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Posted

Perhaps the person just wanted to chat about it? Maybe he was interested in other people experience? Maybe they just wanted to complain or find someone who does think alike? Maybe they wanted to know if it gets better at times? Just cause you can't think of alternative reasons doesn't mean there are none. You're making an assumption and then get all fundamentalist about it.

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Posted

Perhaps the person just wanted to chat about it? Maybe he was interested in other people experience? Maybe they just wanted to complain or find someone who does think alike? Maybe they wanted to know if it gets better at times? Just cause you can't think of alternative reasons doesn't mean there are none. You're making an assumption and then get all fundamentalist about it.

Probably because I've read over the OP's comments and they seem to be wanting something, not to just "tell people". 

Again, your failure to think critically and many others like you is why we have the thought police running rampant, but you bask in that ignorance and think what you want to think.

There's nothing "Fundamentalist" about questioning someones intentions for a thread, that's just being critical, Devils Advocate as per say.

Inb4 you lob further insults about my Intelligence, call me a alt-righter, etc (Yup I saw those veiled insults, you're not as clever as you think)

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Posted

Sorry to say I have started to play with the chat completely turned off. This is the most toxic community chat in any game I have ever played.  The consent stream of filth, putting others down, gloating,and so on is a huge distraction from game play.  When I started to see the new "gifting pearls" for TET gear or T7/8 horses and make 500mil a week messages I realized the chat box was not for me.  I can much more easily and without  harassment find information I need online. Goodbye chat, the lunatics have taken over the asylum! crimson_sorceress_by_laclillac-d8gc8rj.j

 

 

 

First of all, what's with the big unrelated pic of the wizard? It's distracting from your point

Second, the whole "toxicity" thing just requires a certain sense of humor to appreciate. Don't go scolding your peers cuz u have a different sense of humor. 

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Posted (edited)

Stop the typing for five seconds, re-read what the OP posted, re-read the title and ask yourself the question "If the tools exist, what do they want?"

If I had to make a guess as to why this is a discussion, it would come down to a level of nostalgia.  I do remember one or two games where I lucked out and landed on a server with some insightful people.  Where chat wasn't often overrun by "git gud nub" folks.  But then when I look back on it, it was mostly because my chat window was also taken up by guild chat.

Or maybe there really is an epidemic of sorts among Millennials and Generation Z.  Maybe there really is something that is happening in families that has caused a decrease in civility and a propensity for nasty comments online.  I wouldn't look at the content of those comments as the factor, but the behavior itself. 

Or maybe it's simply that we have MANY more people playing MMOs these days.  Before, MMOs were niche games that had niche communities.  There weren't a whole lot of people to play with, so your relationships with others and reputation mattered.  If people on the server knew you were an ***hat, then you probably wouldn't get groups to do content.  Now, most people of the above generations play MMOs or something of the sort, so communities are much larger and therefore your relationships and reputation don't matter as much.  If you get a bad rep, you can always move on to the next game.  After all, they aren't all that expensive.  Or you can disappear for a week and you'll be forgotten.

If you think about it, this may well be why the merge has caused an increase in juvenile behavior.  You're playing with a much larger community than before.

This is likely why the recommendation of "join a guild" has become so common.  You join a guild, your community shrinks down considerably.  Your relationships and reputation now matter, and I wonder if juvenile behavior in chat (at least guild chat) also diminishes considerably.

Just something to think about.  The solution might simply be something to the tune of shrinking the community rather than policing chat more heavily.  People are pretty good at policing themselves and each other when the community is small enough.

Edited by Kyrielle_Atrinati
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Posted

If I had to make a guess as to why this is a discussion, it would come down to a level of nostalgia.  I do remember one or two games where I lucked out and landed on a server with some insightful people.  Where chat wasn't often overrun by "git gud nub" folks.  But then when I look back on it, it was mostly because my chat window was also taken up by guild chat.

Or maybe there really is an epidemic of sorts among Millennials and Generation Z.  Maybe there really is something that is happening in families that has caused a decrease in civility and a propensity for nasty comments online.  I wouldn't look at the content of those comments as the factor, but the behavior itself. 

Or maybe it's simply that we have MANY more people playing MMOs these days.  Before, MMOs were niche games that had niche communities.  There weren't a whole lot of people to play with, so your relationships with others and reputation mattered.  If people on the server knew you were an ***hat, then you probably wouldn't get groups to do content.  Now, most people of the above generations play MMOs or something of the sort, so communities are much larger and therefore your relationships and reputation don't matter as much.  If you get a bad rep, you can always move on to the next game.  After all, they aren't all that expensive.  Or you can disappear for a week and you'll be forgotten.

If you think about it, this may well be why the merge has caused an increase in juvenile behavior.  You're playing with a much larger community than before.

