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Bad pvp system

73 posts in this topic

Posted

What weird attitude am I defending?  What is so weird about saying "People should NOT be able to karma bomb/cheat their way into a spot"?  A change to the current system should benefit EVERYONE.

Whats "cheating" into a spot exactly, if the spot doesn't belong to anyone? since noone is entitled to anything, neither karmabombers NOR the pk's? Why should killing another player, who didn't actually have "ownership" on a spot either, grant the pk the new "ownership" on it?

How could a system that would allow the few top players to control and keep top grind spots 24/7 without much consequences benefit everyone?

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Whats "cheating" into a spot exactly, if the spot doesn't belong to anyone? since noone is entitled to anything, neither karmabombers NOR the pk's? Why should killing another player, who didn't actually have "ownership" on a spot either, grant the pk the new "ownership" on it?

How could a system that would allow the few top players to control and keep top grind spots 24/7 without much consequences benefit everyone?

You simply have no idea what I am trying to explain, so there is no point continuing this "discussion".

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Posted (edited)

The actual bad pvp is the games obsession with gear, if you dont have +15 gear or tet boss gear then quit bdo, unlike other mmos gear is the onlything that matters in this game, in most mmos if you are higher lvl and better skilled you can defeat almost any player even if they are wearing full pvpsets but in this game i can have a 5yr old pressing auto atk kill you in full boss gear while u do 0 dmg  and die in 3 hits even though you are way better skilled.

Edited by Gackt
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Posted

You simply have no idea what I am trying to explain, so there is no point continuing this "discussion".

i know exactly what youre trying to explain. You just fail to see that its just your personal opinion on the matter and not fact, and im trying to explain you why your opinion on this is biased and hypocritical (not just yours, almost everyone's opinion of those who want a change to the karmasystem).

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Posted (edited)

i know exactly what youre trying to explain. You just fail to see that its just your personal opinion on the matter and not fact, and im trying to explain you why your opinion on this is biased and hypocritical (not just yours, almost everyone's opinion of those who want a change to the karmasystem).

ah, justifying bullies because you dislike bullies make sense as you're just the other side of the same shit, bot sides have a point and both sides are just hypocrites:D

Edited by cann0nf0dder

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Posted

ah, justifying bullies because you dislike bullies make sense as you're just the other side of the same shit, bot sides have a point and both sides are just hypocrites:D

i like how everyone on the forums assumes im a karmagriefer (and i used to be months ago when i was still in pleb gear and had no other option to get a spot, just like probably everyone did in his first weeks or months). In fact i have fought over spots alot and even started a few wars because of it, i have ended at -karma at times and been in prison.

 

But im not whining about karmagriefing on the forums, and i dont think the karmasystem should be changed (atleast not in a direction most people here wish for). For all those things that happened to me i have only myself to blame (and learn from). And even with lvl 59 and 200+ ap now, i dont think there should ever be a system that rewards the top-tier players and punishes and limits everyone else.

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to all guya crying about PK on grind spots : if you're not strong enough, you don't deserve the ressource that's all... i mean... it's life guys... you wanna get the beat withput farming the worst like we all did... when i'm on farming spot and someone comes we always find a way to duel and the loser leaves, even if he's a freaking retard warrior player i will leave the spot that's what everybody should do instead of karma bombing... but to people prefer being je*ks and just come back forever

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to all guya crying about PK on grind spots : if you're not strong enough, you don't deserve the ressource that's all... i mean... it's life guys... you wanna get the beat withput farming the worst like we all did... when i'm on farming spot and someone comes we always find a way to duel and the loser leaves, even if he's a freaking retard warrior player i will leave the spot that's what everybody should do instead of karma bombing... but to people prefer being je*ks and just come back forever

I've not come across anyone yet, who's willing to duel for a spot. The one person to offer me a duel, waited until I started typing a response and PK'ed me when I was typing :P   It's easier for people to come back and karma bomb, since there are no penalties for doing it.

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Posted

I've not come across anyone yet, who's willing to duel for a spot. The one person to offer me a duel, waited until I started typing a response and PK'ed me when I was typing :P   It's easier for people to come back and karma bomb, since there are no penalties for doing it.

 I've stopped asking now. Most people who lose will then just come back and start greifing.

Even in the desert, it's just better to grief until the other guy pks you and then you just come back to send him to jail and the spot is yours.

The most effective PvP you can have in the open world is to grief first. Sad days

 

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Posted (edited)

Encouraging someone to karma bomb is disgusting, doesn't matter if it's effective or not. 

