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Gifting Trade Deals

133 posts in this topic

Posted

Greetings Adventures,

 

At Kakao Games we look to promote a safe and friendly gaming environment and create a place where everyone can enjoy Black Desert Online to the fullest. Part of our policies to ensure this means we do not tolerate players scamming each other. In the past, we have dealt swiftly with several exploits and punished players harshly for in game scams. Such as deceiving players into sending out Gift Letter of Repayments.

 

Recently, we’ve become aware of players making deals using the gifting system to offer incentives for placing items on the market place. We would like to offer some transparency on our policies for this.

Example:

Player 1 has told Player 2 that he will gift him 1 Horse Armor Set and 2 Pets if Player 2 lists a Dandelion Longsword on the Market Place.  Player 2 requires the pearl items be sent to him before he lists the item, Player 1 agrees and sends the items.

The gifting system is intended as a way to give items to your friends or loved ones. It is not supposed to be a means to facilitate in game trading. However, since at every stage of the transaction, our normal mechanics are being used, if done honestly, we do not consider this to be a violation of the terms of use.

We want to remind you, there are multiple problems with making this kind of deal. Firstly, even if both parties do everything in their power to make it work, there is no way to be certain the intended person will receive the item from the market place. Secondly, not everyone is honest and people will try to scam you! We strongly urge you not to arrange such a deal unless you are willing to take the risk of losing all of the items involved.

Additionally, anybody caught scamming other players, will have their accounts suspended and all gains removed. This could include item deletion or even downgrading your gear.

Items and/or pearls will not be restored to the gifting player.

We hope this clears up the questions you may have had about these transactions and once again urge you to avoid risking such deals.

Player 1 wants the Item.

Player 2 has the Item

Player 1 offers 3 pets.

Player 2 accepts. 

Player 2 lists the item.

Player 1 logs on alt > different name > buys the item > Logs on main > "Man, i am sorry, i havent bought the item".

What can Player 2 do ? Nothing, literally nothing, right ?

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Posted (edited)

Player 1 wants the Item.

Player 2 has the Item

Player 1 offers 3 pets.

Player 2 accepts. 

Player 2 lists the item.

Player 1 logs on alt > different name > buys the item > Logs on main > "Man, i am sorry, i havent bought the item".

What can Player 2 do ? Nothing, literally nothing, right ?

Just ask for print screens of all the characters that person has.

Edited by Stellary

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Posted (edited)

You guys really think they will investigate when some random dude sends a ticket that he got scammed? They haven't got time for that nonsense.

Edited by yabbadabbadoo
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Posted

Just ask for print screens of all the characters that person has.

like its hard to edit a text screen, right ?

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Posted

Nice Dandelion Longsword you have there.

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Posted

o/

WTT Guild for TET Nouver

i have a t8 now u jelly? 

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Posted

Why don't they have have P2P trading? Gold traders is the main reason and it blows my mind that some of you are dumb enough to not know this yet. Gifting at a chance at getting something is not the smartest idea since RNG also plays a role in the preorder system.

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Posted

So you're going to allow the trades because you stand to gain money from it and are banking on the fact if anyone is serious enough about the game to pay real money for a weapon that even if they do get scammed they'll keep playing and keep paying? That's how it looks to me. Trades such as these should just be bannable outright. Now instead of things simply being listed on mp people are asking well what more will you give me? I want x and y now on top of the silver. Sick of seeing this crap in ch chat. It's just asking for scams to happen. 

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Posted

Player 1 wants the Item.

Player 2 has the Item

Player 1 offers 3 pets.

Player 2 accepts. 

Player 2 lists the item.

Player 1 logs on alt > different name > buys the item > Logs on main > "Man, i am sorry, i havent bought the item".

What can Player 2 do ? Nothing, literally nothing, right ?

like its hard to edit a text screen, right ?

Just ask for print screens of all the characters that person has.

Friend list, add to group "dumb with dande" for player1 and "dumb with money" for player2

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Posted (edited)

Items and/or pearls will not be restored to the gifting player.

I remember in TERA the gm's always helped out a person that was scammed and restored everything to the victim and permanently banned the scammer. That's why it was so rare that people ever got scammed in the first place. This is just bad customer service, plain and simple.

I was playing TERA online and customer service was really bad.

