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Too much RNG, not enough rewards for Hard work


61 posts in this topic

Posted

I have played this game since launch and their is one thing this game does brilliantly.... punish hard working, grinding players that spend hours, days,weeks months accumulating silver and items for it to be all wiped away in seconds through BDO's toxic cancerous RNG system. I'm sorry but the whole game is TOO RNG and not based on true rewards based on time but into the game and hard work.

Gear Enhancement system - what a joke - who ever thought of this was obviously drunk or on drugs or both or really hates gamer's or like's watching gamer's suffering, spend hours and hours grinding for top gear, only for it to fail with loads fail stacks, no guide as to how many fail stacks is required and even punish by reducing gear level if it fails at a higher level. I have read online about FS, looked at countless player guides and reviews as to what they think, spoken to other gamers and one thing I have found, everyone has a different opinion on this, no facts, and no facts being given by BDO, its like gambling with Russian roulette, this model might work in South Korea where gamer's spend their whole life in front of a screen but here in the west it doesn't. I spend at least 12 hours everyday on this and still nowhere near got good gear, and before anyone says it, saying "git gud" plays no part in a RNG system, its totally random so no matter how good you are you have the same chance as a new start which is ridiculous. I have a friend who got TET on just 10 FS! TEN! and he has been playing it 4 months, I have been playing it almost a year and have failed TET with over 100 FS 8 times!. How the hell is that fair? he doesn't even play it half the time I do? I feel like ive been kicked in the nuts 8 times after being so loyal and dedicated to this game, how are you rewarding me for my hard work? my dedication? how are you motivating me to continue to put money into this game, the RNG system punishes me, how is that good for you to make more money?

Rewards boxes - fixed - don't tell me they aren't, they are, I've guess 90% accuracy with most of my boxes because the chances of getting anything good are minimal - boxes need EQUAL chances of all rewards, not heavily weighted to the crap like they are now.

Pet breeding - again - totally RNG - needs fixing to make it more equal

Accessory enhancement - now i know I'm not the only one thinks BDO kicks you while your own on this one. Not only is it near impossible to get anywhere with it, you fail, okay but then you take away BOTH items too? what the hell is the batter with you BDO? do u truly hate hard working gamer's? same with uniforms.

You need to do something, there is just too many punishments in this game to get anywhere, its so frustrating, grinding for weeks only for it to be all taken away in a blink of an eye.

The progression system needs to be based on hard work and time put into the game, or this RNG system needs to be revised with clear guides as to how it works, stating at a certain level the percentage increases, we are just left in the dark on this game.

Your RNG gaming model only creates dissatisfied gamer's, with a very small minority liking it because the RNG luck angel has blessed them.

Please give this some serious thought. As people approach this wall more and more gamer's are just going to stop investing since they will think there is no point.

Your a game company, a company who wants to make money, you want gamer's to invest in you yet this RNG system gives no incentive to continue to invest if you constantly punish players like this.

Please think about this..

Many Thanks

P.S - only constructive comments please, flaming, trolling, insulting and abusive comments will be reported... many thanks in advance.

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Posted

bdo is a rng game

its too late to change any of its core rng aspects this late into the game

if you can't handle it then leave

and doesn't the feeling of finally succeeding give you that satisfaction

and doesn't the feeling of finally succeeding give you that satisfaction

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Posted

bdo is a rng game

its too late to change any of its core rng aspects this late into the game

if you can't handle it then leave

and doesn't the feeling of finally succeeding give you that satisfaction

1) Never too late. It wouldn't take much to tone down the RNG at all. Or provide an offset.

2) 'can't handle just leave'. A typical no brain statement. Sorry.

3) No it pisses me off at the silver spent. It pisses me off other do the same for cheaper. It pisses me off that I can try and upgrade and end up spending 100mil and ending up where I started.

4) Please go into the store next time and ask the cashier to roll a dice for the five customer in front of you buying the same item. Watch as all five roll a 1 on the dice and get to buy the the product you also want to buy for $1.00. Now your turn.... you roll a 4... sorry back of the line for you. "But I'm in a hurry!" you yell... next three customers roll and pay $1.00. Your turn again.... roll and it's a 6!  They charge you $250.00 for the same product because that's what a 6 means... but you must feel great satisfaction finally succeeding right?

