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BDO Datamined DP stats - Just show us AP, DP, Evasion and ACC on char sheet

202 posts in this topic

Posted

A GM said that. I verified yesterday that the mentioned stats are still the same in current client data files. Please continue discussing ;)

I adore how you say this in the same thread pointing out that Kakao can't just come out and say that some stats are serverside, and that datamining therefore isn't accurate.

Please, read the first post again. Draw some conclusions based on your read. THEN post.

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Posted

What does that "like" even mean is a fair question.  What that specific "like" means is, I asked CM Aethon to reply back to the thread explaining that client side data is only a portion of the equation which in turn can be misleading or even outdated.  When someone digs through the client files they are bound to see all kinds of information, files, images etc, the issue with this process is the sheer one sided nature.  I can say I admire the tenacity shown for this discussion, and I am sure it will be interesting to see what other discoveries are made.  That being said we do not have any additional insight to offer you in reference to the game's statistical calculations, instead you are urged to take anything you read from non-official sources with a grain of salt.

Now that that is out of the way, I have to agree I am not as active on the forums as I once was, although I still read them daily.  As always it is a pleasure to see such lively discussions, the forums are still without a doubt the most contested grinding spot.

 this is the internet. We see a Like and we immediately assume you have the hots for Atheon

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Posted

instead you are urged to take anything you read from non-official sources with a grain of salt.

Well we don't get the info from official sources so what do you suggest we do? This is a direct result of hidden stats. You will not see a reduction in speculation until we get the correct information.

Just release the stats so people can make an informed choice both in terms of gear investment and cash shop investment.

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Posted

 

It's not good gameplay, stop defending it.

i like it. so i will defend it, right? i dont want every pleb to have the same exact item build. it's good that people try to find out new build or what ever. if there was just ONE solution and one formula that tells us we need exactly amount of X of any stats.. people would all build the exact same sht. all other armors, weapons would be useless.

why dont u just play any other game of this game's system is so terrible?

 

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Posted

if there was just ONE solution and one formula that tells us we need exactly amount of X of any stats.. people would all build the exact same sht. all other armors, weapons would be useless.

1 point for you

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Posted

i like it. so i will defend it, right? i dont want every pleb to have the same exact item build. it's good that people try to find out new build or what ever. if there was just ONE solution and one formula that tells us we need exactly amount of X of any stats.. people would all build the exact same sht. all other armors, weapons would be useless.

why dont u just play any other game of this game's system is so terrible?

 

So what? People want to optimise their toon's stats. What is wrong with that? It is important for competative people to know what they are doing.

It is (nearly) impossible to get perfect stats anyway, due to the massive RNG-wall in this game.
Other MMORPGs have no hidden stats and no massive progression wall. Does that destroy the game? No!

Not everyone will have the exact same build, due to top notch gear not being available to everyone.
And so what if 5% of the population (at best) has the same gear.
OMG, IT WILL DESTROY THE GAME!

Funny to call competative people plebs, when they are the only ones that have a valid reason to want to know their stats.
While the only thing you can say is: "This will make players more unique. Blah blah blah".
You sound like a life-skiller to me. Someone who does not care about stats and has nothing useful to add to a topic like this.
If you want to be unique, buy a shark suit, dye it green and run around Heidel being a special snowflake.
As soon as you see someone else in a green shark suit, uninstall the game.

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Posted

 i dont want every pleb to have the same exact item build.

Fact people go same build come from broken game balance where one or 2 stats are OP - AP in this game.

Right now it is ever impossible to think about build if things completly different and not connected like damage reduction and evasion are under single stat.

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Posted (edited)

So what? People want to optimise their toon's stats. What is wrong with that? It is important for competative people to know what they are doing.

It is (nearly) impossible to get perfect stats anyway, due to the massive RNG-wall in this game.
Other MMORPGs have no hidden stats and no massive progression wall. Does that destroy the game? No!

Not everyone will have the exact same build, due to top notch gear not being available to everyone.
And so what if 5% of the population (at best) has the same gear.
OMG, IT WILL DESTROY THE GAME!

