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Psycho-stalking arrogant grind-PKers

81 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

You are a karma bomber. The unspoken rule is the stronger player owns the spot. Had they been weaker than you and we're unable to kill you at all, the pker would show courtesy of leaving because they are weaker. You should show the same courtesy, if you are weaker you should move on and stop karma bombing. 

as much as I hate having to give up a spot to a stronger player, even if they are a jerk, it beats getting a bad reputation for karma bombing. That's how you get entire guilds to crap all over you. 

Edited by Tomo

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Im new to BDO and i think this is awesome that you do this. Keep doing it, the more time they have to spend on you, the less time they have to gain anything.

I would do the same if i would ever get to that level. But i wont. I picked BDO for crafting and for the mount taming. I dont even think im going to level higher than 30 in this.

 

OP, your doing great.

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I often find myself in a situation at pirates where this type of person appear. I don't have a lot of time to just mindlessly grind for hours, so when I actually do grind I'd like to use my time as effective as I can. I can clear all of b spot/behind main spot w/e at pirates before they respawn (even with the camp far back) which means I can do the full rotation solo. I finally sit down and start grinding with the limited time that I have to play, I find an empty B spot on a channel and start grinding. it's all going good etc - Then some random guy comes and takes a camp. I run by him, not wanting to kill him because maybe he didn't know I was there. I run to the next camp and he runs by me just like I did to him, and starts the next camp ahead of me. To me this means contesting the spot. He doesn't ask for duo, he doesn't ask anything he just starts grinding. I ask if he can find another spot as I don't have much time to grind and I'd like to be effective - He ignores me and goes on to the next camp.

After this I have two solutions.

1. Kill him, hoping it will make him aware that he should probably find another spot.

2. Get my profit/exp increase halved by not killing him and letting him take half the rotation.

I usually go for 1. Because as I've said, I don't have much time to actively play, and besides why would I let him grind the rotation and halt my progression when he hasn't even said a word to me?

I lose karma, he loses nothing. He comes back and does the same thing. Never saying a word, or sometimes "Hope you have enough karma haha" as he grins while being guildless for the SOLE PURPOSE of doing what he is currently doing (Karma bombing).

Speaking of, how can you honestly say Karma bombing doesn't exist when another player has the possiblity of destroying your potential gain by just running in and halting your progression for legit no reason and with no effort involved.

Put it up side by side and see who the real no-life is - One guy is trying to improve, the other guy is trying to prevent the first guy from improving - Who's the actual "no-life" moron?

To think grown up people can have the mentality of "If I can't have it, no one can have it!" in a videogame is borderline mentally inept, man.

So next time you think you're being hella funny, edgy, "Rawr x3 xDD" and a vigilante of justice, remember that you are wasting your own and another person's time for NO reason.

It's kinda sad that there's one player in a hundred which actually makes parties with lower geared/leveled people to help them instead of just being douches.

Thing is, if a guy actually came up to me and told me he was low geared or new to the game and asked for a party, I'd party with him EVERY time. NO ONE ever says this shit. They just walk in and start grinding without a word.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

having a reason != justification. and "having fun" is easily the worst reason to do anything that could spoil the fun for others.

otherwise we would have to symphatize with rapists, murderers and other criminals, they must have a reason for what they're doing as well. Would you let a rapist have his way and get away, because hes having fun?

and pk'ers in this game ARE criminals, why else do you think you get a "criminal" debuff that sends you to jail on death if you kill someone in the desert, or why else would guards start to attack you with negative karma? Why again should anyone relate to pker's again? Oh thats right because they live their lifes in this game and are too butthurt if they had to share a little of their loot & xp per hour with others, ye thats sounds like a relatable person i can sympathize with.

BDO isn't real life. PKers in a video game have no moral parallel with rapists or murderers. The human behind the screen does not get forced into sex or cease to exist if they get PKed in game. Your entire point is null.

And it isn't about "sympathizing" with anyone. I'm not asking you to be grateful. It's about respecting the nature of the game. The --> video game <-- allows a player to kill another player outside of Node Wars and RBF and Guild Wars. Why?

