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Why did they force us into awakening weapons?

95 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

So we had (mostly) fun and interesting combat mechanics for each class. Why did they have to be ditched and replaced with immensely more powerful mechanics that (almost) completely supersede the old mechanics?

Was it because they felt they could not balance all the abilities if they tried to make awakening and non-awakening equal (just different playstyle)? Was it because it was an easy way to add vertical progression into the game? Was it because by forcing people into awakening they generated more playtime hours and thus, more income via cash shop purchases?

Honestly, I can't think of any reason that doesn't make the devs look lazy and/or greedy.

It's a missed opportunity for sure. One of the major complaints for BDO was that each class was bound to one weapon and fighting style only. They had the chance to double the viable weapons per class, but guess what? We're still bound to one weapon and fighting style only.

 

 

Edited by Thomas Gore
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In my opinion. The release of the Awakenings made your class more suitable for special situations in fight. As a sorceress (e.g.) you had a lot of mobility and eye-frames pre-awakening. With the awakening scythe we got less mobility but more space for special combos. Or the ranger had no cc's pre awakening. Now it got compromised with some grabs on his awakening weapon.

In fact: if you want to master your class , you need to play both weapons perfectly together.

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In my opinion. The release of the Awakenings made your class more suitable for special situations in fight. As a sorceress (e.g.) you had a lot of mobility and eye-frames pre-awakening. With the awakening scythe we got less mobility but more space for special combos. Or the ranger had no cc's pre awakening. Now it got compromised with some grabs on his awakening weapon.

In fact: if you want to master your class , you need to play both weapons perfectly together.

Sure. How many abilities of the non-awakening tree you use now again?

Non-awakening is not an option. You need 1-2 skills from the tree plus some passives. The rest of the 20+ skills you will never touch after Awakening.

It wouldn't have to be that way.

 

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I use my bow more than my kamasylven swords..just saying

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Well , i can only reply for your question. Sorceress. The best example are animation cancel's. Here you are going to use knock down combos of the main hand weapon and fast switch to awakening to deal high damage.

-> Midnight Stinger - Side Step - Shadow Eruption (Main hand skills) | C | Back slash - Grim Reaper's Judgement (Awakening wep skills)

Just as an example. Ofc. Non Awakening Skills aren't dealing that much dmg but thanks to the addons i can

- refill my Mana within one skill

- leech hp every 45s

- slow down enemies

- knock down

- buffs

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The same reason they introduced "upgrading" past +15 (apart from the obvious - to feed the hopeless casino junkies more gambling poison, aka "progression"). So everyone can virtually 1-hit anyone in most epic and glorious and awe inspiring "PvP" (perhaps you can exclude classes like Valkyries from this), coupled with the aforementioned gambling / upgrading.

A fail recipe on how to create "content" or otherwise how to totally waste potential and throw to the dogs real content and an otherwise very promising and beautiful game... sadly.

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I like my awakening, its quite stabby.

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Well , i can only reply for your question. Sorceress. The best example are animation cancel's. Here you are going to use knock down combos of the main hand weapon and fast switch to awakening to deal high damage.

-> Midnight Stinger - Side Step - Shadow Eruption (Main hand skills) | C | Back slash - Grim Reaper's Judgement (Awakening wep skills)

you should forget this combo asap, it doesnt make any sense.

we sorcs use non-aw quite a lot tbh, mostly for mobility, block and cc, sometimes for safe dmg with dark flame.

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you should forget this combo asap, it doesnt make any sense.

we sorcs use non-aw quite a lot tbh, mostly for mobility, block and cc, sometimes for safe dmg with dark flame.

well this combo isn't that suitable for PvP thats right. (except you put out back slash AND the fact that eru knocks down your enemy.)

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So we had (mostly) fun and interesting combat mechanics for each class. Why did they have to be ditched and replaced with immensely more powerful mechanics that (almost) completely supersede the old mechanics?

Was it because they felt they could not balance all the abilities if they tried to make awakening and non-awakening equal (just different playstyle)? Was it because it was an easy way to add vertical progression into the game? Was it because by forcing people into awakening they generated more playtime hours and thus, more income via cash shop purchases?

Honestly, I can't think of any reason that doesn't make the devs look lazy and/or greedy.

