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Is the Dark Night A limited time Class?

25 posts in this topic

Posted

The reason why I'm asking is because someone was saying that its a limited time class but i want to just confirm 

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Posted

Yes. You can play only 24 hours per day.

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Posted

Don't worry, dark knights are permanent classes.

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Posted

Yes. You can play only 24 hours per day.

oh you :>

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Posted

The reason why I'm asking is because someone was saying that its a limited time class but i want to just confirm 

Don't believe the rumor mill crap that most people say.

"Red Nose Armor is going to get a buff in KR"
"Bheg's Gloves got/are going to get their accuracy nerfed"

All bullshit. If a friend of yours said this to you go back to them and tell them they are an idiot. Good on you to check on it rather than spread the derp. Which another thing to note, if you want to see things that KR is getting in their patches in the past several months which means things we will be getting in the coming months, just search for Chopper_85 on the Black Desert reddit. They translate and post all KR patch notes.

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Posted

If it were a limited-time class, that'd be next level retardation. I mean no offense, but the question itself is silly.

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Posted

"Bheg's Gloves got/are going to get their accuracy nerfed"

But they did. :|

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Posted

But they did. :|

Show me where it says that in any patch note and I'll be happy to agree with you.

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Posted

Show me where it says that in any patch note and I'll be happy to agree with you.

Oh my sweet summer child...

You just keep on believing that they include all details of all changes in the patch notes. Don't let this wicked world break your spirit!

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Posted

Oh my sweet summer child...

You just keep on believing that they include all details of all changes in the patch notes. Don't let this wicked world break your spirit!

I mean if you can show proof of differences between bhegs pre-patch and then post-patch, of whichever patch did it, then show me. Man they include accuracy buffs/nerfs to skills in patch notes, why wouldn't they do so if they did that to Bhegs?

Oh right, sorry. Conspiracy. Got it. Don't want to tread on your delusions.

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Posted

I mean if you can show proof of differences between bhegs pre-patch and then post-patch, of whichever patch did it, then show me. Man they include accuracy buffs/nerfs to skills in patch notes, why wouldn't they do so if they did that to Bhegs?

Oh right, sorry. Conspiracy. Got it. Don't want to tread on your delusions.

I'm not going to trawl through year-old KR posts on various websites (though Inven should probably have it) trying to find old accuracy tests to prove to a random contrarian that the nerf happened. It's 10 Acc now at +15, while it used to be equivalent to an Acc off-hand. I can't tell you the exact patch that it happened, because, surprise surprise, they didn't include it in the notes, but it was roughly around the time that Warrior's awakening was introduced.

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Posted

Yes. You can play only 24 hours per day.

You made my day! Thanks xD

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Posted

I'm not going to trawl through year-old KR posts on various websites (though Inven should probably have it) trying to find old accuracy tests to prove to a random contrarian that the nerf happened. It's 10 Acc now at +15, while it used to be equivalent to an Acc off-hand. I can't tell you the exact patch that it happened, because, surprise surprise, they didn't include it in the notes, but it was roughly around the time that Warrior's awakening was introduced.

So you're talking about something that happened literally months and months ago that has no bearing on the rumors of a "bheg nerf coming" or a "bheg nerf that happened recently"? Thats what I'm talking about, not whatever balance pass over Bhegs that we've had basically since boss gear was introduced on NA/EU since it was already on KR. Also since when did anyone actually know how much Accuracy bhegs gave before the datamined info came out? People speculated but I don't recall anyone having any concrete information on that.

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Posted

So you're talking about something that happened literally months and months ago that has no bearing on the rumors of a "bheg nerf coming" or a "bheg nerf that happened recently"? Thats what I'm talking about, not whatever balance pass over Bhegs that we've had basically since boss gear was introduced on NA/EU since it was already on KR. Also since when did anyone actually know how much Accuracy bhegs gave before the datamined info came out? People speculated but I don't recall anyone having any concrete information on that.

