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Witch/wizard awakening is way too OP. Nerf or tuning needed.

501 posts in this topic

Posted

The only thing that needs to change for Wiz is some decrease on his 100% dmg. Otherwise he's fine. That shit just hits way too hard. Witch is also fine.

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Posted

For the record? I don't experience the "wizard -----d my guild" with 100% bullshit, as when I see the wizard(We have a few mages that keeps a look out for this very reason) looking like he's about to pull a "screw these kids", we pop Protective Area, etc.

The fact that you can even complain about this issue as if it's not something that can be prevented goes to show that you lack skill and tactical experience with this game.
I don't  mean that to offend, of course.

Every class has utility that can change something that seems small but has large outcomes.
Most of you "I like to oneshot and get shit loads of kills" kids fail to realize it because you lack awareness.
This is the difference between followers and leaders in said nodewars.

So you just always have a protective area ready to go, in any group, that's good to know. Cause that's clearly how it works. You always manage to see the double teleporting wiz or Ving wiz creeping into ult. 
Good to know that I am just such an unskilled player that I cannot avoid it. Aspecially the V's cause I know EXACTLY where they are.

You are absolutely crazy, you cannot just avoid all of that, the whole game right now is about killing people in one combo pretty much, and there is nearly no reason for any class to go full DP as you apparently suggest. You'll still get splatted just as fast. Most players we meet nowadays are at around 220-249 AP, most around 230 due to kutum etc. But even with over 300 DP you do get splatted like it was childsplay by most classes, the difference here is that wizards and witches can do it on a mass scale, and have so many tools at their disposal to do so.
And most classes get severely punished if they go DP builds as their AP scaling is NOWHERE near other classes. A witch and wizard's AP scaling is quite stupid.
You can do devestating damage at low AP, thus you can even go full DP if you want so you can will every 1v1 you encounter.


But take my main class at low AP(Kunoichi), that barely tickles someone, imagine trying to kill someone as a Kuno if the opponent has full DP. It would be near impossible, and also rendering a Kuno completly useless again in a siege/node when you can't even just finish someone off quickly.

Sages, protective, heals, speed spell, insane E buff and then on top of all that just absolute crazy damage, it's easy for a wiz/witch to pop sages + protective and go in and wreck 10 people if they so want to.
As I sortof said there is NO chance you can protect yourself at all times from an attack like that, you have no chance to have 100% control of whats happening in say a 70v70. To pop your precious protective for that 1 wizard that decided to be bold.

But it's pretty clear to me that you have a bias so there is no point even discussing with you.

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Posted

Then tweak/buff some classes like Musa, Maehwa.

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Posted

Do you have a point/argument to contribute?If not I don't have any more time than this for you.

Thanks.

I think @Someone just about covered it.

Thanks. :)

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Posted (edited)

So you just always have a protective area ready to go, in any group, that's good to know. Cause that's clearly how it works. You always manage to see the double teleporting wiz or Ving wiz creeping into ult. Good to know that I am just such an unskilled player that I cannot avoid it. Aspecially the V's cause I know EXACTLY where they are.

(We have a few mages that keeps a look out for this very reason) looking like he's about to pull a "screw these kids", we pop Protective Area, etc.

 Again, the difference between button smasher and seasoned, skilled players is outlined right here.
You're too focused on "I can do this" instead of "We can do this".
In node wars, "I can do this" generally gets you demolished, so I can see why you're upset about it.
Your care for Killscore seems to sum this up quite nicely as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but do you main glass cannon build?
If so, you've summed up my profile about you, also the reason why you're complaining about things you clearly fail to understand.
It's okay though, those things can be taught/learned.

As for "always see the double t" look, I'm not sure how your guild does it, but we don't leave all our kittens in the same sell box.
We have people set a perimeter/peel/scout/etc. and even THEN, if they are missed, yes. As a skilled wizard, generally I can catch my sage>prot off before an enemy wizards 100% falls.
You don't play wizard, do you.
That or you don't have others effects on? Either way, it's more than likely what's hindering you.

You are absolutely crazy,

Yeah that seems pretty accurate.

You are absolutely crazy, you cannot just avoid all of that, the whole game right now is about killing people in one combo pretty much, and there is nearly no reason for any class to go full DP as you apparently suggest. You'll still get splatted just as fast. Most players we meet nowadays are at around 220-249 AP, most around 230 due to kutum etc. But even with over 300 DP you do get splatted like it was childsplay by most classes, the difference here is that wizards and witches can do it on a mass scale, and have so many tools at their disposal to do so.
And most classes get severely punished if they go DP builds as their AP scaling is NOWHERE near other classes. A witch and wizard's AP scaling is quite stupid.
You can do devestating damage at low AP, thus you can even go full DP if you want so you can will every 1v1 you encounter.