This is likely why the recommendation of "join a guild" has become so common.  You join a guild, your community shrinks down considerably.  Your relationships and reputation now matter, and I wonder if juvenile behavior in chat (at least guild chat) also diminishes considerably.

Just something to think about.  The solution might simply be something to the tune of shrinking the community.

It's definitely an Epidemic.

As a player from more "Admirable" times, the days of DaoC, AO, EQ, etc, I can say we still had our trolls but we elected to use the tools at our disposal to ignore them. Even in the days of WoW vanilla, players elected to just ignore people like that and they got bored and moved on.

Unfortunately with the "Nanny State" bubble wrapped teens of today, they were never taught the value of "Sticks and Stones" and to not empower people that use words to hurt, take away that attention and power by ignoring them, they are simply shouting to the wind. Instead they rise to it, engage with those that use words as weapons and make the situation worse that it needs to be.

Then as it grows into the ugliness, due to being unable to deal with it, being used to their parents/the system protecting them, they start making demands for "more protections", which simply again, empowers the trolls and goads them on to push the boundaries of outrage to see how far they can go before the system stops them.

The answer of course, is the one you gave.

Form smaller "communities" within the community, build bridges with like-minded people, shut out the trolls, exclude them. When they find nobody is listening and nobody is rising to them anymore, they simply go away.

It worked for us in the past, there's no reason it shouldn't work now.

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Posted (edited)

First of all, what's with the big unrelated pic of the wizard? It's distracting from your point
 

That's exactly what I was wondering also.

What's the point of inserting a picture that litterally takes more than 3/4 of the post lenght, which doesn't provide anything substancial and is totally irrelevant with the thread, said thread which is highly subjective and more or less a rant to begin with ?

There's not even an opening towards the audience if we look at the redaction, no question like "and what about you guys, what do you think about the chat ?"

Attention seeking ?
 

Edited by Capitaine Courage
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Posted

Back when online gaming started, it just wasn't this bad. Seems over the years, the mouthy, nasty mouth, immature players see online games as a way to try to upset others, and get away with it, and not get slapped in the face like they deserve.

I deal with it, like player killers. Their existence makes the world your playing in, more realistic. In real life you have mean people, so in the virtual world your in, they are unavoidable as well.

Block mini game. I pray to god there is no block limit, or I'm in serious trouble. Play the block mini game as often as possible. I use it on people that spam, racists, or people that talk about socially unacceptable things. In two weeks, its amazing how nice chat is:)

Just remember. Never take what they say personally. Odds are they would never have the guts to say it to your face in real life. Most of the real mean ones, are only acting that way, because they lack basic social skills, or have a really bad home life, and this is how they act out.

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Posted

I can name a few:

The original Everquest . . . . . played 4.5 years
SWG . . . . . . played over 2 years
Wildstar . . . . . . . played 2 years
Everquest 2 . . . . . .played over 8 years
to name a few.

The OP is correct.  I have never seen a more toxic and rude community as this.  Now go ahead a flame to prove my point!

I love how you tried that tactic, a backup statement to 360°noscope me "I gave you these irrefutable proofs, now if you disagree with me in a way that i won't surely appreciate, you'll just make my point more valid". Is quoting like that considered toxic? i don't know.

Anyway no, it doesn't work like that, just because you mention something it doesn't mean that you're right beyond any logic, it needs proofs as backup other than your own experience and you cannot gather them because is a subjective matter, also you could have been more naive at that times and don't see what was going on on these chats. If you didn't find them toxic i'm glad for you, maybe your standard of toxicity is just a bit lower than mine and mine is a bit higher, although it doesn't mean that everyone had the same experiences. It doesn't mean that whoever is fine with what is going on, is as toxic as the toxic people in this game. It doesn't mean neither that things cannot be changed or that this place is garbage, with so many tools to filter whatever you wish, you're still stating on a forum that the community is bad while you tried to trigger me with a poor attempt of bait.

Is easier to complain about others, i can say as well "This community is toxic as fu" and lead the hate train, but i am part of community and i found lots of nice people and personally i prefer to stick with these people and ignore others rather than generalize and place myself above the mass as i can be a real jerk if provoked - usually i'm not - but at least i admit that i'm a human and i have a bad side too. What about you guys that are criticizing it? there are many shades in everything and toxicity isn't excluded from that spectrum, so are you really that perfect, flawless? are you in sovereign really sure that you never did something considered toxic from the others side and that you actually think it's fine?

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Posted

So people who disagree with the Nancy should just leave.  Even those who gave completely civil responses.  You'd end up with a pretty empty game filled with people sniping each other with passive aggressive comments, because they refuse to discuss an issue people disagree on openly and frankly.  To do so would be considered "toxic" and "hateful" I'm sure.

