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Too much RNG, not enough rewards for Hard work


61 posts in this topic

Posted

Been playing this game in a way where I avoid as much RNG as possible... That has really limited the things I can do. 
Yesterday I started building failstacks for the first time since I started playing the game (4 months ago), and my gosh that sucked.
Spent over 200 mill getting a +2 Trading clothes. I know I did it wrong, but that does not make it any more fun.

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Posted

Sadly there are enough people who will stay and want an RNG game :/ 

The character creation and combat animations are gorgeous so I understand your frustration at letting this game go. The initial parting is the worst. You'll feel better after a few weeks of playing another game or doing something else with your time. 

I've also given up on BDO, but I check back on the forums every once in a while to see if they have finally caved in and removed RNG. 

 

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Posted

Maybe one day they will change the system to actually give rewards to hard working players rather than kick them when they're down. 
Maybe one day we will change the toxic community.
Maybe one day they will listen.
 

Just maybe.

-------------------

Things i would like them to replace...change the enhance system to allow for TRI gear without falling back to DUO / PRI. TET (takes 50 dur) / PEN (takes 100), maybe add a time lock so players can't spam. Add a crafting system that can be used to help enhance gear, maybe giving the player extra success rate? Make CRON stones drop from everything. Make hard/sharp shards drop from everything. Give us an unique crystal style (maybe allow rng stats on the crystals to create a new playstyle?). Make DP lives matter.

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Posted

Sadly there are enough people who will stay and want an RNG game :/ 

The character creation and combat animations are gorgeous so I understand your frustration at letting this game go. The initial parting is the worst. You'll feel better after a few weeks of playing another game or doing something else with your time. 

I've also given up on BDO, but I check back on the forums every once in a while to see if they have finally caved in and removed RNG. 

 

I don't mind RNG, I like a bit of gambling and in many ways it should be RNG.... BUT!...... in my opinion there is TOO MUCH RNG plus fail punishments, personally I think its a bit extreme, I haven't enhanced in months and buy all my stuff now out of this fear. I play this game to have fun and relax, NOTHING about the RNG system is fun and relaxed, in fact its makes me angry frustrated and cheated.

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Posted

I don't mind a bit of RNG, I sort of like a bit of suspense....  there is just too much RNG.... correction, there is too much WEIGHTED NG.

THEN! you get punish severely when you FAIL! so not only they kick you in the misters for failing, they punish you FOR failing! like its not bad enough failing! I'm talking about the enchantment system.... its total BS!

plus the reward system is HEAVILY weighted to crappy loot. TRUE RNG should be equal across possible outcomes, this is not even RNG since it isn't random but a heavily weighted gambling system.

So if we HAVE to endure RNG then MAKE IT TOTALLY RANDOM! not WEIGHTED like it is.

If you understood how computers generated a random number you would understand that what you are asking for is sadly impossible. I agree with the RNG, but computers us pseudo-random number algorithms that are based on mathematical formulas.

This means that computer programs are pseudo-random, which means they are generated in a predictable fashion using a mathematical formula. Usually the variable this formula is tied to is time, it can even be down to the milisec and when you click that button and it "generates a random number" or "computes" rather, that's about as random as a digital RNG system will ever get unless they use an analog interface such as an atmospheric noise.

That would mean they would need radio receivers to pick up atmospheric noise, which is then used to generate random numbers. The radios are tuned between stations. A possible attack on the generator is therefore to broadcast on the frequencies that those radios use in order to affect the generator. So there's another issue.

Hope this eases some of the frustration you feel and that you can take solace in that we are all in this and we all think it sucks. But hey that's why we're so happy for our friends when they finally get a tet or pen they been aiming for for months. Bro I blew 1.18 billion silver and still have not tet my dande. In fact I was worse off gear score wise then when I started as it's pri and I fail stacked on my armor which all blew up. I could have practically bought one on the market if someone actually sold one. But you know what? That's just how the game is. Keep pushing through cause we're all there man.

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Posted

 

If you understood how computers generated a random number you would understand that what you are asking for is sadly impossible. I agree with the RNG, but computers us pseudo-random number algorithms that are based on mathematical formulas.

This means that computer programs are pseudo-random, which means they are generated in a predictable fashion using a mathematical formula. Usually the variable this formula is tied to is time, it can even be down to the milisec and when you click that button and it "generates a random number" or "computes" rather, that's about as random as a digital RNG system will ever get unless they use an analog interface such as an atmospheric noise.

That would mean they would need radio receivers to pick up atmospheric noise, which is then used to generate random numbers. The radios are tuned between stations. A possible attack on the generator is therefore to broadcast on the frequencies that those radios use in order to affect the generator. So there's another issue.

Hope this eases some of the frustration you feel and that you can take solace in that we are all in this and we all think it sucks. But hey that's why we're so happy for our friends when they finally get a tet or pen they been aiming for for months. Bro I blew 1.18 billion silver and still have not tet my dande. In fact I was worse off gear score wise then when I started as it's pri and I fail stacked on my armor which all blew up. I could have practically bought one on the market if someone actually sold one. But you know what? That's just how the game is. Keep pushing through cause we're all there man.

