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no -----ing damage

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Posted

A plum only needs 200-205ap to one shot anyone with 280- dp. If you cc them they are probably dead. Once you get people in the 300 dp then you need to start getting more ap. if u get 210-215 u can pretty much one shot 300 dp. 

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ok. brb going to farm up 10 billion extra in gear that other classes don't need to get clean kills. and I would not be complaining at all if the damage of classes were balanced. its pretty stupid that an assassin archetype class can do less damage than a warrior with same gearscore yet alone need a lot more to be viable. in addition to being one of the worst if not on the absolute bottom as far as grinding speed is concerned.

so for a mae to have viable enough gear you need to grind for 3x as many hours as another class? sounds legit.

You're lazy and exaggerating. 

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Posted

A plum only needs 200-205ap to one shot anyone with 280- dp. If you cc them they are probably dead. Once you get people in the 300 dp then you need to start getting more ap. if u get 210-215 u can pretty much one shot 300 dp. 

how much ap to damage past block?

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ok. brb going to farm up 10 billion extra in gear that other classes don't need to get clean kills. and I would not be complaining at all if the damage of classes were balanced. its pretty stupid that an assassin archetype class can do less damage than a warrior with same gearscore yet alone need a lot more to be viable. in addition to being one of the worst if not on the absolute bottom as far as grinding speed is concerned.

so for a mae to have viable enough gear you need to grind for 3x as many hours as another class? sounds legit.

just reroll warrior then ,

or learn to play maehwa.

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Posted (edited)

how much ap to damage past block?

Why are u trying to smack a block head-on as maehwa? Are you fighting a warrior? If you are trying to smack a warrior's block full on and you feel you do no damage then no shit. With 205 ap i can go through my friend's 270 dp kuno's block and still take 30-40% of his health. If you're a maehwa you should never be trying to pound past their block. You know sleet step will let u instantly get behind someone if u spin your camera.... The only block that should ever give u trouble is the warrior one. Maehwa is not a "one skill one kill class". "One shot" meaning you can kill them in one knockdown. If you wanna kill someone through their block you should reroll to Wizard and use that ult. 

Edited by SereneWaves

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Posted

Why are u trying to smack a block head-on as maehwa? Are you fighting a warrior? If you are trying to smack a warrior's block full on and you feel you do no damage then no shit. With 205 ap i can go through my friend's 270 dp kuno's block and still take 30-40% of his health. If you're a maehwa you should never be trying to pound past their block. You know sleet step will let u instantly get behind someone if u spin your camera.... The only block that should ever give u trouble is the warrior one. Maehwa is not a "one skill one kill class". "One shot" meaning you can kill them in one knockdown. If you wanna kill someone through their block you should reroll to Wizard and use that ult. 

never said I was trying to kill people through their black. my damage problem is after I already have them in a CC.

also it is well known that since we are the only melee class without a grab block classes is essentially a hard counter to us. and I believe warriors and valks have 360 degree block correct? so the only literal way to kill them is to bypass block that is why I am asking this question.

other classes with a frontal block only is still a big problem but not as much as war/valk.

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Posted

Tbh i kinda agree that warrior is problematic for us. Sorc doesnt have grab either but have reliable violation to burn through block once u have good gear. With mae u can burn block easly with well aimed petal ... the problem is that smart warrior will just grab u out of it or just ignore u... 

Our dmg is fine though, u need to have a lot higher gear than other classes to be competetive though. I guess we always knew this ? It was like this from the start ...

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Posted

regarding warriors @lopezpower @Mana Montana you have to either get them to attack you or just leave, we have nothing to actually break the block, other classes we can petal drill behind them or use stigma, for warriors we really can't do much, except nuke their block but that has it's own issues

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I never understood what is the point behind the one shot kill. If a healthy pvp fight does not take at least 3 mins in 1v1, it is nothing but an fps game, one shot, one kill, a boring rush back and forth from respad.

Otherwise I can understand the point about how gear dependent is Maehwa compared to other classes, and I can understand how much slower in grinding.

In my humble opinion, only one way you can one shot somebody, from back and in stun lock. Like in WW2 dogfight, you have to wait and find the position for that weak point to aim and shoot.