I didn't say that at all. Kindly don't twist my words.

It's definitely an Epidemic.

As a player from more "Admirable" times, the days of DaoC, AO, EQ, etc, I can say we still had our trolls but we elected to use the tools at our disposal to ignore them. Even in the days of WoW vanilla, players elected to just ignore people like that and they got bored and moved on.

Unfortunately with the "Nanny State" bubble wrapped teens of today, they were never taught the value of "Sticks and Stones" and to not empower people that use words to hurt, take away that attention and power by ignoring them, they are simply shouting to the wind. Instead they rise to it, engage with those that use words as weapons and make the situation worse that it needs to be.

Then as it grows into the ugliness, due to being unable to deal with it, being used to their parents/the system protecting them, they start making demands for "more protections", which simply again, empowers the trolls and goads them on to push the boundaries of outrage to see how far they can go before the system stops them.

The answer of course, is the one you gave.

Form smaller "communities" within the community, build bridges with like-minded people, shut out the trolls, exclude them. When they find nobody is listening and nobody is rising to them anymore, they simply go away.

It worked for us in the past, there's no reason it shouldn't work now.

It's also that there is only so much Game Masters can do to keep the trolls reigned in, because while their games do require agreement to a Terms of Service, it's a bit of a grey area when the person agreeing to the ToS is a minor, as there are otherwise not legally responsible for themselves in regards to waivers/agreements.

I'd personally be entirely for a service popping up that offers to verify the identities of those who sign up, and that games are able to opt in to requiring their users be registered with that service - completely on the game publisher's dime, of course. That way, much like how KR requires it's gamers to have their accounts connected to their KSSN, which keeps them from making another account if they cause their account to get closed, which is a protection we currently don't have in NA.

As for what Kyrielle said, I agree that when it comes to Millennials and Generation Z, aka "Generation Me" and the "iGeneration", that undesired behavior is an epidemic, but moreso from the latter.

(Sadly) there is actual research to back this up. While Millennials are typically entitled, narcissistic, and sheltered, Generation Y is characterized as being "unsettled" and "insecure". From Wikipedia, -----> According to the marketing firm Frank N. Magid they are "the least likely to believe that there is such a thing as the American Dream" because "Generation X, the most influential parents of Plurals (Generation Z), demonstrates the least credence in the concept of the American Dream among adult generations."[37]

Meanwhile, Generation X is characterized as being "go-getters" and "entrepreneurial", and the Baby Boomers before them are considerably more liberal than predecessors, anti-establishment, as well as peace-minded.

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Posted

I didn't say that at all. Kindly don't twist my words.

It's also that there is only so much Game Masters can do to keep the trolls reigned in, because while their games do require agreement to a Terms of Service, it's a bit of a grey area when the person agreeing to the ToS is a minor, as there are otherwise not legally responsible for themselves in regards to waivers/agreements.

I'd personally be entirely for a service popping up that offers to verify the identities of those who sign up, and that games are able to opt in to requiring their users be registered with that service - completely on the game publisher's dime, of course. That way, much like how KR requires it's gamers to have their accounts connected to their KSSN, which keeps them from making another account if they cause their account to get closed, which is a protection we currently don't have in NA.

As for what Kyrielle said, I agree that when it comes to Millennials and Generation Z, aka "Generation Me" and the "iGeneration", that undesired behavior is an epidemic, but moreso from the latter.

(Sadly) there is actual research to back this up. While Millennials are typically entitled, narcissistic, and sheltered, Generation Y is characterized as being "unsettled" and "insecure". From Wikipedia, -----> According to the marketing firm Frank N. Magid they are "the least likely to believe that there is such a thing as the American Dream" because "Generation X, the most influential parents of Plurals (Generation Z), demonstrates the least credence in the concept of the American Dream among adult generations."[37]

Meanwhile, Generation X is characterized as being "go-getters" and "entrepreneurial", and the Baby Boomers before them are considerably more liberal than predecessors, anti-establishment, as well as peace-minded.

I actually don't think a verification system would be a bad idea at all, as long as they are kept on a secure, heavily encrypted database that only the GM's can access with special permissions. Battlenet actually has that system in place and it works quite well, allowing them to completely ban some of the worst offenders completely from the system if they so deem fit.

However since it's sensitive data, information of whom we are that data thieves would want to get their hands on, it needs to be kept on an OFFLINE database as opposed to Online, ie, after they have the info, they delete the online trail after moving it to the offline database and store it for up to 10 years. It also needs to be enforced under legislation that the information cannot be under any circumstances be sold on.

It'd require a significant amount of trust between user and provider, but it would go a long way toward solving the Anon trolling issues many online platforms face nowadays without impacting freedoms that we hold dearly.

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