Then all your mates tell you how they got the product for $1.00 and laugh because you had to pay $250.00. And they tell you how they could buy another product that you also want with the $249.00 they saved...

Yes mate you'd be so happy and happier when you have to work to raise the $249.00 and they are out partying and enjoying both their purchases...

Then someone asks where is Marcellio? He's grinding so he can buy gear... What a loser!

But hey is just RNG buddy.

 

 

 

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Posted

you're taking this way too far, using a store as an analogy with rolling a dice just shows how extreme you are making this.

everyone is in the same boat pal

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Posted

@Usurper sounds like the game is making you very stressful.  If you're feeling more stressed out than having fun then maybe BDO isn't for you.  People have been complaining about the rng for months and months, probably even after the game was launched.  Unfortunately rng is here to stay. I wish there was a better system but I do feel satisfaction when I successfully upgrade something even if it takes a hefty sum of silver.

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Posted (edited)

I agree with you in everything that is why I quit the game 2 months ago ^-^ I just log here on forum from time to time to feed my curiosity.

I also find this game super boring =P

Edited by xBlackTeaRx

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Posted (edited)

Well I understand your frustration, some days you get lucky, other days it's just plain frustration. But it's a game that is not meant to be played to get the best gear in a couple of months and then throw it away and get the new best armor that is released. 

Just think about how the market would end up looking, it would be flooded with items that no one uses and everyone would have PEN gear. Everyone would bash each other once or twice a week in a war and logout for the rest of the week, no one would be really grinding except some people trying hard to get to 62 to get that one last marginal gain to have an advantage. If you change the rng it would influence alot of other mechanics in the game that would need change to get everything working again. Market system, dropchances, crafting system, especially bosses. It would just break the game as a hole, player would leave because their hard work is suddenly worth nothing. Other players that stay get bored soon because they got it all and play other games till next content patch. The game maybe will get new player because it's a friendlier environment to achieve progress, but it probably will also reduce the amount of active players because they don't have anything to do anymore. BDO would need a full restart of the game from zero, don't think that would be a good idea. 


You probably care alot for several reasons and still play it because of them. Maybe focus more on fun parts, reduce the times you enchant per month to 1 or 2 times and get out all the frustration at these times. And do something afterwards that relieves you of the stress and anger, whatever that would be ;)

Go find out how to make passive and semi-passive money, save up and maybe get lucky sniping a cool accessoire that you wanted without the frustration of destroying it. And accept that this game is not fair, but maybe you get also lucky on one of these days and others are jelous :) 

Edited by xanasago

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Posted

you're taking this way too far, using a store as an analogy with rolling a dice just shows how extreme you are making this.

everyone is in the same boat pal

 

Marcellio, your response lets us know you completely didn't comprehend what I wrote.

 

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Posted

This is a huge reason I'm glad I've setup a big passive income setup and trade style empire.  So far over the course of this event I've lost, net value, over a billion working on accessories.  That's not what I spent, and some gains were made, but over all the losses were pretty bad.  If that actually represented 100 hours of my time spent in this chair flushed down the drain I don't think I could play this game.  How pure grinders do that shit is just beyond me.

I'd be pretty okay if they'd just increase the cap on failstacks counting towards all enhancement levels towards 50%.  It can still be a shitload of stacks to reach that 50%, but having capped low values on higher end enhancements just makes failures pretty soulcrushing after a while.

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Posted

This is a huge reason I'm glad I've setup a big passive income setup and trade style empire.  So far over the course of this event I've lost, net value, over a billion working on accessories.  That's not what I spent, and some gains were made, but over all the losses were pretty bad.  If that actually represented 100 hours of my time spent in this chair flushed down the drain I don't think I could play this game.  How pure grinders do that shit is just beyond me.

I'd be pretty okay if they'd just increase the cap on failstacks counting towards all enhancement levels towards 50%.  It can still be a shitload of stacks to reach that 50%, but having capped low values on higher end enhancements just makes failures pretty soulcrushing after a while.

