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Attendance on Sieges and Nodewars


94 posts in this topic

Posted

As I dont know about the situation on NA or the guilds that came from other Servers than Alustin... 
What I felt on Alustin was that 99% of the guilds had the same issues. 
First of all - most players I saw and played with came from games where it was either just zergpvp or targetlock crap. BDO has the least mechanical and tactical skilled playerbase i've ever experienced ( honest opinion - no flame, there are quite a few exceptions but those ~5 skilled ppl per guild... wtf ^^ ) 
Guild leaders or rather the players in charge of organizing and "raid"-lead, deciding on GvG shotcalling, movement, tactics were a plain catastrophe. No idea of anything, their tactics seemed always to be suicide to win, as in die yourself through enemy lines and hope to dmg a little everytime. Can't even laugh about it.. simply sad. 
As the game progressed after launch a lot of guilds broke apart due to the leaders pressuring their members to play the game a certain way, which burned out their motivation quite fast and made many players leave and create small casual-mind-my-own-business-guilds. 

About those recruitment shouts... feels like trash only to me. They can talk all they want, they might be able to get a second attention, but will ppl really consider joining them for their calls? If you ask me - no chance

The big problem with the guildsystem is that you do not gain much by joining hands with ppl and mostly feel bound by obligations - can't play freely. 
The pvp system and gvg are greatly flawed in themselves. The parameters, fighting grounds, restrictions and dmg-calculations are completely out of place. Combat wise the system we have is pretty much inferior to way older games. 

I hope that this gave you some insight to the matter you asked about

you didn't provide any insight, you literally just said "the system is broken" that's not insight buddy....

Just because you've only been in trash guild that don't have tactics doesn't mean that tactics don't exist. A prime example of that is ember, they attended their first siege since they merged and got dicked. 

just because you have no clue of the siege and node war mechanics that are at your disposal does not mean they aren't there and it does not mean that they don't play a huge role in who wins and who loses. 

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Posted (edited)

 

Julian was surprised mikassa and others chose to pick Sov over them lol enemy has some quality salty kids like eiene,xeo and few other shit talkers, this thread about something regarding the community and you bring your shit here, well take this bonus for you then xD  

_42135cce75937377a885e3cc10695eed-jpg.jpg

Edited by SillySin
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Posted (edited)

Julian was surprised mikassa and others chose to pick Sov over them lol enemy has some quality salty kids like eiene,xeo and few other shit talkers, this thread about something regarding the community and you bring your shit here, well take this bonus for you then xD  

_42135cce75937377a885e3cc10695eed-jpg.jpg

posting a pic of a 40v10 at nouver because mytoko randomly shouted on guild chat WAR EMBER when he was officer (he's not officer now) when they were having a guild war vs some other guild on that very channel, gj sillychin, you immediately went for a personal attack after i proved you're bad at the game with a logical and coherent argument, but didn't expect you to be able to come up with something coherent in the first place

Edited by BdoTemp1

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Posted (edited)

Indeed good topic, those +lv60s in unknown guilds are in those guilds cuz they are comfortable there? i been in 2x semi-hc so far and it my experience was not worth the 50% slow down in my progress, these guilds can't afford to make up for this 50% progress unless you are sitting on a castle for too long like some NA guilds,

As lv60 with 220 ap & 3b silver liquidity, i don't see the point at all to even join "unknown guild", speaking for myself, unless you find a guild that is worth your time & 50% slow down in progress then you are better off, lots of ppl whisper me how i make my silver and my answer was always been "being guildless" if i want to pvp then i have arena/rbf/or low karma in desert, group pvp is coming soon in a 5v5/3v3 form.

I think we will be witnessing small scale guilds more than +90 attendance, all those big hc guilds ended in disbanding for different reasons.

As a Lv 61 ranger with 512 AP/DP and 1.1b liquidity i'm happy my entire gameplay experience was devoted to constant conflict, fun and drama, i actually had a reason to use my gear all while i could explore the world for fun, try out all lifeskills aswell and in general whatever is the full package of this game.

Is it really healthy to suggest people to intentionally submit themselves to a duller experience only to get an easier time progressing? You might not like most of the content ( let's be honest, you talk about RBF and i saw you there once, and please don't even try to have people believe you play bandit in the desert ), but the style you're pushing is factually contributing very little to social interaction which is still the heart of an MMO.

It's not really down to opinion that the entire PvP scene would be completely dead if everyone were to follow your advice, just like your "progress" didn't help you in the slightest for those few weeks you actually got to it. You promote idleness and yet you come ask for attention where you don't even belong just to leech off other's people deeds like a parasite, i could just laugh it off when i know you're just trolling but when i read such posts in which you're genuinely just being yourself i can't help feeling disgusted.

