) Takes skill points to make stronger

2) The command abilities function like actual abilities and have lengthy animations. What? Really? You need my character to freeze in place and point for a couple seconds in order for this glorious fluffy spirit thing to know what to attack? I honestly would not care if they made shift +1-5 keybinds for the pet abilities as well, and changed the commands to just instant, low cooldown 'yeah go do this thing' so I can quickly tell my pet what to attack. I was looking forward to using my pet to gather up mobs, but with how slow the attack command is and ***see below*, yeeaaah

3) Short leash. Makes it a pain to gather up mobs and I've had far less trouble with my witch's pet. I can see where it'd also be difficult to deal with in PvP against a ranged class

4) It really does seem like Witch pet does more damage, single target at least. I know Heilang has some decent AoEs (though when I was leveling against Sausans the ability he does with the attack command and tamer Q didn't seem to do much...). 

I wish Tamer's attack command ability was more like Witch's way to command pets. 1 sec cooldown, very short use time, pet just goes and attacks.

However, Heilang isn't entirely godawful. Credit where credit is due - he's a tanky little fluffer and it's pretty amazing. There have been many times where I'm fighting some mobs and wondering where the rest of them went, only to finish the fight, look over and see that Heilang was holding up a group of 5-6 and he's at 75% health. 

 

All in all, I've found Heilang clunky to use and strong in all the wrong places. I'd like him to be less tanky but do more damage, I'd like to have to think about what he's doing more often, I'd like to have to decide when he uses his abilities, or decide when to use my abilities that have him take a different action. Right now, the Witch pet feels more like an actual pet than Heilang does. Heilang feels like an ability I used 15min ago and it just hasn't faded yet for some reason, and nobody can tell me why it's still there.

 

Side note, I've been reading around and it seems the general consensus is that Tamers are fine in 1v1 and PvE, but struggle in group play? I do think Heilang could be less tanky, but I've not yet had the time to delve into group PvP, so while I think his tankiness could be lowered to compensate for a lil more attack or something, I realize that he also needs to not instantly implode in group PvP. Perhaps give him more resistance to AoE damage, but less to single target. That way, people are rewarded for deciding to deal with the pet instead of the Tamer.

__________________________

@EdensAngel - Just had to comment on this, I was sailing on my witch and saw something deep in the water...I was freaking out until I realized it was Gorr xD

__________________________

Another side note, looking above it seems Heilang doesn't scale with gear? That's just lovely -_- My Tamer is rather undergeared and I was hoping to feel a little more love towards Heilang as I got better gear, but apparently not.

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Posted

As a witch main who swapped from tamer...

Witch pets aren't any better. They do auto attack level damage and cannot aggro more mobs.  

 

If you can't see the benefit of heilang, then let me help! Heilang is there for combo attacks that you don't otherwise get. For example, your Q in ss mode is a full on 4 second AOE stun. That is OP as shit. 

ALL of your staff combos have a combo attack with heilang. Spinner has a down attack, S+lmb has a follow up swipe, D/A+lmb have a stiffness combo, pole vault has an aerial attack. Tamer is a very effective cc class when you use heilang correctly; it's not there to do damage or really to suck up damage, it replaces the cc that is on other classes' abilities. 

So yeah tamer sucks in general but if you use it right it's wicked effective. 

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Posted

D/A+lmb have a stiffness combo, pole vault has an aerial attack.

Wut? He never does anything when I use these attacks.

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Yeah, I've not seen that either

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As a witch main who swapped from tamer...

Witch pets aren't any better. They do auto attack level damage and cannot aggro more mobs.  

 

If you can't see the benefit of heilang, then let me help! Heilang is there for combo attacks that you don't otherwise get. For example, your Q in ss mode is a full on 4 second AOE stun. That is OP as shit. 

ALL of your staff combos have a combo attack with heilang. Spinner has a down attack, S+lmb has a follow up swipe, D/A+lmb have a stiffness combo, pole vault has an aerial attack. Tamer is a very effective cc class when you use heilang correctly; it's not there to do damage or really to suck up damage, it replaces the cc that is on other classes' abilities. 

So yeah tamer sucks in general but if you use it right it's wicked effective. 

 

nice joke

 

witch pet scales with gear and with 220 ap and high accuracy it does over 300 dmg per ranged attack while heilang does 0 damage except when it works as dps filler for allround spinner and vermillion and beast rampage 

 

they could just add 10-20% more dmg on these skills instead and remove the pet , it would be the same effect and we wouldnt have to rely on the pet to finish attacks 

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Posted

If you can't see the benefit of heilang, then let me help! Heilang is there for combo attacks that you don't otherwise get. For example, your Q in ss mode is a full on 4 second AOE stun. That is OP as shit. 

LOL if you call that OP then wizard ult will blow your brains out. Wizard can 1 shot people in a HUGE aoe with NO COUNTERPLAY while tamer has a stun in a small area in a game where every class shits out iframes and superarmour and you call it OP? LOL

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Posted

Rampage does do heilang combo, he does double claw which does CC. Though it's really not that much in PvP due to the usage except it does summon him.

Doing heilang attack is by far his most useful trick if you need to make use of Heilang CCs. Less useful in 1v1 due to animation but infinitely nicer as the player scale grows.

 

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LOL if you call that OP then wizard ult will blow your brains out. Wizard can 1 shot people in a HUGE aoe with NO COUNTERPLAY while tamer has a stun in a small area in a game where every class shits out iframes and superarmour and you call it OP? LOL

This skill is OP for on special reason. It ignores pvp cc immunity's because Heilang is flagged as "mob".

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This skill is OP for on special reason. It ignores pvp cc immunity's because Heilang is flagged as "mob".

Void lightning is good at best, small area easily avoidable and if someone is caught in it most likely will get out. Its not like if they touch it they cant move for 4 seconds its a series of hits that each one stiffnesses you. Cant tell you how many times ive used it and people have got hit once then just walk out of it or i frame or superarmor. Unlike a warrior who have a 3 second stun if u get touched, tamers dont have that luxury. But yeah void lightning is so op as long as ur fighting... uh... another tamer? Maybe a kuno or ninja? Lets just say shortsword classes in general :) 

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I would like to see a revamped pet in general which uses the same system as the wizard/witch. Pet can't die, lasts 30 minutes and have more combos with more attacks (rework flow skills for these). Some of the current flow skills for awakening could be given directly to the skill (as they should of been really) and use those extra slots for Heilang flows where he joins in on the fun. That way damage doesn't need to be adjusted and our pet is actually useful.

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