It's a missed opportunity for sure. One of the major complaints for BDO was that each class was bound to one weapon and fighting style only. They had the chance to double the viable weapons per class, but guess what? We're still bound to one weapon and fighting style only.

 

 

Awakening is just a way of "class upgrade/change", a lot of very successful mmorpgs already have a system like this, like ragnarok or lineage.

About pre awakening not being used... I do use preawakening as much as awakening, but that might be a sorc thing.

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Was it because they felt they could not balance all the abilities if they tried to make awakening and non-awakening equal (just different playstyle)? Was it because it was an easy way to add vertical progression into the game? Was it because by forcing people into awakening they generated more playtime hours and thus, more income via cash shop purchases?

You answered your own question there, after all we've been through, the time you've spent in the game, the poor communication from the devs you've witnessed, what makes it so hard for you to believe that there was any other reason but to generate cheap playtime/longevity and generate more income?

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I liked my Warrior until awakening. I mean, there's nothing wrong with the awakening, I do actually like it. It's just that I miss the badass gladiator feeling that only using a sword and shield can give. Now I'm having to look to Valkyrie for that, but it's just not the same.

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Well , i can only reply for your question. Sorceress. The best example are animation cancel's. Here you are going to use knock down combos of the main hand weapon and fast switch to awakening to deal high damage.

-> Midnight Stinger - Side Step - Shadow Eruption (Main hand skills) | C | Back slash - Grim Reaper's Judgement (Awakening wep skills)

Just as an example. Ofc. Non Awakening Skills aren't dealing that much dmg but thanks to the addons i can

- refill my Mana within one skill

- leech hp every 45s

- slow down enemies

- knock down

- buffs

Sorc is the special snowflake of awakenings. She is generally the only one that actively both weapon sets.

You answered your own question there, after all we've been through, the time you've spent in the game, the poor communication from the devs you've witnessed, what makes it so hard for you to believe that there was any other reason but to generate cheap playtime/longevity and generate more income?

Alot of other Korean games add a class change at a certain level although those generally have branching paths but they do change how your character plays.

you should forget this combo asap, it doesnt make any sense.

we sorcs use non-aw quite a lot tbh, mostly for mobility, block and cc, sometimes for safe dmg with dark flame.

If that combo makes no sense to you then thats suprising. There are other combos. Dream of Doom or Midnight stinger -> C -> Violations -> end Violation with LMB -> Turn Back Slash -> Dead Hunt or Grim Reaper's Judgement.

Awakening is just a way of "class upgrade/change", a lot of very successful mmorpgs already have a system like this, like ragnarok or lineage.

About pre awakening not being used... I do use preawakening as much as awakening, but that might be a sorc thing.

see previous answer to another quote.

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Sorc is the special snowflake of awakenings. She is generally the only one that actively both weapon sets.

Alot of other Korean games add a class change at a certain level although those generally have branching paths but they do change how your character plays.

If that combo makes no sense to you then thats suprising. There are other combos. Dream of Doom or Midnight stinger -> C -> Violations -> end Violation with LMB -> Turn Back Slash -> Dead Hunt or Grim Reaper's Judgement.

see previous answer to another quote.

So it's a Korean thing to ditch a part of the character completely and replace it with another? Damn. Sounds like lazy development for me, but I guess I've been spoiled by western MMO design where one class can have more than one viable gameplay style and any additions only increase the amount of those playstyles.

Sure I do use my grab when I PvP with my warrior, and when moving on foot over longer distances use double (shield) charge, but that's about it.

To be totally honest I don't think they did that good job on balancing the abilities pre-awakening either. Most classes stick to 4-5 abilities when at level 55.

Just baffles me that they'd go through all the trouble designing and animating 20+ abilities and then making most of them utter trash.

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Posted (edited)

Sure. How many abilities of the non-awakening tree you use now again?

Non-awakening is not an option. You need 1-2 skills from the tree plus some passives. The rest of the 20+ skills you will never touch after Awakening.

It wouldn't have to be that way.

 

I play Kuno, Ranger, Zerker. All 3 use non awakening.