Because there is finite real estate in this game. If every grinding spot in every channel is taken, without PvP, the only thing a player could do is stop playing the game until someone leaves. But he doesn't have to do that... he can PvP someone out. Or at least, he's supposed to (else what's the point of this mechanic)... but with the current karma system, winning means losing and that doesn't make any sense at all. 


That's why the "player rules" exist. They are meant to fix "winning = losing". By principle alone, you should be in support of this.

 

EDIT:

The player made system is simple. If someone PKs you, you go back and YOU flag. If you kill them and they come back and they don't flag on you, you can accuse them of karma bombing and you maintain the high road.

If he does flag on you, you're free to defend. It goes back and forth this way until someone leaves.

However, if both of you are stubborn and have knocked both of your karma down to near negative. Simply ask for a duel for final rights. This is probably the most flawed part of the system but there has to be a cut off somewhere. 

If followed to a T, everyone leaves respecting each other and nobody is salty. Game becomes less toxic and everyone lives a happy life

Edited by Sfer
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Posted

Because there is finite real estate in this game. If every grinding spot in every channel is taken, without PvP, the only thing a player could do is stop playing the game until someone leaves. But he doesn't have to do that... he can PvP someone out. Or at least, he's supposed to (else what's the point of this mechanic)...

wrong, show me where the devs stated that THIS was the intended use of the pvp system, and that it isnt just here for people to simply "have fun" pking others, or play as an outlaw. this "ruleset" and way of thinking is made up by PLAYERS.

Also, by your logic, if every grind spot in every channel is taken, and you happen to be lower leveled or geared worse than all those who are on those spots, all you can do is stop playing the game... how does that sound in your mind if you imagine yourself in that position?

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wrong, show me where the devs stated that THIS was the intended use of the pvp system, and that it isnt just here for people to simply "have fun" pking others, or play as an outlaw. this "ruleset" and way of thinking is made up by PLAYERS.

Also, by your logic, if every grind spot in every channel is taken, and you happen to be lower leveled or geared worse than all those who are on those spots, all you can do is stop playing the game... how does that sound in your mind if you imagine yourself in that position?

You have this option available to you to remove someone from the field in a game with only so many grinding spots and you're saying that isn't supposed to be impactful? You're being dishonest.

As for your second bit, you bring more people. The point is, there's an option. With the current karma system... there isn't and without PvP at all... there isn't. Assuming these spots are filled to capacity in all regards. 

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Posted

Sigh.

I think some people are only registering the word "karma-bomber" and then writing a reply based on that without actually getting the message in my original post. While I agree, "grind-PKer" is a bit missleading on the title... but this thread about karma-bombing the people who act tough, have no "real" reason to PK (aka. I'm not being on their way/contesting any spot which would be worth PvPing over) and only PK people they know they can kill in two hits while still being afraid of negative karma.

Stuff

Dude did you even read my original post? Man! Majority of the people getting Vietnam flashbacks from karma bombing just assume I go in middle of a crowded spot and think I own the place.

Not all PKs are justified. Not all of the karma bombing are justified neither. There's bad bombing and there's the good kind of bombing. Same goes for PKs. It's not all black and white some of you make it to be.

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Posted

i think the ones disconnected from the reality of the game are the ones crying about lost karma?

losing karma on a pk is part of this game, whereas "contesting" grindspots and bragging rights to keep these spots by killing others is a "rule" made up by players.

Really? Here I thought killing other players as I saw fit was also part of this game. Or am I using cheats to do so?

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Posted

Sigh.

I think some people are only registering the word "karma-bomber" and then writing a reply based on that without actually getting the message in my original post. While I agree, "grind-PKer" is a bit missleading on the title... but this thread about karma-bombing the people who act tough, have no "real" reason to PK (aka. I'm not being on their way/contesting any spot which would be worth PvPing over) and only PK people they know they can kill in two hits while still being afraid of negative karma.

Dude did you even read my original post? Man! Majority of the people getting Vietnam flashbacks from karma bombing just assume I go in middle of a crowded spot and think I own the place.

Not all PKs are justified. Not all of the karma bombing are justified neither. There's bad bombing and there's the good kind of bombing. Same goes for PKs. It's not all black and white some of you make it to be.