Edited by Gumeleon
2 people like this

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Posted

Greetings Adventures,

 

At Kakao Games we look to promote a safe and friendly gaming environment and create a place where everyone can enjoy Black Desert Online to the fullest. Part of our policies to ensure this means we do not tolerate players scamming each other. In the past, we have dealt swiftly with several exploits and punished players harshly for in game scams. Such as deceiving players into sending out Gift Letter of Repayments.

 

Recently, we’ve become aware of players making deals using the gifting system to offer incentives for placing items on the market place. We would like to offer some transparency on our policies for this.

Example:

Player 1 has told Player 2 that he will gift him 1 Horse Armor Set and 2 Pets if Player 2 lists a Dandelion Longsword on the Market Place.  Player 2 requires the pearl items be sent to him before he lists the item, Player 1 agrees and sends the items.

The gifting system is intended as a way to give items to your friends or loved ones. It is not supposed to be a means to facilitate in game trading. However, since at every stage of the transaction, our normal mechanics are being used, if done honestly, we do not consider this to be a violation of the terms of use.

We want to remind you, there are multiple problems with making this kind of deal. Firstly, even if both parties do everything in their power to make it work, there is no way to be certain the intended person will receive the item from the market place. Secondly, not everyone is honest and people will try to scam you! We strongly urge you not to arrange such a deal unless you are willing to take the risk of losing all of the items involved.

Additionally, anybody caught scamming other players, will have their accounts suspended and all gains removed. This could include item deletion or even downgrading your gear.

Items and/or pearls will not be restored to the gifting player.

We hope this clears up the questions you may have had about these transactions and once again urge you to avoid risking such deals.

wow 16 posts so much you got to say im impressed

 

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Posted (edited)

 

Firstly, I am surprised you allow this at all...  It opens up a HUGE can of worms with regards to scams an abuse, not to mention the whole "we'll ban them but you aren't getting your pearls back" stance makes you all look rather greedy/uncaring. 

That being said, If this is all not really wanted but something you are going to technically allow anyway, why not look at the underlying problem(s) causing it instead?   I totally get the whole not having P2P trading and am fine with having to let the marketplace gods determine who actually get anything I sell, but the problem here is that the artificial price floors/ceilings simply don't keep up with the actual in-game economy.

You have this whole problem to begin with because both players value said item more then the marketplace will allow.  In your example of two players and a Dandelion Greatsword.  The greatsword itself has a market cap of 95mil as of this writing.  Player1 obviously values it more then 95m because they are willing to gift Player2 additional things to entice them into a trade attempt.  Player2 values the greatsword more then 95mil because if he didn't he'd just sell it on the market to begin with.  Naturally this should all be obvious considering preorders for most dandelion stuff is in the few hundreds of millions.  If seller and buyer (in general, not the specific Player1/Player2 in this example) both value the greatsword to be more then 95 then the market should allow for that with either there being more pliable caps or  no caps at all.  It will still be totally open for anyone else to bid on, thus ruining any attempt at guaranteed, or even likely direct p2p/goldseller trade.

Rather then allow the market to accept these values ( or a least ones that are more pliable to supply and demand) you currently leave players with the options of A) Purposely selling at a price far lower then everyone values an item at or B) Enter into a dubious trade where the three outcomes are the highly unlikely "Everyone was honest and RNGesus allowed everything to go exactly as planned" , the "Player1 could scam Player2 by not gifting after and there is nothing player2 could do to prove it" or the "Player 2 gets his gifts up front and can take a video or stream of himself posting items as proof but its unlikely Player1 will win those so Player1 end up with nothing."  

Obviously players aren't going to like either choice.   A is horrible because that's like saying "Who will give me $10 for this crisp new $50 bill.  B because it  is just a whole lot of situations where the only person not getting screwed over is the one selling the pearls.  However, with no other options available to them, you are seeing people choose the lesser of two evils with the gift-trading as it isn't a guaranteed way to screw yourself over, just a most likely.   Overall neither is really conducive to a functional economy, a good player community or a good Player/Studio relationship.  It would probably be in the games best interest in the long run to work at the problem rather then just saying you'll allow the bandaid solution.

 

 

tl:dr  Just let the markets have better or no caps on things so we aren't forced into this stupid situation in the first place. 