I do agree that not all classes benefit as highly as Wichards do from stacking DP. The downside to this is that many DP stacking wichards are not as effective when they need to be, thus, the lack of them. Having a few in a good group is really nice, however. As most people generally focus wichards first(another balance factor, lol).
Most players are not 220-249 ap. Please give your clearly, datamined sources to give information based on your claims. Anyways, you are correct. 300 DP is still within glass cannon DP range. Generally 340-50 is considered "Proper" hybrid based on wichard math done by Azveki(is that how you spell her name o-o)

But take my main class at low AP(Kunoichi), that barely tickles someone, imagine trying to kill someone as a Kuno if the opponent has full DP. It would be near impossible, and also rendering a Kuno completly useless again in a siege/node when you can't even just finish someone off quickly.

So you're confused, i think? Why would you expect to kill anyone "Quickly" with low AP on any class? Not even Wichards can do that. It also depends on what you consider "Low AP" as well as all of the other PvP damage input factors to consider. 
I don't know many kunos or ninjas with low AP. I know of one that has moderate AP and rather high DP and Evasion, they are very difficult to fight unless you're used to fighting the class.
If your focus is on killing people quickly, you have no right to complain about dying quickly as well. There has to be a trade off. ----- you if you think you should be able to kill quickly and not die just as quickly, but you don't seem stupid so I'm sure that's not what you're trying to push.

Sages, protective, heals, speed spell, insane E buff and then on top of all that just absolute crazy damage, it's easy for a wiz/witch to pop sages + protective and go in and wreck 10 people if they so want to.

Yes. This works on players who are not skilled in the art of what I call.. 'Wichard Bullshitery.'
You sound like you need to PvP more wichards and, as i stated before, go over their skills for better understanding.

Not sure how you do it, but personally  what helps me is-
1. Knowing what all the skills look like
2. Knowing common high damage combos and anticipating when they might want to be used
3. how  to bait
4. knowing general cooldowns of skills
5. etc.

If you're not willing to do things like this? Imo, you shouldn't consider yourself a competitive PvPer. 
Don't get me wrong, as stated before;

I'm not implying that our current balance system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. Just.. Not the ones you people seem to think you understand.

As I sortof said there is NO chance you can protect yourself at all times from an attack like that, you have no chance to have 100% control of whats happening in say a 70v70. To pop your precious protective for that 1 wizard that decided to be bold.

But it's pretty clear to me that you have a bias so there is no point even discussing with you.

Not from all times, no. But we've yet to have our system fail us yet, because we pratice.
We practice and practice and practice and train and train and train and learn and learn and learn.
In my guild, we have nights dedicated to class learning and awareness.

As for the bias, What might it be? That i'm actually a pvper who takes time to learn about the classes he has issues with? Can you even describe, in detail, what exactly is killing you?
You ask for them to nerf my main class, but you can't even describe in detail what should be changed?
You're not a pvper, in my eyes. You don't care enough about the aspect and concept of it.

To me, it looks a lot like you're complaining. But I might be wrong. Explain to me what your problem is, since you want us Wichards to be nerfed.

Edited by War
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Posted (edited)

Cept valk has a block that is influenced by DP.Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. Not comparing either.
I am simply speaking based on Witchard gameplay.

One of  our more reliable means of defense is Teleport, which can be stopped before popping. Outside of that, we have to skillfully play around our Defense skills, which, in my experience, are commonly used in group sensitive situations(about to gank dat tower), and less in >----- that ranger is after me< game play.

Again, Not complaining, simply attempting to spread awareness about some of the balancing factors in our class.

Valk sacrafices "screw you damage" for more reliable suitability and combo fueled burst damage, where as witchards sacrifice most survivability for "omg that damage nerf pls".

What people see is the fact that we kill people, and not what leads up to it.
Matter of fact, most of my largest kills come FROM valks, since they have the ability to, like an asshole, kidnap people into one general location.

I don't like to argue class vs class because of my view on this game-
Every class has a purpose, some do others better, some suck at shit while others excel at shit.

Players who press buttons are absent of this awareness, which is a big reason why they complain and whine for balance.