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Posted

regarding warriors @lopezpower @Mana Montana you have to either get them to attack you or just leave, we have nothing to actually break the block, other classes we can petal drill behind them or use stigma, for warriors we really can't do much, except nuke their block but that has it's own issues

For warriors just make this Petal drill -> Full moon block ->  Royal rage -> Sleet steps -> Stigma ; Like 80% of war will try use something at this time and take one of the cc in this little rotation ; Just do it everytime u get cd's and when u land one cc it's over :D

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For warriors just make this Petal drill -> Full moon block ->  Royal rage -> Sleet steps -> Stigma ; Like 80% of war will try use something at this time and take one of the cc in this little rotation ; Just do it everytime u get cd's and when u land one cc it's over :D

The problem with trying to follow up with ur block is if they do the spin move that launches them forward, you will get hit out of ur block because that skill goes past your block (it's  happened to me on every occasion so i'm guessing it's the case). I prefer to immediately back chase following petal drill to bait out their skill, this way i'm guaranteed not to get cc. Also if you use petal into your block they might just grab you out of your block if they notice this is what u are doing.

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Posted

I think OP is saying take a mae, and compare to any other class and give same gear, same level and mae is less damage. Take cc out, every class has it and resist. Just raw damage, same skill level. And mae is less that's not balanced when maehwa is suppose to be the assassin class.

Also, level is big for maehwa, lvl 60 multipliers are big difference from a 59.

Hopefully changes in KR get to maehwa soon and it will help. 

Btw, getting 220+ ap is alot and represent maybe 1% of the population. And once get that high, other class with 220 ap do just as much damage. 

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Posted

Also, level is big for maehwa, lvl 60 multipliers are big difference from a 59.

In general I've found people tend to forget about how much level effects one's power. You hit 57ish and the progression slows so much, not to even speak of 58+ and 60+. I've seen a few guildies quit the game over what they saw as a wall in enhancement when they should have been focusing more on the longer-term goal of leveling up more. Sure it sucks to break your mainhand trying to upgrade, but if you gain another level your returns will be even higher. 

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Posted

In general I've found people tend to forget about how much level effects one's power. You hit 57ish and the progression slows so much, not to even speak of 58+ and 60+. I've seen a few guildies quit the game over what they saw as a wall in enhancement when they should have been focusing more on the longer-term goal of leveling up more. Sure it sucks to break your mainhand trying to upgrade, but if you gain another level your returns will be even higher. 

I am just saying, sticky snowflake from 811x4 to 950x5

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Posted (edited)

If you give another class the same gear as us, they will do better. The whole 'you just need to be more geared' argument falls flat based on that, when you reach the endgame and everyone has about the same values.

Yes, with 200-220 AP we can do a lot of damage against 300 DP targets. So can most of the other classes, faster and more reliably without having huge gaps in their super armor during combos. People keep claiming Maehwa is king of 1v1. I don't really understand why? Because we can run away really fast and heal up while doing it, then return and poke and run again until we FINALLY hit a stun and can do a combo? 

To those who keep talking about Feedz or the KR Maehwas with 240-260(270 AP in one case), you guys realize this doesn't apply to 99.9% of the Maehwas out there? And once again, give any other damage class this gear and they do the same better, safer. Because not only are our abilities incredibly easy to predict, they also go in and out of Super Armor and we can't take most heads up fights against other classes damaging combos.

 

This is what I think is wrong with Maehwa. In nodewars, we get CC'd the ----- out unless we are super careful because a simple Moonrise combo alone has incredible gaps in its SA. In duels, we are easily the most predictable one trick pony out there. As soon as you fight a player remotely smart enough to understand that Petal Drill and Sleet Stigma are our only real ways of initiation, both really slow, telegraphed and easy to read, it begins to feel impossible to fight these classes. Meanwhile on my Ranger I can spam whatever -----ing move I want and base a combo off hitting just one, while most of them protect me with Frontal Guard/SA, are faster and more available. 

 

It doesn't help that our levels except for 58 and 60 are complete garbage, and 60 is a pain to get to. Because we can't farm as well as other classes. We have higher cooldowns. I've been stuck in getting 60 for a while and every time I get back to it, I just feel its completely cancer because of our farm speed. With the same AP on Ranger/Sorc I'd have no trouble farming Pila Ku for experience and money, yet at 225 AP Maehwa still sucks against those mobs except for having Petal Bloom on 15s cooldown. Meanwhile you can watch streamers literally spam F forward F backward on Ranger or just Spin to Win on Sorc and farm things faster, with way less effort.

Getting level 59 gives you TWO upgrades in autoattack, which other than most classes (who don't even skill it because autoattacks are so dogshit) you are FORCED to use because of high cooldowns on our core skills. That should tell us all something about the state of Maehwa balance.

 

We really need the buff they got on KR: But knowing Kakao this will take months and every day I just feel more and more like selling dande, kzarka and nouver and re-buying the same for another class because we're just that -----ed.

