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Is BDO P2W?

326 posts in this topic

Posted

Me: "Hey, wanna have a race?"

You: "Yeah sure!!!"

Me: "Ok, first one to +15 starting now!!!" 

Then I went to the cash shop and bought myself weight limit increases, several pets which I bred to T4, a value pack, horse breeding resets and so on. Now being able to play far more efficient than you I race to +15 while you're still trying to snipe a value pack off the market.

I won. Did my payment maaaaaaaaybe have anything to do with it? :) :)  Nono, that's not "p2w-p2w", that is just "p2w". Or maybe it was just "convenient" for me to win?

In other words: You haven't actually thought through your arguement a single time have you? I'm guessing the thought process went something like this:

"Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... WARNING! WARNING!!! BDO CRITICISM!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! ALL HANDS TO STATIONS!!! DEFEND!! DEFEND!!! Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr..."

no, you messed it up  i got to +15 while you still pleasing your boss to get money to buy your p2c stuf while i took vacation for this purpose, you loose :P

 

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Posted

 

 

 i'd pick this over  buying power . gacha o3o

 

I honestly think you don't play this game. When ou get the main currency wrong and try to derail, then idk if its even worth replying further lol

gold ore is worth less than is silver ore in this game, as are the byproducts.  facts, son, facts.

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Posted

Me: "Hey, wanna have a race?"

You: "Yeah sure!!!"

Me: "Ok, first one to +15 starting now!!!" 

Then I went to the cash shop and bought myself weight limit increases, several pets which I bred to T4, a value pack, horse breeding resets and so on. Now being able to play far more efficient than you I race to +15 while you're still trying to snipe a value pack off the market.

I won. Did my payment maaaaaaaaybe have anything to do with it? :) :)  Nono, that's not "p2w-p2w", that is just "p2w". Or maybe it was just "convenient" for me to win?

In other words: You haven't actually thought through your arguement a single time have you? I'm guessing the thought process went something like this:

"Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... WARNING! WARNING!!! BDO CRITICISM!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! ALL HANDS TO STATIONS!!! DEFEND!! DEFEND!!! Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr..."

You've got a real warped idea of what it means to win at a game. 

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Posted

no, you messed it up  i got to +15 while you still pleasing your boss to get money to buy your p2c stuf while i took vacation for this purpose, you loose :P

 

it buuuuuuuuuuurns

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Posted

Me: "Hey, wanna have a race?"

You: "Yeah sure!!!"

Me: "Ok, first one to +15 starting now!!!" 

Then I went to the cash shop and bought myself weight limit increases, several pets which I bred to T4, a value pack, horse breeding resets and so on. Now being able to play far more efficient than you I race to +15 while you're still trying to snipe a value pack off the market.

I won. Did my payment maaaaaaaaybe have anything to do with it? :) :)  Nono, that's not "p2w-p2w", that is just "p2w". Or maybe it was just "convenient" for me to win?

In other words: You haven't actually thought through your arguement a single time have you? I'm guessing the thought process went something like this:

"Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... WARNING! WARNING!!! BDO CRITICISM!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! ALL HANDS TO STATIONS!!! DEFEND!! DEFEND!!! Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr... Hurrr durr durr durr..."

well it give you a chance by grinding to play the game if you dont wanna spend money. P2W is actually buying armor or weapon for better stats or something that you can;t get ingame for 5 month farming... if you spend money you can get things faster that's the trick as i can see... im new here anyway :)

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Posted (edited)

All these fanboys defending this game for not being p2w: Get yourself in end-game enchanting (TRI+), think about artisans memories. Enough said. Artisans memory is the worst, but cash shop is full of more "minor" things too.

BDO is literally pay-to-win, no matter how much you hype and like the game.

Edited by Miki

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Posted

And if BDO is P2W, what are you going to do about it?

There are two options for you. 

1. Quit.

2. Continue to play.

 

The NA/EU version is the super light version of the KR version and thank God for that. So be happy for what we got here.

 

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Posted

A lot of writing

I will not give you any numbers here

You have all the time to write up a large response, but can't be bothered to provide ANY evidence? Why is that my friend? :) 

And dont ask for proves of it pls

"Let me just pull some numbers out of the air, but don't ask fro any proof!!!!!!"

