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Whats karma bombing? and is it bad?

50 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

When someone kills you at a grind spot, and instead of leaving, you stay and grief them, ruining the rotation and causing trouble: This is karma bombing. 
Yes it is bad, but there is no consequences for doing it.
Though if someone killed you 30 times then it was probably a GVG, unless the person just went neg 1mil karma.

i like how the first reply in this thread sums up the problem:

person A: "i was just grinding"

person B: "he was GRIEFING me"

Why do people karma bombing always use the argument that they were in the spot first. In the last month, literally ALL the people who karma bombed me came in the rotation i already was in...

thats funny, literally everytime someone attacked me over a grindspot and lost, they stayed anyway and then started to grief.

 

In my experiance giefers are not high levels in uber gear ... griefers are those small bottom feeders ... running around with 120AP bothering everyone ... and when they hit heir first green awakeing weapon to TRI they go back to let says sausans to test their strenght on some poor struggeling lvl 54s.

the ACTUAL karmagriefers (not noobs who just want to grind and don't realize whats going on) arent undergeared noobs and low lvls, but players who know & try to follow these player-made rules and etiquette's but then get mad if they cant win.

because griefing happens KNOWINGLY and on purpose, not on coincidence.

 

 

Edited by Escapism

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Posted

Doop doop dee do....just running around lvl 49.999% not belonging to a guild. Little Bunny Foo Foo, Hopping through the forest, Scooping up the field mice, And boppin' 'em on the head....

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It's very simple, there is no mention of "karma bombing" in the terms of service, therefore, it is not a thing...the only rules you must follow are the terms of service and you do not need to pay any attention to the spoiled brats who think only they should be able to play the game.

 

You also can not force a person to activate their PVP mode, so if they keep burning their own karma and do not stop...it's really their problem and you just need to ignore them whining about not having everything they want handed to them in the video game.

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Posted (edited)

So let's say I have a bunch of friends who'd help me out look for an individual with the Velia NPC and I would hunt someone 24/7 for let's say a week straight and I'd be fine destroying his whole gaming experience the moment he leaves the safe zone. Screwing up his rotation, kicking him off his horse, chain grabbing him until he ESC escapes. I would not violate any rules. Would that be behavior you'd accept? Or even encourage? I am playing the game the way I want. No one should have the right to tell me I shouldn't do that.

The answer do that is: OFC I should not do that. It's the wrong thing to do. I am hurting someone's game expierience for my own selfish reasons. And there can not be a rule for that. That's why we as a community need to make rules for proper behavior. Such as: If you can not defend your spot, leave it to the person who contests it. There can not be another solution to this. This is the only logical way to approach the situation we have. Too few good spots. People with huge disparity in gear grind the same mobs.

And finally: I am someone who went red karma if needed. I am not grinding anymore as I reached the lvl I wanted. I do life skills for silver now (well and other activities, other than grinding).

Edited by BANiSH

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Posted (edited)

 

 That's why we as a community need to make rules for proper behavior. Such as: If you can not defend your spot, leave it to the person who contests it.

Here is how the world really works, if your gonna be a jerk and not show others common courtesy and not respect the fact that someone else is playing the game, your not going to get respect or courtesy in return...the fact is proper behavior is not stealing someones rotation and your not going to get rewarded for being a jerk. if you try to steal a rotation that someone has been doing and trying to progress, you are hurting someones game experience for your own selfish reasons, and you have said that doing that is wrong...so from the get go, you are in the wrong and you are promoting the response you get...the thing is neither action is against the terms of service and both are allowed...there is an argument both ways and its not black and white.

And I have been on both sides of the table and think its fine te way it is...I went red a couple time fighting over my grind spot against weaker opponents...I 1 v 5'd a bunch of Prodigy members at Sausans who though just cause they were 5 and I was 1, they were entitled to the main rotation even though I, by myself, was clearing it faster and killing them at the same time...I didn't get upset about it, I love to PVP and even though I prefer to fight opponents that are better matched, it was satisfying to 1 v 5 a bunch of people having a temper tantrum in general chat and calling me names cause I wouldn't hand them what they wanted and couldn't earn. I knowingly went red cause it was worth it to hurt the ego's of a bunch of guys that thought they were awesome and could only lash out in chat as they were helpless to do anything else.  