All you said was "Bheg's Gloves got/are going to get their accuracy nerfed", you never specified a timeframe. I also have no idea what datamined info you're referring to, because Accuracy isn't in the client files, it's server-sided... So it's not in the most recent release of datamined client files (which were always available if you knew how to convert .bexcel files, only just now publicly released).

The values for Bheg's were found just like anything else, through thorough testing. Fluffydough is the one that found it had only 10 Acc like 5 months ago, while it was a combination of RU and KR players who did a ton of testing to find an accuracy table for different enchants for all the various accuracy items like a year ago and it included Bheg's (but like I said I'm not going to try and find that).

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Posted

All you said was "Bheg's Gloves got/are going to get their accuracy nerfed", you never specified a timeframe. I also have no idea what datamined info you're referring to, because Accuracy isn't in the client files, it's server-sided... So it's not in the most recent release of datamined client files (which were always available if you knew how to convert .bexcel files, only just now publicly released).

The values for Bheg's were found just like anything else, through thorough testing. Fluffydough is the one that found it had only 10 Acc like 5 months ago, while it was a combination of RU and KR players who did a ton of testing to find an accuracy table for different enchants for all the various accuracy items like a year ago and it included Bheg's (but like I said I'm not going to try and find that).

So then its always been 10 accuracy and has never had more as far as we know?

Thats what you just told me there.

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Posted

So then its always been 10 accuracy and has never had more as far as we know?

Thats what you just told me there.

You can choose to ignore the testing that RU and KR players did if you like, but it still holds true for offhands so they weren't wrong.

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Posted

You can choose to ignore the testing that RU and KR players did if you like, but it still holds true for offhands so they weren't wrong.

I'm not ignoring the testing, but all you told me was that they tested it and it apparently gives "10 accuracy".

How much did it apparently have before this testing? How does one get "10 accuracy" from doing this testing when we don't actually know how much accuracy might actually confer a 100% hit chance? We don't even know the hit chance on 1 accuracy. Testing can give us ballpark estimates, it can help us understand effectiveness but it won't give us the actual pinpoint statistics.

All that they have is conjecture and I'm not refuting the testing being done, it helps us get an idea of how much these items may or may not help, but to say that they can figure out the flat accuracy that the item gives when it doesn't say it, when we didn't know what it was previously (if there even was some "stealth nerf"), and when we don't actually know the hit chance values on even 1 point of accuracy just makes it look very silly when someone goes "it has 10 accuracy". All they have is a hypothesis and until there is more information given, as in specifics, then they can't actually figure out the truth of it.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not ignoring the testing, but all you told me was that they tested it and it apparently gives "10 accuracy".

How much did it apparently have before this testing? How does one get "10 accuracy" from doing this testing when we don't actually know how much accuracy might actually confer a 100% hit chance? We don't even know the hit chance on 1 accuracy. Testing can give us ballpark estimates, it can help us understand effectiveness but it won't give us the actual pinpoint statistics.

All that they have is conjecture and I'm not refuting the testing being done, it helps us get an idea of how much these items may or may not help, but to say that they can figure out the flat accuracy that the item gives when it doesn't say it, when we didn't know what it was previously (if there even was some "stealth nerf"), and when we don't actually know the hit chance values on even 1 point of accuracy just makes it look very silly when someone goes "it has 10 accuracy". All they have is a hypothesis and until there is more information given, as in specifics, then they can't actually figure out the truth of it.

Well, that's a very reasonable outlook, except for the fact that we do know how much 1 point of Accuracy affects hit rates. Even if we didn't, we could still compare the hit-rate gains of whatever we're testing to the hit-rate gains on items that specifically state their accuracy. Since you think that we don't know these simple things, I'm 99.(like millions of 9s)% sure that you never read any testing on the matter, so I'm going to stop replying now. If you want to start, I linked you one a couple posts back.

Edited by Zephan

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Posted

Well, that's a very reasonable outlook, except for the fact that we do know how much 1 point of Accuracy affects hit rates. Even if we didn't, we could still compare the hit-rate gains of whatever we're testing to the hit-rate gains on items that specifically state their accuracy. Since you think that we don't know these simple things, I'm 99.(like millions of 9s)% sure that you never read any testing on the matter, so I'm going to stop replying now. If you want to start, I linked you one a couple posts back.