Your argument is extremely weak until you provide evidence for the figures. 12 fails on average for +15? Where's your evidence please. :) 

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Posted

Premise 1 is true because you are purchasing the item in game with money you earned in game.  It isn't a free gift that someone can just give to you.  In the first place buying a pet isn't going to ensure you win anything but putting that aside I have not paid any real money for the pet.  I was out grinding for hours to earn that in game silver in order to purchase the pet.

Premise 2 is true because you are buying the pet with in game money and not with real money.  You fail to consider that I would have had to devote considerable amount of my time earning the in game silver to make the purchase with.  Again, I am not using real money to make the purchase I used silver I earned by playing the game.

Premise 3 is true if premise 1 and 2 are true.and both are true therefore premise 3 is true because it is based on premise 1 and 2.  If I purchase the pet in game at the market I am not paying to win I am playing to win if you wish to put a label on it.

1. Wrong, ppl can gift you pearl items for free if they so wish. Are you denying that the pets being sold trough the marketplace are paid for with real money? You being out grinding silver is not what puts the pet into the game.

2. See 1.

3. See 2.

If every1 was like you no1 would ever get a pet trough the marketplace, if every1 was the opposite of you no1 would buy all the pets sitting on the marketplace.

You gotta realize sooner or later that you are playing a multiplayer game and what other ppl do in the game does affect you.

Like I keep repeating over and over.  People have distorted the definition of the phrase p2w to obscurity. 

Your false analogy of a car with a cup holder not being a car because the first car didn't have cup holders is just plain stupid.  It is still a car.  Now a better analogy would be to take the cup holder that goes in a car out of the car and then calling it a car.  Pay to win still means pay to win but if you take away the items, such as weapons and armor that is much better than anything available in game without spending real money, then it is no longer pay to win but is instead called "pay for convenience". 

People, I believe, misuse the phrase "pay to win" because of the very negative emotional response it generates in gamers.  Much like the way the various animal exploitation industries label animal rights activist as terrorist (which they aren't).  Its a phrase used to stir emotions and is actually propaganda and is being used by people that are opposed to games allowing people to purchase convenience items on the cash shop.  Calling a game "pay to win" has a much greater impact on peoples emotions than calling a game "pay for convenience".

The definition of what a terrorist is hasn't changed it just being misused by people for their own agenda just like the misuse of the phrase "pay to win".

Swiping your credit card isn't the only way to get that gear so no it's not p2w.  If it was the only way to obtain tet gear then the game would be p2w but it's not.  Making it more convenient to obtain the best gear isn't "pay to win" it's "pay for convenience".  There is a big difference between taking less time to obtain the best gear and buying the best gear that can't be obtained any other way except by buying it with real money.

I think both I and others have said this before but it is your defenition of p2w that is wrong because it does not factor in TIME.

 

Following example will not be p2w by your defenition:

We take an average player, Bob, Bob has a daytime job, a wife but no kids so he got plenty of free time on his hands.

One day Bob gets his ass handed to him in Sausans because he tought he could take an occupied farm spot trough PvP.

Bob gets killed several times and decided to leave Sausans because he was not having fun anymore.

Bob's wife sees that her husband is sad and decides to help him out a bit so she gifts him 20 x Dank Spirits Uber Buff* (consumable, +250 AP/DP for 6h) that she bought in the pearl store for 39,90€ a ten.

For the next ~3 weeks Bob feels like the king of Sausans because all the mobs and the majority of players trying to stop him dies in 1 hit.

And all this without him paying a single cent of real money therefore the game is not p2w.

 

*Dank Spirits Uber Buff is also avalible in the loyalty store for 25 000 loyalty a piece.

 

If you despite my brilliant example still believe your defenition to be the right one could you pls specify where the limit for "can be obtainable ingame" goes?

 

*disclaimer* Bob is a fictional character and his actions and/or opinions regarding grinding etiquette does not represent those of Korvgubben inc.

And if BDO is P2W, what are you going to do about it?

There are two options for you. 

1. Quit.

2. Continue to play.

 

The NA/EU version is the super light version of the KR version and thank God for that. So be happy for what we got here.

 

3. Quit and dedicate your significant boost in free time to make the forums salty.

4. Continue playing and respond honestly to the numerous "is the game p2w?" threads that pop up on the forums.

Im going with 4. I do not make p2w threads, I dont even respond to them unless certain criteria are met and no1 else have already stated my oppinion in a satisfactory way.