If you see someone grinding an area OP, ask to group, if they decline, change channels. Iron Mines of all places should not be crowded but if it is you can still grind Manes/Elrics/Sausans/Helms, Helms is almost always empty now. I haven't seen a person there in months, and it's decent XP/Money. Alternatively if you don't want to leave then flag up on them, if you kill them and they come back wait for them to flag on you.

5 kills = just over 300k karma which will drop them into negative, generally if you're doing it at a grind spot it'll need a 6th kill because they grind karma in between fights. But no one is stupid enough to go negative so karma bombing rarely works, just causes people to grind over the top of you preventing you from getting loot and XP. It's also the dirtiest form of griefing you can do in game and you're bound to get a ton of hate from it. 

Well and he said, if he comes to a spot that is occupied, he moves on. But when he is alone at a spot and someone comes around, claiming "my spot, move", then it is in NO WAY any better then karma bombing. Entitled wannabes are just as disgusting as karma bombers.

Btw the dirtiest form of griefing is to get someone to low HP (like 10%), cc and leave the player to die to mobs... losing exp, crystals and trade items in the process.

10/10 boys you've created a monster...

I find it very funny that i read these stories of players getting griefed but whenever i make an alt and follow the same grind path as them i encounter maybe 1/2 people on my way to 55, and they either ask for a party or run past me. Every grindspot up until susans is uncontested from my experience (even at peak times). 

I am aware that this is anecdotal, but i think i should have at least encountered this kind of behavior at least once and yet.... 

Luck or no luck? ^^

I do not have a preferred class or main... I play all classes and all are 57... I level up once, switch to next class, level up, switch and so on... I gues you can image, I spent a lot of time in Mediah geting all my chars to 56... Abandoned Iron Mine, Manes, Helms, Elrics, Sausans... and I experienced what you describe, and I experienced a lot of fighting over spots.

There are times, where you see "virtualy" noone for weeks on end, and then out of a sudden a player pops up and claims "my spot" and goes on with PKing.

In November... I were doing Bashim... 3 Weeks, each day a few minutes, and there was no other player around. In the 4th week like a dozen of players came to the Bashim... you know, at Sausans there is the ocasional "talkactive" player who want to form a party or asks you to leave. But Bashim.. 50% of the players I encountered just attacked on sight. No questions asked.

I then moved my chars to Shakatu to do the Gahaz, pretty much the same. FOr 3 weeks I saw maybe 1 or 2 other players who were doing their own stuff. And then, on the 4th week the area became crowded, with around 25% of the players attacking me on sight, without saying anything. Now, one week later, the place is empty again.

It's a "survival of the fittest" mentality, where better players can come into your area and take it from you.  You can fight back off course, but you are unlikely to win.  You can then either find another spot, change channels or grief them.  Now it is griefing, if you are deliberately trying to mess up someone's rotation and put them into negative karma you are griefing them.  It's the horrid system they have unfortunately put in place and people WILL and DO exploit it.  I've been karma griefed several times today by people with no indention of fighting me and every intention of stealing/ruining my rotation.  They know up to a certain point, I will not and cannot do anything about it so am forced to move.

The system needs to change, it discourages actual PvP and favours the griefer.

Not everyone playing BDO is either unemployed or a school kid with mass amounts of time. Working people usualy have like 30minutes a day to play BDO. If then a PvPer comes around and kills, this working player have to spend 10minutes of his 30 to actualy return to the spot from the node or find another spot. To them this PvP is griefing, it may not be griefing for you, because you have tons of time. PvP is fine but only IF both sides agree to a PvP fight.

This is a senless discussion that will never bear fruits.

To the PvP fraction the skillless, incompetent carebears are scum.

To the PvE fraction the murderous bastards are scum.

And no matter what argument any side comes up with, the other side will never be convinced. Few will understand the arguments, but still remain in their fraction bubble.

All everyone can do is to accept what happens, PvEplayers get PKed and PKs get karma bombed. Live with it.

 

Edit: a short story...

I had one character at the Sausans... on wednesday, one hour before maintenance, I logged in, as usual nooone around. So I started farming... after one hour the wagon was full, char was full, it was 9:55 CET and so I logged out. After the maintenance I logged back in and just wanted to take my wagon and go to Altinova. But could not, the second I could see something on the screen and got control about my char, my Tamer got PKed. Why? No idea. I respawned at the Node by the sea (Sausan Garrison Wharf) and moved to the wagon. My Heilang was not even out, weapons stashed... half way to the wagon I got PKed again by another player. Why? No idea.

