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How is the Ninja Awakening?


197 posts in this topic

Posted

Here is what I heard about the Ninja awakening when it came out: I

  • It was the worst of them all
  • It was no different from the non awakening (gameplay wise)
  • Was basically a slightly buffed non awakened Ninja
  • Took tons of AP to even compare to any other class' awakening
  • It's slow as hell
  • Makes you stationary when doing skills -> venerable
  • Like 0 CCs
  • Everyone switched from maining Ninja
  • Ninja is now weakest class post awakening

Are all these things still true? Has the Ninja gotten a buff by now? Or is the awakening still crap? I'm thinking of maining a Wizard if it is still most of these things. Thanks in advance.

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- Worst is subjective. Most will say one of either Valkyrie, Tamer, Ninja, Kunoichi, or Maehwa has the worst awakening. I personally don't believe any of those awakenings are particularly bad.

- Ninja's awakening changes its playstyle quite a bit in my opinion. We are more of a brawler type in awakening, at least compared to non-awakening. We still maintain the assassin role overall, but we get more tools for survival while also gaining lots of damage.

- I feel that only ~180 AP is required to be effective with the Ninja's awakening on a majority of players in PvP. In fact, I feel like that's how it is with basically every single class in this game post awakening. I haven't really played any other classes much to know for sure if one needs more AP than the other to be effective (except for maybe Warriors and Wizards/Witches).

- It is slower than non-awakening, but not slow overall. It might feel slow and clunky at lower levels and when getting used to it, but I found myself preferring the awakening's form of mobility over non-awakening.

- I feel like there are no more skills here than non-awakening that keep you stationary.

- Nearly every single skill has CC attached to it. 5 bounds, 3 stuns, 3 floats, 1 "launch," 1 stiffness, and 2 knockdowns when accounting for every single ability. 

- It seems a large portion of the Ninja community was either displeased with it and/or rerolled, yes.

- Ninja probably isn't one of the strongest, but I wouldn't say one of the weakest either. We fill our niche well, but are hard to play and perform as well as we can at the same time.

You get out what you put into the class. If it appeals to you, practice with it as much as you can. It personally feels worth it to me, but I can understand why the class as a whole does not fulfill what most people were hoping it would. It lacks frontal guard and super armor for the entire duration of our abilities, making it very risky to use in large scale pvp. However, when you play around this fact and use your abilities to their fullest potential, people will call you the OP class.

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Posted

For me, the awakening changed the Ninja in a direction opposite of its preawaken state. Pre, they are fast moving, attacking, dodgy shadows. 

Awakening slows them down and gives them more of a fighter feel with blocks. 

If you are in love with the preawaken quickness, Awakening might be a problem for you. 

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Posted

- Worst is subjective. Most will say one of either Valkyrie, Tamer, Ninja, Kunoichi, or Maehwa has the worst awakening. I personally don't believe any of those awakenings are particularly bad.

- Ninja's awakening changes its playstyle quite a bit in my opinion. We are more of a brawler type in awakening, at least compared to non-awakening. We still maintain the assassin role overall, but we get more tools for survival while also gaining lots of damage.

- I feel that only ~180 AP is required to be effective with the Ninja's awakening on a majority of players in PvP. In fact, I feel like that's how it is with basically every single class in this game post awakening. I haven't really played any other classes much to know for sure if one needs more AP than the other to be effective (except for maybe Warriors and Wizards/Witches).

- It is slower than non-awakening, but not slow overall. It might feel slow and clunky at lower levels and when getting used to it, but I found myself preferring the awakening's form of mobility over non-awakening.

- I feel like there are no more skills here than non-awakening that keep you stationary.

- Nearly every single skill has CC attached to it. 5 bounds, 3 stuns, 3 floats, 1 "launch," 1 stiffness, and 2 knockdowns when accounting for every single ability. 

- It seems a large portion of the Ninja community was either displeased with it and/or rerolled, yes.

- Ninja probably isn't one of the strongest, but I wouldn't say one of the weakest either. We fill our niche well, but are hard to play and perform as well as we can at the same time.