 

 

Edited by CasualNova
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Posted

The problem with trying to follow up with ur block is if they do the spin move that launches them forward, you will get hit out of ur block because that skill goes past your block (it's  happened to me on every occasion so i'm guessing it's the case). I prefer to immediately back chase following petal drill to bait out their skill, this way i'm guaranteed not to get cc. Also if you use petal into your block they might just grab you out of your block if they notice this is what u are doing.

Yeah u're right but like 80% of warriors dont do that so u can just do it 1-2 time in a row and just swap into an other thing u know ; It's just brain ; Give to a to a people one ability to predict u'r move and they will everytime do the same and at this moments they are exposed because they will try to predict something : - U made the same combo with the same opening but not with same rotation or u just dont make it ; Self-Brain / Counter brain call it like u want but it's a big part of our class ; U can be overgeard like hell with just this u can beat anyone just with a randomized order of combo ; U just need to found the good vs the oppenement

 

This is what I think is wrong with Maehwa. In nodewars, we get CC'd the ----- out unless we are super careful because a simple Moonrise combo alone has incredible gaps in its SA. In duels, we are easily the most predictable one trick pony out there. As soon as you fight a player remotely smart enough to understand that Petal Drill and Sleet Stigma are our only real ways of initiation, both really slow, telegraphed and easy to read, it begins to feel impossible to fight these classes. Meanwhile on my Ranger I can spam whatever -----ing move I want and base a combo off hitting just one, while most of them protect me with Frontal Guard/SA, are faster and more available. 

On that i'm sorry but seriously no u get one awakening maybe try to dont forgot the that tother class u played for some month ; Stub arrow cancelled - Charged stub arrow cancelled - Blind trust cancel engage ( It's like 30-40m in less than 1s.) - Dash,Dragon bite,dash,blindthrust,blooming ( Seriously no one can do anything or can predict this thing in 1s) Dash;Dragon,bite,dash,blindthrust,blomming,swap to awak,moonrise,frost,iceberg,petaldril,petalbloom , This combo is so fcking op to engage anyone and they can't do something vs that amazing combo ; It's like a tamer full cc's combos u know they can do ti and when they do it u die , So rly we get so much engage for different situation.

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Posted (edited)

If you give another class the same gear as us, they will do better. The whole 'you just need to be more geared' argument falls flat based on that, when you reach the endgame and everyone has about the same values.

Yes, with 200-220 AP we can do a lot of damage against 300 DP targets. So can most of the other classes, faster and more reliably without having huge gaps in their super armor during combos. People keep claiming Maehwa is king of 1v1. I don't really understand why? Because we can run away really fast and heal up while doing it, then return and poke and run again until we FINALLY hit a stun and can do a combo? 

To those who keep talking about Feedz or the KR Maehwas with 240-260(270 AP in one case), you guys realize this doesn't apply to 99.9% of the Maehwas out there? And once again, give any other damage class this gear and they do the same better, safer. Because not only are our abilities incredibly easy to predict, they also go in and out of Super Armor and we can't take most heads up fights against other classes damaging combos.

 

This is what I think is wrong with Maehwa. In nodewars, we get CC'd the ----- out unless we are super careful because a simple Moonrise combo alone has incredible gaps in its SA. In duels, we are easily the most predictable one trick pony out there. As soon as you fight a player remotely smart enough to understand that Petal Drill and Sleet Stigma are our only real ways of initiation, both really slow, telegraphed and easy to read, it begins to feel impossible to fight these classes. Meanwhile on my Ranger I can spam whatever -----ing move I want and base a combo off hitting just one, while most of them protect me with Frontal Guard/SA, are faster and more available. 

 

It doesn't help that our levels except for 58 and 60 are complete garbage, and 60 is a pain to get to. Because we can't farm as well as other classes. We have higher cooldowns. I've been stuck in getting 60 for a while and every time I get back to it, I just feel its completely cancer because of our farm speed. With the same AP on Ranger/Sorc I'd have no trouble farming Pila Ku for experience and money, yet at 225 AP Maehwa still sucks against those mobs except for having Petal Bloom on 15s cooldown. Meanwhile you can watch streamers literally spam F forward F backward on Ranger or just Spin to Win on Sorc and farm things faster, with way less effort.

Getting level 59 gives you TWO upgrades in autoattack, which other than most classes (who don't even skill it because autoattacks are so dogshit) you are FORCED to use because of high cooldowns on our core skills. That should tell us all something about the state of Maehwa balance.

 

We really need the buff they got on KR: But knowing Kakao this will take months and every day I just feel more and more like selling dande, kzarka and nouver and re-buying the same for another class because we're just that -----ed.