I know there are many answers or at least ways to address RNG, but even at 50/50 you can lose multiple times, let's say 7 before your win. If they made stones more expensive and a 50/50 blanket chance more people would be happier.

Anyway just a thought.

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Posted

I know there are many answers or at least ways to address RNG, but even at 50/50 you can lose multiple times, let's say 7 before your win. If they made stones more expensive and a 50/50 blanket chance more people would be happier.

Anyway just a thought.

Some inherent loss isn't an issue.  In fact loss is needed to build failstacks to get to the next tier of chance required.

The inherent issue is the extremely low chances of high end enhancing leads to exponentially more hours spent recovering.  Even if we account for 20m/hr income, to which they've regularly seemed to go after and nerf any non-grinding income that reaches 10m/hr down to around 5m/hr, at a 20-25% enhancement rate we're talking about a good 200-250 hours on average. 
At the end of the day there's only so many times you can flush 250 hours of your life down the drain before it just gets old.

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Posted

A game should be played because it's fun, not as work. When so many of us see playing the game as obligatory work, there's something wrong.

Perhaps it's because so people treat games like sports, where it's about winning, and you need to work hard at training to get good/geared enough to win. I don't have any solutions here, this is wrapped up tight in the psychology and sociology of it, and resists technical solutions.

Another big part of it is how much work one has to put in for the  Law of Large Numbers to create equitable outcomes. In any game with a random element to progression, there's a certain amount of play that has to occur before most players are in a similarly advanced progression band. If progression is achieved through a lot of low-investment, low-reward random trials, this will be achieved fairly early. Even if the individual probabilities are low, because there's so many of them, it doesn't take long.

Say it's about incrementally better gear drops in a traditional grinder, there might be a 1/100 chance of getting something useful, but when you get a drop from every mob killed, and kill 1000 mobs in a hour, everyone's likely to get a steady stream of good drops. But if there's a much lower rate of these trials, and each trial might yield a proportionately bigger reward, then in will take much longer for the players to find some degree of equitable level of progression. For instance, if every mob basically yielded a fixed payout in currency, and the currency from killing 100,000 mobs was enough to purchase an attempt to get a much better piece of gear, and if successful, that gear was 100x bigger step in progression than the incrementally better gear drop from my previous example, then two things happen. First, we'll get the same average expected progression over time; but the Law of Large Numbers tells us it'll take a lot longer in shear effort before each player gets close to the long term average and provides an equitable field.

Progress can be slow over weeks and months, and years -- in some ways they have to be for a game focused on progression to have longevity. Both ways of doing this can throttled to whatever rate the developer wants. The question is whether it's better to grant progress in lots of small, incremental steps, or in big chunks.

Games often do the latter because players prefer Jackpot! results over that steady incremental progress. Even systems that are mostly about incrementally better drops have exceptionally rare wildly good drops mixed in. Even our leveling systems are set up something like this, gaining a level is treated like a big event, with substantial increase in power and abilities. It could be treated like a numerical value, and gaining 0.00001% of a level could give proportionately increased, fractionally better hit points, attack probability, damage done, etc. But instead, we like to see improvements come in bigger steps.

I don't like these systems so much, which is why I didn't last in BDO past August (I am not gone, just non-active). The game's not broken; the developers have made conscious decisions on how to reward their targeted customer base, and a lot of us just don't fit it. It's sometimes described as an East vs West difference, but I'm not so sure; there's very basic human psychology at work. Perhaps our cultural attitudes towards rote activities and work/play have a big part in it too.

 

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Posted

you're taking this way too far, using a store as an analogy with rolling a dice just shows how extreme you are making this.

everyone is in the same boat pal

interesting video, I wonder, if you ever took the advice yourself. I have read a few of your posts and have yet to find any hint of an intelligent thought in one.

 

@Usurper sounds like the game is making you very stressful.  If you're feeling more stressed out than having fun then maybe BDO isn't for you.  People have been complaining about the rng for months and months, probably even after the game was launched.  Unfortunately rng is here to stay. I wish there was a better system but I do feel satisfaction when I successfully upgrade something even if it takes a hefty sum of silver.