And just the other day, I was farming on an alt at Pirates and there were some BlackRose and LionsGate people in the front rotation, so I went to the back which was open and did that without bothering them, then all of a sudden like an hour into me farming they started taking the middle part of the rotation I was doing along with what they were doing in the front and went on to say they were clearing too fast and so that made them entitled to take the front and the back...which was BS, cause in response I started taking part of their rotation, and in fact the biggest group in their rotation. Now, if they were clearing too fast and need to kill more, I would not have been able to take what they were trying to steal from me and part of their rotation, instead of just doing my rotation and them doing theirs...they were just going out of their way to be jerks and they lost out on what they would have gotten because of it...they attacked me 5 v 1 and killed me a bunch, but I also killed 1 of them and made others run away scared of being killed...had I been on my main at the time, I would have slaughtered them all easy...one of them claimed they were going to report me for not leaving, which is just stupid...they were so spoiled that they thought because I pushed back when they were being jerks, that they could report me for not just backing down.  I mean in the end it workout for me cause I was getting the biggest group of the main rotation and the middle of my rotation and ended up getting past my XP goal for the night, but they though they were just gonna take what they wanted and disrespect anyone else and they would just be entitled to whatever they wanted....it doesn't work that way...if you show disrespect to someone, don't expect to get respect in return...if you try to steal someone's rotation, they are entitled to respond in anyway they see fit as long as it is within the terms of service...you can not make up whatever rules you want that just benefit the people who have more time to play and progress or are an over powered person in a lower level area.

Oh and I just want to add, if your a 5 person group of level 60's and your having trouble with 1 56 ranger with a duo liverto, a tri sword, a duo steel/bronze dagger and a +14 XP farming helm...and your trying to shit talk when the 56 ranger gets a kill and makes multiple members run away a bunch of times...you definitely don't deserve the mobs you are trying to steal.

Edited by SpunkyPunky
wanted to add a line
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Posted

I have no issue with people getting karma bombed mainly because it's self-inflicted.

If you want a rotation you fight for it. Not with PvP, but with clearing. If you can clear better than the other person, than that area is 'yours' since that's how the game's mechanics work. By killing another player, you put yourself in a pretty bad spot since you've not only wasted karma but you've given people a way to retaliate against you by karma bombing you.

My rule of thumb is; if your 'rotation' is too slow or too big for you to keep the mob groups cleared for more than five seconds, than you don't have an excuse to bother other people who pick up your slack. Those who openly ask to party I respect because they're either intelligent enough to know open PK is a waste of time, or they simply want to work together for the benefit of everyone involved. As for the players who roll in and PK me without a word, I always let them know I'll be back.

Karma bombing exists as a method to strike back at the PK players who think they own an area simply because they'll kill you for it. That's not how this game works yet people will never learn that open PK is literally a waste of time and is damaging to the offender than the victim.

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Posted

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with karma bombing.  If someone is trying to steal a grind spot, and get bombed, that's his fault. ;3

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Posted

A karma bomber is a guildless player that runs around interfering with someone's grind spot in order to get them to flag on him/her. In my experience this player doesn't exist and so karma bombing is a non-issue. 

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"Karma bombing" and "Griefing" are made up terms of so-called "Pro PVP guys" that usually have pretty decent gear and think they "own" a spot just by having a little better stats.

They think they are entitled to have the spot on their own, but because nobody cares, they try to make it sound if someone cheats or "griefs" (which is usually very bad behaviour, harassment, against the TOS etc), which is absolutely ridiculous.

The game is open world, a few dozen channels for 100000 players or so, which means people will often be at the same spots. The game mechanic is that you are able to PK someone else and get everything for yourself, at the cost of negative karma.

The "Pro players" just can't handle the ruleset and the mechanics, and turn into little whiney girls because nobody gives a crap about their effective grind rotation or their "unwritten rules" which is just bullshit.

Usually those players only grind on lowlevel newbie spots, trying to be the big badass guy there.

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Posted

Karma bombing is when you see a guy coming to take mobs you are farming on, so you take off your gear so they can easily kill you. Then they believe u are a scrub and go negative, so you put on your gear and destroy him and make him lose 1%.

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Posted (edited)

If u cant defend ur spot by dying a few times 1v1 then u should consider leaving, unless u always flag up. If its war then u could keep comming back as the guy dont lose karma.