They want to be valks that can block and do ranger/wizard damage and be able to kill everyone without tax.

 

 

 

I disagree. :)

That block gets one shot by 85 percent of the classes in the game in 1-2 skills, dp in its current state is irreverent. Witch also has a block...... 

I have no issue not doing damage as Valk, but i do have an issue when the tank classes cant tank the damage that the dps classes put out. That my friend is a balance issue. Survive-ability in this game is little to nothing regardless of class so that argument is irrelevant. 

I do however find it interesting that regardless of the fact that i grouped Witch/Wiz in with several other classes you still found a way to try and victimize the class. When clearly the class is at least on par with those other "op" classes. 

Edited by KeenEye
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Posted (edited)

@War

Witch and Wizard undeniably provide too much utility in sieges for the amount of damage we do. No amount of rationalization will change that.

I'd like to see protective area, healing lighthouse and speed spell nerfed, and damage reduced on awakening spells. I'd also like to see a 3 sec CD iframe on magical evasion to compensate. 

Edited by Tryldom

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Posted

Snip
 

I have a wizard at high level and geared and I leveled a witch for lols too, and Tryldom lives with me and mains a wizard.
On top of that most of the top geared people in my guild are witches or wizards.
I would say I know a thing or two.

I know how the abilities look, I know how it works, but I also know how easy it is to get something off.
And you just attack me saying I am not a proper pvper or whatever, you don't know a thing about me, I am not even in the groups that get attacked by these witches or wizards, I am in the scout/dagger role. So I have more specialized work.
And I for the most part have no issues surviving most things, and I do wonders in 1v1 situations or 1vX.
AND yes killing people fast is a huge part of it if you are gonna be an assassin in a dagger role. You should be able to easily eliminate your targets, without doing this task, your "job" in a siege/nodewar/gvg is absolutely nothing, running around with lower AP, dodging people and not killing shit helps no one, you can't just eliminate targets in group fights without actually doing damage. In 1v1 it's a completly different ballgame.
Remember this class is very niche when it comes to medium-large scale.
But my point being though is that still a lot of classes can do the same job, specially now.


I am saying what I see as repeat offenders, and things I see our wizards and witches do as well.
Don't just judge people, just cause something favors me I will still say what is wrong with it.

And it's clearly not okay to not even manage a full combo on someone and kill them when a person has let's say full TRI at 263 with around 150 AP.
But that seems completely fine to you.

If you really do not see whats wrong with witches wizards, please do show me your conquest scores from your last fights, and do tell me what classes are at the top.
Yes you clearly have bias as you are playing a wiz/witch if you think everything is fine and dandy with them.
And please do stop with personal attacks when you have absolutely no clue and spew things out of your ....

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Posted

wiz/witch need a buff animation wise, some of their chaining is clunky and doesn't fit properly one with another, they're fine otherwise, it's a stat ball class that relies on dmg output to kill stuff, it's game design nothing else

Animation on Witch is bad. I don't use pets to loot and I can kill in 10% of the time it takes to unlock the animation and loot. I've usually hit R 40 or 50 times before she actually picks stuff up.

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Posted

they wont turn anything down. every top tier class has that bunch of abilitys. maybe there will be some little buffs for the minor tier classes. ninja community is already cring like somewhat.

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Posted

 

I have a wizard at high level and geared and I leveled a witch for lols too, and Tryldom lives with me and mains a wizard.
On top of that most of the top geared people in my guild are witches or wizards.
I would say I know a thing or two.

I know how the abilities look, I know how it works, but I also know how easy it is to get something off.
And you just attack me saying I am not a proper pvper or whatever, you don't know a thing about me, I am not even in the groups that get attacked by these witches or wizards, I am in the scout/dagger role. So I have more specialized work.
And I for the most part have no issues surviving most things, and I do wonders in 1v1 situations or 1vX.
AND yes killing people fast is a huge part of it if you are gonna be an assassin in a dagger role. You should be able to easily eliminate your targets, without doing this task, your "job" in a siege/nodewar/gvg is absolutely nothing, running around with lower AP, dodging people and not killing shit helps no one, you can't just eliminate targets in group fights without actually doing damage. In 1v1 it's a completly different ballgame.
Remember this class is very niche when it comes to medium-large scale.
But my point being though is that still a lot of classes can do the same job, specially now.


I am saying what I see as repeat offenders, and things I see our wizards and witches do as well.
Don't just judge people, just cause something favors me I will still say what is wrong with it.