Funny to call competative people plebs, when they are the only ones that have a valid reason to want to know their stats.
While the only thing you can say is: "This will make players more unique. Blah blah blah".
You sound like a life-skiller to me. Someone who does not care about stats and has nothing useful to add to a topic like this.
If you want to be unique, buy a shark suit, dye it green and run around Heidel being a special snowflake.
As soon as you see someone else in a green shark suit, uninstall the game.

It's because the game is too much focus on gear progression that it would be completely absurd to have transparency over the stats.

That's the only competitive aspect of the game : gear. They chose that instead of skill at the contrary to other mmo where competitive pvp is instanced and gear stats more or less standardized.

Now if you make the stat progression obvious, the first dude who like to do some math will release a guide to optimize yourself and everyone is going to look for the same set given their class.

Personnaly i wouldn't care since i always considered gearing progression as out of competitiv aspect and just usefull to give one more endgame activity to very hardcore pve players. (they can kill the very last dungeon boss 1,3x faster ! woohoo !) And so, i don't play BDo in a competitive aspect.

But if it becomes real, gearing will become extremely boring, and i don't even talk about all the items that would stop being sold at the market.

 

 

Edited by Xaoyu

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Posted

I adore how you say this in the same thread pointing out that Kakao can't just come out and say that some stats are serverside, and that datamining therefore isn't accurate.

Please, read the first post again. Draw some conclusions based on your read. THEN post.

I don't need to read anything copied from KR forums, I do my own tests, and draw my own conclusions being a programmer myself, what's likely and what not.

You might find it interesting that there are some different values and tables for KR, JP, RUS etc in the datasheets, even different "ClassBalance" and "ClassBalance_KR" tables. So much to your KR forum fanboy stuff, keep copying your google translated stuff, I don't care :)

It's because the game is to much focus on gear progression that it would be completely absurd to have transparency over the stats.

That's nonsense, damage reduction and evasion are two completely different mechanics. E.g. a DP item won't reduce any damage at all when it's full evasion and the enemy hits you (some skills seem to always hit). While other DP items indeed always reduce the damage.

So much to the "DP builds" that are actually hybrid builds, and really depend on the used items.

I wonder why bddatabase doesn't show those values.

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Posted

i like it. so i will defend it, right? i dont want every pleb to have the same exact item build. it's good that people try to find out new build or what ever. if there was just ONE solution and one formula that tells us we need exactly amount of X of any stats.. people would all build the exact same sht. all other armors, weapons would be useless.

why dont u just play any other game of this game's system is so terrible?

 

But cookie cutter builds are already a thing, the stats being hidden change absolutely nothing on the matter.

I don't need to read anything copied from KR forums, I do my own tests, and draw my own conclusions being a programmer myself, what's likely and what not.

You might find it interesting that there are some different values and tables for KR, JP, RUS etc in the datasheets, even different "ClassBalance" and "ClassBalance_KR" tables. So much to your KR forum fanboy stuff, keep copying your google translated stuff, I don't care :)

The flying ----- did you just say?

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Posted (edited)

Ok hold up. Hold the phone for a second here. You can't just post some enigmatic stuff like this on the forum and then lock the thread. Do you realize how much time and money people are dumping from their lives to properly itemize in this game? It's one thing to withhold information, it's another thing to arbitrarily mislead or throw out incomplete information and send them on wild goose chases causing them to potentially waste money on something that directly profits you. Let's be clear, BECAUSE YOU POSTED THIS PEOPLE WILL THINK THAT CHART IS WRONG. And if it is wrong, tell us how and why it's wrong. And tell us where it's right. 

Or are you saying this data is completely outdated and no longer correct? If so, care to provide some real data? 

Where do you draw the line between fun, mysterious exploration of game mechanics and straight up misleading people resulting in your own gain?



before someone chimes in "oh well they don't have to spend money". Irrelevant. THEY ARE GOING TO SPEND MONEY. The reality of the situation this misdirection WILL result in Daum getting more cash. And that's inappropriate. 

 

I actually approve of the vague confusion caused by the CM post in this one. This will continue to allow the entire population to have strong healthy debates with zero confirmed facts. This will work to ensure forum fodder for at least the entire second year. It is extremely similar to this post...also full of affirmations of ambiguity. 

Greetings All,

First off we'd like to thank everyone involved in the detailed testing, well written posts, and of course sharing your data. We've looked into the concerns expressed here, in addition to speaking directly with the developers regarding the effect of node levels, in which they have confirmed the mechanic is working correctly.