No.

All PKs are justified and all Karma Bombing is justified. They are both supported by the game.
However, there are solutions to the former issue and there are NONE for the latter. Which is why this conflict exists and is why player "unspoken rules" were developed.

This isn't a moral argument. It's about fixing a design flaw.

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Posted

No.
All PKs are justified and all Karma Bombing is justified. They are both supported by the game.
However, there are solutions to the former issue and there are NONE for the latter. Which is why this conflict exists and is why player "unspoken rules" were developed.

This isn't a moral argument. It's about fixing a design flaw.

if it's justified, it's not an issue. Choose one, but that one then counts for both. (by the way there are ways to deal with the second, the exact same ways that work for the first)

Really? Here I thought killing other players as I saw fit was also part of this game. Or am I using cheats to do so?

nothing against killing other players, but are you crying about losing karma if you do? if you dont then everything is fine.

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if it's justified, it's not an issue. Choose one, but that one then counts for both. (by the way there are ways to deal with the second, the exact same ways that work for the first)

There is not a way to deal with Karma bombing without giving up a spot you've A: been occupying prior or B: decided to contest. It doesn't matter how many people you bring to help you deal with a guildless/undeccable karma bomber, you will never win... even though you have been winning. I don't understand where you don't see the problem. 

The problem lies in the penalty of going negative. It is not practical to contest any spot ever if you can't wardecc and you might as well not even have the non node war/RBF/Wardec open world PvP mechanic in the game at that point.

You say it could be there for players to have outlaw gameplay. WHAT gameplay? There is nothing substantial for outlaws. There is nothing they can do that no one else can. This isn't enough of a reason for the current state of open world PvP to even exist.

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Posted (edited)

the person you're describing is not a kazillion ap/dp player. He's probably some bloke who finally got duo gear. Probably is his 160/200d reason.

1. The kazillion ap/dp dude wouldn't be caught dead trying to grind some out in nowhere spot in sausages. It's either main spot or nothing. Nothing elseI in sausages is worth their time.

2. They don't care about going negative. No one at sausages is ever going to be able to kill them for them to care and those few who can, they are at war with so the karma penalty doesn't apply.

Grats on showing a mid tier scrub his place tho.

Very well said, And I must add, don't allow the toxic player base left Un-checked, We must put them in their place or they will fester.

Edited by Corvox

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Posted

 

Yeah, uh... I guess we have different views of what's a PvP game and what's not.

Well mate but thats how sandbox, open world pvp works. Someone comes along and contests u. And I really would like to know where u find all this ppl... I was at pirates, sausan, elrics, pila ku and I can't say I find pvp there. Maybe like 2-3 ppl who flag once in about 1 week :/ 

I actually go for grind spots and contest ppl because thats the only "good" pvp u get in this game. And I am not talking about 1on1, I am talking about 1 vs 5 or 2 vs 5. 

RBF? Brainless zerging for no reason, no tactics, nobody cares about anything, just smashing buttons.

Node wars? Yeah maybe... if u get contested... and if so, its like 1/10 equal fight.

Arena? Crying about gear, if its not gear its the class... 1-2 fights and its done... 

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There is not a way to deal with Karma bombing without giving up a spot you've A: been occupying prior or B: decided to contest. It doesn't matter how many people you bring to help you deal with a guildless/undeccable karma bomber, you will never win... even though you have been winning. I don't understand where you don't see the problem. 

The problem lies in the penalty of going negative. It is not practical to contest any spot ever if you can't wardecc and you might as well not even have the non node war/RBF/Wardec open world PvP mechanic in the game at that point.

You say it could be there for players to have outlaw gameplay. WHAT gameplay? There is nothing substantial for outlaws. There is nothing they can do that no one else can. This isn't enough of a reason for the current state of open world PvP to even exist.

ways to "contest" a spot, if youre under-lvld or geared worse and cant beat the others:

  • ask politely to leave or group
  • karmabomb
  • leave / switch channels

ways to "contest" a spot, if youre geared better and can kill the others

  • ask politely to leave or group
  • kill them repeatedly without -----ing about -karma, just add him to your rotation
  • leave / switch channels
  • bring more people so you can rotate who last-hits him, with a fast clearing speed as a group you're able to keep him in spot for a looong time without someone in your group needing to go -karma, and can eventually even regain karma faster than you lose it.
  • get him killed by npc's
  • simply outfarm him hard (since you're geared better), that should make him tired and leave quiet quickly.

of course all of those points are totally useless, if someone decided to just actually grief you, and doesn't even care much about his own farm, but that would probably just happen if you somehow really pissed that guy off and probably deserve it.

