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Are ninjas really that bad?

144 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Speaking as a ninja main here is the biggest issue.

 

It's not that Ninja is technically weak. or strong. It's that compared to
Ranger,Warrior,Zerk,Sorc,Wiz/Witch it's weak. Only by comparing it to other classes
does it look or feel weak.


What can ninja do that ranger,warrior,zerk,sorc/wiz/witch cant do better?


PVE? No,every one of those classes grinds faster.
PVP? No, With equal gear or less it is easier to win with those classes.
Node War? Whats a ninja gonna do? Take out the "backline?" You mean the DP/eva stacking wiz/witch
that have more DP than zerk now in high tier node wars? Nope.
Scout? Nope,Stealth still broke. The tooltip says you are invulnerable during awakened stealth,Does it work?
No. Does it even do half of what it says? No.

 

Is ninja fun? Yes. Does it feel rewarding? Yes. Is it worth it to me to play the uphill battle that is a ninja? Yes.
Will it be worth it to most? No. Why? Because the average player will never get over 230 ap.
and around lvl 60 225-230+ ap (in my opinion) is where the class starts to shine. But again.
Everything is viable with over 220 ap,Because at that point you are now a delivery method for AP damage.
Does that mean that just because something is viable it should be played? no. Will the top guilds recruit you?
Absolutely not. Because Ninjas aren't wanted. That is a fact. Not opinion.

 

So ask yourself this. Are you the average player?
If yes. Don't play Ninja.

Are you going to play twice as much as most people and invest every single bit of your money in 
this one character? Then yes play Ninja.

 

I love my ninja. The playstyle is the most enjoyable out of all the classes for me.,However if i threw 230 ap on one of the classes
mentioned above instead of my ninja would i fair better just by being those classes? Simple answer? Yes. In almost every aspect
of the game. Simply by better damage multipliers provided by these classes not even counting their superior cc.

 

There are many out there that will whiteknight this class just because they love Ninja. Unfortunately whiteknights 
don't help either side of this equation. 

Pull less punches and be more objective. I dare you.

Edited by Freeway
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Posted

...

Is ninja fun? Yes. Does it feel rewarding? Yes. Is it worth it to me to play the uphill battle that is a ninja? Yes.
Will it be worth it to most? No. Why? Because the average player will never get over 230 ap.
and around lvl 60 225-230+ ap (in my opinion) is where the class starts to shine. But again.
Everything is viable with over 220 ap,Because at that point you are now a delivery method for AP damage.
Does that mean that just because something is viable it should be played? no. Will the top guilds recruit you?
Absolutely not. Because Ninjas aren't wanted. That is a fact. Not opinion.

...

Well i main ninja too. I knew I will main it 2,5 half years ago when this class hit KR servers. 

And I agree with almost all you wrote.

But...you dont need to be on top or even near average geared to enjoy this class.  Im under average lvl of playing (couning last 7 days I worked around 120 hours...) but still i love to play ninja. Im sitting at 190/191/283 stats now but still i love it. If the gear gap isnt too big this class allowes to nullify it just by playing well. And this is the best part of ninja as a class. You need to polish your skill as a player not only your gear - this is sth that hardcore as well as casual player can do:)

 

P.S. I'v geared wizard lately: 165/199/270 - even while killing monsters almost as fast the fun was terribly low. In the end its not efficiency what matters for me. Fun its the sole purpose of playing. And ninja is defiunetly a fun class to main.

 

 

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Posted

Well i main ninja too. I knew I will main it 2,5 half years ago when this class hit KR servers. 

And I agree with almost all you wrote.

But...you dont need to be on top or even near average geared to enjoy this class.  Im under average lvl of playing (couning last 7 days I worked around 120 hours...) but still i love to play ninja. Im sitting at 190/191/283 stats now but still i love it. If the gear gap isnt too big this class allowes to nullify it just by playing well. And this is the best part of ninja as a class. You need to polish your skill as a player not only your gear - this is sth that hardcore as well as casual player can do:)

 

P.S. I'v geared wizard lately: 165/199/270 - even while killing monsters almost as fast the fun was terribly low. In the end its not efficiency what matters for me. Fun its the sole purpose of playing. And ninja is defiunetly a fun class to main.

