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Remove EXP/Gem Loss on World Bosses

31 posts in this topic

Posted

If the things one-shot someone with decent gear and lag very badly for a lot of people because of the density of players to the point that some people can't avoid the attacks—then EXP loss and gem loss probably shouldn't be a thing.  It's hardly a hardcore or "use skill" element, and more of a punishment without much benefit to the playerbase for said punishing.  Just figured I'd suggest it as it seems a little harsh given that they do so much damage and due to the lag sometimes there isn't much warning.  Not to mention that if you do use Elion's Tears, there's a chance as you stand up the boss will whip around and kill you again regardless.

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Posted

Not sure that I agree it should be completely removed. However I would like this to be change to losing exp or crystals at world bosses. If you are going to world/field bosses you are probably higher level and losing 1% exp and a crystal that could be worth million or priceless seems a bit much.

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Posted

Like the idea I don't permit myself to go to certain bosses like bhegs because of this very thing. I've heard through discord that they wanted more people fighting the bosses anyway (whether scrolls or WB idk), but this would certainly increase it.

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Posted

To counteract this, I've had to stop leveling on my highest level character entirely and sit at a pleasant 0% and never use any crystals on any bosses.  (I'm mainly fighting Kutum, Karanda, Bheg, Nouver.  Kutum and Bheg are terrible about constant murder.)

Definitely not how the game should have to be played if you want to fight world bosses.

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Posted

+1

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Posted

Tick the box to use the Elions Tear then respawn at node.

or get good.

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Posted

I think the crystal loss should definitely go. There's some benefit to having risk of death, but most of the PVE content is already discouraged by the current design.

I'm okay with the xp loss, but having to have boss gear... and then a separate boss fighting gear; it's just poorly thought out.

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Posted

I think the crystal loss should definitely go. There's some benefit to having risk of death, but most of the PVE content is already discouraged by the current design.

I'm okay with the xp loss, but having to have boss gear... and then a separate boss fighting gear; it's just poorly thought out.

The EXP loss matters way more when you get higher level.  At level 58 1-2% EXP lost is easily an hour+ down the drain each time you die.  I would much rather take the crystal loss than losing, like, 5 hours of work at level 60.

Tick the box to use the Elions Tear then respawn at node.

or get good.

More like the servers need to get good.

Karanda did her wider AOE (safe zone in the center) earlier today, I ran directly into the middle and died.  Half of the people standing around who hadn't been in that circle when she was flying up also dropped dead inexplicably.  The server was still counting us as "outside of the safe area" and hadn't registered us as inside.

The lag + super damage makes it impossible to predict/react to.

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Posted

i would not vote for this if the server is not lagging but :/ oh well, Boss teleport or AOE skill without signal [due to lag] is just not fun.

I fine with exp loss but gem loss need to be gone for world boss, [just make them like scroll boss] so weaker player can also join in and attempt the boss since there is no loss for them.

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Posted

+1

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Posted (edited)

They already have this for awakened/normal scroll bosses. Don't understand why we don't have this for world/field bosses as well. 

 

Most people won't even do the world/field bosses while having xp past the soft cap as you lose too much xp. I'm 57 at the moment and at 0% xp, so I do bosses, but I know that once I decide to level up to 58, that I won't be doing bosses until I hit 58 because of xp loss on death. 

Edited by Ishamaelronin

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Posted

I'm 58 at around 70% XP towards 59. Do I do world bosses in their current state? Hell no.

 

Awakened bosses with no crystal or XP loss are actually fun to do, make the world bosses like this please.

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Posted

Sorry. But if you die to a world/field boss, you really have to blame yourself.

You should have seen them when they were first introduced.
People would use ungemmed gear and a character with 0% experience in a level, because if you were a melee, you would die an average of 20 times on e.g. Bheg.
All hardcore people leveled a ranger or a witch/wizard to 55 (old soft cap) JUST for world/field bosses.

The world/field boss damage is less than 1/3rd of what it used to be and the animations are so ridiculously slow, that even my grandmother can see it coming, go afk for a cup of tea and back off before the attack hits.

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Posted

Sorry. But if you die to a world/field boss, you really have to blame yourself.

You should have seen them when they were first introduced.
People would use ungemmed gear and a character with 0% experience in a level, because if you were a melee, you would die an average of 20 times on e.g. Bheg.
All hardcore people leveled a ranger or a witch/wizard to 55 (old soft cap) JUST for world/field bosses.

