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Are ninjas really that bad?

144 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hey returning player, got my warrior to 58, yet it didn't feel fun to me Anymore,

 

so I'm stuck between musa or ninja right now, I have both at 52.

 

i like a fast paced play style, where I can punish other players mistakes, as well as think on my feet and have multiple options at any given time in the middle of a battle to counter an enemy in pvp.

 

so far I'm liking musas speed but it's feeling bland and easy, but everyone on ninja forums is saying they need a buff badly..

 

tldr; is ninja really as bad as everyone makes them out to be? Or does other classes need to be nerfed to ninja level of balance? 

 

Edit: I find the ninja play style more fun so far, musa in pve is easy, down + lmb + rmb and clear camps. I also enjoy classes with more utility or buff management - think rogue on WoW - I played one for 8 years and never got bored.

Edited by Meatstorm

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Posted

tldr; is ninja really as bad as everyone makes them out to be? Or does other classes need to be nerfed to ninja level of balance? 

This is my opinion, and I am a relatively new ninja. The ninja is not an easy class to play, but I think  a lot of the forum is a bit extreme if the opinion is that the ninja is "bad". The ninja has an extremely high skill cap (which is one of the many things that I like about the class) but is very unforgiving (little room for error). In PVP, the ninja is very competitive, but relies heavily on the execution of combos. If the combos are not executed correctly or a couple of mistakes are made, then the likely outcome will be loosing the fight. On the other hand, if the combos are executed successfully and block/super armor is used properly, I can see the ninja being near unstoppable.

I do not have any unbiased feedback for the Musa unfortunately.

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Posted (edited)

This is my opinion, and I am a relatively new ninja. The ninja is not an easy class to play, but I think  a lot of the forum is a bit extreme if the opinion is that the ninja is "bad". The ninja has an extremely high skill cap (which is one of the many things that I like about the class) but is very unforgiving (little room for error). In PVP, the ninja is very competitive, but relies heavily on the execution of combos. If the combos are not executed correctly or a couple of mistakes are made, then the likely outcome will be loosing the fight. On the other hand, if the combos are executed successfully and block/super armor is used properly, I can see the ninja being near unstoppable.

I do not have any unbiased feedback for the Musa unfortunately.

 

I'm the kind of player who thinks on there feet and if I do good I feel good, but then I think of whAt I could have done better, then incorporate that into my next attempt at pvp.

 

musa seems pretty straight forward so far, just very flashy abilities which is why I was drawn to him 

Edited by Meatstorm

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Posted

Ninja is insanely powerful as long as you are not in the middle of a so called blob fight. Any time you're alone, you can either get away or win. As long as you are on equal gear, only warrior and berserker will have a decent chance to win against you once you manage to get better at it, in a 1v1 that is.

Group fights, for that it's not optimal. So for node wars,  you and your guild leader better be creative in how you use your ninjas. But you definitely have a role that you can fill, don't worry.

In 1v1 fights, unless your enemy is a crazy high-stacked evasion player, you should be good to go at about 170-180 AP. Ninja lacks a lot of superarmors in comparison to other classes while we use our abilities, so you'll have to be careful with when you cast what.

 

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Posted

So basically it's safe to play a ninja, and that everyone is being over dramatic on the forums  about how bad this class needs buffs? 

Because honestly ninja is far more enjoyable than musa in pve and pvp.

 

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Posted

Class needs buffs. But plenty of bad people in the game for you to shit on so its not like you'll never win 1v1s.

 

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Posted (edited)

So basically it's safe to play a ninja, and that everyone is being over dramatic on the forums  about how bad this class needs buffs? 

Because honestly ninja is far more enjoyable than musa in pve and pvp.

 

You will find that our grind speed is far inferior to a musa, at least once you reach awakening. Other than that, I, personally, see absolutely no reason to complain about the class.

Do we have weaknesses and things that could improve our quality of life? Definitely! We have tons of them. Like I mentioned the stuff about blob fights. Since we lack superarmors and frontalblock on our actual damaging attacks, we can't join in on certain kinds of fights. But there are ways to play around that. Stay at the outskirt of a fight.

We've got a bunch of "unusable" abilities. Lots of them that are crazy weak and would just not be possible to be used in pvp without also dying right afterwards. But we have skills that are powerful enough to make up for these lacking ones, in my opinion. Serpent ascension, you will find, deals insane amounts of damage in pvp. If you have enough accuracy, at least.

