• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Best MMO of 2016 (Vote)

77 posts in this topic

Posted

What if you combine "normal" playtime with unlimited artisans memories? That's what I mean. You literally can make a ton of profit every day just by enchanting, saving the ultimately cheap failstacks and selling the outcomes. It has been calculated, and based on average RNG (which is the only way to discuss these things), you will make a ton of profit using artisans memories.

Show me the numbers on average you will make. Factor in cost of failstacking on time it takes you to acquire all materials. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You guys dont understand that biggest value in artisan when using it with proper FS management is that you your luck becomes basically almost irrelevant... You failed tri 30 times in row? Good, you just got so many cheap tet failstacks... Later or sooner that FS will boost your whole wealth by billions when you will start to achieve that tet items... You usually get your tri after 1-4 tries and cant make even one stack of FS for TET? Good sell items you get for 290m (tri blue awak), 450m (tri boss/kzarka) or 550m (tri dande) and enjoy easy silver...  Luck start to matter again when you try to tet your armor/weapon or tri basilk/ogre/crescent, but at that moment you are at top wealthiest players on server already...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think new players have a right to know that there are huge P2W elements when they will get to the "end-game" PVP. LazyPeons new video is just so misleading, he probably doesn't know those things himself either.

I think new players have a right to know that BDO isn't p2w because there is nothing you can buy with real money that will guarantee you to win against players that haven't bought the items from the cash shop.  The cash shop items only offer convenience.  All you are here to do is troll.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think new players have a right to know that BDO isn't p2w because there is nothing you can buy with real money that will guarantee you to win against players that haven't bought the items from the cash shop.  The cash shop items only offer convenience.  All you are here to do is troll.

Tell me pls example of game you consider p2w then...

Edited by Dorsai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Tbh,

 

ESO does have a shitton more meaningful legit quest content that's AAA single player game worthy compared to BDO. BDO just has grind and better visuals, that's it.

Playing ESO for the first time this year made me rethink how MMO's should be made, it's the first time that i felt like there was s hitton to do besides getting to level cap, and the actual questing itself was fun and in fact I felt like i didnt want to even level up/i wanted to level up even slower cuz of the things you could do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Tell me pls example of game you consider p2w then...

Oh, so are you saying that the definition of p2w should be adjusted if most game developers have stopped putting out p2w games?  Yea, like that makes sense. 

Perhaps Wolf Team.  This is from a review:

Where Wolf Team really disappoints is its cash shop – largely because it has some pay-to-win elements. The most obvious example of P2W in Wolf Team is the “gear” available in the item store. For example, things like boots, kevlar, and gloves can only be purchased with Aeria Points (AP), the game's premium currency. The gear increases defense and alters stats, so it has an impact on the game.

I've not played this game and wouldn't because I consider it p2w.  In fact Ive never played a game that is p2w because I avoid them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Probably because ESO is an actual MMRPG. BDO is an MMOGRIND.

(distant laughing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

ppl who use the term "whale" dont even play this game and have no valid opinions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

@ronniejw

Well, silver = gear = everything in this game. Funny how hard fanboys try to defend the p2w aspects of this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

LOL ESO, all their content is behind a paywall. "Want new exciting content" "Ya!" "Gimme 30 bucks or pay 150 a year for it!" That game is dead. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Oh, so are you saying that the definition of p2w should be adjusted if most game developers have stopped putting out p2w games?  Yea, like that makes sense. 

Perhaps Wolf Team.  This is from a review:

Where Wolf Team really disappoints is its cash shop – largely because it has some pay-to-win elements. The most obvious example of P2W in Wolf Team is the “gear” available in the item store. For example, things like boots, kevlar, and gloves can only be purchased with Aeria Points (AP), the game's premium currency. The gear increases defense and alters stats, so it has an impact on the game.

I've not played this game and wouldn't because I consider it p2w.  In fact Ive never played a game that is p2w because I avoid them.

I never said such a thing and its not what i meant... Your tries to interpet other ppl posts into meanings that have nothing to do with what they are trying to say is disgusting... Can you pls stop doing it? 

What i meant is that i cant think of any game that could fit into your definition of p2w... I dont know any mmo were you are guaranteed 100% to win if you pay... Your example Wolf Team is FPS game... That means that even if you invest heavy into cash shop you still have to at least be able to aim and hit ppl sometimes... If your aim is like 90 years old grandpa even if you invest thousands of dollars you arent guaranteed to win... Same for BDO, even if you are full PEN its still not guaranteed 100% win if you dont even know what your skills are doing... Thats why even PEN items in cash shop would not make BDO p2w in your definition...