 

 

Not true. Maehwa does not need to be retard geared to be effective. Anywhere from 200-210 is enough most of the time. 220 can be your end goal. You don't need stupid high ap like Feedz or the KR Maehwas to do well. Maehwa is also one of the safest class since you can zupzup superarmor all over the place and not worry about getting cc'ed. Maehwa is for sure one of the strongest duelist. The only real class that should give us trouble is Warrior/Valk since we lack a grab and maybe zerker.

You say "finally hit a stun and can do a combo" but that's basically the way PVP works in bdo. You keep moving around trying to land a cc or bait your opponent so you can kill them with a combo once they are cced. Maehwa is very good in 1v1 because our chase allows us to put a crap ton of pressure on the enemy; we are almost always in super armor and we have a much more reliable guard than our Musa friends. Remember that the main way to win 1v1 in bdo is to hit the cc. Maehwa is very VERY hard to cc. If you chain your abilities with chase, you are literally impossible to cc. The only times we are vulnerable is when we get block locked (this will be removed when we get kr patch since we can chase out of block), tenacious edge (since only frontal guard), and stigma.  

In node wars you can't play like you do in 1v1. If you try to go for your "combo" (i.e moonrise -> frostpillar etc), you have a VERY high chance to get randomly hit by a cc and die just like you said. That's why you will mainly be spamming your bigger aoe + damaging spells (petal drill and petal bloom). If you have any isolated target with no enemies near then you can unload your combo (map awareness is important in node war). Maehwa in node/siege just has to dash around the perimeter. Assasinate any Wiz/Witch/Rangers with our high burst and look for clumps of people to drop a petal bloom on or a 100%. Don't expect to be the warrior that can face tank 10 people get away with a few kills and run away. Maehwa was not made to play like that and i sure as hell hope they don't try to change our class in that direction. Every class has a different playstyle. They all have their specialties. Every class does something better than the others. You can't have a class that does everything at a top tier level. Then everyone would just play that class. 

In duels we are only predictable if you just spam the same pattern (ie. chase back -> block and then petal drill). You have one of the most mobile superarmor skill in the game use it. Bait out your opponents cc's and cooldowns and have them guessing what you are going to do next. Take risks, try to get behind and use tenacious edge to cc. If you rinse and repeat your "safe" engages (like petadrill) then ofc your gameplay becomes predictable. Innovate and test out different moves. Maehwa has such good counter engage too, abuse that. If you want to play the class that always engages then Maehwa might not be your class, Musa suits that playstyle a lot better.

Ok seriously everyone's gotta stop thinking Ranger is such a brain dead class to play because it's not. If you just spam whichever move you want as a Ranger, you are going to get rekt the majority of the time. Frontal Guard is literally the most unreliable way to defend yourself from being cc'ed (this is why you get screwed if you just spam any spell especially frontal guard ones). BTW Rangers need A LOT of gear to be good.

Yes I agree that Maehwa doesn't feel that powerful until you hit levle 58, but most classes feel pretty weak until level 58+. Freaking Warrior doesn't get his hardest hitting spell (correct me if i'm wrong) until level 59. We actually farm pretty damn well. Our skill scaling lets us basically one shot most mobs. Yeah sure they farm faster but that's the way their class was designed. Our skills don't have the aoe like they do to mow down mobs all around us instead we get heavier hitting attacks. If you want a faster grind and not sell your gear i would suggest trying out Musa.

Seriously autoattack? The only time i ever felt like using autoattack was to regenerate wp when i was waiting for mobs to respawn or if the mobs are literally an auto to kill. You have tenacious edge... You can spam moonrise even if it's on cd. Unless you are REALLY against using WP pots then go ahead and use auto. It's not GAME BREAKING if level 59 gives u two autoattacks or even worth mentioning honestly. You do know petal drill->red moon combo is like a 8 second cd.... Petal drill->red moon->petal bloom->moonrise, by the time u do all this your next petal drill should be up and all the mobs should be dead by then....

Once we get the buff we will almost be borderline OP in 1v1 and small scale. They are literally taking our biggest weaknesses away with that patch. If you really hate Maehwa then maybe try another class? Don't sell anything, just buy like a pri liverto, pri offhand, pri green and try it out. Then decide if you want to reroll. 

 

I'm in no way saying we are the strongest class in the game, but we are not weak or even close to trash tier.

Edited by SereneWaves
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Posted

I tried some damage testing on some people with 250+ dp. Even with 160 awakening ap (full accuracy build), I can deal approx. 40% damage with my best damaging awakening skill for ranger. AP is not everything, which is why a lot of people seem to sacrifice AP for accuracy when they reach 230+ AP. 