 

Edited by Trixologist

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Posted (edited)

My my my.... So much rage. Such wow. Many amaze. 

No but seriously, I think everyone should take a deep breath and relax. As far as I can understand @CM_Aethon simply answered after @PM_Jouska asked her to (iirc Aethon is female? could be wrong <.<). The answer was basically: "The data is old. It could have changed. We do not know." (remember what Jouska said about not having any additional information? That's basically Kakao's way of saying "we do not have any more information than you guys, so we don't know either")

No need to start a long thing over something like that :c 

 

Also, @Jeynar, they didn't say it changes. They said it's outdated BUT only "most likely no longer correct" (this would indicate that not ALL things/stats have changed, only a majority) and (to quote jouska) "which in turn can be misleading or even outdated.". "Can be" in the way Jouska put it would indicate "we don't know" I believe. Feel free to correct me if you want :P.

Edited by aidlac
Oh fudge ._. have I started to defend Kakao? ._. Well there's a first for everything I guess.

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Posted

Also, @Jeynar, they didn't say it changes. They said it's outdated BUT only "most likely no longer correct" (this would indicate that not ALL things/stats have changed, only a majority) and (to quote jouska) "which in turn can be misleading or even outdated.". "Can be" in the way Jouska put it would indicate "we don't know" I believe. Feel free to correct me if you want :P.

It's completely irrelevant to the underlying issue.

That hidden stats shouldn't be a thing.

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Posted

It's completely irrelevant to the underlying issue.

That hidden stats shouldn't be a thing.

Yeah Ik :/ But I feel it's wrong to blame the publisher when it's the dev withholding the information >.< get what I mean? :/ (although I do think the publisher should be able to ask the dev for said stats).

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Posted

Yeah Ik :/ But I feel it's wrong to blame the publisher when it's the dev withholding the information >.< get what I mean? :/ (although I do think the publisher should be able to ask the dev for said stats).

You might even say it's.. their job.

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Posted (edited)

You might even say it's.. their job.

Part of it. Not the only part though :P. Also, can't do much if the dev's are being -----y, can ya? It's like when you went to school. The teachers were the ones in control of each class but if the principal told them to not do something they didn't have much say in it :D (ok, I am terrible at comparisons, ok? <.< It was the only one I could think of at the top of my head).

Also, that should be the PM's job, not the supports, gm's job (not sure about cm's <.< I'd imagine those might have to be able to talk with the devs about what the community want? But guessing that falls on the PM's as well). Just to make sure we're not including ALL of Kakao in something only affecting certain roles within the company I mean :)

Edited by aidlac

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Posted (edited)

So what? People want to optimise their toon's stats. What is wrong with that? It is important for competative people to know what they are doing.

 

people like u dont understand that it's not posisble to have optimized gear. on a macro view gear is always changing.

if common sense is that all rush pure AP.. then ppl will start evasion.. oh wait: next step will be an accuracy-meta.. followed by pure AP.

--> this is what will happen, too, if u had full knowledge about the math. at least u could BabyRage about to expensive gear progression instead of the lack of information..since u needed multiple gear sets.

 

Edited by MozezCore

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Posted

people like u dont understand that it's not posisble to have optimized gear. on a macro view gear is always changing.

if common sense is that all rush pure AP.. then ppl will start evasion.. oh wait: next step will be an accuracy-meta.. followed by pure AP.

--> this is what will happen, too, if u had full knowledge about the math. at least u could BabyRage about to expensive gear progression instead of the lack of information..since u needed multiple gear sets.

 

This is already happening, it's just only available for a select few and they're generally uninformed decisions to make it so.

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Posted

yes. this is already happening.

this is also the reason why you dont have any advantage of knowing the math.

u can switch your full AP gear in a fight if u notice ur opponend has some evasion.

next point to cry? "i want switch gear in fight"

 

holy... boys, this is a fck game.. u're overdoing it. you all should have taken a walk outside and breathing some fresh are to reset brain while maintanance.. :ph34r:

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Posted (edited)

nice tinfoil hat "they will change EVERYTHING in a little hotfix"

They won't change EVERYTHING with a single hotfix, but they can change ANYTHING with a single hotfix, which over time adds up to many changes. And since they won't ever tell us what they changed, he's not wrong that testing becomes almost pointless, and I say that as someone who has been and still is testing a bunch of items to find their values of species damage and the positioning/effectiveness of varying types of AP. For all I know they'll change which items have "universal" AP and how effective species damage is for awakenings next patch and everything I've ever done will be meaningless. That's a big part of why I haven't posted anything new lately, because it's incredibly discouraging.