If your opponent does not have enough AP to instantly kill you, and does not have grab, katana shower is an actual decent super armor ability. You just need to make sure you know who's near you before you use it.

As soon as you hit awakening, if you chose ninja, start practicing at using the transitioning stance. Right click to raise your sword over your head. It's what brings us a great deal of our strength.

Edited by Sanks
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Posted (edited)

I think I'll get both awakenings for ninja and musa, whichever feels much more fun I'll play.

 

chances are it's probably going to be ninja since it actually has mechanics and decent buff management, as well as requiring thought.

Edited by Meatstorm

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Posted

Musa has a more active role in node wars because they can burst down people with less effort than we can, they also grind better.

 

Ninja feels more fluid though. If you love it, play it, just remember it's a labor of love and you will not be a front line god. 

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Posted

Yes, they are. And it sucks because i love the class.

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Posted

Good plan, play both at awakening and see which one you liked.

In regaeds to complaining on our forums I think the complaining basically falls into 3 categories:

1. People who think we need major buffs and are completely underpowered. More super armor, higher damage, etc.

2. People who think we need minor tweaks like a faster animation here or there, stealth adjustments, etc.

3. People who think we are overpowered.

I'd say most people that have been playing the class for awhile fall into category 2. So ninjas aren't complete trash.

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Posted

Good plan, play both at awakening and see which one you liked.

In regaeds to complaining on our forums I think the complaining basically falls into 3 categories:

1. People who think we need major buffs and are completely underpowered. More super armor, higher damage, etc.

2. People who think we need minor tweaks like a faster animation here or there, stealth adjustments, etc.

3. People who think we are overpowered.

I'd say most people that have been playing the class for awhile fall into category 2. So ninjas aren't complete trash.

I agree with this post. 

 

Ninjas get +3 movement speed just for being ninjas? Yay!

 

would also improve our grind speed maybe? i dunno.

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Posted

I agree with this post. 

 

Ninjas get +3 movement speed just for being ninjas? Yay!

 

would also improve our grind speed maybe? i dunno.

lol. I was thinking like faster animation on sura chaospree.

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Posted

Yeah they're pretty bad. The ones I see get lots of kills are very reliant on their gear, high ping and Drastic Measure. Don't go with Musa either. IMO you should start off with a wizard or warrior. 

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Posted

Its not that ninja is bad, is that many other characters are better incomparsio. his effort required to be gooddoesn't pay well like better technical characters. we are the least plyed  class in every version of BDO. or one of least

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Posted

Ninja is an extremely fun class, Something I don't think anyone argues, I think the hardest points to justify for Ninja are probably larger group fights and PvE grinding. Compared to just about every other class (besides maybe Maewha and maybe Tamer) Including out sister class, Ninja has a pretty lackluster clear speed. This will result in slower grinding and income (not sure if its a common thing for other ninja players but I have an alt with a better clear speed for farming silver.). Larger group fights (Read: Zerg balls) will usually end poorly if you try to fight in them. The best thing to try and do in this case is work backline, focusing on the ranged classes. The problem here is since the class is so combo heavy it's difficult to get more than a couple hits in before someone else comes in to jump you (Read: every zerk peeler ever.) and keeps you from combo'ing. so you have to take a very hit and run approach, which feels ok but you don't feel as contributing in those fights as say a witch or wiz nuking everything or a zerk locking a group down, or a warr jumping into the middle of the ball, ect.

Tl;Dr: Very fun class and well worth trying but will feel a noticeable hit to clear speed and performance in mass fights.

P.S. While I don't feel as though Ninja needs an overhaul of buffs, I do think a couple of additions, namely super armor for Serpent and maybe a very slight increase to the length of our I-frame for ghost step, would go a long way for our class.

P.P.S: Please Kakao. Gavi and Chungho. we've been waiting. for. ages.

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Posted

 

P.S. While I don't feel as though Ninja needs an overhaul of buffs, I do think a couple of additions, namely super armor for Serpent and maybe a very slight increase to the length of our I-frame for ghost step, would go a long way for our class.

That's a huge buff tbh.

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Posted

That's a huge buff tbh.

but is it really that much of an increase compared to what most classes get default?