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Posted

it is your defenition of p2w that is wrong because it does not factor in TIME.

Firstly that's a logical fallacy, you're stating that there is only YOUR definition of P2W. 

Secondly, it's PAY2W, not TIME2W.

Thirdly it'll take over 40 weeks for a cash shop user to be able to afford merely the best items on the marketplace.

Fourthly you've used another logical fallacy with your "example".

Please learn how to argue. :) 

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Posted

Can someone tell me how to p2w a tri ogre? I already spent 6bil on it.. Can i just get it with $$? 

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Posted

It's very clearly pay for convenience, or pay for expedience in my eyes. You can't buy top end gear off the pearl shop. However, you can enchant your top end gear for cheaper by using pearl items to get more out of your durability repairs. You can make your fishing pole work for longer while you're AFK fishing at work with a pearl item. You can expand your inventory space and weight capacity so you can grind/gather for longer before returning to town. You can enlist a herd of pets to loot for you. 

The only thing that's a little suspect in my eyes is ghillie suits - there is some advantage from having one because it's much easier to spot a name plate. However this is tempered by minimap and simply getting accustomed to the dull red glow of a flagged player. 

One thing I'm really glad about is that RMT through pearl shop (putting items on market) is a terrible return on investment. Anyone can make 24m in ~1-4 hours of grinding depending on your level and gear, which means $34 against that is paying an extremely steep price. Isn't there a 100m/week cap on pearl item sales also? 

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Posted

Yes the game is P2W, there are lots of examples, it's still fun to play though and worth the purchase price.

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Posted (edited)

IMO the definition of pay to win is warped by many players who simply hate any kind of progression advantage attainable through money. Pay to Win normally implies that you can get items on the cash shop which are both unattainable through normal gameplay and allow you tremendous advantage over other players. For example, a cash shop potion which makes you immune to all CC for 15 seconds when you click it. A cash shop weapon (or a gem you can insert in your weapon) that does more damage than any player attainable weapon. A cash shop item that instantly heals you to full and makes you immune to damage for X seconds. These kind of things fall into the realm of PAY TO WIN. 

Pay for convenience usually relates to speeding up progression or making progression easier, such as what we have available in this game. You have XP boosts, faster looting, cheaper durability repairs, etc. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Posted

1. Firstly that's a logical fallacy, you're stating that there is only YOUR definition of P2W. 

2. Secondly, it's PAY2W, not TIME2W.

3. Thirdly it'll take over 40 weeks for a cash shop user to be able to afford merely the best items on the marketplace.

4. Fourthly you've used another logical fallacy with your "example".

Please learn how to argue. :) 

1. Wrong, im stating that his defenition is wrong not that mine is the only correct one.

 

2. Time is money.

 

3. While technically correct prooving that 1 grain of sand isnt a beach holds very little real value in a discussion.

 

4. No. My example was only made to show how that its irrelevant if the person bought the item themselves or where gifted them.

 

Arguing is not like mathematics. You cant split up ppls arguments into tiny pieces and proove every little piece wrong individually.

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Posted

I love pay to win.  It allows me to lord it over the lesser, unwashed masses.  The little people.  If you complainers work hard for 30+ years, study and stay at it it, you too can experience the pay to win good life.

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Posted

1. Wrong, im stating that his defenition is wrong not that mine is the only correct one.

No, you've used an appeal to definition to state that HIS definition is wrong and therefore yours is right. Where's your evidence that his definition is wrong please? Where's your source that yours is correct? Disagreeing with something doesn't make it wrong. 

2. Time is money.

Cool, got any more Facebook quotes that are plastered over a sun setting to share with us? Since you want to use this argument, as it takes over 40 weeks for a cash shop user to use the silver they've made to buy the "best" gear on the marketplace then using your own argument the game is not P2W. As time is money, 40 weeks is a lot of time and therefore a waste of money.

What next? If you can't handle me at my worst you can't handle me at my best?

3. While technically correct prooving that 1 grain of sand isnt a beach holds very little real value in a discussion.

You're saying it holds very little real value for the sole reason that it destroys your "argument". You agreed that it is correct, so the game isn't P2W. :) 

4. No. My example was only made to show how that its irrelevant if the person bought the item themselves or where gifted them.

No, you made an example of an item that not only isn't in the game but isn't even in the Korean version. You had no argument, so you used a logical fallacy to create an argument that hadn't been made. Since we're making stuff up let me try.