I gues I were one of those people who told the BDO "makers" there is way too much RNG... heck, even the conversation mini game is based purely on RNG and even gathering... lol... first RNG to determine whether you get timber or just a log and a second RNG roll to find out how much... thats so.... insane. Whatever, despite the fact there is so much RNG, farming and grinding, there is nothing better out there, but it will and then PA is gone for good if they do not change something. I wonder if there is just one MMO game out there, that is played just because it is biiiiiiiiiig fun, most online games are played because of the people you meet and the friends you play with.

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Posted

the amity game is not rng, (well some of it is) but if you know how it works you win most the time as it's putting certain NPC knowledge together, its not hard.

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Posted

Well I understand your frustration, some days you get lucky, other days it's just plain frustration. But it's a game that is not meant to be played to get the best gear in a couple of months and then throw it away and get the new best armor that is released. 

Just think about how the market would end up looking, it would be flooded with items that no one uses and everyone would have PEN gear. Everyone would bash each other once or twice a week in a war and logout for the rest of the week, no one would be really grinding except some people trying hard to get to 62 to get that one last marginal gain to have an advantage. If you change the rng it would influence alot of other mechanics in the game that would need change to get everything working again. Market system, dropchances, crafting system, especially bosses. It would just break the game as a hole, player would leave because their hard work is suddenly worth nothing. Other players that stay get bored soon because they got it all and play other games till next content patch. The game maybe will get new player because it's a friendlier environment to achieve progress, but it probably will also reduce the amount of active players because they don't have anything to do anymore. BDO would need a full restart of the game from zero, don't think that would be a good idea. 


You probably care alot for several reasons and still play it because of them. Maybe focus more on fun parts, reduce the times you enchant per month to 1 or 2 times and get out all the frustration at these times. And do something afterwards that relieves you of the stress and anger, whatever that would be ;)

Go find out how to make passive and semi-passive money, save up and maybe get lucky sniping a cool accessoire that you wanted without the frustration of destroying it. And accept that this game is not fair, but maybe you get also lucky on one of these days and others are jelous :) 

Nah I dont think so, I play for 9 months now and my gear is 50% PRI, 40% DUO and 10% TRI and have not one piece of boss stuff equipped. I do not play to farm stuff/money, I do not play to grind exp. Whenever RNG was involved, I only received frustration, luck? Never seen this in this game. I just do not know what PA were smoking when designing the game, maybe it works in Asia, but an 1:1 carbon copy for EU/US is just... did they ever do some research? Obviously, there are enough "customers" who are very happy with it (I mean look at @Marcellio ...). BDO got a realy great framework but they fail at the details and refuse to fix/change anything, history tells, they are doomed to fail and they will, sooner or later. The market would be fine with a proper player driven economy. The rest is... fine I gues. I only play for fun, doing only what is fun, login for 30min a day to use up the daily bonus and when I am online longer, I just somehow kill time with meaningsless stuff. Stopped gathering ressources 9 months ago, stopped farming and grinding 9 months ago, why fish, when auto-fishing is so much more efficient? When I look at the players... I see more then 99% of the playerbase being online doing nothing, some are afk-fishing, some afk-rising and most just stand around... very few do realy something (like farming and/or grinding). PvP... I do not know, except for the occasional fight over a farm spot nothing realy happens, a few PKs thats all... Red Battlefield... hm, empty. I do not know if the BDO devs had that in mind when designing BDO and later bringing it to EU/US.

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Posted

I don't mind a bit of RNG, I sort of like a bit of suspense....  there is just too much RNG.... correction, there is too much WEIGHTED NG.

THEN! you get punish severely when you FAIL! so not only they kick you in the misters for failing, they punish you FOR failing! like its not bad enough failing! I'm talking about the enchantment system.... its total BS!

plus the reward system is HEAVILY weighted to crappy loot. TRUE RNG should be equal across possible outcomes, this is not even RNG since it isn't random but a heavily weighted gambling system.

So if we HAVE to endure RNG then MAKE IT TOTALLY RANDOM! not WEIGHTED like it is.