You get out what you put into the class. If it appeals to you, practice with it as much as you can. It personally feels worth it to me, but I can understand why the class as a whole does not fulfill what most people were hoping it would. It lacks frontal guard and super armor for the entire duration of our abilities, making it very risky to use in large scale pvp. However, when you play around this fact and use your abilities to their fullest potential, people will call you the OP class.

Awesome response. Thanks for covering that. So which, just based on gameplay (not AP), do you prefer? Pre or Post Awakening? Just in which is more fun to play.

 

For me, the awakening changed the Ninja in a direction opposite of its preawaken state. Pre, they are fast moving, attacking, dodgy shadows. 

Awakening slows them down and gives them more of a fighter feel with blocks. 

If you are in love with the preawaken quickness, Awakening might be a problem for you. 

Yep, the reason I mained the Ninja was because of the speedy movements (and the double jump lol). But I also really liked the warrior before I mained the Ninja because he was slow, but felt impactful and I liked the whole blocking thing. Is Post Awakening like a warrior then?

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Posted (edited)

  • Here is what I heard about the Ninja awakening when it came out: I
  • It was the worst of them all

Even if this is true, which i don't think it is, it is not by a large margin, but a small one.

  • It was no different from the non awakening (gameplay wise)

not true, it is substantially different gameplay wise; you do huge damage, have a spammable block and move an entirely different way.

  • Was basically a slightly buffed non awakened Ninja

Not true either, I don't know where you are getting this from, read these skill descriptions: Just compare numbers of original vs. awakaned.
Most awakening moves hit 5 to 9 times, one move even hits 15 (FIFTEEN!) Times, most damage will be in the 600 to 1000% range, a lot of skills have 100% crit.


Original form is generally 2 to 4 times, and scales from 400% to 1000%, but no guaranteed crit on most moves. So you see, awakening does around double damage.
http://bddatabase.net/us/skillcalc/28111

To keep it short: awakening moves 1 shot - 2 shot mobs and players, original form takes 3 4 5 moves.

  • Took tons of AP to even compare to any other class' awakening

not true, especially with our 1 shot ultimate move, you can melt high dp opponents ;O

  • It's slow as hell

only if you do not yet know how to use all the actual skills

  • Makes you stationary when doing skills -> venerable

not stationary, but some skills do not have front guard/ super armor, which should, the word is "Vulnerable" by the way :)
Yes, some moves, make you a little too vulnerable, like "drastic measure" if your opponent hits you before you land the blow, after you've charged it, you get knocked out.

  • Like 0 CCs

not true, nearly every move has some kind of cc, except standard attack and s + left mouse button,
read the skills in the link i gave, awakening; every single skill except thos two have cc, infact, our counterattack from block has a stun which isn't described..

  • Everyone switched from maining Ninja

maybe if they are flavour of the month rerollers, ninja is a LITTLE on the weak side, because they are squishy and can be interrupted if you play them wrong,
But if you play them right and have good gear... well, like any class then, you can solo entire parties of lower leveled/ lesser geared people, and sometimes, 1v2 equal gear.

  • Ninja is now weakest class post awakening

where is this coming from? they aren't "overpowered" but they aren't "weak" either, most ninjas who stick with it see them as quite balanced, having a diverse toolset,
we ask for a few buffs here and there, and changes to bugs (more super armor/ guard, fix bugs; pets seeing us in stealth, decapitation being slower than intended e.t.c)

  • Are all these things still true? Has the Ninja gotten a buff by now? Or is the awakening still crap? I'm thinking of maining a Wizard if it is still most of these things. Thanks in advance.


It's by no means "Crap", but it's not overpowered, and does rely on you learning the class, and knowing EXACTLY what each move does.
Honestly i wish all classes were a bit more like ninja in this regard, some other classes are too simple and effective, even when the user is not that good.

Hope that answered your questions.

Edited by Sam Adam

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Posted

Hope that answered your questions.

Kinda of does but tbh, it was slightly confusing to read when you typed in my post. Maybe use color for your responses? Not a big deal though, I got what you said. Thanks. It does but basically you keep coming back to "its just as good as any class... If you learn how to play it". So then what you're basically saying is that if I faught a 8 year old Witch with equal gear they have a good chance of beating me? Sure, Ninja sounds like a pretty skill based class, but doesn't that just mean that you're gimped as a Ninja because it takes to much less effort to be good as a Witch?