It'll fix a lot of problems for the players, prevent the torrent of tickets relating to scams that your support department is no doubt about to get, and remove the dodgy scam situaions/chat spam for the rest of us.  If you are worried about people selling too many of X on the market or something stupid like that then at a cap to how many we can sell in a week like pearl items.  Just don't force people to choose between a guaranteed self-screwing or a most likely self-screwing as their only options. 

 

 

p.s.  I would certainly hope now you've taken an official stance on this and have stated you'll be banning people that supposedly scam others in said situation that you'll actually hear both players side of a story.   I certainly wouldn't want to be Player 2 (the seller) in this situation ,who can actually produce proof, and be banned because Player 1 has no way to tell what happened and thinks the only possible explanation is Player 2 cheated him.  Kind of like how Player 1 can't win any bids on pets/costumes because of the 100's of marketplace bots sniping bids.  Totally has nothing to do with the other 1000s of people with notifications/maids and pre-orders wanting the same popular items ;)

Edited by 2monthslatenonamesleft
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Posted

"At Kakao Games we look to promote a safe and friendly gaming environment and create a place where everyone can enjoy Black Desert Online to the fullest. Part of our policies to ensure this means we do not tolerate players scamming each other."

 

Nice try Tumblr. Keep trying to convince people this game is a sandbox lol

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Posted

Greetings Adventures,

 

At Kakao Games we look to promote a safe and friendly gaming environment and create a place where everyone can enjoy Black Desert Online to the fullest. Part of our policies to ensure this means we do not tolerate players scamming each other. In the past, we have dealt swiftly with several exploits and punished players harshly for in game scams. Such as deceiving players into sending out Gift Letter of Repayments.

 

Recently, we’ve become aware of players making deals using the gifting system to offer incentives for placing items on the market place. We would like to offer some transparency on our policies for this.

Example:

Player 1 has told Player 2 that he will gift him 1 Horse Armor Set and 2 Pets if Player 2 lists a Dandelion Longsword on the Market Place.  Player 2 requires the pearl items be sent to him before he lists the item, Player 1 agrees and sends the items.

The gifting system is intended as a way to give items to your friends or loved ones. It is not supposed to be a means to facilitate in game trading. However, since at every stage of the transaction, our normal mechanics are being used, if done honestly, we do not consider this to be a violation of the terms of use.

We want to remind you, there are multiple problems with making this kind of deal. Firstly, even if both parties do everything in their power to make it work, there is no way to be certain the intended person will receive the item from the market place. Secondly, not everyone is honest and people will try to scam you! We strongly urge you not to arrange such a deal unless you are willing to take the risk of losing all of the items involved.

Additionally, anybody caught scamming other players, will have their accounts suspended and all gains removed. This could include item deletion or even downgrading your gear.

Items and/or pearls will not be restored to the gifting player.

We hope this clears up the questions you may have had about these transactions and once again urge you to avoid risking such deals.

How about a better enhancement system?

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Posted

So, to clarify,  it's ok to violate terms as long as Kakao gets a cut?  Cool.  Good to know. 

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Posted (edited)

Items and/or pearls will not be restored to the gifting player.

I remember in TERA the gm's always helped out a person that was scammed and restored everything to the victim and permanently banned the scammer. That's why it was so rare that people ever got scammed in the first place. This is just bad customer service, plain and simple.

Tera has player to player trading of cash items. Only things you couldn't sell were drops such as quils back in the day and names, neither of which a gm is going to help out with, at least not in tera EU for sure.

Edited by Lanifair

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Posted (edited)

Player 1 wants the Item.

Player 2 has the Item

Player 1 offers 3 pets.

Player 2 accepts. 

Player 2 lists the item.

Player 1 logs on alt > different name > buys the item > Logs on main > "Man, i am sorry, i havent bought the item".

What can Player 2 do ? Nothing, literally nothing, right ?

It's not like it even tells you who buys the item so that seems unnecessary. Plus, I think most offer gifts just to list an item, not only on the condition that they win it.

That said, I'm not really a big fan of gifting being able to be used this way in general. Should be against the terms of use period.

Edited by Asata

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Posted (edited)

Solution:

Player 1 has item

Player 2 wants item

Player 1 opens trade window. He lists the item. 