I understand how they work, and I know its not entirely random and the mathematical algorithm eventually repeats due to the formula presented, but there is way to adjust the formula to make computational probabilities more favorable my changing the formula. 

S**t buddy...... 1.8 billion and you were worse off! you must have wanted to hit your head against a brick wall after that! LOL! this is what I mean.... this game doesn't reward for hard work. 

I feel for ya buddy I really do.... :D

 

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Posted

I have played this game since launch and their is one thing this game does brilliantly.... punish hard working, grinding players that spend hours, days,weeks months accumulating silver and items for it to be all wiped away in seconds through BDO's toxic cancerous RNG system. I'm sorry but the whole game is TOO RNG and not based on true rewards based on time but into the game and hard work.

Gear Enhancement system - what a joke - who ever thought of this was obviously drunk or on drugs or both or really hates gamer's or like's watching gamer's suffering, spend hours and hours grinding for top gear, only for it to fail with loads fail stacks, no guide as to how many fail stacks is required and even punish by reducing gear level if it fails at a higher level. I have read online about FS, looked at countless player guides and reviews as to what they think, spoken to other gamers and one thing I have found, everyone has a different opinion on this, no facts, and no facts being given by BDO, its like gambling with Russian roulette, this model might work in South Korea where gamer's spend their whole life in front of a screen but here in the west it doesn't. I spend at least 12 hours everyday on this and still nowhere near got good gear, and before anyone says it, saying "git gud" plays no part in a RNG system, its totally random so no matter how good you are you have the same chance as a new start which is ridiculous. I have a friend who got TET on just 10 FS! TEN! and he has been playing it 4 months, I have been playing it almost a year and have failed TET with over 100 FS 8 times!. How the hell is that fair? he doesn't even play it half the time I do? I feel like ive been kicked in the nuts 8 times after being so loyal and dedicated to this game, how are you rewarding me for my hard work? my dedication? how are you motivating me to continue to put money into this game, the RNG system punishes me, how is that good for you to make more money?

Rewards boxes - fixed - don't tell me they aren't, they are, I've guess 90% accuracy with most of my boxes because the chances of getting anything good are minimal - boxes need EQUAL chances of all rewards, not heavily weighted to the crap like they are now.

Pet breeding - again - totally RNG - needs fixing to make it more equal

Accessory enhancement - now i know I'm not the only one thinks BDO kicks you while your own on this one. Not only is it near impossible to get anywhere with it, you fail, okay but then you take away BOTH items too? what the hell is the batter with you BDO? do u truly hate hard working gamer's? same with uniforms.

You need to do something, there is just too many punishments in this game to get anywhere, its so frustrating, grinding for weeks only for it to be all taken away in a blink of an eye.

The progression system needs to be based on hard work and time put into the game, or this RNG system needs to be revised with clear guides as to how it works, stating at a certain level the percentage increases, we are just left in the dark on this game.

Your RNG gaming model only creates dissatisfied gamer's, with a very small minority liking it because the RNG luck angel has blessed them.

Please give this some serious thought. As people approach this wall more and more gamer's are just going to stop investing since they will think there is no point.

Your a game company, a company who wants to make money, you want gamer's to invest in you yet this RNG system gives no incentive to continue to invest if you constantly punish players like this.

Please think about this..

Many Thanks

P.S - only constructive comments please, flaming, trolling, insulting and abusive comments will be reported... many thanks in advance.

I was about to open a post about this exactly, gotten 0 luck since i started the game, i've spent around 60€ in dyes, havn't gotten 1 black dye, failed at every event box you could get, spent millions on unknown accesories and havnt gotten anything, killed 1000 ogres, no ogre ring, while i keep saving silver to see if i can catch it on the RNG market... feels like this game has no future, and will continue to rely on "Returning Player events" to get the active community feel it has atm.

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Posted (edited)

The only way that a computer can give you a true 'random' answer, is with a quantum computer. Except the answer can be vague and generally useless half the time.

"Give me a number between 0 and 100"

Answers: Apples.

Edited by Kaiserx

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Posted

I understand how they work, and I know its not entirely random and the mathematical algorithm eventually repeats due to the formula presented, but there is way to adjust the formula to make computational probabilities more favorable my changing the formula. 

S**t buddy...... 1.8 billion and you were worse off! you must have wanted to hit your head against a brick wall after that! LOL! this is what I mean.... this game doesn't reward for hard work. 

I feel for ya buddy I really do.... :D

 

Haha yeah it hurts, but no head banging I actually I laughed it off, I twitch stream and I failed TET 4 times so far. I'm going to make my fifth attempt soon. You can check me out or watch the highlights.

www.twitch.tv/zoomdbz

The thing is just don't take it so seriously or personally.
It's all about perspective. We all fail but the thing is during all this time of me trying to get the weapon I farmed and I pvped and honed my skills. It's like by the time I get the weapon I'll actually be able to use it right. I know some lucky guys with good gear who don't have the skills and you can still out play them. 