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Posted

Awesome response. Thanks for covering that. So which, just based on gameplay (not AP), do you prefer? Pre or Post Awakening? Just in which is more fun to play.

I prefer the class post awakening. Admittedly I am biased towards it since the awakening teaser video is the entire reason I started playing Ninja. However, I still do prefer everything about it post awakening - visuals, playstyle, and mechanics.

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Posted (edited)

Kinda of does but tbh, it was slightly confusing to read when you typed in my post. Maybe use color for your responses? Not a big deal though, I got what you said. Thanks. It does but basically you keep coming back to "its just as good as any class... If you learn how to play it". So then what you're basically saying is that if I faught a 8 year old Witch with equal gear they have a good chance of beating me? Sure, Ninja sounds like a pretty skill based class, but doesn't that just mean that you're gimped as a Ninja because it takes to much less effort to be good as a Witch?

To Answer your question: It takes more effort to play ninja to maximum potential than certain other classes. Not on the level of 30 year old playing perfect vs. 8 year old derping, no, but... to an extent, the less skilled berserker/ sorceror/ warrior/ wizard/ musa will have an easier time, a certain minimum skill is required to have a good/ easy time at all though.

I wrote in another thread "It feels like ninja was designed to be "high risk high reward" but we are now just "high risk", I still kind of agree, but that's because I don't play perfect, my gear is not good enough yet, and my actual hardware i play bdo on needs an upgrade; Ninja is a class that requires stable 45fps or so, you simply cannot get caught in some situations, and if hardware lag causes that, yer dead :D

I feel like only playing or see people play ninja will answer your other questsions, so here's a guy who made a long series of ninja world pvp.
This is a fairly skilled ninja, at 60, rolling over opponents, granted, not all 59+, still, he wipes out entire parties, and is never killed in this series, as far as i've seen.

The reason he never dies is because he plays perfectly, and is avoiding gear downgrade from -karma (it's a thing).

 

Edited by Sam Adam

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Posted

To Answer your question: It takes more effort to play ninja to maximum potential than certain other classes. Not on the level of 30 year old playing perfect vs. 8 year old derping, no, but... to an extent, the less skilled berserker/ sorceror/ warrior/ wizard/ musa will have an easier time, a certain minimum skill is required to have a good/ easy time at all though.
I wrote in another thread "It feels like ninja was designed to be "high risk high reward" but we are now just "high risk", I still kind of agree, but that's because I don't play perfect, my gear is not good enough yet, and my actual hardware i play bdo on needs an upgrade; Ninja is a class that requires stable 45fps or so, you simply cannot get caught in some situations, and if hardware lag causes that, yer dead :D

I feel like only playing or see people play ninja will answer your other questsions, so here's a guy who made a long series of ninja world pvp.
This is a fairly skilled ninja, at 60, rolling over opponents, granted, not all 59+, still, he wipes out entire parties, and is never killed in this series, as far as i've seen.

The reason he never dies is because he plays perfectly, and is avoiding gear downgrade from -karma (it's a thing).

 

Ah cool looking video, I'll give it a watch later today. Also, could I get a link to your discussion? It sounds interesting.

I prefer the class post awakening. Admittedly I am biased towards it since the awakening teaser video is the entire reason I started playing Ninja. However, I still do prefer everything about it post awakening - visuals, playstyle, and mechanics.

Hm, ok. Ya, I'm kinda the same. I mean, when BDO launched I was pretty set on maining a Ninja once they came out, but after seeing the Awakening, my decisions was finalized. (annnddddd still have not touched awakening...)

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Posted



The reason he never dies is because he plays perfectly, and is avoiding gear downgrade from -karma (it's a thing).

 

NO

Your gear doesn't degrade if you die in desert at all. He can break crystals. He dies plenty, just never posts losses in his videos. 

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Posted

 

Your gear doesn't degrade if you die in desert at all. He can break crystals. He dies plenty, just never posts losses in his videos. 

Ya, figured.