And it's clearly not okay to not even manage a full combo on someone and kill them when a person has let's say full TRI at 263 with around 150 AP.
But that seems completely fine to you.

If you really do not see whats wrong with witches wizards, please do show me your conquest scores from your last fights, and do tell me what classes are at the top.
Yes you clearly have bias as you are playing a wiz/witch if you think everything is fine and dandy with them.
And please do stop with personal attacks when you have absolutely no clue and spew things out of your ....

im sorry but what are u trying to say? So much vague stories. Yes i get top scores too but im nothing special, i just got high AP and the majority u face in wars r plebs for the kilscore, but that doesnt make wiz more OP. Full tri dp is nothing, any awak class with 220+ will onecombo that.

Personally our ulti may hit to hard, but in the grand scheme of things n what all classes can do with 240 ap its hard to tell whats OP, be it 1v1, group, grabs, etc.

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Posted

 

im sorry but what are u trying to say? So much vague stories. Yes i get top scores too but im nothing special, i just got high AP and the majority u face in wars r plebs for the kilscore, but that doesnt make wiz more OP. Full tri dp is nothing, any awak class with 220+ will onecombo that.

Personally our ulti may hit to hard, but in the grand scheme of things n what all classes can do with 240 ap its hard to tell whats OP, be it 1v1, group, grabs, etc.

If you did not read, I said a 150ish AP wizard can one combo someone in full TRI. (Without Ulting and assuming you are 59/60)

And for the 240+ AP thing, dude, I am well above that if I use Nouver, and I cannot do nearly as much damage as the wizards/witches I've been fighting with equal gear.
This goes for other classes too.
AGAIN, not saying that I get crushed by them 1v1 as people seem to think if people talk about balance, but the point here is that the damage is tuned way too high, for the utility you bring, I am fully aware that animations are somewhat slow, and that you get kinda locked into them, so it's "easy" to go in for a grab to take you out. 
It does not change the fact that at the moment wizards and witches are PVP and PVE gods, there's no one that can even grind as good as you. There's not a single other class that can just 2 shot every pack in Pila Ku for example.
The overall kit is just way too unbalanced.

A point Tryldom said to me was that wizard and witch grind as fast as ranger did relative to other classes pre-awakening and now you cannot say that "it will balance out when awakening comes" as it was stated before.

Is this how the game is supposed to be? 
One class absolutely dominating in medium to large scale pvp and while grinding as well?
Heck I even made my Wizard just cause the grinding is twice as fast as my main class, I get more silver per hour with it.

Could say so much more but it goes to deaf ears on these forums.

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Posted

 

I do agree that not all classes benefit as highly as Wichards do from stacking DP. The downside to this is that many DP stacking wichards are not as effective when they need to be, thus, the lack of them. Having a few in a good group is really nice, however. As most people generally focus wichards first(another balance factor, lol).
Most players are not 220-249 ap. Please give your clearly, datamined sources to give information based on your claims. Anyways, you are correct. 300 DP is still within glass cannon DP range. Generally 340-50 is considered "Proper" hybrid based on wichard math done by Azveki(is that how you spell her name o-o)

One reason for this is this stupid stupid stupid +20AP passive. The most broken one in the game close to +10% movement speed. (side note: Tamer want a passive line and a buff for 25lt/50hp class passive)

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Posted

If you did not read, I said a 150ish AP wizard can one combo someone in full TRI. (Without Ulting and assuming you are 59/60

I'm getting around to your other posts but, so it's here when i get to it, can you provide in depth examples of this? Wizards "one comboing"  each class with full tri loadouts and with 150 mainhand/awk(i assume) AP, for the sake of science and backing, since you're using it in your argument.

I can not test this myself at this time as I'm currently at work, but I assume you have examples and data to show, since you are using it as backing in your argument.

I'm going to go read those other posts now.

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Black Desert / PvP / Balance ..... MOAUAHAHOAUAUOAHUAHHUAUHAUHAUAHAUUHAHUAHUAUHAUHAHAUAAUAUHAUAHAUAAHuaHHUHA !

Sry i forget => GIT GUD or buy more HP pot !

PS: KD = WIN (equal gear)

PS2: Stack evasion or Acc then prey to fight an oppenent without Eva or Acc / or refer to PS above !

PS3: NOW STOP QQ AND GO CUT SOME WOOD THERE IS A LOG EVENT !