Edited by Sheranna
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Posted (edited)

 

you proved that i am bad at the game? you don't even know how to count, the screenshot shows equal number and you say it was 40 vs 10 lol this is worse than your paint skills, personal attack you say hehe you will kill Saltnemy in no time, will remind you of this very soon, git gud

 

_42135cce75937377a885e3cc10695eed-jpg.jpg

Edited by SillySin

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Posted

you proved that i am bad at the game? you don't even know how to count, the screenshot shows equal number and you say it was 40 vs 10 lol this is worse than your pain skills, personal attack you say hehe you will kill Saltnemy in no time, will remind you of this very soon, git gud.

 

_42135cce75937377a885e3cc10695eed-jpg.jpg

feel free to ask anyone from ember about the numbers at that nouver fight, but don't worry

 

2016-12-11_603218986.PNG

 

and let's also not forget how many times you channel hopped as soon as you saw me in your channel cause you feared id obliterate you :)

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Posted (edited)

you proved that i am bad at the game? you don't even know how to count, the screenshot shows equal number and you say it was 40 vs 10 lol this is worse than your paint skills, personal attack you say hehe you will kill Saltnemy in no time, will remind you of this very soon, git gud

that was after an organized gvg between ember and checkmate.. mytoko randomly declared on them right after that at nouver.. you have no idea what you are talking about and by posting this bs you are just proving that lmfao

you can ask ember if aswell if you want, I doubt they are going to say anything else :) 

Indeed good topic, those +lv60s in unknown guilds are in those guilds cuz they are comfortable there? i been in 2x semi-hc so far and it my experience was not worth the 50% slow down in my progress, these guilds can't afford to make up for this 50% progress unless you are sitting on a castle for too long like some NA guilds,

As lv60 with 220 ap & 3b silver liquidity, i don't see the point at all to even join "unknown guild", speaking for myself, unless you find a guild that is worth your time & 50% slow down in progress then you are better off, lots of ppl whisper me how i make my silver and my answer was always been "being guildless" if i want to pvp then i have arena/rbf/or low karma in desert, group pvp is coming soon in a 5v5/3v3 form.

A "hc" guild slows down your progress? I dont really know how a guild could slow down your "progress".. gear wise you may have 4 hours less a week to grind or whatever you wanna do to get money, but mechanic,skill and tactic wise you can only learn during those fights and you won't be able to anywhere else
siege and nodewar is the only thing in this game that is somehow compareable to "competitive" pvp.. You can't compare that to RBF or how you call it "low karma in desert" (maybe nodewars and sieges in your ex-guilds were so bad organized it looks like RBF? Idk)

And if people dont want to pvp, there would be no reason to join a guild that does nw/siege actively. Not everyone plays BDO for the pvp (and thats fine), you cant judge them for that, but if you want remotely "competetive" pvp in this game and you have to do nodewars or sieges

Also: money is not the main factor for actively participating siege or nodewars.. it's the pvp and the good feeling of achieving something.. (atleast for us).
Payout money should be used for villas and elixirs (buffs in general) anyway and not your own "gear progress", how you say it.

Everyone who is in a guild that participates should be thankful for every second of PVP that you get during a siege/nw, because there is nothing else in this game compareable to that!

Edited by Xe0
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Posted

you proved that i am bad at the game? you don't even know how to count, the screenshot shows equal number and you say it was 40 vs 10 lol this is worse than your paint skills, personal attack you say hehe you will kill Saltnemy in no time, will remind you of this very soon, git gud

 

_42135cce75937377a885e3cc10695eed-jpg.jpg

I noticed something , everytime you try to somehow prove enemy is this and that you always use cherry picked scenarios to try and prove a point without introducing the entire context aswell haha. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you also always try to throw bad blood between enemy and other guilds even when enemy just started out? Maybe someday you would want to step up and do stuff on your own accord and use those stuff as material for points you want to prove instead of parasiting of other guilds actions . But maybe you are looking to be known as a parasite, in that case go on 😂

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Posted

@Xe0 Xeon pls just Trash those Kids so its getting silent here again thx

Guys pls stop with this Personal-War things in a Thread we try to motivate People to get into Nodewars/Sieges. And as i said yesterday feel free to PM me with Questions here or InGame doesnt matter which way.