The world/field boss damage is less than 1/3rd of what it used to be and the animations are so ridiculously slow, that even my grandmother can see it coming, go afk for a cup of tea and back off before the attack hits.

Yes..... but no.

With the desync + wars + graphic lag + keys which doesnt work while youre lagged, this thing sucks.

 

Karanda is a pain in the ass. Kutum too, Bheg too. Why? the massive lag make it almost impossible to be 100% safe. I think an alter is not a "nice way" to make bosses. Its a lack of optimization.

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Posted

Yes..... but no.

With the desync + wars + graphic lag + keys which doesnt work while youre lagged, this thing sucks.

 

Karanda is a pain in the ass. Kutum too, Bheg too. Why? the massive lag make it almost impossible to be 100% safe. I think an alter is not a "nice way" to make bosses. Its a lack of optimization.

I have not done Karanda since the nerf and I know she was a b*tch before, but I have yet to die on any other boss.

The only one I do not bother to fight is Rednose.

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Posted

Sorry. But if you die to a world/field boss, you really have to blame yourself.

You should have seen them when they were first introduced.
People would use ungemmed gear and a character with 0% experience in a level, because if you were a melee, you would die an average of 20 times on e.g. Bheg.
All hardcore people leveled a ranger or a witch/wizard to 55 (old soft cap) JUST for world/field bosses.

The world/field boss damage is less than 1/3rd of what it used to be and the animations are so ridiculously slow, that even my grandmother can see it coming, go afk for a cup of tea and back off before the attack hits.

While good in theory, the lag and bugs of this game make it impossible to actually predict.  You can dodge an attack and entirely nail it client-side, and then server-side when you're 10 feet away the game decides it's going to smack you in the ass due to desync.

I don't die to Kzarka, Nouver, Karanda, Mudster, Red Nose, or Dim Tree Spirit.  Usually.  But lord knows every once in a while the game decides to screw up and make it so, for instance, I can't move and have to stand there continually trying to dodge/block but it just keeps resetting my position.  Other players will sometimes pop in-and-out, the bosses will randomly teleport to different locations, you'll be standing there 30 feet away thinking you'd dodged that last attack since the boss isn't even doing the animation anymore—and bam, you fall down dead.

It's something we have to currently just get used to, as an open-world boss in a game like this is going to have issues like that, but the EXP and gem loss isn't necessary.  If this were an instanced game where that sort-of stuff had almost no issues, I'd tell people to suck it up and git gud.  But in BDO it isn't always about being unskilled or making a stupid decision like it is if you die in PvE otherwise.  Sure, people die to the bosses because of that, there are people who just screw around and then whine and complain that they didn't get out of the AoE that had a 3-5 second tell—but you can't tell me that the bosses work smoothly/seamlessly and that there aren't any other factors in play here either.  Everyone can recognize it.

I did see them when they were first introduced, they were worse.  But because something was worse doesn't mean it's perfect now.  I do remember people creating Ranger/Witch/Wizard alts just to do bosses.  And people still do that.  Lots of people use boss alts with no gems/no exp/shittier gear.  Hell, someone was complaining they lost EXP at Kutum and half of the crowd during the train went "You should be doing Kutum on an alt, lol" and giving them tips on what classes to use for it.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe make the bosses to not get buffed at night at least? I mean, everything 1 shots the average Joe withouut full boss armor, and there's no added benefit to their increased strength since it doesnt buff drop rate, just exp, which they give none, plus, darkness doesnt let you see their abilities clearly, and dont get me started with storms; it's just pointless.

Edited by Hemuk

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Posted

I agree with OP.  The state of this games optimization, coupled with the server instability - is reason enough to reduce the punishment for people who die on WB's.  So many times I die from seemingly nothing, only to have an explosion of activity appear on my screen signaling that I was unknowingly standing in the fray.

Players should be able to do their best when they go into WB's, and not have to worry about being punished extra-hard for doing so.  Why fight your hardest when you're going to lose gems, exp, etc along the way?  WB's aren't something that really get that much easier with skill and effort - you're still going to get 2-shotted or die to latency or screen clutter.  But hey, let's just make you lose a few hours of grinding exp and millions of silver worth of gems and upgrades while we're at it?  Stupid.

WB's should not destroy gems, or create EXP loss penalty.  Durability loss, time loss, and of course not getting what you wanted from the boss even though you've killed it dozens of times, should be enough of a punishment.

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Posted

While good in theory, the lag and bugs of this game make it impossible to actually predict.  You can dodge an attack and entirely nail it client-side, and then server-side when you're 10 feet away the game decides it's going to smack you in the ass due to desync.