And before you ask, "Well, why assume they'll make those drastic changes at all?" The answer is because they've already done so, multiple times. There was the huge Acc/Eva re-balancing that was mentioned nowhere in any patch notes (around the time awakenings first came out), shuffling Acc around more towards mainhands and buffing Eva on various items at the same time (presumably because they had previously nerfed Eva too much in reaction to Ninjas who stacked Eva being unkillable gods when they first came out in KR, but at least that was advertised). Then there was also the Tamer awakening patch where they reduced the effectiveness of awakening AP but added a percentage of mainhand AP to awakening damage, and the only mention it got was "awakening damage is affected by awakening weapon and mainhand weapon."

So, yeah, test results need to at least be checked with every patch to see if they have been changed, and with how many stats on how many items there are which are important to know the details of and how few people there are willing to do any testing, it's an exercise in futility. @CM_Serenity even encouraged me to keep on testing things, but I dunno how much longer I'll have the desire to do so considering all that. At least now we have trustworthy DR:Eva ratios, if nothing else.

Edited by Zephan
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Posted

holy... boys, this is a fck game.. u're overdoing it. you all should have taken a walk outside and breathing some fresh are to reset brain while maintanance.. :ph34r:

Strawman.

Personally, I'd love it if I could tell a newbie to get a Kzarka cause *insert facts here*, whereas right now I have to tell him "its cause of hidden stats that its better than liverto, you'll have to trust me on this".

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Posted

mmm this thread got pretty spicy 

delicious 

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Posted

As others have pointed out, showing the stats would be very helpful if not necessary. Black Desert revolves around gear. Without it you are nothing. In a game where gear dependcy is so extreme and RNG is so high, showing stats are crucial- especially in the competitive and PvP side of the game. I do not understand why the developers hide these important character stats. It doesn't do anything but limit and annoy their community. I know the developers like to treat Black Desert like a simulator and take a more realistic approach to things within the game, so maybe they can have it so when you speak to the Black Spirit (,) you can request the spirit to give you information about all your character stats and attributes. A bit more realistic, since it's a magical spirit telling you how strong you are, and allows us to view our stats. Good for both sides. :) 

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Posted

I do not understand why the developers hide these important character stats

It's a design decision. No damage numbers, no details down to the last internal stat, etc. What's so hard to understand?

When your car in GTA doesn't show exact torque, wheel pressure and what not, you also don't understand that?

When you order a meal in a restaurant and they don't tell you the exact recipe, is it also completely beyond your understanding, how they can possibly hide the important recipe ingredients?

Maybe they just don't like the min/maxing that results in a clone army. Or they just have a good laugh at the BDO forum people's crazy tinfoil hat theories and that's why they hide stuff :)

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Posted (edited)

It's a design decision. No damage numbers, no details down to the last internal stat, etc. What's so hard to understand?

When your car in GTA doesn't show exact torque, wheel pressure and what not, you also don't understand that?

When you order a meal in a restaurant and they don't tell you the exact recipe, is it also completely beyond your understanding, how they can possibly hide the important recipe ingredients?

Maybe they just don't like the min/maxing that results in a clone army. Or they just have a good laugh at the BDO forum people's crazy tinfoil hat theories and that's why they hide stuff :)

Although, that is only acceptable in real life where you are not competing. If you are in competitive racing, you will known information about every single part of your vehicle, and even where it came from. If you are making a meal to serve at a resturaunt, the cooks know the recipe and measurements completely.  They are the ones competing, they have to know. We are competiting in the game, so we should know as well. It's an innappropriate system which doesn't suit a gear and stat dependant game, with a very large competitive PvP scene. It's not that I don't understand a reason for it in other games, but there is no reason for it in this game- which ever reason there is has more negataive effects than positive- which makes it a flawed design. 

Edited by Junyoung
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