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Posted

the amity game is not rng, (well some of it is) but if you know how it works you win most the time as it's putting certain NPC knowledge together, its not hard.

Yah whatever.

It works, till Heidel... in Glish it already fails to work and do not let me start with Calpheon, Mediah or Valencia. Or no, lets do it:

Most conversation knowledge is based on world knowledge (like NPCs and other) and there is absolutely nothing you can do to improve interest and favor.

Very few conversation knowlege is based on items in the world, like mobs and objects, there, the better your knowledge grade, the higher your interest and favor, so of course S and A+ is better then C, on the other hand, the difference is not that big (like 5-10 points in favor and sparking between C and S).

Your class mean nothing.

YOur standing in the lands mean nothing.

Your horoscope sign mean... well basicaly... nothing.

Your luck score mean nothing.

Past Heidel, there is "salt" in the RNG algorithms to alter the outcome in the favor of BDO and to punish the player, in order to make you grind amity like everything else (some would say, the NPCs are just damn unfriendly douches). A few examples: 100% sparking interest mean always a success, yet it keeps failing, why? 0% sparking always mean a fail, yet it keeps succeeding, why? 14/14 cards, all are 80%+ sparking and you get the task to fail 5 times, why? 14/14 cards with 50% and less sparking and you get the task to succeed 4/5 times in a row, why? This two are not just occasional, they happen like 2 out of 3 times, just impossible tasks.

I raised the amity of almost all NPCs in Olvia, Velia, Heidel and half Glish to 1000 with the conversation minigame, till I met the first "moronic" NPC.. Feradau (or what the name of this guy is), the alchemy-chef of Glish. I wonder if there is ONE person in the world who raised his amity to 600 with the minigame. I tell you something, with 430 energy, it is way faster and less frustrating to wait till energy is maxed and then greet the NPC to raise the amity level.

If someone needs a proof of RNG in BDO it IS the conversation minigame, because it is ONLY RNG. You just do not notice it till Glish.

 

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Posted

I tend to agree. The game mechanics exist to provide a sense of joy of overcoming hardship (hard fun) for that sense of fiero. However, when the punishment for failure is too high then the cost outweighs the benefit. I hope the game designer can reconsider their design decision. 

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Posted

the 100% cards can not be used over and over again, there are rules which are on each card, for example

card a has 100%

next turn, card a has 20% chance

card b has 12%

however if card a is now placed before card b, card b will have 100%

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Posted (edited)

In other games you destroy your item completly when you try to overenchant. No one forces you to go for TET or PEN. In other mmos hundreds of people farm some 1week spawn dragon to share 1 op item each 3 months IF they win always the pvp for the boss.

Dunno what's the point of all of the complaining over and over and over. Just because something is there that doesn't mean it's there for everyone to have just cus u spend 12h/day for a half year.

Some ppl luck out some don't it's like complaining you weren't born a bilionaire in rl also. Need to deal with it.

Edited by Sindeya

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Posted

In other games you destroy your item completly when you try to overenchant. No one forces you to go for TET or PEN. In other mmos hundreds of people farm some 1week spawn dragon to share 1 op item each 3 months IF they win always the pvp for the boss.

Dunno what's the point of all of the complaining over and over and over. Just because something is there that doesn't mean it's there for everyone to have just cus u spend 12h/day for a half year.

Some ppl luck out some don't it's like complaining you weren't born a bilionaire in rl also. Need to deal with it.

AMEN to that my bro, amen

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In other games you destroy your item completly when you try to overenchant. No one forces you to go for TET or PEN. In other mmos hundreds of people farm some 1week spawn dragon to share 1 op item each 3 months IF they win always the pvp for the boss.

Dunno what's the point of all of the complaining over and over and over. Just because something is there that doesn't mean it's there for everyone to have just cus u spend 12h/day for a half year.

Some ppl luck out some don't it's like complaining you weren't born a bilionaire in rl also. Need to deal with it.

Example of such a game?

Yah "noone" forces us to go for TET or PEN... except the players who have TET/PEN...