No we don't. Unless PA has actually told us how much 1 accuracy affects hit rates then it is still conjecture, still a hypothesis. I'm completely aware of the testing that has been done but until that is confirmed or denied by PA itself then its just theory. Fluffy even said in the document itself.

d8Ezc62.png

So I get it, there has been testing done and everything and there are very large sample sizes that have been used but the person you're quoting as having done the testing said in that very document that they are estimates and to get more exact and correct numbers that the sample size needs to be increased dramatically. Literally right there.

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Posted

No we don't. Unless PA has actually told us how much 1 accuracy affects hit rates then it is still conjecture, still a hypothesis. I'm completely aware of the testing that has been done but until that is confirmed or denied by PA itself then its just theory. Fluffy even said in the document itself.

d8Ezc62.png

So I get it, there has been testing done and everything and there are very large sample sizes that have been used but the person you're quoting as having done the testing said in that very document that they are estimates and to get more exact and correct numbers that the sample size needs to be increased dramatically. Literally right there.

Conjecture / hypothesis are not the same thing as a theory, trying to brush off the testing people (not just Fluffy) have done as random speculation is bullshit.

That said, yes, to get 100%-guaranteed numbers for a test it would have to be either developer confirmation or sample sizes in impossible amounts, but we don't need 100% on any one particular test because the results from different tests compound upon themselves, painting a broader picture than the individual results by confirming or disproving the implications of other tests. When you have 95% confidence in 10 different tests and they all fit the same model, that's plenty good enough to draw conclusions.

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Posted

Conjecture / hypothesis are not the same thing as a theory, trying to brush off the testing people (not just Fluffy) have done as random speculation is bullshit.

That said, yes, to get 100%-guaranteed numbers for a test it would have to be either developer confirmation or sample sizes in impossible amounts, but we don't need 100% on any one particular test because the results from different tests compound upon themselves, painting a broader picture than the individual results by confirming or disproving the implications of other tests. When you have 95% confidence in 10 different tests and they all fit the same model, that's plenty good enough to draw conclusions.

No you're right it isn't speculation, but I have been saying that they are doing testing and getting a better understanding and better estimates but we still don't know the exacts. Also yes you can draw conclusions but my point still stands that these testers themselves said that they are estimates and not exact. I'm agreeing with you, I'm just not looking at it as law because of those circumstances.

However this whole discussion isn't what was initially being discussed. I questioned you if that "10 accuracy" from Bhegs had ever been proven to be higher at any point in time prior to the testing that was done that brought up that number. Did someone ever estimate it to be 15 at one point with actual, equal, testing being done to back that up? My point was to never discredit testing being done. What my point was is that as far as we know, and based on your response, the accuracy bonus from bhegs was always 10 so where did this assumed nerf come from?

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Posted

The reason why I'm asking is because someone was saying that its a limited time class but i want to just confirm 

No, you can play/create a Dark Knight at any time.

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Posted

No you're right it isn't speculation, but I have been saying that they are doing testing and getting a better understanding and better estimates but we still don't know the exacts. Also yes you can draw conclusions but my point still stands that these testers themselves said that they are estimates and not exact. I'm agreeing with you, I'm just not looking at it as law because of those circumstances.

However this whole discussion isn't what was initially being discussed. I questioned you if that "10 accuracy" from Bhegs had ever been proven to be higher at any point in time prior to the testing that was done that brought up that number. Did someone ever estimate it to be 15 at one point with actual, equal, testing being done to back that up? My point was to never discredit testing being done. What my point was is that as far as we know, and based on your response, the accuracy bonus from bhegs was always 10 so where did this assumed nerf come from?

I completely agree that it's not law, everything in the game is open to the possibility of being interpreted more correctly since it's all hidden and we don't have a working damage formula. But the "+1 Acc = +1% hit-rate" theory is one of the most-supported theories we have, so while it isn't an incontrovertible law, I still think it's appropriate to say that we know it, until such time we find a better way to interpret the results we see.