Edited by Dorsai
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This thread has derailed to the point that my jimmies are starting to get rustled...

 

I just ignore threads like these now aday

I think new players have a right to know that BDO isn't p2w because there is nothing you can buy with real money that will guarantee you to win against players that haven't bought the items from the cash shop.  The cash shop items only offer convenience.  All you are here to do is troll.

^

but the horse thing should be looked into. my friend blew 50 dollars for one skill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

@ronniejw

Well, silver = gear = everything in this game. Funny how hard fanboys try to defend the p2w aspects of this game.

So, what you are saying is that you can't obtain enough silver just by playing the game to ever buy or obtain the best gear.  I don't believe that.  I'm not defending any p2w aspect of the game because it's not p2w.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So, what you are saying is that you can't obtain enough silver just by playing the game to ever buy or obtain the best gear.  I don't believe that.  I'm not defending any p2w aspect of the game because it's not p2w.

You will always be less-geared than the player, who plays exactly as much as you do, but uses cash to make and/or save silver. On average. Easy as that.

Gear = pvp = only endgame content in this game. P2W doesn't really matter if you play pve only, but this is a horrible pve game anyways.

Edited by Miki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So, what you are saying is that you can't obtain enough silver just by playing the game to ever buy or obtain the best gear.  I don't believe that.  I'm not defending any p2w aspect of the game because it's not p2w.

Well artisans give you three times more attempts then we can assume that you need in average do three times more scrolls, grind three times more to achieve same result then paying player... if he grind 4 hours per day you need to grind 12 hours per day... Simple as that...

Edited by Dorsai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I never said such a thing and its not what i meant... Your tries to interpet other ppl posts into meanings that have nothing to do with what they are trying to say is disgusting... Can you pls stop doing it? 

What i meant is that i cant think of any game that could fit into your definition of p2w... I dont know any mmo were you are guaranteed 100% to win if you pay... Your example Wolf Team is FPS game... That means that even if you invest heavy into cash shop you still have to at least be able to aim and hit ppl sometimes... If your aim is like 90 years old grandpa even if you invest thousands of dollars you arent guaranteed to win... Same for BDO, even if you are full PEN its still not guaranteed 100% win if you dont even know what your skills are doing... Thats why even PEN items in cash shop would not make BDO p2w in your definition...

I'm sorry but I got the impression that you were implying that there are no MMOs that meet with my definition. And,when I point out one that does you won't accept it.  With all things being equal the person in Wolf Team that buys the gear for real money will always win against the player that doesn't no matter how much time each of them spend playing the game.  That is p2w in my view.

Having PEN items in cash shop wouldn't make BDO pay to win but I would argue that it goes to far in the advantage (completely removes rng) such an item would give and, as I have stated many times before, the game needs to be balanced between the amount of advantage you get from outside sources like money and time spent on the game.

In my view the logical thing is that if items like artisan memory's on the cash shop are limited, and I don't object to that, then there should also be controls on the amount of advantage people gain by spending more time on the game as well.

Considering that both time and money are external factors that give players advantage and some people oppose money giving a player an advantage then logic dictates that they must also oppose time giving a player an advantage.  Here is the logic, against money giving an in game advantage, in a logical format (syllogism):

Premise 1 - External factors should not be allowed to give a player an in game advantage

Premise 2 - Money is an external factor that gives a player an in game advantage

Premise 3 (conclusion) - Therefore money should not be allowed to give a player an in game advantage

In this syllogism if premise 1 and 2 are true then so is premise 3 and if all three premises are true then the logic is sound.  Of course that means that if it's OK for external factors to give a player an advantage then premise 3 is false and the logic isn't sound.

However, if the syllogism above is true and logically sound then the following logic in a logical format is also true and sound:

Premise 1 - External factors should not be allowed to give a player an in game advantage

Premise 2 - Time is an external factor that gives a player an in game advantage

Premise 3 (conclusion) - Therefore time should not be allowed to give a player an in game advantage

Some people like to argue that one external factor (time) should give a player the greatest advantage because they invested the greatest amount of time (an external factor) on the game.  But there is a problem with that claim.  Let’s take a look at that from a logical syllogism:

Premise 1 - People that invest the greatest amount of external factors should gain the greatest amount of advantage in game.