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Posted (edited)

Here is what I heard about the Ninja awakening when it came out: I

  • It was the worst of them all
  • It was no different from the non awakening (gameplay wise)
  • Was basically a slightly buffed non awakened Ninja
  • Took tons of AP to even compare to any other class' awakening
  • It's slow as hell
  • Makes you stationary when doing skills -> venerable
  • Like 0 CCs
  • Everyone switched from maining Ninja
  • Ninja is now weakest class post awakening

Are all these things still true? Has the Ninja gotten a buff by now? Or is the awakening still crap? I'm thinking of maining a Wizard if it is still most of these things. Thanks in advance.

If you need some convincing to play ninja, you should play another class.

  • It is low tier, unless you really enjoy playing ninja, in which case you can make it seem like a balanced class through skill/gear. 
  • very different, pre awakening is more mobile, more skills that allow you to catch/initiate, a lot less damage. Awakened is the opposite, less mobile, 1 initiate skill unless you include jump block (which is one of the skills pre awake that you can use in awakening), and more damage
  • It will feel like a different class, and most skilled ninjas will switch to shortsword for combos/self buffs/mobility
  • Damage is actually good, would rank it high mid-tier, and double grabs allow for longer DPS combos, if rng gods allow you to successfully grab twice, you can usually 1 combo every class 
  • Yes, it will feel slow especially if you played pre awakening, if you didn't then it'll feel 'normal' or if you came from playing witch/wiz it might even feel 'fast'
  • Yes, most damage skills are stationary or moves very slightly forward minus your 1 initiate skill (murderous intent)
  • It has a good variety of CC's, but people will forget to mention that most of you skills only have CC's for the first slash of the skill or the last slash of the skill, so if you miss that slash with the CC proc, there is no CC. Most of ninja blocks/SA skills are the same, not full skill duration but fortunately some of the block animations are chainable/cancelable to extend block duration on skill, but keep in mind these attacks aren't very strong, so when you compare block skills from other classes like sorc violation, that has top tier damage, full block animation, and CC on full animation vs combining 3 skills to have the same amount of block but less CC and less damage, the amount of work you have to do for the value you gain is quite lackluster.
  • A lot of people switched because of the whole balance patch issue, where kakao/PA kept ignoring that ninja was lacking their buff for the longest time, not to mention almost every other class was getting their awakening, and you had to wait 3 months or so for ninja/kuno awakening. 
  • Ninja is probably among the weaker classes, even kuno is better off with more block and SA on their skills, on top of better range and mobility. 
Edited by Tsurugi
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Posted

Awesome response. Thanks for covering that. So which, just based on gameplay (not AP), do you prefer? Pre or Post Awakening? Just in which is more fun to play.

 

Yep, the reason I mained the Ninja was because of the speedy movements (and the double jump lol). But I also really liked the warrior before I mained the Ninja because he was slow, but felt impactful and I liked the whole blocking thing. Is Post Awakening like a warrior then?

Well, it definitely feels more like you should be in the fray. BUT, as stated earlier there seems ti be a lack if iframes ir something. I don't know. I stopped my ninja after awakening and mained a musa. Now, my awaken musa feels like my preawaken ninja. 

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Posted

The reason he never dies is because he plays perfectly, and is avoiding gear downgrade from -karma (it's a thing).

He does die though, this is a compilation of him killing. "Is there anyone seriouly think I had not die at all during those fight?
I'm actually making a compilation vid of me dying, before that is done, please just enjoy this one first."

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Large scale GVG we are pretty shit tier. in like a 10v10 we can really shine.

 

Honestly if you want fast easy killing power, roll Musa. In retrospect I wish I picked a different class to play from the start and I'v sunk way to many pearls into my character to reroll.

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Posted (edited)

Here is what I heard about the Ninja awakening when it came out: I

  • It was the worst of them all
  • It was no different from the non awakening (gameplay wise)
  • Was basically a slightly buffed non awakened Ninja
  • Took tons of AP to even compare to any other class' awakening
  • It's slow as hell
  • Makes you stationary when doing skills -> venerable
  • Like 0 CCs
  • Everyone switched from maining Ninja
  • Ninja is now weakest class post awakening

Are all these things still true? Has the Ninja gotten a buff by now? Or is the awakening still crap? I'm thinking of maining a Wizard if it is still most of these things. Thanks in advance.

I don't feel like it's the worst, i'd say it's ok... not the strongest but not the lowest.