1week spawn dragon for 1 op item each 3 months? Name such a game, I tell you, any game with this ridiculous system would be doomed forever, what you describe is actualy BDO... farm for 3 months to force enchant one item 1 lvl, or farm for 1 month for a very high chance at failing a regular enchant.

You are missing the point, the problem is not some "must have" attitude, the problem is BDOs way to work, it does not just give you a chance to win and loose, no, if you loose, BDO even kicks you in the nuts and laughs at you, how stupid you are, THATS the problem.

What comparison is that? If you are a billionaire, you actualy worked for it, yes some more and some less, nevertheless you did work and well there are the kids of billionaires, who did nothing but are rich beyond comparison. And thats what we have here, all work the samer, yet some are rich beyond comparison for some magical reason. Sorry if you did not got it yet: BDO is a game and as such need an even playing field with equal chances for everyone. Thats actualy why people play games, if you want to get screwed over and over again in your hobby, you can just as well stay in the real world and not play at all.

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Posted (edited)

Try breeding, then we can have a real conversation bro.

2nd, you want to upgrade? enjoy. You fail to tri? 0 -----s given, you can get duo without falling back. You're hungry for that extra billion and fail? Too bad for you. No effort in there. Not even gonna argue with your other points. This game is RNG deal with it, don't like it? Close shop and go home.

Edited by Miyumi

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Posted (edited)

Example of such a game?

Yah "noone" forces us to go for TET or PEN... except the players who have TET/PEN...

1week spawn dragon for 1 op item each 3 months? Name such a game, I tell you, any game with this ridiculous system would be doomed forever, what you describe is actualy BDO... farm for 3 months to force enchant one item 1 lvl, or farm for 1 month for a very high chance at failing a regular enchant.

You are missing the point, the problem is not some "must have" attitude, the problem is BDOs way to work, it does not just give you a chance to win and loose, no, if you loose, BDO even kicks you in the nuts and laughs at you, how stupid you are, THATS the problem.

What comparison is that? If you are a billionaire, you actualy worked for it, yes some more and some less, nevertheless you did work and well there are the kids of billionaires, who did nothing but are rich beyond comparison. And thats what we have here, all work the samer, yet some are rich beyond comparison for some magical reason. Sorry if you did not got it yet: BDO is a game and as such need an even playing field with equal chances for everyone. Thats actualy why people play games, if you want to get screwed over and over again in your hobby, you can just as well stay in the real world and not play at all.

Example Lineage 2 blessed epics system and not only...

Farm for 3 months huh and get nothing? Have u played an mmo for years maybe to get on top? Do you think any gamer/streamer u see on twitch for example being "on top" aka the very very few ppl who got somewhere where the majority didn't get, they got it by being a casual player cus rofl i have a rl life and habalalala and after 3 months?

There are so many games/mmos out there in which you get max lvl in 1 week as a new player and you will get the same stuff as anyone else has after some short time, and guess what in those games you will FOR REAL have pay 2 win like someone spending 20k euros for some gear which you with your whole clan will never be able to gather on one character, and yea he will also kill all of you with one aoe crit.

This is a KR mmo, it's grindy it's beautiful it's rng, why do you complain it's not something else? It's like buying an apple in the store cus it's the only fruit but then complaining it's not a banana. Eat the damn apple and be happy! :) Life is much easier when you spend less time on what you don't have and more time on what you have.

You didn't get your TET or PEN? I doubt if you have a TRI you REALLY cannot find a way to win a guy 1v1 which has TET atfer some practice brainstorming learning how to read his gamestyle and outplay him.

 

p.s. before you think i'm one of the a-holes running in PEN i'm not i failed 18 times to make bheg gloves from +9 to +10 (always started from +15 fs)... let that sink in abit... i could tell u even worse stories but what's the point...

Edited by Sindeya

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Example Lineage 2 blessed epics system and not only...

Farm for 3 months huh and get nothing? Have u played an mmo for years maybe to get on top? Do you think any gamer/streamer u see on twitch for example being "on top" aka the very very few ppl who got somewhere where the majority didn't get, they got it by being a casual player cus rofl i have a rl life and habalalala and after 3 months?