 

 

Now where in my post does it say you need to be on top of gear to "enjoy" the class?

i said you need decent gear for it to be "worth" it.

 

Definition of Worth ( the value equivalent to that of someone or something under consideration; the level at which someone or something deserves to be valued or rated.)

Definition of Enjoy ( take delight or pleasure in (an activity or occasion).

 

Lets take this statement though. (  I'v geared wizard lately: 165/199/270 - even while killing monsters almost as fast the fun was terribly low )

Almost as fast? Even With those stats you can outfarm a ninja an insane amount. If it's "almost as fast" you aren't playing it right.

 

efficiency is not everything? . It is most of it. Even to having fun in this game. Having enough gear to compete is what makes the game fun.

Lets be honest. PVP is the real endgame here. And you aren't pvping anyone real without gear. And you aren't pvping any decent player

with 190 AP as a ninja. Hate to burst y00r bubbbble

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Posted (edited)

Now where in my post does it say you need to be on top of gear to "enjoy" the class?

i said you need decent gear for it to be "worth" it.

 

Sry but this sounded like that. Or at least like you try to encourage others to aim for it.

So ask yourself this. Are you the average player?
If yes. Don't play Ninja.

Are you going to play twice as much as most people and invest every single bit of your money in 
this one character? Then yes play Ninja.

Definition of Worth ( the value equivalent to that of someone or something under consideration; the level at which someone or something deserves to be valued or rated.)

Definition of Enjoy ( take delight or pleasure in (an activity or occasion).

---- What if im a little "someone" who finds an amout of fun as a "value equivalent" ???

 

Almost as fast? Even With those stats you can outfarm a ninja an insane amount. If it's "almost as fast" you aren't playing it right.

efficiency is not everything? . It is most of it. Even to having fun in this game. Having enough gear to compete is what makes the game fun.

Lets be honest. PVP is the real endgame here. And you aren't pvping anyone real without gear. And you aren't pvping any decent player

with 190 AP as a ninja. Hate to burst y00r bubbbble

Ok lets make it a little more clear, lvl 56 wizard and lvl 59 ninja.  And in the first place I had a lot more time to learn how to grind with ninja (but at the same time I dont think i suck on wiz so bad:) 

The definition of end game varies depending on what matters for each player...

 

Hate to burst y00r bubbbble BUT... You should have already learned that stats arent all in this game especially as a ninja player... 

Edited by Kripion

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Posted (edited)

 

Sry but this sounded like that. Or at least like you try to encourage others to aim for it.

Definition of Worth ( the value equivalent to that of someone or something under consideration; the level at which someone or something deserves to be valued or rated.)

Definition of Enjoy ( take delight or pleasure in (an activity or occasion).

---- What if im a little "someone" who finds an amout of fun as a "value equivalent" ???

 

 

Ok lets make it a little more clear, lvl 56 wizard and lvl 59 ninja.  And in the first place I had a lot more time to learn how to grind with ninja (but at the same time I dont think i suck on wiz so bad:) 

The definition of end game varies depending on what matters for each player...

 

Hate to burst y00r bubbbble BUT... You should have already learned that stats arent all in this game especially as a ninja player... 

The only endgame in bdo in PVE is aakman etc. Which is a pitiful disgrace for endgame pve.

Untill kamasi releases that is.

Do you concider world bosses endgame pve? If so i will laugh incestuously 

Lifeskill endgame ? It's not.

Pvp is the only endgame. pvp that is constantly changing and constantly provides a "challenge"

because no two players play exactly the same. It's not the same as fighting a pirate or sausan that autopaths

and does the same thing every time.

Endgame content is to "challenge" a player. There is no challenging pve content in this game.

There is only PVP

Stats arent all in this game? Thats all this game is.. Is stats... and management of them...