Normal form is more tricky than awakening form imo. With awakening spells you can play way more aggro.

Some classes deal more damage indeed but the ninja don't have to envy them.

Yes, it's can feel slowly compara to others classes but you can fight without any problem, you'll maybe miss somes skills at the beginning but you'll train for that to anticipe the movement.


I don't feel like i miss CCs expect if you compare yourself to a berseker INDEEED.

I see more ninja than before that's maybe true.

Imo, at the moment Ninja is the 4th strongest class of BDO.
If you ask that for node wars, red battlefield or group pvp, just play witch, wizard, Ranger Berserker.

Edited by Vlew

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Posted

I don't feel like it's the worst, i'd say it's ok... not the strongest but not the lowest.
Normal form is more tricky than awakening form imo. With awakening spells you can play way more aggro.

Some classes deal more damage indeed but the ninja don't have to envy them.

Yes, it's can feel slowly compara to others classes but you can fight without any problem, you'll maybe miss somes skills at the beginning but you'll train for that to anticipe the movement.


I don't feel like i miss CCs expect if you compare yourself to a berseker INDEEED.

I see more ninja than before that's maybe true.

Imo, at the moment Ninja is the 4th strongest class of BDO.
If you ask that for node wars, red battlefield or group pvp, just play witch, wizard, Ranger Berserker.

Well if more classes deal more damage and attack faster, isn't the Ninja super gimped?

 

What do you mean by this: "you'll maybe miss somes skills at the beginning but you'll train for that to anticipe the movement."

 

Out of 12 classes the Ninja is the fourth? How? I know Ranger is at top, closely followed by Sorc and Witch and Wizard. Since awakening Warriors got pretty good. Oh and, I hear that Kunochi is better in like every way. Also, Blader/ Plum both hit harder and are faster. Tamers pet I hear is a really good counter to the Ninja. I hear Valk is pretty bad though and, as far as I know, Berzerker has always been bad. Is all this still true? If so that would make Ninja possibly the 10th best class, possibly lower (out of twelve).

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Posted

NO

Your gear doesn't degrade if you die in desert at all. He can break crystals. He dies plenty, just never posts losses in his videos. 

Interesting, and, i read after i wrote the reply that he edited out deaths, and was making a video only consisting only of his deaths.

As for gear downgrading elsewhere, it does right? just not in desert.

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Posted (edited)

Kinda of does but tbh, it was slightly confusing to read when you typed in my post. Maybe use color for your responses? Not a big deal though, I got what you said. Thanks. It does but basically you keep coming back to "its just as good as any class... If you learn how to play it". So then what you're basically saying is that if I faught a 8 year old Witch with equal gear they have a good chance of beating me? Sure, Ninja sounds like a pretty skill based class, but doesn't that just mean that you're gimped as a Ninja because it takes to much less effort to be good as a Witch?

Classes in BDO (and in most games actualy) have a limit on how good they can perform. Difficult to master classes have a high limit, but of course it is difficult to reach it. Easy to master classes have a low limit, but easy to reach it.

So, if you don't know how to use your ninja, the 8 year old witch will win. But if you know how to use your ninja, no witch should ever win, no matter how skilled they are.

Edited by Tinaral

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Posted

NO

Your gear doesn't degrade if you die in desert at all. He can break crystals. He dies plenty, just never posts losses i

I think sam was jjoking

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Posted (edited)

Well if more classes deal more damage and attack faster, isn't the Ninja super gimped?

 

What do you mean by this: "you'll maybe miss somes skills at the beginning but you'll train for that to anticipe the movement."

 

Out of 12 classes the Ninja is the fourth? How? I know Ranger is at top, closely followed by Sorc and Witch and Wizard. Since awakening Warriors got pretty good. Oh and, I hear that Kunochi is better in like every way. Also, Blader/ Plum both hit harder and are faster. Tamers pet I hear is a really good counter to the Ninja. I hear Valk is pretty bad though and, as far as I know, Berzerker has always been bad. Is all this still true? If so that would make Ninja possibly the 10th best class, possibly lower (out of twelve).

Well, if you want to play the strongest class, you'll have to play something else than Ninja but that's not mean it's weak at all.
As an example, if you compare to lol, it's like " omg Leblanc so strong, please ban her " that's not mean you'll never win against a Leblanc.