I don't die to Kzarka, Nouver, Karanda, Mudster, Red Nose, or Dim Tree Spirit.  Usually.  But lord knows every once in a while the game decides to screw up and make it so, for instance, I can't move and have to stand there continually trying to dodge/block but it just keeps resetting my position.  Other players will sometimes pop in-and-out, the bosses will randomly teleport to different locations, you'll be standing there 30 feet away thinking you'd dodged that last attack since the boss isn't even doing the animation anymore—and bam, you fall down dead.

It's something we have to currently just get used to, as an open-world boss in a game like this is going to have issues like that, but the EXP and gem loss isn't necessary.  If this were an instanced game where that sort-of stuff had almost no issues, I'd tell people to suck it up and git gud.  But in BDO it isn't always about being unskilled or making a stupid decision like it is if you die in PvE otherwise.  Sure, people die to the bosses because of that, there are people who just screw around and then whine and complain that they didn't get out of the AoE that had a 3-5 second tell—but you can't tell me that the bosses work smoothly/seamlessly and that there aren't any other factors in play here either.  Everyone can recognize it.

I did see them when they were first introduced, they were worse.  But because something was worse doesn't mean it's perfect now.  I do remember people creating Ranger/Witch/Wizard alts just to do bosses.  And people still do that.  Lots of people use boss alts with no gems/no exp/shittier gear.  Hell, someone was complaining they lost EXP at Kutum and half of the crowd during the train went "You should be doing Kutum on an alt, lol" and giving them tips on what classes to use for it.

Maybe you should make a video of you fighting a boss and post it here, because I have not had these problems in ages.

Last time I died to a world/field boss (not counting Karanda here, she is still a b*tch) was before the nerf, which would be around 6-7 months ago.
This was to Bheg when he was still teleporting around and one shotting groups of people every 5 seconds.

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Posted

Maybe you should make a video of you fighting a boss and post it here, because I have not had these problems in ages.

Last time I died to a world/field boss (not counting Karanda here, she is still a b*tch) was before the nerf, which would be around 6-7 months ago.
This was to Bheg when he was still teleporting around and one shotting groups of people every 5 seconds.

Some of it could be class differences as well.  My current main is a Kunoichi, getting out of places is awful.  I can't use my forward dash to get out of a cluster of people, only side/backwards dash which then means I can't sprint out of places half the time.  No matter the class though (I use a Witch for Karanda and a Sorc for Kzarka) every once in a while I can't move and just get stuck.  I think server-side what happens is I get stunned, but then my game won't recognize it.  So I can block/start up an attack/etc. for like .5 seconds and then it just resets to me standing dumbly staring at the boss.  It happens in PVP too with some weird results, I'll get grapple chained by a zerker and be able to attack them/block/dodge mid-air due to desync.

Honestly Karanda is probably one of the easiest ones though.  Her and Kzarka I don't die to at all.  But, I recognize for Karanda it's probably because I'm a Witch and can just sit at a distance, teleport, and block if need be.  Kutum was horrible, everyone dies at Kutum.  Nouver's easy enough, I only die if I'm stunned and can't get out of his fire breath.  Bheg's still a jerk, Dim Tree's pretty easy.

Either way though, if they give us no penalty whatsoever on the scrolls (awakened or regular) why bother giving us a penalty to the world bosses?  It doesn't offer any incentive/experience to the game.  It just discourages more people from trying the bosses in my own opinion.

As for the video thing, I could try it but I've got next to no experience recording stuff.

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Posted

Some of it could be class differences as well.  My current main is a Kunoichi, getting out of places is awful.  I can't use my forward dash to get out of a cluster of people, only side/backwards dash which then means I can't sprint out of places half the time.  No matter the class though (I use a Witch for Karanda and a Sorc for Kzarka) every once in a while I can't move and just get stuck.  I think server-side what happens is I get stunned, but then my game won't recognize it.  So I can block/start up an attack/etc. for like .5 seconds and then it just resets to me standing dumbly staring at the boss.  It happens in PVP too with some weird results, I'll get grapple chained by a zerker and be able to attack them/block/dodge mid-air due to desync.

Honestly Karanda is probably one of the easiest ones though.  Her and Kzarka I don't die to at all.  But, I recognize for Karanda it's probably because I'm a Witch and can just sit at a distance, teleport, and block if need be.  Kutum was horrible, everyone dies at Kutum.  Nouver's easy enough, I only die if I'm stunned and can't get out of his fire breath.  Bheg's still a jerk, Dim Tree's pretty easy.