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Posted

That block gets one shot by 85 percent of the classes in the game in 1-2 skills, dp in its current state is irreverent. Witch also has a block...... 

In all cases? Please provide more elaborate information. You want my class nerfed you're going to have to do more work than "the block gets hit for 85% of the classes in the game in 1-2 kills", which honestly doesn't even make sense to me.

DP is not irrelevant, if you honestly believe this, you either need to get educated or stop arguing, as you're misinformed.

I have no issue not doing damage as Valk, but i do have an issue when the tank classes cant tank the damage that the dps classes put out. That my friend is a balance issue. Survive-ability in this game is little to nothing regardless of class so that argument is irrelevant. 

 I don't see it as such.I think your problem is, what you consider "Balance" is being able to dish out heavy damage and take moderate damage. There has to be a tradeoff. For those of you who choose the route of "Destroy Thy Infidels", your tradeoff is your survivability. 
That is the balance. Is it "Perfect"? No. Needs tweaking? Of course.
Is it absolutely unbalanced? Nah.
Are you people helping provide substantial data to help balance it? Nope.

I do however find it interesting that regardless of the fact that i grouped Witch/Wiz in with several other classes you still found a way to try and victimize the class. When clearly the class is at least on par with those other "op" classes. 

I'm sorry i'm lost. IT could be because i have not finished my coffee this morning but, i have no idea what you're talking about :T

I have a wizard at high level and geared and I leveled a witch for lols too, and Tryldom lives with me and mains a wizard.
 

 

 For the lols is not enough to keep up an argument with someone who has over 200 days into his wizard methinks. But that might just be me. This is besides the point, anyways.

On top of that most of the top geared people in my guild are witches or wizards.
I would say I know a thing or two.

So you know a thing or two because they are geared wizards? That's great. Again, besides the point.

 

I know how the abilities look, I know how it works, but I also know how easy it is to get something off.

Then you clearly don't know how the abilities work, if it's always easy to "get something off". That or you're not hitting shit. Dunno. I main Wizard and have done so since the start of the game. I play the class quite seriously, as if it's my life even. So I might have a bit of biased/different understanding in regards to doing every single fight and war thus far on my main, Wizard.

 


And you just attack me saying I am not a proper pvper or whatever, you don't know a thing about me, I am not even in the groups that get attacked by these witches or wizards, I am in the scout/dagger role. So I have more specialized work.

I do this based on the information you provide and  the lack of knowledge regarding this game that yo u display.
So yes. I came to the conclusion that you know nothing, since you clearly don't know that you should be calling out "WIZARD/WITCH" every time you even see them, since being able to notice one inside your group was a new concept to you, i can quote you if you want. 


And I for the most part have no issues surviving most things, and I do wonders in 1v1 situations or 1vX.
AND yes killing people fast is a huge part of it if you are gonna be an assassin in a dagger role. You should be able to easily eliminate your targets, without doing this task, your "job" in a siege/nodewar/gvg is absolutely nothing, running around with lower AP, dodging people and not killing shit helps no one, you can't just eliminate targets in group fights without actually doing damage. In 1v1 it's a completly different ballgame.

That 1v1 shit mentality is why I came to the conclusion that you're unskilled. You should never assume you're going to be in a 1v1 situation even if you are going into a "Dagger/assassination" role during group PvP, as aware groups will see you and due to your supposed positioning, jump you.
Our wizards/Witches don't do this anyways. If we're going to assassinate someone, we intend to take the entire group with us, with a bang.. all at once and as synchronized as possible.  Your RP skills seem on point though. Mad rep for that. But I'm talking actual war here.


Remember this class is very niche when it comes to medium-large scale.
But my point being though is that still a lot of classes can do the same job, specially now.


I am saying what I see as repeat offenders, and things I see our wizards and witches do as well.
Don't just judge people, just cause something favors me I will still say what is wrong with it.

Ever consider it's because they are skilled? As for the rest of that i don't know what you're on about.


And it's clearly not okay to not even manage a full combo on someone and kill them when a person has let's say full TRI at 263 with around 150 AP.
But that seems completely fine to you.

... 263 DP is below glass cannon norm DP... See this is what I was -----ing saying. You kids that stack AP and have crap all for DP expect to live no. No. Screw off with that.
IF you have NO DP ACCESSORIES AT ALL YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE SURVIVING ANY MORE THAN THE DAMAGE YOU DEAL TO KILL OTHER PLAYERS AND THEIR TTL.

 No.