There are so many games/mmos out there in which you get max lvl in 1 week as a new player and you will get the same stuff as anyone else has after some short time, and guess what in those games you will FOR REAL have pay 2 win like someone spending 20k euros for some gear which you with your whole clan will never be able to gather on one character, and yea he will also kill all of you with one aoe crit.

This is a KR mmo, it's grindy it's beautiful it's rng, why do you complain it's not something else? It's like buying an apple in the store cus it's the only fruit but then complaining it's not a banana. Eat the damn apple and be happy! :) Life is much easier when you spend less time on what you don't have and more time on what you have.

You didn't get your TET or PEN? I doubt if you have a TRI you REALLY cannot find a way to win a guy 1v1 which has TET atfer some practice brainstorming learning how to read his gamestyle and outplay him.

 

p.s. before you think i'm one of the a-holes running in PEN i'm not i failed 18 times to make bheg gloves from +9 to +10 (always started from +15 fs)... let that sink in abit... i could tell u even worse stories but what's the point...

Lineage 2 is just another "asia" game, you know, this folks over there are kind of masochistic when it comes down to this things. Ever heard of "korea grinder"? That term is not just a myth. As far as I can tell we are in EU/US here and actualy PA/Kakao should have modified their "asia" game to the western market, which, clearly, they did not. Of course you can come and say "we love this asia type games, if you do not like it, get lost" but that is not a very constructive way for a discussion. Whatever, I will rephrase my question: name a game of western design that have such an "enchanting" in it.

Sorry what? You said in any other game you have to raid a "world" boss (aka dragon) on a weekly basis in order to get ONE overpowered item and BDO is way better then that. I am saying: a game like this (what you describe) is flawed and would get a lot of problems (of course I can not speak about asia grinders, keep in mind we play BDO here on EU/US and not in korea, japan or somewhere else in asia). Lets speak about World of Warcraft, THE MMO. You raid once a weak, like 3-4 hours per session, and you have your full set in about a month, maybe two. Any BDO player wishes s/he would get best equipment available in 1-2 months.

Yah BDO is one of this games, last max level (50) was a matter of hours, not even a week. Today... its like 55, because past that it is just mindless grind, no idea what you want to tell us with this. And there is a very good reason why, after some time, max level and good gear is easy to aquire.

If I wanted to play a KR grinder, I would have started BDO years ago in korea and not wait till it comes to the EU/US. Do you actualy know how asia food realy tastes? ANYTHING we got here in the west was modified to fit our taste. I wonder why they do not do this with games, they throw their asia games and say "eat" it and obviously there are enough folks who eat it up ^^. Actualy you are right, I, and others, do not have to play BDO if we dislike so many things, but this is not the point. We have the freedom to object our feelings and thoughts. What I can not stand is the attitude: if you dont like it, go. I am perfectly fine when you just diagree with me, but do not tell me to shup up and get lost. Because that is not the way I were raised, that is not the way ANYONE should think. If there is something I dislike, I say that I dislike it, I say why I dislike it and I leave when I can no longer bear it. You know, I throw a lot of money into games each month and actualy it is the decision of kakao/pearl abyss what they do, but they can not make this decision if all they hear is "it is beautiful we love it".

No I do not have any TET or PEN and I doubt I ever will, TRI is my goal and I am pretty sure, long before that I will quit BDO. Btw there is no learning of other gamestyle, basicaly, anyone is just jumping and running around like a freaked out ape and tries to be as unpredictable as possible, meanwhile this player addin some attacks, usualy cc heavy, and hopes to hit the opponent once in all the frully of chaos, because, frist cc wins, especialy when you got PEN/TET weapons and accessories, a lvl 58 player in DUO armor is like nothing here, you hit once and its game over.

PS: I dont think anything here, I do not care if you have PEN stuff or not. As said above, the problem is not that you disagree, the problem is that you say: if you dont like it, get lost... this is a very dangerous attitude (ask yourself where the humanity would be today, when EVERYONE would have said "if you do not like it, leave"...). Btw sounds bad and familiar, one of the reasons why I stopped enhancing the regular way, force enchant is the only way to go for me, so I do not get depressed ^^.

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