Edited by Nacario

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Well, you are wrong, what happened in my case several times was that a party of 4 or 5 decides to moves on my spot, which i have no problem clearing it fast, i got zerged so i griffed them, then came back and start picking them off 1 by one, or the last player that was a bit behind picking up drops, and yes from time to time, i would get caught and got killed, but again, killing their members 1 by 1 and baiting them into chasing me so i could split them up, for that i was called a grieffer, im no big pvp-er or high geared, but in certain situations i cant survive 5v1, the thing is people twist this "grief thing" a lot to suit their needs, what i saw most of times, is high gear players coming to low lvl spots(like sausans, pirates) to bait players into pvp so that they kill them and then call them griefers, then end up leaving the spot anyway

 

anyway, the current pvp in this game is unballanced and shit and its very very rng regarding fps/lagg, cpu hang times, and doesnt reflect the real skill of a player at all, so everyone should stop with all the "im better" bullshit

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Posted (edited)

What happened many times to me is :

 

1.I see a guy grinding a spot I want to grind

OR

2. guy shows up on my spots and starts taking over - ,

 

I pick a fight with him - if he is stronger and kills me a couple of times - I leave him be, Why ? I will waste both my time and his with meaningless bullshit.

if I am stronger I take over the spot. In the second case people react either by trying to karma bomb or they leave after couple of deaths or they group up to kill you with friends or declare and call their guild.

In case they decide to karma bomb I kill them a couple of times and if they keep coming I just keep grinding. Usually if you kill someone easily than you are most likely going to clear way faster than him and eventually he will give up. There might be an impact on the leveling process/GQ speed but if you extend your rotation and pick an extra group or two usually its ok( unless you are really aiming for optimal speed ).

And as an exception there is the sweet spot when you pick a fight with someone thats more or less on your level/gear/skill and you have the joy of probably good pvp. When you get bored you either leave the spot or change channel if the other player is reluctant to do so. I've never had a bad expirience so far following the above. ( note- I am not a hardcore grinder , I am half way to hit lvl 60 but I believe my time spent so far here is enough to get a good idea of the situation)

In case they call their buddies or declare and call guild you are in for a group pvp which is an essential part of the game and usually is much more entertaining than killing pirates/sausans/bandits for 2 hours. 

I've met people that actually hunt me ingame and kill me afk riding between cities, kill me on world bosses, kill me on relics and I think its all part of the game. There is no rule we should be nice to each other as this is a role playing game and everybody has the right to be an asshole chaotic evil character that just wants to murder people. We are not playing together against the NPCs or the world created by the devs, we are mostly playing against each other ( unless someone really believes we should keep killing those pirates till they stop respawning). So as long as there is an incentive for us to kill each other, there should be no code of conduct whatsoever for proper behaviour. Do as you see fit and embrace the concequences of your own actions. 

On a side note there are safe zones, protection, karma and all sorts of other mechanics that help more peacefull players do their thing. Besides you almost never loose anything for being a victim. Its a matter of own choice to have negative expirience when you are in contact with other players.

 

 

Edited by NK

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Posted

well griefing goes both ways, u kill him several times, and he dies(or is being harrased by you) the higher gear is harrasing the lower gear player who in exchange is griefing the high gear player, and thats preety much it

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Posted

What i like to do is get that little shit to 1% hp and then cc till mobs kill him, with some practice it works most of the time, i wonder how many xp crystals i destroyed :D The way i see it is that this is open pvp game for a reason, and if someone is stronger then you he should take over spot even tho you was farming there for 45 hours or you just started playing or w/e reason you think off. That stupid karma system let some awful players to exploit it but like i said at the begining there are some ways around it granted you will loose some time, but they will loose much more in the end its always better for weakling to just move on to other place.

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Posted

Let me put it this way

1. Karmabombing is the only real way for low geared players to defend themselves from PKs.

2. You don't have to kill that guy to farm in the spot because if you're better you can simply outgrind him.

3. Tell me, how are the low geared players able to get better gear if you won't let them in the spot?

 

Since devs won't do anything about it, I think that this is only good way to protect ourselves from toxic players.

Everyone in this game paid for it, so I see no point in claiming spots for the best players.

 

I'm not native english speaker, so please forgive me any mistakes I made.