Bob doesn't use real money in the game, the system sees that he's spent less than $10 in the cash shop and awards him with a permanent buff of 250 to AP and DP, this means the game isn't P2W. 

As I said, please learn how to argue.

Arguing is not like mathematics. You cant split up ppls arguments into tiny pieces and proove every little piece wrong individually.

You can't, you destroy each point they make and then sum it all up in a witty conclusion. You're crying because not only did you not have an argument, but you were caught out because of it. :) 

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Posted (edited)

No, you've used an appeal to definition to state that HIS definition is wrong and therefore yours is right. Where's your evidence that his definition is wrong please? Where's your source that yours is correct? Disagreeing with something doesn't make it wrong. 

Prooving that his definition is wrong doesnt automaticly mean that my definition is right. Thats an error in your interpretation.

 

Cool, got any more Facebook quotes that are plastered over a sun setting to share with us? Since you want to use this argument, as it takes over 40 weeks for a cash shop user to use the silver they've made to buy the "best" gear on the marketplace then using your own argument the game is not P2W. As time is money, 40 weeks is a lot of time and therefore a waste of money.

What next? If you can't handle me at my worst you can't handle me at my best?

Maybe you havent been around for much longer than Facebook but that saying is actually quite a lot older.

And here you did it again, you cherry-picked one feature avalible, the costume to silver via marketplace, which you yourself have concluded not being p2w due to the amount of silver earned can easily be made up by grinding instead for a short amount of time. By stating this you obviously acknowledges that time is indeed a factor in the p2w definition.

 

You're saying it holds very little real value for the sole reason that it destroys your "argument". You agreed that it is correct, so the game isn't P2W. :) 

Read above.

 

No, you made an example of an item that not only isn't in the game but isn't even in the Korean version. You had no argument, so you used a logical fallacy to create an argument that hadn't been made. Since we're making stuff up let me try.

Bob doesn't use real money in the game, the system sees that he's spent less than $10 in the cash shop and awards him with a permanent buff of 250 to AP and DP, this means the game isn't P2W. 

As I said, please learn how to argue.

The contents of my example where all fictionally made up to fit into the frame of his p2w definition. Whether the items exists is completely irrelevant.

The made up item also fits the rules regarding the existing items in the pearl shop as in they are avalible for real money OR by ingame currency.

 

There are already items avalible in the pearl store that gives you a higher peak performance, all buffs included. Nothing nearly as huge as my made up item but that was never the point of my example either.

 

You can't, you destroy each point they make and then sum it all up in a witty conclusion. You're crying because not only did you not have an argument, but you were caught out because of it. :) 

Thats why you are wrong here. Cherry-picking lines and "destroy" them out of context doesnt actually provide any valid arguments. It just gives the illusion of it because ppl that read your posts will read each part that you picked apart in the way you want them to read it and not in its original context.

Edited by Korvgubben

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Posted

Haha he goes nuts when you do it to him though :P Always, always loses and then slinks away for a while haha :D 

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Posted

Holy shit, you people are insane to keep that argument going still... xD

It's pretty simple. You can Pay. But you cannot Win.

Can you save yourself some time and achieve certain things faster, if you put your CC to use? Sure.

Does that mean you Won anything? No.

Are there limits on how much cash you can sink in? Yes.

Are there limits on how much time you can sink in? No.

Is BDO P2W? No.

That's it.

All of it.

Now you can start explaining yourselves from the beginning yet again lol

 

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Posted

Prooving that his definition is wrong doesnt automaticly mean that my definition is right. Thats an error in your interpretation.

You haven't proved his defition is wrong though, you've merely cried that his definition is right because it doesn't agree with your definition, which is the essence of a logical fallacy. :) 

Maybe you havent been around for much longer than Facebook but that saying is actually quite a lot older.

Doesn't matter how old it is, the saying "This too shall pass" has been around centuries, doesn't meant it'll lend any weight to your argument. 

And here you did it again, you cherry-picked one feature avalible, the costume to silver via marketplace, which you yourself have concluded not being p2w due to the amount of silver earned can easily be made up by grinding instead for a short amount of time. By stating this you obviously acknowledges that time is indeed a factor in the p2w definition.

Time isn't a factor in P2W, it's a factor in P4C (pay for convenience. Saving time by using the cash shop doesn't suddenly give you better gear, it merely makes life easier for you. Someone could spend 16 hours grinding pirates  

Read above.