 Those ideas are fine but we wont get Kakao/PA to do this just for "NA/EU", And all those "Gear difference is shit Level difference is shit" QQ. All of the PvPers grinded their asses of and farmed to get where they are. I guess we sadly just have to wait a few Months more until there is more competition. Im fine with small scale but we got way to much of em actually. Theres like 5~6 small scale Guilds. If 2 of em would merge there would be a new threat on Nodewars.

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Posted

They go and attack SillySin everywhere, kinda sad.  He gave his opinion, give yours and move on.

Just ignoring him would be more effective. 

 

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Posted (edited)

you didn't provide any insight, you literally just said "the system is broken" that's not insight buddy....

Just because you've only been in trash guild that don't have tactics doesn't mean that tactics don't exist. A prime example of that is ember, they attended their first siege since they merged and got dicked. 

just because you have no clue of the siege and node war mechanics that are at your disposal does not mean they aren't there and it does not mean that they don't play a huge role in who wins and who loses. 

LOL you simply didn't read my text. I do have knowledge about tactics, mechanics and maneuvers - don't get this wrong, there are others as well who do. 
But from Alustin guilds which attended Nodewars and Castle Sieges - most of 'em don't know shit. The people in charge didn't listen and were incompetent AF. So read again what I wrote before & try to comprehend the cohesive contexts. As I said - there are exceptions, but very few. 

E: The OP asked for the reasons of ppl being w/o guild - small scale guilds & not attending NW/CS - my earlier text does give insight. Period. 

 

Edited by BloodyPleasure

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Posted (edited)

1. ok il take that statement but nowadays you get Gear so much more easy via AH. We had to farm months of months to get gear actually can be bought of the AH

2. i got the worst PC EU and still can shotcall and fight so thats not really an excuse

3. Valks are beasts in Masspvp wtf you talkin bout? Ninjas and Kunos could act as invisible scouts or cannoneers just to give you an idea and the Tamer kit is OP IMHO

My pc is such that in pvp it can take up to 20 sec before people start loading in, so i usually navigate via map because i cant see people. And when i can see them, by the time i can see the spell i am allready cc'ed and waiting for that sweet relief of death.

Edited by Shyvana
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Posted

I think it has been said before by someone else here but I dont remember. The biggest reason why people dont go for sieges or T3´s is that they are just afraid of loosing. In this game many people are trying to be efficient with their time and get frustrated fast if they see their time wasted. Easy pushover at T2 for 600 Mil a week x amount of wars,  or chance of getting T3 or nothing? For many the answer is clear. I think its just a question of mentality and some just dont have the one to go boldly into a Siege or T3 with a very high risk of loosing.

A possible fix could be that for participating in a Siege you get some money or kind of reward, maybe Guild Skill XP so participating without loosing would be worthwhile (apart from the joy of PvP ofc). Every other aspect is irrelevant as I can read here like zerg or performance, if there would be something in for those who dont win, more would come.

The best example you can see of this actually happening sometimes are Mercenary guilds who dont expect to win, but expect  something to get for helping someone to win, like some final war pays or help at T3.

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Posted (edited)

I think it has been said before by someone else here but I dont remember. The biggest reason why people dont go for sieges or T3´s is that they are just afraid of loosing. In this game many people are trying to be efficient with their time and get frustrated fast if they see their time wasted. Easy pushover at T2 for 600 Mil a week x amount of wars,  or chance of getting T3 or nothing? For many the answer is clear. I think its just a question of mentality and some just dont have the one to go boldly into a Siege or T3 with a very high risk of loosing.

A possible fix could be that for participating in a Siege you get some money or kind of reward, maybe Guild Skill XP so participating without loosing would be worthwhile (apart from the joy of PvP ofc). Every other aspect is irrelevant as I can read here like zerg or performance, if there would be something in for those who dont win, more would come.

The best example you can see of this actually happening sometimes are Mercenary guilds who dont expect to win, but expect  something to get for helping someone to win, like some final war pays or help at T3.

sorry to say this but: What kind of mentality is that? Being afraid of "loosing" in a virtual game is so stupid.. if you would say that about selling/buying stocks or something in real life.. Ok. But we are talking about a game that noone will even talk about in 5 years, who cares if you win or not

I know people get demotivated if they keep losing one after another, it's not reeally supporting the general moral in the guild, but going for easy t1 nodes, winning everything all the time without having any challenge, encouregement or incentive to get better .. how is that remotely fun? I dont get it. :(. I guess im just weird....

Edited by Xe0

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Posted (edited)

For some it is for some it isnt. Dont get me wrong, I´m not saying my Guild is like this, but why else do you think so few Guilds come to sieges and you sometimes can only scratch your head when you see some Guilds going for T1 and T2 who clearly are strong enough for higher aims.