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Posted

Let me put it this way

1. Karmabombing is the only real way for low geared players to defend themselves from PKs.

2. You don't have to kill that guy to farm in the spot because if you're better you can simply outgrind him.

3. Tell me, how are the low geared players able to get better gear if you won't let them in the spot?

 

Since devs won't do anything about it, I think that this is only good way to protect ourselves from toxic players.

Everyone in this game paid for it, so I see no point in claiming spots for the best players.

 

I'm not native english speaker, so please forgive me any mistakes I made.

Like everyone alse go to weaker spots, git gud and come back to contest the good spots once you ready. You entiltled little brats need to learn your place, the fact that you bought the game does't automatically reserve spots for you.

You want good spots put some effort to you character gear up get some levels, get good in pvp or joing guild that will provide help/grind groups.

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Like everyone alse go to weaker spots, git gud and come back to contest the good spots once you ready. You entiltled little brats need to learn your place, the fact that you bought the game does't automatically reserve spots for you.

You want good spots put some effort to you character gear up get some levels, get good in pvp or joing guild that will provide help/grind groups.

Or maybe it's you little brats who think that you can claim spot for yourself because you spent more time in the game.

IMO those lowgeared players need those spots more than -----s with TET/PEN boss armour who sit there just because they can.

And that's why I'm gonna karmabomb you every time you'll try to kill me.

 

Regards,

Grunil pleb

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Posted

Or maybe it's you little brats who think that you can claim spot for yourself because you spent more time in the game.

IMO those lowgeared players need those spots more than -----s with TET/PEN boss armour who sit there just because they can.

And that's why I'm gonna karmabomb you every time you'll try to kill me.

 

Regards,

Grunil pleb

But that's how everything is, if you work hard to achieve something you deserve it as oppose to some lazy parasites like yourself who think they are intiltled to everything just because they exist. Makes me also wonder why did you even bother to buy open pvp game in first place you pathetic imbecile, next time do some research before buying something it will save you a lot of tears.

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Working hard to achieve something never applies to an MMO and entitlement. So might need to take your, "my RL is terrible but IR good here" mentality and figure out a new strat for life. 

Seriously if think people with careers and lives who play the game are "parasites" compared to a no lifer at his gaming system, you are delusional. Its the exact opposite, hell my taxes are probably feeding you right now.... sadly.

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You are correct. I'm not talking about the dickhead that just decides to push into someone else's current rotation. I see this is just as bad as the bully who kills and attempts to take over someone's spot they are currently grinding.

So maybe we need two labels?  The first for someone standing up to a PK bully and the bully losing out. The other is as you describe a non PKing bully?

 

A PK is a PK. Now if someone dies because they were trying to take a spot from someone else and kept coming back again and again and again and again and again that is karmabombing and vice versa.

What I have personally run into the most, though, is I will be on a spot and a person(s) will cut into the rotation I've been on for an hour or more and I will give them 2 warnings. Just a simple "Spot taken" cuz thats all I care to get out while I'm grinding. If they ignore both warnings that is when I flag and kill. If they whine to me in a whisper that is when I will give a slightly more detailed "I've been here for over an hour" or whatever actual length of time I've been there, and if they continue to come back and try to take the spot and I keep killing them that is again karmabombing. Usually I don't want to group on rotations like at sausans cuz its either cutting into exp gain at lower levels, especially with how fast it can get cleared just solo now, or I'm there for the money and special deals is kinda meh to me if someone is taking turn ins I could be stacking more and more of if someone else's pets weren't there.

PvP to take a spot isn't the issue, you get killed on a spot, you come back maybe once or twice to see if you can take it back okay fine. But it is the repeated attempts and failures or intentionally trying to die or mess up someone's rotation to provoke a flag up is the problem. Why would you look at PKing as "being a bully" or them being a "PKing bully" when PvP is just a part of the game, you get killed off the spot, especially if it happens easily well that sucks but when you're going out and grinding you're taking that risk just as everyone else does.

 

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Posted

Working hard to achieve something never applies to an MMO and entitlement. So might need to take your, "my RL is terrible but IR good here" mentality and figure out a new strat for life. 

Seriously if think people with careers and lives who play the game are "parasites" compared to a no lifer at his gaming system, you are delusional. Its the exact opposite, hell my taxes are probably feeding you right now.... sadly.