If someone is at a spot and I notice that person, I move on. If I see noone, I start farming, when I meet a player then, who was obsiously already there, I say sorry and move on. If some player just kills me because he thinks I could be an a*hole who will not leave, but was actualy an a*hole himself who killed without asking, then he has screwed up and I will return to the spot and keep on farming and eventualy dying (thus karma bombing). Sorry to bring it to you, but a*holes do not exist only on the PvE side of the coin.

Edited by Valtaya
added something
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Posted

Not everyone playing BDO is either unemployed or a school kid with mass amounts of time. Working people usualy have like 30minutes a day to play BDO. If then a PvPer comes around and kills, this working player have to spend 10minutes of his 30 to actualy return to the spot from the node or find another spot.

Just gonna say this... If all you have is 30mins a day and you think you can enjoy BDO in a non-afk Lifeskill manner, you'll be wildly let down. BDO is a game that does reward and require a lot of time and energy to properly compete. Hell, if I only have 30 minutes or even an hour around prime time if I'm grinding it'll be nowhere near Sausans or Pirates. Why? Because when my time is limited I don't have the ability to deal with curveballs that the game throws your way like bombers or level 54s running around disrupting what was a nice rotation.

The vast majority of so-called "MMORPGs" out there are built for people who don't like penalties and do like being given BiS gear for a 30min dungeon run. Let us keep that toxic and destructive mentality far away from BDO where actually playing the MMORPG like a MMORPG is still a thing.

At the end of the day ask to party. Just ask. Some people will ignore you, some will attack you, some will just say "no". But some people like the company and don't mind. I'll kill you if you try to take my rotation, and I will show no mercy. However, if you even just ask I'll be more willing to group or even (as I've gotten into the habit of doing) give a little whisper so whoever was nice and asked for a group (and I said no for one reason or another) knows when I'm done with the spot they wanted.

And frankly finding someone grinding for more than like 2 hours isn't very common unless at peak, peak times. Off-time grinding is actually my biggest way to avoid these kinds of issues. 

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Posted

Hi,

 

Lets start with this im fairly new to this game but not new to mmorpg's. Over 10 years of playing mmorpgs i've not never seen such douche pvp community. Or not necessary pvp community but griefing.

Im atm 55 with low gear about +100 AP and DB. No matter where i go there is some douche bag starting to grief and kill me because "im stealing his mobs"

You dont usually get attacked unless you go to Sausans or Pirates without a party, yes they will bully you if your attack is low.. they can tell because it takes u forever to kill a mob while they kill it in 4 ~ 5 hits

The PVP mechanics are not too bad, the only complaint i really have is the ranger & zerker grab distance.. once i was riding on my horse from Altinova to Bheg spawn, and i was knocked off my horse by some zerker (yes i went FLYING), this dude dismounted and grabbed me from idk what the distance was but i was getting smashed on the ground about 6 or 7 times before i was dead.. didnt bother fighting back because i didnt feel like it and he had way more AP anyway

you will run into alot of assholes in this game, but you will also run into alot of nice people in this game too.. its all RNG really.. RNG plays a big part in this game whether its catching fishes, opening laventia shiny boxes, getting an ogre ring from an ogre (good luck), black stoning your gears from DUO to TRI, etc

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Posted (edited)

Not everyone playing BDO is either unemployed or a school kid with mass amounts of time. Working people usualy have like 30minutes a day to play BDO. If then a PvPer comes around and kills, this working player have to spend 10minutes of his 30 to actualy return to the spot from the node or find another spot. To them this PvP is griefing, it may not be griefing for you, because you have tons of time. PvP is fine but only IF both sides agree to a PvP fight.

Great job at making an assumption that I'm a no-lifer in this game.  I have a job a play for 1-2hrs a night at a push.  PvP is part of this game, you cannot avoid it or ignore it.  If someone decides to engage in PvP at a farm spot, explain to me how that is griefing?  Your assuming that everyone sits in this game 16 hours a day?  There are normal people with normal gear who understand this concept and are fine with it, so why is it griefing?  Is it the PvP'ers fault that the other player only has 30 minutes of time and is in Sausans with 100AP? Nope.  It's neither players fault, what they SHOULD have done is split the servers at launch, PvE and PvP. Simple. 

Edited by Cyrus Glitch

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Posted

i like how everyone on the forums assumes im a karmagriefer (and i used to be months ago when i was still in pleb gear and had no other option to get a spot, just like probably everyone did in his first weeks or months). In fact i have fought over spots alot and even started a few wars because of it, i have ended at -karma at times and been in prison.