But as for your second paragraph, I don't quite understand what you're saying. I said that the year-old RU and KR testing compilation showed that it had the same Acc as the Acc offhands, which they determined to provide 17/19 (non-Ultimate/Ultimate) Acc and has been consistently upheld in every test I've seen since. What I said was that Fluffy found it had 10 Acc 5 months ago, after the nerf that came somewhere around the time of awakenings being introduced. Before that, the RU/KR testing that showed it was equal to an Acc offhand is what we had.

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Posted

I completely agree that it's not law, everything in the game is open to the possibility of being interpreted more correctly since it's all hidden and we don't have a working damage formula. But the "+1 Acc = +1% hit-rate" theory is one of the most-supported theories we have, so while it isn't an incontrovertible law, I still think it's appropriate to say that we know it, until such time we find a better way to interpret the results we see.

But as for your second paragraph, I don't quite understand what you're saying. I said that the year-old RU and KR testing compilation showed that it had the same Acc as the Acc offhands, which they determined to provide 17/19 (non-Ultimate/Ultimate) Acc and has been consistently upheld in every test I've seen since. What I said was that Fluffy found it had 10 Acc 5 months ago, after the nerf that came somewhere around the time of awakenings being introduced. Before that, the RU/KR testing that showed it was equal to an Acc offhand is what we had.

What nerf? That is what I'm asking about. What information did we have about bhegs before the time around awakenings releasing that implied that they had more than the amount of accuracy Fluffy estimated that they had in their testing? That is what I was trying to get out of you.

What information, if any, did we have that suggested that Bhegs had more than that 10 accuracy Fluffy estimated in their testing 5 months ago?

I'll even ask it again. When, if ever, did available information suggest that Bhegs had more than an estimated 10 accuracy?

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Posted

What nerf? That is what I'm asking about. What information did we have about bhegs before the time around awakenings releasing that implied that they had more than the amount of accuracy Fluffy estimated that they had in their testing? That is what I was trying to get out of you.

What information, if any, did we have that suggested that Bhegs had more than that 10 accuracy Fluffy estimated in their testing 5 months ago?

I'll even ask it again. When, if ever, did available information suggest that Bhegs had more than an estimated 10 accuracy?

But I've answered this like 5 times already. I legitimately have no idea why you're still asking this question, what you don't understand or don't agree with about what I've told you.

Like I've been saying in every post, RU and KR players worked to test the Acc of various items, well before awakenings came out in KR. They found that Acc offhands had 17/19 Acc and that Bheg's was the same, among other things. We know that Acc offhands have (at least roughly) 17/19, so that suggests they were correct. Around when awakenings were released in KR people noticed differences in hit-rate, but to my knowledge nobody did any trustworthy tests to find new values, until Fluffy did and found that Bheg's was now ~10 Acc and mainhands had much-increased Acc. (do note that when I say that, I mean tests after the awakening release in any version; hihey and others did do valuable testing on things in our version after the KR changes, but our version hadn't yet reached that point so I'm not counting them)

Regardless of when it happened, this provides two possibilities: someone was wrong, or there was a nerf. Fluffy's testing is transparent and reproducible and I've done so myself so I trust their testing, and as I've said the values for the Acc offhands have been tested multiple times to be equal to the old RU and KR testing which shows that they were correct too. Thus, there was a nerf, and considering that people noticed a difference in hit-rate with awakenings' release and we also know that other factors of the combat system were re-balanced at the same time, it's not very presumptive to say that's when Bheg's was nerfed as well.

If you're only referring to the NA/EU servers when you say "show me proof that it was ever nerfed" (if true, you should have said so a long time ago), we've consistently gotten releases and re-balancing of items at the exact same time that KR did in the content timeline (and they couldn't have implemented the awakening item balancing until awakenings, because half the equation didn't exist), only class changes and quality-of-life changes such as new interfaces have gotten to us early.

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