Either way though, if they give us no penalty whatsoever on the scrolls (awakened or regular) why bother giving us a penalty to the world bosses?  It doesn't offer any incentive/experience to the game.  It just discourages more people from trying the bosses in my own opinion.

As for the video thing, I could try it but I've got next to no experience recording stuff.

The problems you refer to in the first part is all due to desync (and maybe some latency issues, because I do not have all of those issues).

Well, I guess every class has their own weaknesses versus some bosses. I personally think Kutum is piss easy (I actually solo'd him once for more than 25 minutes, waiting for people to show up. But no one even bothers these days) and Bheg is "okay".

The penalty is probably in place for people to actually pay attention and not just face-roll their abilities, since loot distribution is based on damage(/skill?). This does not count for scroll bosses.

If you have an Nvidia gpu, it is very very easy to record using Shadow play.
Just check your settings for the keybinding to start recording and voila, you record your gameplay without losing performance.

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Posted

The problems you refer to in the first part is all due to desync (and maybe some latency issues, because I do not have all of those issues).

Well, I guess every class has their own weaknesses versus some bosses. I personally think Kutum is piss easy (I actually solo'd him once for more than 25 minutes, waiting for people to show up. But no one even bothers these days) and Bheg is "okay".

The penalty is probably in place for people to actually pay attention and not just face-roll their abilities, since loot distribution is based on damage(/skill?). This does not count for scroll bosses.

If you have an Nvidia gpu, it is very very easy to record using Shadow play.
Just check your settings for the keybinding to start recording and voila, you record your gameplay without losing performance.

I've noticed that, in my own experience, loot distribution doesn't seem to be all that effected by damage/skill.  For instance, there was someone at Karanda who died during horrible lag at Karanda when Karanda was about 75%.  They actually said: "Yeah, screw this, I'm just going to wait for her to be dead, let me know when she's down.".  They stayed dead during the entire time Karanda was alive after tagging in that initial moment, and they got a box.  I could see their body and everything.

Similarly, I had a level 56 low-gear friend I took to Kzarka for his first time doing a world boss.  He got a box.  People have said that with their 150 AP characters they're getting boxes.  People at Kutum saying "I died so many times during that, I didn't think I'd get a box!".  There seems to be much more going on here than needing a significant amount of damage to loot.  Hell, on my character I've got 180 AP (working on boss armor at the moment in preparation for Dark Knight), I got a Nouver when there were way more powerful people there.

People do actually do Kutum a lot.  The trains just take a long time.  I've been hardcore going after almost every boss for the past month-or-so, and there's a Discord I routinely watch and call %'s in.  ( http://urzasarchives.com/bdo/ihabdo/ ).  To do Kutum nowadays you have to start at VE1-2 (sometimes 3 or 4 if you aren't around there or don't have an alt parked there), and slowly work your way down with the rest of the group.  Kutum's a "train" that way, so you get to kill it a lot of times.  Again, there I see people there on very low geared alts getting bosses all the time, meanwhile I fought Kutum enough times to get to 100 Auras.

I'll check out Shadowplay and try to remember to record a boss some time!  Thank you for the info.

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Posted

For me, every time a boss is charging up the one shot ability I either get desynced in spot or I get way out of range, further than most players  and way out of range but still get one shot..

I play with a 180ms ping from australia and losing XP at every boss is getting really frustrating when I'm doing the mechanics fine..

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Posted

with that many people in that small of an area lag/desync ect will almost certianly get you killed once in a while, i fought rednose solo for about 20min one day on my sorc 116ap 189dp and did just fine. once everyone showed up i died prob 10 times and i have no idea why or what hit me, lost all my progress to 57 and half the crystals in my gear. at the very least they should lower the exp loss on world/feild bosses and reduce the chance of crystal breakage. i think there dose need to be risk in fighting them, but untill the server can better handle that amount of people going full blast in a small space, something should be done. im all for hard as long as its fair, when i die i should know why and that it was my fault, not be left going wtf i was no where near that....

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Posted

Main issue i have seende at world bosses is being unable to move back from boss since you got 15 other melee around you... heck on My warrior i tried to dash backwards but since there were a person right where i landed i desynced forward and unable to escape bleg aoe :/ i just wished that there were no clippin at bosses... did so many times because "oh yea im boxed in by other chars... gg" :/ 

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