Why does it seem fine to you that in your mind, someone that can pull off 240PLUS ap  should be viable in DP as well are you kidding me.
Get out of here glass cannon.

If you really do not see whats wrong with witches wizards, please do show me your conquest scores from your last fights, and do tell me what classes are at the top.
Yes you clearly have bias as you are playing a wiz/witch if you think everything is fine and dandy with them.
And please do stop with personal attacks when you have absolutely no clue and spew things out of your ....

I don't care about my score I care about winning the god damn war.
If I've personally offended you, it was not my intention and I do apologize about that. I can be rather aggressive with arguments at times.

Black Desert / PvP / Balance ..... MOAUAHAHOAUAUOAHUAHHUAUHAUHAUAHAUUHAHUAHUAUHAUHAHAUAAUAUHAUAHAUAAHuaHHUHA !

Sry i forget => GIT GUD or buy more HP pot !

PS: KD = WIN (equal gear)

PS2: Stack evasion or Acc then prey to fight an oppenent without Eva or Acc / or refer to PS above !

PS3: NOW STOP QQ AND GO CUT SOME WOOD THERE IS A LOG EVENT !

define what you consider as equal gear, cause if i'm fighting a 500gs anything in my 500 gs set, in a duel, I win unless it's another witchard.
What do you mean by equal gear? Do you mean Exact same stats? because if so then duh... LOL. THAT IS WHAT WE CALL SKILL REQUIREMENTS. You don't always NEED to be close enough to get kd by your enemy,  and if you are serious about 1v1 you'd know the mass -----ery that most classes do when they 1v1. Cmon dude, do better.

im sorry but what are u trying to say? So much vague stories. Yes i get top scores too but im nothing special, i just got high AP and the majority u face in wars r plebs for the kilscore, but that doesnt make wiz more OP. Full tri dp is nothing, any awak class with 220+ will onecombo that.

Personally our ulti may hit to hard, but in the grand scheme of things n what all classes can do with 240 ap its hard to tell whats OP, be it 1v1, group, grabs, etc.

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Posted

 

In all cases? Please provide more elaborate information. You want my class nerfed you're going to have to do more work than "the block gets hit for 85% of the classes in the game in 1-2 kills", which honestly doesn't even make sense to me.

DP is not irrelevant, if you honestly believe this, you either need to get educated or stop arguing, as you're misinformed.

 I don't see it as such.I think your problem is, what you consider "Balance" is being able to dish out heavy damage and take moderate damage. There has to be a tradeoff. For those of you who choose the route of "Destroy Thy Infidels", your tradeoff is your survivability. 
That is the balance. Is it "Perfect"? No. Needs tweaking? Of course.
Is it absolutely unbalanced? Nah.
Are you people helping provide substantial data to help balance it? Nope.

I'm sorry i'm lost. IT could be because i have not finished my coffee this morning but, i have no idea what you're talking about :T

 

 

 For the lols is not enough to keep up an argument with someone who has over 200 days into his wizard methinks. But that might just be me. This is besides the point, anyways.

 

So you know a thing or two because they are geared wizards? That's great. Again, besides the point.

 

Then you clearly don't know how the abilities work, if it's always easy to "get something off". That or you're not hitting shit. Dunno. I main Wizard and have done so since the start of the game. I play the class quite seriously, as if it's my life even. So I might have a bit of biased/different understanding in regards to doing every single fight and war thus far on my main, Wizard.

 

I do this based on the information you provide and  the lack of knowledge regarding this game that yo u display.
So yes. I came to the conclusion that you know nothing, since you clearly don't know that you should be calling out "WIZARD/WITCH" every time you even see them, since being able to notice one inside your group was a new concept to you, i can quote you if you want. 

That 1v1 shit mentality is why I came to the conclusion that you're unskilled. You should never assume you're going to be in a 1v1 situation even if you are going into a "Dagger/assassination" role during group PvP, as aware groups will see you and due to your supposed positioning, jump you.
Our wizards/Witches don't do this anyways. If we're going to assassinate someone, we intend to take the entire group with us, with a bang.. all at once and as synchronized as possible.  Your RP skills seem on point though. Mad rep for that. But I'm talking actual war here.

 

Ever consider it's because they are skilled? As for the rest of that i don't know what you're on about.

... 263 DP is below glass cannon norm DP... See this is what I was -----ing saying. You kids that stack AP and have crap all for DP expect to live no. No. Screw off with that.
IF you have NO DP ACCESSORIES AT ALL YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE SURVIVING ANY MORE THAN THE DAMAGE YOU DEAL TO KILL OTHER PLAYERS AND THEIR TTL.