The contents of my example where all fictionally made up to fit into the frame of his p2w definition. Whether the items exists is completely irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant, you used strawman because you don't know how to argue. 

His definition of P2W = "If you can get gear ONLY by swiping your card" as shown in this phrase "If it was the only way to obtain tet gear then the game would be p2w but it's not"

Since you can get TET gear via playing the game and in fact you can earn it FASTER than by selling marketplace items your whole argument goes to shreds. Hence why you have to use a strawman fallacy. :) 

The made up item also fits the rules regarding the existing items in the pearl shop as in they are avalible for real money OR by ingame currency.

The made up item doesn't fit because your made up item offers an EXCLUSIVE buff to AP/DP which are what matter in a fight. Please show me ONE item that is exclusive to the cash shop that increases your AP/DP and I will happily join the P2W brigade. 

There are already items avalible in the pearl store that gives you a higher peak performance, all buffs included. Nothing nearly as huge as my made up item but that was never the point of my example either.

Higher peak performance? You mean they allow you to get buffs which can be re-created for free? 

Thats why you are wrong here. Cherry-picking lines and "destroy" them out of context doesnt actually provide any valid arguments. It just gives the illusion of it because ppl that read your posts will read each part that you picked apart in the way you want them to read it and not in its original context.

I've quoted every single part of your argument, you're more than welcome to keep grasping at straws. If you're crying because I separate each point then you've already shown that you never had any points to make. :) 

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Posted

Are there limits on how much cash you can sink in? Yes.

Are there limits on how much time you can sink in? No.

 

 

Well, the first is entirely dependent on your credit card limit.

As for the second, there are only 24 hours in a day and you are in the same boat as everyone else on that.

 

Thirdly it'll take over 40 weeks for a cash shop user to be able to afford merely the best items on the marketplace.

 

That's only true if the only thing the "cash shop user" does is log in to the game once a week for five minutes to list their pearl items and then logs off again and doesn't play.

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Posted (edited)

You have all the time to write up a large response, but can't be bothered to provide ANY evidence? Why is that my friend? :) 

"Let me just pull some numbers out of the air, but don't ask fro any proof!!!!!!"

Your argument is extremely weak until you provide evidence for the figures. 12 fails on average for +15? Where's your evidence please. :) 

Man you are really pathethic... i already give up on asking you hard questions, cause you demand proves of my RNG knowing that obviously i dont have stored screenshots of every enchant attempts i ever did on rare items... Evidence of average 12 fails to get tri (learn  to read i said clearly its 12 fails to get tri when starting from +15, not from +0 to +15)? Its simple math, do i need to teach you how to count? You have chart here:

http://i.imgur.com/FVOIeco.png

I used this chart to count average number of fails you have when enchanting from +15 to tri... When you know chances of success on every enchant step you can count average number of fails easly... You got capped 52,5% chance to get pri, 33,75% chance to get duo, 27% chance to get tri, counting average number of fails when you know that numbers isnt hard and its simple math!! What else evidence you need? You are educated, arent you? 
 

Anyway like i said before SINCE SIMPLE MATH IS TOO HARD FOR YOU i already give up on asking even this question and make it even simpler!! You not need to answer to this one, just answer to my new one:

 

Since my post is long i know you will try to avoid answering questions i asked,hoping noone will saw this, thats why i will ask it in separate post again... Since you avoided first question on purpose ridiculously demanding proves on my RNG its obvious for me you really have big problem with math... Thats why i will make it as simple as i can for you and ask again: 

How much silver you think one artisan memory can save? Like i said in long post using 1 artisan memory you can save 1,5m (using it with memory fragment on yellow or blue piece) or around 2,25m (if you use it on liverto with other liverto to repair 30 durability)... . How long you need at sausan to farm 1,5m and 2,25m? Around 9 and 13 minutes, right? Then we can safely assume that you spend 4 days worth of loyalty on ammount of silver that you can achieve in 9  and 13 minutes grind at sausan... Are artisan memories bought with loyalty then viable option or not? Yes or no?

Stop avoiding whats important and answer to this one!! There is no need to provide evidences in this one!! 

 

And where is your answer about your fail with whole statement that "more attempts dont increase chance for successfull enchant"? Why you keep avoiding to answer and dont admit you were wrong about it? I provided you chart with cummulative probability that show clearly that you were wrong...