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Posted

Too weak class, u get so easy stunned,knocked down, grapped that mobility do not help + if are playing vs more than 1 opponent like in node war what make it complete useless class.

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Too weak class, u get so easy stunned,knocked down, grapped that mobility do not help + if are playing vs more than 1 opponent like in node war what make it complete useless class.

You sound super bad to be honest. 

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Posted

You guys weird ( one's who is having issues ) 

 

With that gear 

 

v6NFWlk.png

 

I'm able to kill warriors level 59 - 60 with 300 DP plus it's all about skill , for a warrior i stunt him go on this back knockdown and brust like crazy HP drains alot from S+F combo just in back , just learn your class w.w

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"Yes, with 200-220 AP we can do a lot of damage against 300 DP targets. So can most of the other classes, faster and more reliably without having huge gaps in their super armor during combos. People keep claiming Maehwa is king of 1v1. I don't really understand why? Because we can run away really fast and heal up while doing it, then return and poke and run again until we FINALLY hit a stun and can do a combo?"

 

this is point I was trying to make. conventional logic would dictate that a ranged and/or big aoe class sacrifices raw damage for the range and or area. and then at the same time a single target skill that is short range and is very limited to its damage application range would have a much higher base damage in exchange for the downsides of having very "poop" area. my problem is that the proclaimed "single target class" with the most downsides as far as damage application goes does not have the best damage not only do they not have the best damage but they need more more AP to do the same damage as classes with more aoe and/or range. when you need more ap that means you are doing less base damage than those classes. 

when you say something like "X class has good/bad damage" that is relative to the power of other classes.  so you would have to compare a 200 ap X to a 200 ap Y. not a 240 ap maehwa to a 180 ap sorc. yea a 240 maehwa will do good damage compared to a 180 sorc. but equal level they are kinda meh. and I would be fine with that if it was not for how "single target" our whole kit is.

 

it gets bad in terms of large scale pvp because huge lack of super armor on the actual skills we need to kill someone. it takes us several minutes of skirting around the outside of the battle to find a single possible target to go in for the kill first you need to land the most narrow and short skill in the game then you have to be completely defenceless doing SF combo if even 1 person on their entire 80man+ team even looks at you that entire time you spent just "waiting" out side of the battle providing no value to your team all of a sudden becomes worthless.

meanwhile in the amount of time it took you to simply scout out to kill a single wounded enemy giants/sorcs/witch/wiz/wars/ranges are just jumping into the thick of it laying waste while you are AFK on the side lines waiting.

 

don't get my wrong I like the class. why else would I have stuck with it through the several months DP did not even work when you could have full +15 gear and get 2shot at catfish. but it  just sucks in any team orriented pvp in this game your cold limp body is just being carried by your guild and you are just dead weight that can't really help benefit your team.

surprisingly there is actually a good number of very geared maehwa's who stream and whenever I watch them in RBF they struggle very hard getting even 90 points. and its 4x worse in sieges.

maybe if they changed node wars to be more about spread out objectives and more about strategy and a lot of small scale skirmishes and maybe a few large scale ones rather than the current single objective zerg balls then maehwa would be fine. But atm it just feels like you are a wasted guild slot and you would benefit your guild more just by doing /gquit and get replaced by a wizard with 60 less ap.

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Yep, Im also quite annoyed by the lack on superarmor on some skills. Right now in node/siege war only way to survive is use petal bloom/drill then chase untill cd's are over and repeat... Moonrise should have full superarmor(don't even know what's the point of the half superarmor cuz i never felt like it worked) and Sleet steps should have superarmor while on cooldown. Just that would make the class alot more viable for group pvp.

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Yep, Im also quite annoyed by the lack on superarmor on some skills. Right now in node/siege war only way to survive is use petal bloom/drill then chase untill cd's are over and repeat... Moonrise should have full superarmor(don't even know what's the point of the half superarmor cuz i never felt like it worked) and Sleet steps should have superarmor while on cooldown. Just that would make the class alot more viable for group pvp.

its also not a problem of "just l2p" ether. i see very very well geared 240+ ap maehwa streamers who struggle like mad even getting over 50 points in rbf. and that is an absolute max of 30v30 most of the time its less players than that. imagine in node/sieges where its 100v100 or more if there is more than just 2 guilds contesting the point.

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its also not a problem of "just l2p" ether. i see very very well geared 240+ ap maehwa streamers who struggle like mad even getting over 50 points in rbf. and that is an absolute max of 30v30 most of the time its less players than that. imagine in node/sieges where its 100v100 or more if there is more than just 2 guilds contesting the point.

I'm still a pleb maewha 59 241 ap and i have no problem getting 200+ points every rbf and got top 4 in kills last siege.

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