 No.

Why does it seem fine to you that in your mind, someone that can pull off 240PLUS ap  should be viable in DP as well are you kidding me.
Get out of here glass cannon.

 

I don't care about my score I care about winning the god damn war.
If I've personally offended you, it was not my intention and I do apologize about that. I can be rather aggressive with arguments at times.

 

define what you consider as equal gear, cause if i'm fighting a 500gs anything in my 500 gs set, in a duel, I win unless it's another witchard.
What do you mean by equal gear? Do you mean Exact same stats? because if so then duh... LOL. THAT IS WHAT WE CALL SKILL REQUIREMENTS. You don't always NEED to be close enough to get kd by your enemy,  and if you are serious about 1v1 you'd know the mass -----ery that most classes do when they 1v1. Cmon dude, do better.

 

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Tldr

u're going to deep bro ! Bdo PvP mechanics arent that deep #PreyForAcc #HiddenStatsWtFLOL #YolOhitbox !

Btw thx i lol'ed when i read "IS WHAT WE CALL SKILL REQUIREMENTS" (just read your last sentences , ty for caps you get my attention !) ....

"You don't always NEED to be close enough to get kd by your enemy" true !

still not understand why ppl search the "truth" when you play a game ruled by RNG in every dam point of its gameplay :x, i love Bdo for what it is a well made med fan sims MMo with some cool PvP feature but it's far from a skilled game (mostly like all Mmo but this one is clearly at the bottom of the list due to RnG aspect !

Btw dude i was just trolling dont take it so seriously :P, again i love Bdo, i love PvP, but the lack of real data to make some real statement make me laught when i see "nerf this or this or maybe this" (i'm a Wizzard aswell, playing since release) !

I think dude, to sum up, you'd just have to say => dont go full ap its not viable ! 

 

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I'm getting around to your other posts but, so it's here when i get to it, can you provide in depth examples of this? Wizards "one comboing"  each class with full tri loadouts and with 150 mainhand/awk(i assume) AP, for the sake of science and backing, since you're using it in your argument.

I can not test this myself at this time as I'm currently at work, but I assume you have examples and data to show, since you are using it as backing in your argument.

I'm going to go read those other posts now.

Hellfire, Cataclysm, Water Sphere, Flame Knot, Water Sphere, Aqua Bomb, Aqua Jail Explosion.

Stiffness, Stun, Bound, Grapple, Down Smash.

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this shit still going on? considering we still got WAR, ZERK, RANGER, ETC. which outclasses both witch and wiz in a fight by such huge amounts its laugheble, this thread is a joke.

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In all cases? Please provide more elaborate information. You want my class nerfed you're going to have to do more work than "the block gets hit for 85% of the classes in the game in 1-2 kills", which honestly doesn't even make sense to me.

DP is not irrelevant, if you honestly believe this, you either need to get educated or stop arguing, as you're misinformed.

 I don't see it as such.I think your problem is, what you consider "Balance" is being able to dish out heavy damage and take moderate damage. There has to be a tradeoff. For those of you who choose the route of "Destroy Thy Infidels", your tradeoff is your survivability. 
That is the balance. Is it "Perfect"? No. Needs tweaking? Of course.
Is it absolutely unbalanced? Nah.
Are you people helping provide substantial data to help balance it? Nope.

I'm sorry i'm lost. IT could be because i have not finished my coffee this morning but, i have no idea what you're talking about :T

 

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In all cases where the person is decently geared.... More information? What more do you need. You seem very salty at this point. As I already said, I don't want Witch and Wizard nerfed i want the other classes buffed so that there can be true balance without everybody getting their feelings hurt, as you clearly just have.

At around 240 -250 ap dp is irrelevant because as i already stated, those top 7-6 classes will one shot you regardless of your dp, regardless of your class. THAT IS AN ISSUE. For classes that are supposed to be tanky, so either give them the tools to do so, or yes they deserve to be able to 1 shot everybody like all the other classes. Especially classes like kuno and ninja who should 1 shot people faster than a mere wizard/ witch considering they are supposed to be assassins. When you have a skill that can hit 10 people it should not kill someone as fast as a skill that [was intended] to be used to kill a single target quickly. THAT is balance. 