 

But im not whining about karmagriefing on the forums, and i dont think the karmasystem should be changed (atleast not in a direction most people here wish for). For all those things that happened to me i have only myself to blame (and learn from). And even with lvl 59 and 200+ ap now, i dont think there should ever be a system that rewards the top-tier players and punishes and limits everyone else.

You don't need to karma bomb to get a spot, you need to karmabomb to keep a spot unless you are geared enough to fight back. I've karma bombed before and I love karma bombing. It's a great mechanic I don't think should go away, and indeed should actually be more harsh and penalizing than it already is.

 

But the way I do it is, if someones already at a rotation, I go somewhere else. I change channels, I find a different rotation, one that's not already being used, and I take that. I don't just find a rotation I want, see someone there, then decide to karma bomb them until they leave and I get it for myself. That's a huge waste of my time. If I'm grinding a rotation that I took for myself that no one else was using before I got there and some asshole comes along and decides, "lul it's mine now, pecking order B****" Then screw them I'll waste their time, kill their mobs, and karma bomb them til they leave.

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Posted (edited)

Well and he said, if he comes to a spot that is occupied, he moves on. But when he is alone at a spot and someone comes around, claiming "my spot, move", then it is in NO WAY any better then karma bombing. Entitled wannabes are just as disgusting as karma bombers.

Btw the dirtiest form of griefing is to get someone to low HP (like 10%), cc and leave the player to die to mobs... losing exp, crystals and trade items in the process.

Luck or no luck? ^^

I do not have a preferred class or main... I play all classes and all are 57... I level up once, switch to next class, level up, switch and so on... I gues you can image, I spent a lot of time in Mediah geting all my chars to 56... Abandoned Iron Mine, Manes, Helms, Elrics, Sausans... and I experienced what you describe, and I experienced a lot of fighting over spots.

There are times, where you see "virtualy" noone for weeks on end, and then out of a sudden a player pops up and claims "my spot" and goes on with PKing.

In November... I were doing Bashim... 3 Weeks, each day a few minutes, and there was no other player around. In the 4th week like a dozen of players came to the Bashim... you know, at Sausans there is the ocasional "talkactive" player who want to form a party or asks you to leave. But Bashim.. 50% of the players I encountered just attacked on sight. No questions asked.

I then moved my chars to Shakatu to do the Gahaz, pretty much the same. FOr 3 weeks I saw maybe 1 or 2 other players who were doing their own stuff. And then, on the 4th week the area became crowded, with around 25% of the players attacking me on sight, without saying anything. Now, one week later, the place is empty again.

Not everyone playing BDO is either unemployed or a school kid with mass amounts of time. Working people usualy have like 30minutes a day to play BDO. If then a PvPer comes around and kills, this working player have to spend 10minutes of his 30 to actualy return to the spot from the node or find another spot. To them this PvP is griefing, it may not be griefing for you, because you have tons of time. PvP is fine but only IF both sides agree to a PvP fight.

This is a senless discussion that will never bear fruits.

That's why there has always been a distinction between PvP and PK.

The first implies that both parties agree and are ready to fight. The most conveniant is to do it in instanced zone where you choose to go because you want to pvp. In most games gear is more or less synchronized to minimize the advantage it can provides over an other player. Cause Pvp is the Competitive aspect of fight between players, it can't suffer of any disadvantage in one of the involved parties. (You can't play a competitive football match where one team start with only 9 players, and you can't proclaim a Boxer "New World Champion" if he just defeated a Random guy who was just looking for his glasses on the ring)

The second (the "so-called" Open world pvp most of the time) only being the term that involves the death of a player by an other. You were afk and i killed you ? that's Pk. You're farming monsters and i attack and kill you ? that's Pk. You're just standing still or greeting me and i suddenly attack and kill you ? that's Pk. I send you a private message to ask for a duel, you agree and then you kill me ? That's Pvp.

There is too some case where OwPvp is real pvp so far as those zones are specially interesting for the pvp aspect they provides. In clear... players come in those non-instanced pvp zones just to fight against other players. Not to grind, not to kill a Boss... so they won't be caught by surprise while doing anything else than looking for a fight. You don't afk or start to rp in those zones or you're clearly trolling.

(excuse the bad English)

 

 

 

Edited by Xaoyu

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Posted

You don't need to karma bomb to get a spot, you need to karmabomb to keep a spot unless you are geared enough to fight back. I've karma bombed before and I love karma bombing. It's a great mechanic I don't think should go away, and indeed should actually be more harsh and penalizing than it already is.