Another cretin who thinks everyone whos geared must be jobless nolife, thinking that makes you feel less worthless even tho its just not not truth eh?  :D The fact that you invalides cant manage to get geared and have a rl doesn't meen that everyone alse cant do it either.

And every competitive mmo game requeiers work if you want to stay relevent, but you clearly rather shit your idiotic assumptions on forums since you cant do anything in game but karma bomb other people you pathetic lil shite.

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It actually has to do with your lack of grammar, basic sentence structure or overall ability to communicate that makes me believe you are... Well let's say less than average intellect and in a low-pay/status position in life. 

Gamers are hardly no-lifers.... Im here in Silicon Valley California and we all game. However we game well and we don't cry when people use mechanics in a system. We leave that to the less adept. IE - You.

 

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Posted (edited)

Like everyone alse go to weaker spots, git gud and come back to contest the good spots once you ready. You entiltled little brats need to learn your place, the fact that you bought the game does't automatically reserve spots for you.

You want good spots put some effort to you character gear up get some levels, get good in pvp or joing guild that will provide help/grind groups.

The problem with that is, level 59s,60s like to squat in low level areas due to the supposed high silver/xp gain so until they move off then the appropriate level players for that area will always be behind the eight ball due to the fact that they can't access good areas to progress from and instead get shunted to less appealing area's. Ergo, less xp, slower growth and less silver/drops equals slower gear progression but that's their problem just as you dealing with 'karmabombing' is yours.

The fact that they bought the game definitely doesn't reserve spots for them but neither does your purchase of the game grant you or anyone else, indefinite camping rights to anywhere ingame. If you can hold it, you hold it, if not...there's always other channels to visit and that cuts both ways.

As long as players abide by the ToS, they can utilise any mechanic within the game they wish, be it repeatedly tearing up because a player is attempting to push them from the spot they were farming or the player doing the pushing and there's not a damn thing you can do about it other than to make a choice to follow through or cut and run.

As for 'entitled little brats' look up the word hypocrisy.

I've played almost daily since Beta and have encountered persistent returning players and/or Ks'ers maybe 5 or 6 times but since I moved to Valencia when it opened, the only time I encountered it was during a guild quest in Mediah so I doubt the issue is as prevalent as players make it out to be and I highly doubt Kakao will change the system anytime soon  because whether you like to admit it or not, PvP'ers are the minority in this OWPVP game.

Edited by NightFyre
Clarification

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Posted

The problem with that is, level 59s,60s like to squat in low level areas due to the supposed high silver/xp gain so until they move off then the appropriate level players for that area will always be behind the eight ball due to the fact that they can't access good areas to progress from and instead get shunted to less appealing area's. Ergo, less xp, slower growth and less silver/drops equals slower gear progression but that's their problem just as you dealing with 'karmabombing' is yours.

The fact that they bought the game definitely doesn't reserve spots for them but neither does your purchase of the game grant you or anyone else, indefinite camping rights to anywhere ingame. If you can hold it, you hold it, if not...there's always other channels to visit and that cuts both ways.

As long as players abide by the ToS, they can utilise any mechanic within the game they wish, be it repeatedly tearing up because a player is attempting to push them from the spot they were farming or the player doing the pushing and there's not a damn thing you can do about it other than to make a choice to follow through or cut and run.

As for 'entitled little brats' look up the word hypocrisy.

I've played almost daily since Beta and have encountered persistent returning players and/or Ks'ers maybe 5 or 6 times but since I moved to Valencia when it opened, the only time I encountered it was during a guild quest in Mediah so I doubt the issue is as prevalent as players make it out to be and I highly doubt Kakao will change the system anytime soon  because whether you like to admit it or not, PvP'ers are the minority in this OWPVP game.

There are ways to deal with it like joining the guild, making some friends who can help you or even talking with guy who tries to take over spot like in any proper sandbox mmo, but no they choose to abuse broken game mechanic and hide behind tos like pathetic little rats they are. If anything karma bombing makes people grief even more, i for one enjoy a lot killing these kind of people but not so i loose karma and they loose nothing, no simply bring them down to low hp and let mobs do the rest.

You commies need to learn that this game was never meant to be level playground where everyone is suppose to be equal and have same rights to best spots, no matter if they started playing game or they playing it for a year or they good at game or bad. Kakako made serious mistake by removing xp loss on death, but still they are ways around, even more painful that that 1%. And like i said before that change made people grief each other even more both ways.

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