I already told you what I consider balance to be in my previous posts, if you need to go back and read what I said feel free. Balance is not gimping the kits of other classes, then just saying that they take more skill to play. This is the case for Tamer/Ninja/Kuno/Valk/Maehwa. When classes start to have muddy weaknesses that are not clear, or have ways to cover said weaknesses reliably that is when they start becoming the OP classes.

If you are lost that is your own doing because I have been perfectly clear what I thought of Witch and Wizard in relation to other classes. If they do nerf Witch/Wizard [depending on how] then i would say most of those top 6-7 classes deserve nerfs too because in my eyes they all have the same issue manifested in different ways. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

.. 263 DP is below glass cannon norm DP... See this is what I was -----ing saying. You kids that stack AP and have crap all for DP expect to live no. No. Screw off with that.
IF you have NO DP ACCESSORIES AT ALL YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE SURVIVING ANY MORE THAN THE DAMAGE YOU DEAL TO KILL OTHER PLAYERS AND THEIR TTL.

 No.

Why does it seem fine to you that in your mind, someone that can pull off 240PLUS ap  should be viable in DP as well are you kidding me.
Get out of here glass cannon.

^ THIS a billion trillion times.Your build is defined by your accesories in this game,if you go full AP accesories,your a GLASS CANNON even if your tet/pen armor peices.The best thing you can do by being pen is been "abit more tanky" when facing the mid tier of AP players but if your facing the top 230+AP in full tet in armors is maybe a hit more in survivability.If your you want extreme firepower youll be extremely frail or "semi frail" if your rocking a mix of tet and pen pieces,only way to get in the tanky route is rocking hybrid build and extrremely tanky by going full dp accesories.theya re two sides of the same coin while hybrid is in the middle.

Edited by LinaCrysta
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If you are trying to push for 250 DP being valid in any PvP scenario in this game, I'm done having an argument with you, as there isn't one.

I'm tired of you ap stacking glass cannon  kids wanting to devastate everything while not getting destroyed yourself. 
If you want to live longer you're going to need to sacrifice some of those AP accessories for some DP lyfe shit.
If you don't think it's worth it and AP is the only way to go, good on you. Stop expecting to live longer than anyone you kill.

Have a nice day.

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Posted (edited)

 

If you are trying to push for 250 DP being valid in any PvP scenario in this game, I'm done having an argument with you, as there isn't one.

I'm tired of you ap stacking glass cannon  kids wanting to devastate everything while not getting destroyed yourself. 
If you want to live longer you're going to need to sacrifice some of those AP accessories for some DP lyfe shit.
If you don't think it's worth it and AP is the only way to go, good on you. Stop expecting to live longer than anyone you kill.

Have a nice day.

You are clearly either in your emotions and got your feelings hurt by some accusatory idiot in this thread. Or have not read a single word I said.

You still get two shot at 300 + dp by anybody around 250 ap tested and proven. Dp is only a second thought in this game as it is. Refer to the valk fourms on 300+ 400+ Dp vs ap if you are too shocked to believe my word.

Calm yourself. Stop replying rashly to people who are trying to have a real dialogue about class balance and not just screaming WIZARD WITCH OPOPOPOP.

Edited by KeenEye

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i dont understand this post, are you drunk? did you at least finish the video?

It's really goddamned simple.  YOU linked a video because it sounded smart to you.   It only sounded smart to you, b/c it was well scripted and had the "oooh Ahhh" effect of being a tightly edited video that fed into your pre-existing belief structure rather than just piece of text that immediately challenges said structure.  So you didn't do the extra step of rational thought required first to make sure that it actually applied to This specific situation 

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If you are trying to push for 250 DP being valid in any PvP scenario in this game, I'm done having an argument with you, as there isn't one.

I'm tired of you ap stacking glass cannon  kids wanting to devastate everything while not getting destroyed yourself. 
If you want to live longer you're going to need to sacrifice some of those AP accessories for some DP lyfe shit.
If you don't think it's worth it and AP is the only way to go, good on you. Stop expecting to live longer than anyone you kill.

Have a nice day.

I don't agree with this. As someone who has a had a 350+ dp witch, dp is garbage.  once you come across 220+ level 60+ people, at 263dp you die in 1 cc and at 350+dp you... also die in 1 CC lol. except at 220+ap yourself you actually help, vs at 120/350+ you are a heal bot. 
I mean that's fine, if you want to be a heal bot, but lets not act like dp build witches/wiz are anything more than slightly annoying (at best) in high end pvp.

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