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Posted

but is it really that much of an increase compared to what most classes get default?

i'd be fine with them toning down other classes

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Posted

i'd be fine with them toning down other classes

I think with the direction theyve been drifting with classes, we'd be less likely to see that degree of a nerf unless they just reworked CC and super Armor as a whole.

it'd be more likely for them to just give a few additions to the classes falling short than to work down the classes on top as a whole.

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Posted

Serpent Ascension needs forward block not super armor, SA on SA would be much to powerfull. I would also like to see them make the 59 and 60 flow abilities usefull. 

Mach explosions hitd should go off if you move.

Chaos spree animation needs to be 3x faster

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Posted

Serpent Ascension needs forward block not super armor, SA on SA would be much to powerfull. I would also like to see them make the 59 and 60 flow abilities usefull. 

Mach explosions hitd should go off if you move.

Chaos spree animation needs to be 3x faster

While I'd love to see chaos spree being 3x faster, it might become OP that way. A while ago I tried to see if it could be used in some kind of combo. I tried to do murderous intent for a stiffness and then chaos spree afterwards for a stun. If it was just a small amount faster, it would be possible to land a 3rd CC afterwards. So with 3x faster, it would probably be possible to do something like murderous intent -> sura chaos spree -> serpent, adding all the dmg from sura chaos spree as an addition to the already rather high damage in the combo. 

If it was fast enough to be a reliable stun with time afterwards, it could open up nasty potential ability combos for chaining stun / stiffness / stun without being shitty damage. Maybe. So there are things you'd have to be careful with, if you were a dev and wanted to buff it. 

Don't get me wrong, though. I want all of our abilities to be "OK" in pvp, and at the moment, sura chaos spree is not. But a "small" change could lead to a very big difference.

Serpent I dunno. I, myself, I feel I do well enough with it as it is. But I fought some people somewhat recently and they thought that based on how much damage it did, they, as non-ninjas, felt it would be fair to give it a frontal block.

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Posted

A front block on serpents would be nice, it would make wrecking people hitting the node fort that much easier, especially considering the cast time on the double serpents in kind of high with lag and a blob of people. That would go a long way to improving node war impact. 

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Posted (edited)

 

Serpent Ascension needs forward block not super armor, SA on SA would be much to powerfull. I would also like to see them make the 59 and 60 flow abilities usefull.

Mach explosions hitd should go off if you move.

Chaos spree animation needs to be 3x faster

I fully agree with this. While serpent is already our best burst dmg skill a Chaos spree waves at the werge of being useless with its casting time and how easy it can be interrupted.

 

I personally find Chaos spree usefull mainly in pve (just after block jump to apply back dmg) and pvp just after grab.

In firts case (pve) it often gets interrupted and there are many better (dmg over time wise) skills to use - I use it because i love the animation) and for heal purpose.

In pvp its extremely dangeous one (for caster not opponent) and I use it sometimes not because of mediocre dmg but for heal (and style:P)

 

In the end best looking ninja skill (in my opinion) that made me lvl up to 59 ends as a shiny toy that becomes useless in serious fights because of its casting time, cd and interruptability (it becomes suicide in most pvp scenerios)

Edited by Kripion

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Posted (edited)

While I'd love to see chaos spree being 3x faster, it might become OP that way. A while ago I tried to see if it could be used in some kind of combo. I tried to do murderous intent for a stiffness and then chaos spree afterwards for a stun. If it was just a small amount faster, it would be possible to land a 3rd CC afterwards. So with 3x faster, it would probably be possible to do something like murderous intent -> sura chaos spree -> serpent, adding all the dmg from sura chaos spree as an addition to the already rather high damage in the combo. 

If it was fast enough to be a reliable stun with time afterwards, it could open up nasty potential ability combos for chaining stun / stiffness / stun without being shitty damage. Maybe. So there are things you'd have to be careful with, if you were a dev and wanted to buff it. 

Try it with a witch / wiz buff while having awakening buff with speed on + alchemy stone. It is doable while stacking insane amounts of atk speed to lower the open attack window to a minimum. It's the same with Decap while hitting the sweet spot. You can speed up the animations quite a bit. Not just something that can reliably be used very often as everything has to sync up.

I rarely use Chaos Spree regardless, but it has helped out on occasion.

Edited by Sansarah

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