So of course, there are better class than ninja but you wanted to know if the ninja was really weak or not. Imo it's not.
---
I mean somes skills can be diffult to hit without training cause of slow animation or cast or just movement of enemy player. But with experience you won't miss.

I don't feel like Ranger is first, in fact i don't remember being killed by a ranger in PK (group pvp is another story). But i would put Witch and Wizard first (i count them as one), Then Berserker (no joke), Then Sorceress. It's true, the warrior deal a lot of damage but same here, atm i don't remember had any problem against them except longest fight.

Kunoichi isn't better than Ninja, or i only met bad kunoi (it's possible after all)

Anyway, imo... the real problematic classes to play against as a ninja are Berserker and Sorceress.
That's why i put the ninja in the 4th position, maybe 5th.

It's also depends of your gameplay, mastery of that classes, knowledge about your classes and others classes.
I mean a bad ninja will think is at the 10th position, a good one will think he's first.

But i have to admit, i mostly do PK, i don't like the Red battlefield because i just don't like being farmed by Range classe within 20 minutes.
As i said before, if you want to group pvp, Ninja isn't the best class and probably go down to 7 or 8th position for sure but for solo pk, solo kill in gvg/node wars it's 4th or 5th easily. (Still imo)


EDIT, i want to add something, You also have to know in BDO : THE GEAR & LVL DO EVERYTHING.
You can have the best gameplay on ninja on your server you won't kick ass if you're not geared and even 1 level can -----ed you so hard.
As an example if you are 59 you'll have a hard time against a 60.

Edited by Vlew

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Posted (edited)

Interesting, and, i read after i wrote the reply that he edited out deaths, and was making a video only consisting only of his deaths.

As for gear downgrading elsewhere, it does right? just not in desert.

sorry for blurry image, didn't want to quote entire valencia part 2 thread from GM's. Basically only way you can degrade gear is if you are negative and die to NPC's. Only items that can have crystals can degrade I think. 

bdo pvp rules.jpg

Edited by Mtl

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Posted (edited)

Well if more classes deal more damage and attack faster, isn't the Ninja super gimped?

 

What do you mean by this: "you'll maybe miss somes skills at the beginning but you'll train for that to anticipe the movement."

 

Out of 12 classes the Ninja is the fourth? How? I know Ranger is at top, closely followed by Sorc and Witch and Wizard. Since awakening Warriors got pretty good. Oh and, I hear that Kunochi is better in like every way. Also, Blader/ Plum both hit harder and are faster. Tamers pet I hear is a really good counter to the Ninja. I hear Valk is pretty bad though and, as far as I know, Berzerker has always been bad. Is all this still true? If so that would make Ninja possibly the 10th best class, possibly lower (out of twelve).

If you go onto ninja forums, you should expect some hardcore biases from the guys who won't change their opinion no matter what because after all the abuse, they stuck with ninja.

Objectively speaking, ninja is mediocre burst but 2 grabs allow you to have longer combo chains for pretty decent dps, but the problem is longer chains w/o def utilities makes this class low tier. You can shine if no one is peeling for your target and if you manage to CC chain them (or have good gear so you dodge most attacks and near one shot people who aren't as geared), which you can easily do in open world because of stealth. That's the only big plus ninja has over the other classes, surprise first strike from stealth which is pretty hard to counter.

By anticipating movement, that guy means know when to go in, because obviously ninja's kit doesn't have reliable/long SA and block, so you have to go in when there is an animation lock or opening, like block jump behind blocking skills, or murderous intent when target is animation locked without SA.

Ninja is definitely not 4th, if it were 4th, there would be more ninjas, period. Berserkers have been buffed up the butthole, and is one of the top classes atm.

Edited by Tsurugi
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Posted

That's the only big plus ninja has over the other classes, surprise first strike from stealth which is pretty hard to counter.

 

Which attack are you talking about? Do you mean "Heart Aiming"? Or are you talking about an Awakening skill?

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Which attack are you talking about? Do you mean "Heart Aiming"? Or are you talking about an Awakening skill?

i'm talking about attacking someone from stealth. If they don't know you are there, you will get first strike

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