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This isn't a moral argument. It's about fixing a design flaw.

You see, I didn't create this thread to discuss how to fix this mess people call PvP in BDO. I just wanted to hear some stories of people karma bombing griefers who had it coming.

Karma-bombing is as flawed as the whole concept of PvP in this game. The developers got it all wrong on the point where you have action combat combined stats which affect if you actually hit someone or not. And on that point it pretty much snowballed downhill. Like I said on the original post, I'd much rather have meaningful, balanced PvP in this game (things like trade item stealing, capped PvP stats etc.) instead of what we have now, which is basically "look how much higher gear score I have than you hardy har har you're dead!". I play this game for what it is, a PvE game.

Look, I fixed the problem for you. Cap PvP stats (mostly AP/DP) to some ridiculously easy-to-attain level. Something like +8 gear. Only get negative karma for things which would be regarded outlaw. Remove all negative karma gear-related punishments, make karma only to be good-guy-o-meter. Add more outlaw outposts and NPCs across game.  BOOM! There's much more balanced PvP for ya with a lot more gameplay related fun involved.

The thing is majority of the player base don't want balance, they just want to be more OP than the guy next to them.

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Posted (edited)

The thing is majority of the player base don't want balance, they just want to be more OP than the guy next to them.

Yes, it's the most basic principle of a computer rpg : improve your character until you reach OPness and start again. Nobody plays a rpg to be like the next guy. What's wrong with that ? If you don't like it, it's ok but don't tell us there is a problem...

We could also cap the life skills because why would someone get more product out of processing the same amount of materials than the next guy, right ? It's totally unfair.

Edited by WeaselPaw

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Dude I would kill you before you can say "i-frame" so I dont think your tactic will work fine with most "PKs". My advice would be to stop wasting your time in spots you clearly can not keep.

Suffers from low self esteem & text a book case of histrionic personality disorder.

There i just saved you $175...go get some help.

 
 
 
 

Histrionic personality disorder

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Posted (edited)

The fact is, the people getting the negative Karma are the ones grieving here, and they are just blaming someone else or the game for it.

What makes me think that ? well, quite simple actually, NO ONE, has forced them to go kill other players, in fact you have multiple other solution at hand that could be use prior getting to the last resort of PKing. First of them is actually engaging conversation and being friendly, but I guess that we can rule this one as it take too much time and Time = XP and $.

So the fact that they decide on their own that they have NO OTHER option but to kill  is ALL on THEM !

Now I am not saying that aren't any grievers that will just come and annoy you at time, but there are 36 channels on the game to fix that issue, and I can safely bet that 99% of the people playing BDO do it because they like having fun and not because they want to use this as a tool to annoy the F___K out of someone.

I landed on people spot so many time by now, I would not even be able to count them, and 90% large majority of the times I have no issues ! People come up to me and tell me Spot taken, I ask if they are planning to stay long, and if they they do (Which most of the time they do) I let them know i am going to take few mobs outside of rotation until I can change channel. Sometime they even group me until I can switch channel.

Now 10% very rarely, I meet people who proceed to flag up immediately without even a word. this event if followed up by following 2 scenarios'

  1. The guy turns red and keeps killing me and anyone else as the matter of fact in the vicinity, in which case I distance myself if I really can't defend, or try my best at PvP if the match is not obviously one-sided (very rarely but it happens). This case usually ends with "GG" or "GF" and "Have fun see you next time".
  2. I get killed once, or twice and get insulted as no tomorrow because I have the audacity of having logged in on the wrong channel and I am killing mobs in the area (not even in the rotation) which belongs to HIM and HIM ONLY.