 

But the way I do it is, if someones already at a rotation, I go somewhere else. I change channels, I find a different rotation, one that's not already being used, and I take that. I don't just find a rotation I want, see someone there, then decide to karma bomb them until they leave and I get it for myself. That's a huge waste of my time. If I'm grinding a rotation that I took for myself that no one else was using before I got there and some asshole comes along and decides, "lul it's mine now, pecking order B****" Then screw them I'll waste their time, kill their mobs, and karma bomb them til they leave.

I've never karma bombed but if I were to ever do it then I'd use your reasoning. I always move on if someone else is in an area and try not to disturb them. Wish I could say the same for most others, but going by what I have seen in game and the posts on this forum, clearly there's a lot of entitlement within this "pvp" crowd.

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I've been thinking this every time I read complaints about "Karma bombing." You don't have to kill them - there are many other ways to resolve the situation. I'd bet in most cases you could just group with them and share the xp. Otherwise you could always reverse karma bomb by letting them kill you I suppose, or even go elsewhere. 

Except the karma bomber doesn't flag and initiate a fight, they just grief your efficiency/rate so Reverse Karma bombing isn't going to happen.

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BDO currently caters to the passive aggressive. Im geared enough, if i want a spot im not flagging up, instead im just going to keep on harrassing the other guy killing random groups all around him, generally outfarming the little guy at sausans untill he either gets frustrated and leaves, or flags and gets killed.

In the desert, im not flagging first. im going to greif, outfarm the other guy till he kills me, then come back and send him to jail.

BDO pvp, Passive agressive to win. Worse shit ever.

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BDO currently caters to the passive aggressive. Im geared enough, if i want a spot im not flagging up, instead im just going to keep on harrassing the other guy killing random groups all around him, generally outfarming the little guy at sausans untill he either gets frustrated and leaves, or flags and gets killed.

In the desert, im not flagging first. im going to greif, outfarm the other guy till he kills me, then come back and send him to jail.

BDO pvp, Passive agressive to win. Worse shit ever.

Pvp centred game yo... /sarcasm

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Posted

"Karma Bombing", is the term I think, that one can do. Just keep popping up, and let them PK on you, and kill you. Eventually, their karma will be negative, and everyone, including other snotty PK'ers will show up, and self adjust.

 

 

Image result for here we go meme

 

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"Karma Bombing", is the term I think, that one can do. Just keep popping up, and let them PK on you, and kill you. Eventually, their karma will be negative, and everyone, including other snotty PK'ers will show up, and self adjust.

Now, granted, its not fun losing crystals to death, but, its a boat load of fun seeing a negative karma PK'er getting pasted in a town.

But, I will say, there is a design problem, like with the awakening skill for Wiz/Witch being DEAD-LAST, has encouraged PK'ers to come out of the wood work when they see a wiz/witch, still. Cause they know, if nothing else, the wiz/witch is likely to have weaker AWK gear, and not be as good in pvp with awk skills.

 

You don't lose gems in pvp, ut if you're negative karma and you die in pvp then you have a chance at breaking gems.

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I love reading these. So much of these all over the forums. People keep making these and the Devs still don't care lol. A whole year of this and still no responses. You guys need to get the point already. 

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Great job at making an assumption that I'm a no-lifer in this game.  I have a job a play for 1-2hrs a night at a push.  PvP is part of this game, you cannot avoid it or ignore it.  If someone decides to engage in PvP at a farm spot, explain to me how that is griefing?  Your assuming that everyone sits in this game 16 hours a day?  There are normal people with normal gear who understand this concept and are fine with it, so why is it griefing?  Is it the PvP'ers fault that the other player only has 30 minutes of time and is in Sausans with 100AP? Nope.  It's neither players fault, what they SHOULD have done is split the servers at launch, PvE and PvP. Simple. 

I wouldn't call it griefing , no. But then again I don't think I'm griefing either if I find an empty spot in my level-relevant area and stay put even if someone way better geared tries to make me go away by repeatedly killing me. I chanell-swap when I'm looking for empty spots.. I don't chanell swap after I found one just because someone else came there after me. I'm not just trying to get killed though... I do actually try to fight back, I'm just very shit at it and tend to get killed. Also when the level-difference is high, don't thin I have much actual changes of hurting them. But I'm am trying at least to figure out ways to survive as long as possible.

Also me being there is not stealing anyones money... the gold and loot is yours once it's in you mail or inventory. (Though I don't kill other peoples pulled enemies out of courtesy) Otherwise I could say the same and make the point that all those high level players that are farming in a considerably lower-level areas compared to their own level are stealing my XP. I don't say that though, cos I know it's the game and the way it's set that make those high level players wanting to farm at the same places. But if you go into a kid's play ground to hang around, can you really fault the kids for being too noisy when they play?

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