<if item value - 100.000.000 / 1000+ pearls value item should be added to trade window

<if item value - 300.000.000 / 3000+ pearls value item/s should be added to trade window 

<if item value 1.350.000.000 / 13500+ pearls  value item/s should be added to trade window

100.000 / 1+ ratio should be decent.

1/3/5 trades per week should be decent also. 

So, another method for Kakao to sell more pearls is to allow trading between players with pearls and cash. 

Player 2 can make auctions and pick the right buyer, the one who will spend more pearls for the item.

<if player 2 sells 1 dandelion and 5 players wants the item, player 2 can pick the highest bidder and sell it to him for even more pearls.

Kakao wins

Player 2 wins

Buyer wins even if he spends TONS of cash for it.

if 1 trade to player per week this cant be exploitable. nobody will want to pay 20-100+ euro just for the trade if its not the omfg item he wants. The thing is at some point trade should be allowed BUT with pearls as 2nd token. 

Edited by Elite

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Posted (edited)

Just disable gifting again.  The game was fine for 10 months without it.  If you want to gift things to your "friends and loved ones" open a pay pal...really.. it's just another slow implemention of more P2W mechanics so the community won't rage.  Even if you slip it in slowly, it's still raaapppeee. 

Edited by Chless
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Posted

Please disable gifting

4 people like this

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Posted

This whole discussion about trading made me remember the trading system for Maplestory, where you ask the other player to trade, they accept the request, a window pops up, both players put the item(s) they want to trade and the trade won't happen unless BOTH players accept the trade to happen (a button obvs). That's the only trading system as far as I can remember from another game that you can't really scam the other person.

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Posted

That wasn't that transparent... So basically 1: be careful with what you do, 2: if you can prove you got scammed you can get the other person banned, 3: you don't get anything back if you can prove it. 

How is it not transparent if you were able to understand the statement put forth and organize it into 3 simple, clear, and concise points.

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Posted

Greetings Adventures,

 

At Kakao Games we look to promote a safe and friendly gaming environment and create a place where everyone can enjoy Black Desert Online to the fullest. Part of our policies to ensure this means we do not tolerate players scamming each other. In the past, we have dealt swiftly with several exploits and punished players harshly for in game scams. Such as deceiving players into sending out Gift Letter of Repayments.

 

Recently, we’ve become aware of players making deals using the gifting system to offer incentives for placing items on the market place. We would like to offer some transparency on our policies for this.

Example:

Player 1 has told Player 2 that he will gift him 1 Horse Armor Set and 2 Pets if Player 2 lists a Dandelion Longsword on the Market Place.  Player 2 requires the pearl items be sent to him before he lists the item, Player 1 agrees and sends the items.

The gifting system is intended as a way to give items to your friends or loved ones. It is not supposed to be a means to facilitate in game trading. However, since at every stage of the transaction, our normal mechanics are being used, if done honestly, we do not consider this to be a violation of the terms of use.

We want to remind you, there are multiple problems with making this kind of deal. Firstly, even if both parties do everything in their power to make it work, there is no way to be certain the intended person will receive the item from the market place. Secondly, not everyone is honest and people will try to scam you! We strongly urge you not to arrange such a deal unless you are willing to take the risk of losing all of the items involved.

Additionally, anybody caught scamming other players, will have their accounts suspended and all gains removed. This could include item deletion or even downgrading your gear.

Items and/or pearls will not be restored to the gifting player.

We hope this clears up the questions you may have had about these transactions and once again urge you to avoid risking such deals.

IF This is your standing on this issue then why not just open player trading again and let the game function propperly so friends can help friends gear up and bring some frikking team play into this game? Also "swift actions against stuff like scamming," where is the SWIFT ACTIONS ON THE ACTUAL FISH BOTT that you allow to be used on your game, people pay 7$ for a fish bot that does the minigame automaticly and lets them haul in over 20 relic shards per night, its been reported GOD DAMN many times and no action is taken ever....

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Posted

This whole discussion about trading made me remember the trading system for Maplestory, where you ask the other player to trade, they accept the request, a window pops up, both players put the item(s) they want to trade and the trade won't happen unless BOTH players accept the trade to happen (a button obvs). That's the only trading system as far as I can remember from another game that you can't really scam the other person.

Agree. Similar to the Steam trade system.

In addition, I would put a mandatory email confirmation for both traders. 

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Posted

Stop scamming by enable player 2 player trading!

And kill the game in 1 second

...

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