Because they have shit PC´s? Because they dont like mass PvP? No, because they just dont get anything out of it. Of course for some its not fun to have easy pushovers for money, thats the people who go to sieges and higher aims in general and are usually get better known guilds.

Edited by SunRunner

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Posted

It's simply a different mentality nowadays. Just look at all the people that make a massive issue out of being PKed in a game where you don't even lose anything on death...

Everyone is just in it for themselves, to progress themself and how dare anyone interfere with their game! They probably don't even know what it is they're progressing for, but as long as it gives them self satisfaction why do something else? Who cares about challenging yourself, perhaps losing, when you can just do a 15 min stomp, get a node, some guildfunds and go back to grinding to get better gear for the sake off... well nothing really.

It's somehow this ironic loop. People claim they can't PvP cuz they need gear, so they get gear, get stomped in PvP because they got no clue how to PvP as they never did it and proceed to go back to needing more gear so in the end they're just stuck grinding forever, because in their own mind they always need more gear and nobody has time to do something that can't provide them more gear. That this is a game and supposed to be fun seems to be long forgotten by way too many people.

Well people aside, the number of guilds also is an issue. I mean the top isn't even full yet and I'm willing to bet a witch/wiz with half decent lvl/gear can get into every single guild (at least on EU, dunno about NA), simply because every guild still has spots free for a good nodewar class. Yet in the meantime you see 5 new guilds pop up every week that want to get into nodewars and (according to them) even sieges, looking for 450+ (pretty much full tri) people, while a full tri player can easily apply to t3/territory holding guilds and there's plenty of guilds in that region that would at least take a look at the guy. So why bother then joining some 15-20 man guild, that has no guild skills that most likely will never hold anything better than a free T1? This isn't some BDO issue though, it's something I've been seeing for a long time. Too many people that want to be a guildleader, because you know being the boss is cool or something and as a result you end up with 50+ guilds that won't ever really amount to anything.

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Posted

Saturday timing is just awful to get frequent attenadce. A lot of the player base are working or studying and just do other stuff on Saturday 8p.m. This means that it is very hard to find 100 ppl that will attend 70%-80% of the saturdays so that you pull the numbers to be relevant against the top guilds. 

I am an avarage 59 player with 210/263 stats with active playtime arround 8h per week and even if I want to take part in the conquests its almost close to impossible due to the fact that I can probably attend 1 Saturday per month in the current timeframe. This means I cannot be part of a larger competative guild that takes part in conquests. I can play in smaller more casual guilds that come up with maybe 30 members every second saturday due to the attendance of its playerbase. And of course those guilds dont take part on Saturday because they can do shit vs guilds with 70 players which are also usually much more geared. 

So when we start counting the guilds that can pull out 70+ players for conquests we see that they are actually quite few and they end up being bored and uncontested. 

I can pretty much think of 2 solutions ( not mutually exclusive ) but I suppose there are much more :

1. Find a timeslot that is better and much easier for most people to attend.I dont know if this is possible and if PA didn't already made a research when is the most likely time that someone will attend an online gaming activity and they chose Saturday 8 p.m. based on that, but from my perspective Sunday 1.a.m Middle of the night is much better timing :). With the current timing I have to make the choice between personal life and gaming and in the midnight timeslot I have to make choice between sleeping and gaming. Obviously the second seems much likely for people that like the game to be happy with.

2. Make some mechanic that promotes agreements between guilds so that you can be trully hired by defenders/attackers and get a part of the loot if you are on the winning side. That way smaller guilds can take part of conquests and try to serve bigger guilds interestes and trully act as mercs. We have a workarround of that with the final war but its really sketchy and I think it can really be improved and made part of the game. That way even 20 30 man guilds can serve as diversion teams or scouts and end up with something in the end if the win.

 

 

 

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Posted

It's nearly 2 Months now after the merge and yet its lesser competitive then before. Every Day so much guild recruit spam: small scale, semi-hardcore, semi-progress, and even progress and yet so much nodes are free or claimed with no competition. This is so much money and actual PvP-Experience that is lost its sad. We even have a Weekly Podcast after Sieges hosted by our beloved @Swiper Swipers Twitch .

But why is the attendance so low? I see tons of players running around even lvl 60+ People Guildless / in unknown Guilds. And how can we encourage more People to do actual PvP?

 

Let's get Wasted!

come to the US servers even t1s have 5-8 way fights 

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Posted

come to the US servers even t1s have 5-8 way fights 

What, You guys don't have enough desync without people playing on 200 ping? xD
On a more serious note - if you'd read through the thread, you'd notice that there are plenty of "fights" (well, stomps really) on t1s. but T3s and Saturday conquests are quite underpopulated for no reason at all.