I am not going to say that the later behavior was not infuriating me at first, but after 3-4 times it gets rather funny to see psychopaths in action most probably going mental behind their computer because there is another player in HIS area in a MMO. Will these people end up being Karma-bombed as they call it? YES most definitely.

So do i think the system is flawed ? No, not really, i think it works just as intended. If you are nice with fellow player they will pass it along, but if you behave with such a lack of respect, well be ready to accumulate karma from people. And if you are not ready to accumulate it then I repeat myself: THAT IS YOUR DAMN FAULT !

Edited by Yuria_Tan
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Posted

The fact is, the people getting the negative Karma are the ones grieving here, and they are just blaming someone else or the game for it.

What makes me think that ? well, quite simple actually, NO ONE, has forced them to go kill other players, in fact you have multiple other solution at hand that could be use prior getting to the last resort of PKing. First of them is actually engaging conversation and being friendly, but I guess that we can rule this one as it take too much time and Time = XP and $.

So the fact that they decide on their own that they have NO OTHER option but to kill  is ALL on THEM !

Now I am not saying that aren't any grievers that will just come and annoy you at time, but there are 36 channels on the game to fix that issue, and I can safely bet that 99% of the people playing BDO do it because they like having fun and not because they want to use this as a tool to annoy the F___K out of someone.

I landed on people spot so many time by now, I would not even be able to count them, and 90% of the time I have no issues ! People come up to me and tell me Spot taken, I ask if they are planning to stay long, and if they they do (Which most of the time they do) I let them know i am going to take few mobs outside of rotation until I can change channel. Sometime they even group me until I can switch channel.

Now 10% of the time I meet people who proceed to flag up immediately without even a word. this event if followed up by following 2 scenarios'

  1. The guy turns red and keeps killing me and anyone else as the matter of fact in the vicinity, in which case I distance myself if I really can't defend, or try my best at PvP if the match is not obviously one-sided (very rarely but it happens). This case usually ends with "GG" or "GF" and "Have fun see you next time".
  2. I get killed once, or twice and get insulted as no tomorrow because I have the audacity of having logged in on the wrong channel and I am killing mobs in the area (not even in the rotation) which belongs to HIM and HIM ONLY.

I am not going to say that the later behavior was not infuriating me at first, but after 3-4 times it gets rather funny to see psychopaths in action most probably going mental behind their computer because there is another player in HIS area in a MMO. Will these people end up being Karma-bombed as they call it? YES most definitely.

So do i think the system is flawed ? No, not really, i think it works just as intended. If you are nice with fellow player they will pass it along, but if you behave with such a lack of respect, well be ready to accumulate karma from people. And if you are not ready to accumulate it then I repeat myself: THAT IS YOUR DAMN FAULT !

analytical statistics (enumerative) are 100% wrong, 100% of the time. =)

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analytical statistics (enumerative) are 100% wrong, 100% of the time. =)

Thanks good point !

Edited my message following this.

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Yes, the system is flawed as it is right now. Bring back EXP loss on pvp death so the only karma-bombers are those that are willing to spend pearls to bring you to negative :D

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Posted (edited)

The fact is, the people getting the negative Karma are the ones grieving here, and they are just blaming someone else or the game for it.

What makes me think that ? well, quite simple actually, NO ONE, has forced them to go kill other players, in fact you have multiple other solution at hand that could be use prior getting to the last resort of PKing. First of them is actually engaging conversation and being friendly, but I guess that we can rule this one as it take too much time and Time = XP and $.

So the fact that they decide on their own that they have NO OTHER option but to kill  is ALL on THEM !

Now I am not saying that aren't any grievers that will just come and annoy you at time, but there are 36 channels on the game to fix that issue, and I can safely bet that 99% of the people playing BDO do it because they like having fun and not because they want to use this as a tool to annoy the F___K out of someone.

I landed on people spot so many time by now, I would not even be able to count them, and 90% large majority of the times I have no issues ! People come up to me and tell me Spot taken, I ask if they are planning to stay long, and if they they do (Which most of the time they do) I let them know i am going to take few mobs outside of rotation until I can change channel. Sometime they even group me until I can switch channel.