The only way that a computer can give you a true 'random' answer, is with a quantum computer. Except the answer can be vague and generally useless half the time.

"Give me a number between 0 and 100"

Answers: Apples.

This isn't actually correct. A classical computer has a memory made up of bits, where each bit is represented by either a one or a zero. A quantum computer maintains a sequence of qubits. A single qubit can represent a one, a zero, or any quantum superposition of those two qubit states. A quantum computer operates by setting the qubits in a perfect drift that represents the problem at hand and by manipulating those qubits with a fixed sequence of quantum logic gates. The sequence of gates to be applied is called a quantum algorithm. The calculation ends with a measurement, collapsing the system of qubits into one of the 2^n pure states, where each qubit is zero or one, decomposing into a classical state. The outcome can therefore be at most n classical bits of information. Quantum algorithms are often probabilistic, in that they provide the correct solution only with a certain known probability, thus would not answer "Apples". 

That stated, we can have regular quantum computers generate true random numbers by the use of analogue devices like radio receivers to pick up atmospheric noise and generate numbers from that as I have previously state in a post or 2 above. 

I believe if they used this cheap method they could improve the true randomness of the system.

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Posted (edited)

the amity game is not rng, (well some of it is) but if you know how it works you win most the time as it's putting certain NPC knowledge together, its not hard.

if this is true, how can one fail when you have a 100% chance per the "mechanics of how it works".  Again I repeat, i have failed to succeed at sparking interest when they are at 100%.  ....and before someone asks, I will clarify that no, there was not one before it that had a side effect that reduced anything (as i realize there are some that do certain things for the next 2 plays or something - although my favorites are those that have effects that last 6 rounds when there are only like 4 turns in the entire Amity game). 

In summary, the Amity game is AWFUL....it is not fun, it's just 100% terrible and I know how it play it, but it's still awful.

I will agree with the OP however, as there is way too much RNG in this game.  It's like when they were deciding just how much RNG to put in this game, the guy making that decision dang near overdosed on Cocaine and went f'ign ballistic.  He needed to tone it back BIG TIME.

A great example is horse training / breeding....

Spend hours training a horse to level 30 with RNG playing a MAJOR role in not only which skills you get, but how many you get.  Purchase pearl shop gear to increase your odds of learning decent/more skills.  During your horse leveling, your game desyncs during one of the famous desync issues that seem to plague this game after every update they do.  Your horse runs into the river during the desync, so now it has one death.  Get your horse to level 30 finally, and it still only has 8 total crap skills.  Buy a skill change coupon, get another total crap skill.  Buy 13 more coupons, end up changing the same 2 total garbage skills out for EACH OTHER ONLY, 12 more times (now you just paid $30 for f'ing Forechop and Caution to be swapped out 13 times).  Give up on trying to get decent skills, but you still have the death to deal with.  You could breed it anyway with the one death, but if you breed two Lvl30 T7 horses, with just one of them having ONE death, that one death will decrease your chances of getting a T8 by 20%.  So, you buy a death reset coupon from the pearl shop, because you can't get them anywhere else.  You then finally breed your two T7 level 30 horses together, only to have RNG screw you over again and you get a T6.  Repeat the above over and over (giving up on the skill change coupons and hopefully not having a death, as that will screw you over even more)...and not really related to RNG, but just as an additional "screw you horse trainers" then when you sell your crap horse with no breeds left and total crap skills, the market takes a 30% cut of your profit, even though you have a value pack, as apparently the horse market is excluded from those "savings".

Who wouldn't love such wondrous RNG added in with the existing annoyances already there?!  Look, I get RNG is needed as you can't just give everyone the best things on try 1, but again my point is that they were coked out the gills when they obviously decided on the amount of RNG to put in THIS game.

 

 

Edited by Luna Nightshade

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Posted

two simple implementations that would make you happier, without removing the RNG systems.

1. fix node levels, make each level increase item drop rates by X%  (pick a f'ing number that is a whole number, not including a decimal)

2. increase enchanting odds by X% where X= some number based on family fame totals.

(not sure why they didn't call it family fame, as I thought it had 100% to do with how many points your house had in each city, until I saw the fame numbers)

 

Very simple solution, I would like to hear arguments against it, I think it works as it values your time and effort put in to the game, those with more energy (or alts :) ) get higher node levels, resulting in "more" drops.  Those with more investment in their characters (PvE, lifeskills, knowledge) get better chance for better gear.  The more you put in, the more you get out.

 

I know other issues were brought up in the comments, I read all the comment here just now, but I think these are the two most important issues that were both brought up, and discussed.  I also feel that this is a fair addition to the existing system for both KaKao (happier players=more players=more potential money) and the players.

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