Where is your math about chance to make pri with two tries? You were supposed to do math after 40 mins, still nothing from you after 1 day...

Where is your answer about investing method? i already said that whole point of this method is that- first you cant do it without pearls items, cause you need to be rank 1 in all four cities, not in just one... Second its not about 16,6m per day being a lot or not... Its about fact that you need to spend ONLY AROUND 1 MINUTE DAILY to five task to workers and profit that 16,6m... How much money you can earn at sausan in 1 minute again? Its same as selling costumes on  Mp, except fact that you buy furnitures only one time and they last forever...

When you will admit that you were wrong with screenshot of crystal extraction tool you posted before, since it wasnt available for players yet at time you posted it?

 

Stop avoiding meritum of my posts and answer that simple questions!!

 

Edited by Dorsai

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That's only true if the only thing the "cash shop user" does is log in to the game once a week for five minutes to list their pearl items and then logs off again and doesn't play.

We're discussing the time=money argument here, so ideally the cash shop user isn't playing much and is trying to P2W their way. 

IF we say that a cash shop and normal user are each earning 50 million a day, then it comes down to a time of 12.2 weeks and although this is 4 weeks faster than a normal user it does come at a cost of $2,400 for a mixture of TET/TRI/DUO and un-enchanted gear as shown in the linked thread. 

I'm not making the argument that life isn't easier for a cash shop user, I'm making the argument that (as far as my definition and the definition generally accepted on the internet) the game is not P2W. Cash shop users can't buy exclusive gear and they can't get the gear at a faster rate than a normal use to the point the game is unbalanced. A cash shop users gear either depends on what they can buy off the marketplace or their RNG. 

 

There is no need to provide evidences in this one!! 

 

Then there's no need for me to reply to your points. Provide evidence for your statements and I'll happily discuss them with you, if all you have is a quick GoogleDoc with the supposed figures that you think are true; then you have no evidence. Continue to ignore my demands for evidence and all you'll get back is quirky one liners. :) 

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Posted (edited)

Then there's no need for me to reply to your points. Provide evidence for your statements and I'll happily discuss them with you, if all you have is a quick GoogleDoc with the supposed figures that you think are true; then you have no evidence. Continue to ignore my demands for evidence and all you'll get back is quirky one liners. :) 

Since you not believe in chart most players who enchant their gear use then you can ignore this question and answer new one... I already said that i  give up asking this question, why you keep demanding proves on question i give up already? Just ignore it already and answer new one!!

 

Since my post is long i know you will try to avoid answering questions i asked,hoping noone will saw this, thats why i will ask it in separate post again... Since you avoided first question on purpose ridiculously demanding proves on my RNG its obvious for me you really have big problem with math... Thats why i will make it as simple as i can for you and ask again: 

How much silver you think one artisan memory can save? Like i said in long post using 1 artisan memory you can save 1,5m (using it with memory fragment on yellow or blue piece) or around 2,25m (if you use it on liverto with other liverto to repair 30 durability)... . How long you need at sausan to farm 1,5m and 2,25m? Around 9 and 13 minutes, right? Then we can safely assume that you spend 4 days worth of loyalty on ammount of silver that you can achieve in 9  and 13 minutes grind at sausan... Are artisan memories bought with loyalty then viable option or not? Yes or no?

And where is your answer about your fail with whole statement that "more attempts dont increase chance for successfull enchant"? Why you keep avoiding to answer and dont admit you were wrong about it? I provided you chart with cummulative probability that show clearly that you were wrong...

Where is your math about chance to make pri with two tries? You were supposed to do math after 40 mins, still nothing from you after 1 day...

Where is your answer about investing method? i already said that whole point of this method is that- first you cant do it without pearls items, cause you need to be rank 1 in all four cities, not in just one... Second its not about 16,6m per day being a lot or not... Its about fact that you need to spend ONLY AROUND 1 MINUTE DAILY to five task to workers and profit that 16,6m... How much money you can earn at sausan in 1 minute again? Its same as selling costumes on  Mp, except fact that you buy furnitures only one time and they last forever...

When you will admit that you were wrong with screenshot of crystal extraction tool you posted before, since it wasnt available for players yet at time you posted it?

 

Stop avoiding meritum of my posts and answer that simple questions!!

 

 

Edited by Dorsai

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