 

In general -  People pull out of their ass that everyone on Saturday is full tet and in 70man guild, when that just isn't true. There are some guilds that bring 50, some even bring less, and if people would actually SOCIALIZE in an MMO they'd find a way to come as, say, two 40man guilds. Y'know, if you actually talked to other guilds..

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Posted

What, You guys don't have enough desync without people playing on 200 ping? xD
On a more serious note - if you'd read through the thread, you'd notice that there are plenty of "fights" (well, stomps really) on t1s. but T3s and Saturday conquests are quite underpopulated for no reason at all.

 

In general -  People pull out of their ass that everyone on Saturday is full tet and in 70man guild, when that just isn't true. There are some guilds that bring 50, some even bring less, and if people would actually SOCIALIZE in an MMO they'd find a way to come as, say, two 40man guilds. Y'know, if you actually talked to other guilds..

Eh its pretty much the same on US in that regards.  Although this week the masses were bribed into rising up against Manup.  Geared guilds with high attendance can still still stomp out several smaller guilds pretty fast if they arent organized.  Although the top end guilds here are fielding 80+ in the gear you are discussing it isnt "everyone" and the smaller alliances have been doing well

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Posted

If I would had to take a wild guess on why T1 nodes are so busy compaired to T3 and sieges I would put my money on these reasons:

Soloplay: While leveling, exploring and just playing in general there is very little reason to actually groupup and learn to play together with others, when you add in the unpredicability in PvP, vs how players are used to mobs behaving in PvE it is sort of a culturalshock for them "but but I am used to doing this routation and everything dies" In smallscale PvP you might see the most teamwork and synagy between players. how they coordinate cooldowns, buffs and crowdcontrole to set kills up, or peel for their backline. This is something you only learn when you get together with the people  you spend your ingame hours with, get on voicecom and learn together. Not many people take that step, and if they do they dont contunue walking.

Understanding the game: Looking at an ability and being able to theorycraft how it can help your group, team, guild. Understand what is strong in what situations, and how to counter it, might also be an obstacle if people dont have a driven PvP-mindset. Raidleading and shotcalling can carry to some degree for those players who dont have the ability or drive themselves, but that just means there would had to be more of these leaders to lead.

Progressing and silver: Winning a nodewar or a siege can be hella rewarding, but also kinda expensive for the losing side. Both in canonballs, consumables and morale. If you dont have a burning desire to pvp, and just join the nodewars with your guild to have fun, and end up being stomped time and time again, you might not sign up for the next one, then your guild has lower attendance etc.

T1, T2, T3, Sieges: You get together with likeminded players and do this guildactivity, but then you face enemies who have such big advantage(s) over your guild that you see no way to achive victory, you could then jump down a tier and give someone else the same treatment, or hope next week it will be better. I for one personally think this is really important that players stick to the brackers where their gear and skill "belong" while it is super hard to set up bracket of who belongs in what tier, I am sure you get the point.

As for everything in BDO, you are not getting guided by the game as to how to play.  Top performing guilds are not sharing their groupsetups, voicecoms and whatever system they are having succes with, for a good reason. With no set "meta" for how a guild should do Nodewars / GvG/ Sieges, less creative guilds might struggle to get a foothold when they step into the pvp scene.

Majority of the EU guilds tag themselves as "semicasual" (and not semi hardcore?) they know there is so much hard work to be done in order for them to close the gap on some of the advantages the full-on Hardcore guilds have, and telling themselves that its fine to lose because they are semi, is easier than actually going the extra mile.

Disclaimer: This is simply my own general thourghts about the subject, I didnt have any specific guilds in mind and I like the siegescene as it is atm. However more guilds would be lovely! In the end I personally think some of the these reasons in my opinion are flaws within the game at the expense of the PvP section.

 

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Posted

We should merge with NA to make sieges great again :thinking:

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Posted

We should merge with NA to make sieges great again :thinking:

From NA, lol NA sieges are playing out like one Act behind EU.  Just had a guild that held a castle for free totally implode and lose to a random guild in a T1 node fight (repeat of Harmony), and another lose a castle to a massive zerg (reminds me of the first EU siege video where that Pacman logo guild was the zerg winner).  

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Posted

that Pacman logo guild was the zerg winner

Zerg

 s4bSbiD.png

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Posted

 that Pacman logo guild

Zerg

 s4bSbiD.png

giphy.gif

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