Premise 2 - Both money and time, which are external factors, allow players to gain advantage in game with the more of each spent on the game the greater the advantage they provide.

Premise 3 (conclusion) - Therefore people that invest the greatest amount of money and time should gain the greatest amount of advantage in game.

And again in this syllogism if premise 1 and 2 are true then so is premise 3 and if all three premises are true then the logic is sound.  Of course that means that if it's OK for external factors to give a player an advantage then premise 3 is false and the logic isn't sound.

I know there are those who can't quite grasp logic and will argue that "the company can't control peoples time so your logic is useless".  Of course they conveniently overlook the fact that the company can't control the amount of money people make either  But, they can control the advantage gained by both money and time within the game and pearl shop.

In case people can't put aside their biased views long enough to actually think of a way to control the advantage spending more time on the game gives I will give a simple example of how this can be done (this is only an example of how it can be done not of what should be done):

To control how much time a player spends grinding for Witches Earrings there can be a daily quest through the Black Spirit to kill mobs at Hex and it is only during this quest that there is a possibility to drop the Witches Earrings.

All of the best loot could be placed in quest like this with a limited number of quest available each day.

Another way is to send players under a certain number of hours per day some kind of scroll or potion or something that gives them some other advantage like increased drop rate or something like that.  I'm sure there are many different ways to balance the amount of advantage obtained from external sources to benefit the greatest number of players. 

However, eliminating the items sold in the cash shop that are convenience items that give some kind of advantage would completely unbalance the game in favor of people that gain advantage because they can spend more time (an external factor) playing the game.

My own opinion is that players should be allowed to gain advantage from both money and time but the amount of advantage either of these gives should be balanced as much as possible.  It is illogical to make the argument that people with more of one external source of advantage should be the only ones to have an advantage from an external source. 

Well artisans give you three times more attempts then we can assume that you need in average do three times more scrolls, grind three times more to achieve same result then paying player... if he grind 4 hours per day you need to grind 12 hours per day... Simple as that...

Of course artisans will make obtaining better gear more convenient but you don't have to have them to obtain the same gear.  Also, see my post about spending external factors on the game (time and money).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

really would like to play free trial ended anyone with free key feeling generous plz hit me up casey2682@gmail.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm sorry but I got the impression that you were implying that there...  -snip-

You are however not addressing the larger gap in the population that this creates.

 

We have the base of working ppl paying money to keep up and the playing ppl who spend a lot of time daily to keep up without having to pay.

Then we have the 2 extreme sides of ppl with no money or time and on the other end ppl that have lots of time and money.

 

All the give-away events running counters this to some degree but the cash shop still causes a much bigger disparancy between players than would be if it didnt exist at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You are however not addressing the larger gap in the population that this creates.

 

We have the base of working ppl paying money to keep up and the playing ppl who spend a lot of time daily to keep up without having to pay.

Then we have the 2 extreme sides of ppl with no money or time and on the other end ppl that have lots of time and money.

 

All the give-away events running counters this to some degree but the cash shop still causes a much bigger disparancy between players than would be if it didnt exist at all.

Perhaps you should go back and read my full posting because I did address the need to achieve a balance between external factors such as time and money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Perhaps you should go back and read my full posting because I did address the need to achieve a balance between external factors such as time and money.

I somehow didnt even make the point I was gonna make in my previous post....meh. I blame hauling NPC tradepacks for an ungodly amount of time today.

I might return and try to make that point after sufficient amounts of sleep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I somehow didnt even make the point I was gonna make in my previous post....meh. I blame hauling NPC tradepacks for an ungodly amount of time today.

I might return and try to make that point after sufficient amounts of sleep.

Sure, no problem.  Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

One more vote for ESO... This is a solo game...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

(distant laughing)

You can also add an echo to it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think new players have a right to know that there are huge P2W elements when they will get to the "end-game" PVP. LazyPeons new video is just so misleading, he probably doesn't know those things himself either.

You have no Idea what P2W is and spread misleading all over the Place

Tell me pls example of game you consider p2w then...

Ever heard about Google....? Its a great Site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Ever heard about Google....? Its a great Site.

Why you come and butthurt into conversation you arent part of? if you want to be part of it first read it from begining.. I didnt ask him for example of game considered being p2w by most players, i asked him for example of game that match his own definition of p2w- game that give you guaranteed 100% win if you pay real money... That means MMO where even 4 years old kid will ALWAYS win if his parents will pay enough...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0