Now 10% very rarely, I meet people who proceed to flag up immediately without even a word. this event if followed up by following 2 scenarios'

  1. The guy turns red and keeps killing me and anyone else as the matter of fact in the vicinity, in which case I distance myself if I really can't defend, or try my best at PvP if the match is not obviously one-sided (very rarely but it happens). This case usually ends with "GG" or "GF" and "Have fun see you next time".
  2. I get killed once, or twice and get insulted as no tomorrow because I have the audacity of having logged in on the wrong channel and I am killing mobs in the area (not even in the rotation) which belongs to HIM and HIM ONLY.

I am not going to say that the later behavior was not infuriating me at first, but after 3-4 times it gets rather funny to see psychopaths in action most probably going mental behind their computer because there is another player in HIS area in a MMO. Will these people end up being Karma-bombed as they call it? YES most definitely.

So do i think the system is flawed ? No, not really, i think it works just as intended. If you are nice with fellow player they will pass it along, but if you behave with such a lack of respect, well be ready to accumulate karma from people. And if you are not ready to accumulate it then I repeat myself: THAT IS YOUR DAMN FAULT !

I've mirrored this time and time again in the past. People who insist in taking part of the "PvP system" (outside of node wars) have to be willing to accept the fact that karma is there, and if the person you killed can't fight back then they WILL most likely karma-bomb you. In fact many of the fresh 50 players may not even be aware of the karma system as it now starts at 50 and is just kind of thrown in your face. Now is karma-bombing a flaw in the system? Sure! Is it griefing? Perhaps! But YOU chose to kill them and in turn are also a griefer, so man up deal with the system we have or maybe..I don't know...stop killing people on a whim?

Edit for clarity; I'm not aiming this at you Yuria_Tan, just using the word "you" in general for anyone this does apply to.

Edited by Tamuril

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Posted

The fact is, the people getting the negative Karma are the ones grieving here, and they are just blaming someone else or the game for it.

 

I've mirrored this time and time again in the past. People who insist in taking part of the "PvP system" (outside of node wars) have to be willing to accept the fact that karma is there, and if the person you killed can't fight back then they WILL most likely karma-bomb you. In fact many of the fresh 50 players may not even be aware of the karma system as it now starts at 50 and is just kind of thrown in your face. Now is karma-bombing a flaw in the system? Sure! Is it griefing? Perhaps! But YOU chose to kill them and in turn are also a griefer, so man up deal with the system we have or maybe..I don't know...stop killing people on a whim?

This is what some of the people aren't getting. The griefing goes both ways. If you can't handle the consequences, then don't do it and act like it's top tier PvP.

Yes, the system is flawed as it is right now. Bring back EXP loss on pvp death so the only karma-bombers are those that are willing to spend pearls to bring you to negative :D

Challenge accepted. I have like 40+ Elion's tears from black spirit minigame.

Yes, it's the most basic principle of a computer rpg : improve your character until you reach OPness and start again. Nobody plays a rpg to be like the next guy. What's wrong with that ? If you don't like it, it's ok but don't tell us there is a problem...

We could also cap the life skills because why would someone get more product out of processing the same amount of materials than the next guy, right ? It's totally unfair.

Correction: it's the most basic principle in Asian MMORPGs. As I said previously, I didn't buy this game for it's PvP as I know it's Asian RPG, I bought it for the PvE.

And that life skill metaphor just didn't make sense. It's not like you can process someone to death and grief them that way. All I was saying that as long as there is huge gear differences and little to no skill involved, the karma bombing vs. grief kills problem ain't going nowhere.

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Posted

Maybe they should increase the penalty for being PKed like they should have after the xp loss removal.  The game was initially all about owning grind spots but the carebears killed the community and made it a grief filled free for all with no recourse for the dedicated grinders.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe they should increase the penalty for being PKed like they should have after the xp loss removal.  The game was initially all about owning grind spots but the carebears killed the community and made it a grief filled free for all with no recourse for the dedicated grinders.

So punish someone being one shot against their will (and by someone in stupidly high end gear usually) even more, I suppose you don't want to suffer any karma hits while doing this too?

Edited by Tamuril
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