Kuno - Uses non awakening for CC/Grab (shadowfall, kunai throw), Movement (ghost step, target chase), and some damaging skills such as fatal blow, tendon cutter, ankle cutter and shadow stomp  (7-9 abilities)

Ranger - Uses bow for CC/longrange engage(Blasting gust, etc), Descending current in siege, still use WOTW sometimes and EES. (4-6 abilities)

Zerker - Lava piercer, the 4 grabs, beastly wind slash and frenzied destroyer, fearsome tyrant, beast roar, wrath of beast, ire of beast (10-12 abilities)

Every single class I just listed uses 4-6 or more abilities from non awakened tree. 

 

Warrior/Musa are the only two classes that don't switch that often, I only see warriors switch for movement and for applying debuffs, and grab

You seem to be playing warrior, so your experience is pretty much way different from every other class, especially zerker whom does alot of swapping. 

Edited by Catclaw

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Posted (edited)

Sure. How many abilities of the non-awakening tree you use now again?

 

 

As a sorc, around 80% of them.

 

You just don't know how to play your class yet. No shame in it.

Edited by Chun-Chun
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I'm glad to hear some classes still use a large portion of their non-awakened skills (and at the same time, feel sorry for those classes players for the skill point grind).

So the question becomes, why were some classes awakenings done "right" and some half-assed? Will they revise skill trees at some point to make weapon switching viable (and needed) for all classes?

 

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I wasn't so bothered about the dropping of skills as the playstyle change on my Maehwa.

 

I ended up re-rolling - the awakening was not what i wanted and the opposite of the reason i rolled the class.

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They force awakening, because new wepaon to enchant = money drain, more grind to do = money drain.

They force awakening instead of only extend gameplay choice because : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

Thoses guys mainly do money milk, not a game anymore.

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Posted (edited)

I'm glad to hear some classes still use a large portion of their non-awakened skills (and at the same time, feel sorry for those classes players for the skill point grind).

So the question becomes, why were some classes awakenings done "right" and some half-assed? Will they revise skill trees at some point to make weapon switching viable (and needed) for all classes?

 

I know some warriors heavily prefer how there class is now. There's no right or wrong here. Some classes swap more, some don't. There's nothing wrong with that. Every class doesn't need to have an equal amount of skills they use from there non-awakened skill tree, that's why each class is different. 

They've said in the future they may release another set of awakenings for each class and that you would pick what awakening you wanted to use. 

Edited by Catclaw

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I know some warriors heavily prefer how there class is now. There's no right or wrong here. Some classes swap more, some don't. There's nothing wrong with that. Every class doesn't need to have an equal amount of skills they use from there non-awakened skill tree, that's why each class is different. 

They've said in the future they may release another set of awakenings for each class and that you would pick what awakening you wanted to use. 

As long as it's a real choice, I'm ok with another awakening. Hopefully it will be, instead another step for vertical progression.

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awakening weapons are for pve and to spice up pvp.

Fighting kamasilva mobs with pre awakening weapons suck.

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I really wish awakenings would have become sidegrades instead of upgrades. I definetly rolled ranger because of the bow, not for using a sword. But i really like the playstyle of awakend witch.

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I know some warriors heavily prefer how there class is now. There's no right or wrong here. Some classes swap more, some don't. There's nothing wrong with that. Every class doesn't need to have an equal amount of skills they use from there non-awakened skill tree, that's why each class is different. 

They've said in the future they may release another set of awakenings for each class and that you would pick what awakening you wanted to use. 

Honestly, I hope they don't release any more awakenings for a long time until they learn to balance the classes. It'll just be the same as before, where classes get another set that's more powerful than the last barring maybe Ninja or Sorc.

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There are things I miss about the pre-awakening period to. Like not dying in 2 hits even though you have average gear lol. You also had to work opponents health down a bit before timing cc+combo to kill equally geared players.

Now PvP is like dash dodge immune dash dodge lag clickdead. Not sure I'll ever get use to that.

Classes felt a lot more unique or true to their archetype, before awakenings. Now they're more simliar design-wise, all based on mele- to mid range high dmg AoE with frontal guard or super armor.

However, PvE at this point would be annoying without awakenings and especially all the grinding required. Some classes where a total joke pre-awakening to, so it was needed.

Anyway, this game isn't a story driven MMORPG. New content will mainly be about making your character stronger in combat and better at things. New regions are basically about new grind spots, new gear drops and getting a higher energy pool. Not partaking in some captivating epic journey where scenes and dialogue gives you goosebumps. That's why they "forced" us into awakenings. It's how PA makes content.

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