The definition of endgame does not vary by player. End game content is the content that challenges you once you

reach end game. There is currently nothing in the game that does that for PVE. Therefor currently it is PVP untill kamisi

is released.. And your gear is no where near "End Game"

 

 

Edited by Freeway

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Posted (edited)

 ok ok ok ... our definitions arent similar right? Im ok with it. All I care is fun. Im a player for last 25 years and I learned that when you focus too much on end game and those damn stats you will get more and more salty and entitled every day untill you burn out... 

.. And your gear is no where near "End Game"

Yes! Thank you that you reminded me about that! And im really glad that even while im far under  averange (not to mention about end game) gear level I still have FUN I still have plenty to upgrade while im haveing FUN! 

FUN isnt only for pleb right?:)

 

And now lets go back to threat topic and answer : are ninja that bad? NO!  why? because you can have fun playing it regardles gear or your end game definition!

 

 

Edited by Kripion

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Posted

i will laugh incestuously 

How does one do this? Do you grab a family member's genitals while laughing? 

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Posted

How does one do this? Do you grab a family member's genitals while laughing? 

You must watch me through the window at the local internet cafe in my black turtleneck drinking my

half cafe mocha chonation latte whilst fondeling my top knot

and using my big toe to swipe left on tinder with my now 0.000025% slimmer new iProd cattle edition.

My other hand is of course perform many a Jewish Bris to my family members as you alluded to.

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Posted

Any -----er who tells you that ninja is weak a casual trash

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Posted

Any -----er who tells you that ninja is weak a casual trash

Those are quite harsh words, I'm tired of this community as well. But going so far as calling people casual trash, isn't very nice regardless of who you are. I'd say it's more of an wide spread opinion based combination, of having lower tier gear and level compared to opponents that most people feel that the class is performing in a lack luster manner.

I however disagree on this, but I'm also at the stage where I can compete so I can only respect the views of others who aren't in the same position. Calling people weak casual trash because they don't share your opinion is just a salt bait. A lame one at that tbh.

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Posted

sry if I offended you, at the end idc, I just like trolling a bit when I'm bored

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Posted

Musa has a more active role in node wars because they can burst down people with less effort than we can, they also grind better.

Never seen musa rekting pple 300dp+ in short (3s) combo without even using 100% rage. Trying to find out where is the less effort :ph34r:

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Posted

Ninja is still not weak. Please, no complainerinos. 

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Posted (edited)

While I'd love to see chaos spree being 3x faster, it might become OP that way. A while ago I tried to see if it could be used in some kind of combo. I tried to do murderous intent for a stiffness and then chaos spree afterwards for a stun. If it was just a small amount faster, it would be possible to land a 3rd CC afterwards. So with 3x faster, it would probably be possible to do something like murderous intent -> sura chaos spree -> serpent, adding all the dmg from sura chaos spree as an addition to the already rather high damage in the combo. 

I'd rather change it so it has superarmor for full duration instead of increasing as. Could be nice to have such handy skill (as alternative/follow up for shower)  for situations you get ganked.

Edited by Templarek

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Posted

I'd rather change it so it has superarmor for full duration instead of increasing as. Could be nice to have such handy skill with great hp regen and superarmor for situations you get ganked.

Would sort of rely on you out gearing your opponent (wizards/witch super armor abilities have superior damage, but the self heal might make up for it!) for it to be useful. But then again. Other classes have abilities like that too. Could be a good change. 

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Posted (edited)

If the attack speed on Chaos Spree is upgraded, it would be enough to make it viable. Giving it pure superarmor would be dangerous in terms of it becoming op. Considering it would be chain-able heals. Which is always dangerous in a game with power creeps.

Edited by Sansarah

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Posted

I would love either the attack speed increase or super armor suggestions for chaos sphere. 

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Posted

If the attack speed on Chaos Spree is upgraded, it would be enough to make it viable. Giving it pure superarmor would be dangerous in terms of it becoming op. Considering it would be chain-able heals. Which is always dangerous in a game with power creeps.

900 hp is nothing when you die in one or two skills when knocked down.

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Posted

900 hp is nothing when you die in one or two skills when knocked down.

I thought we had come to an agreement that we'd ignore each other.

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Posted

I forgot honestly.

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Posted

I forgot honestly.

lol

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Posted

If you want to do competitive GvG pvp, dont pick ninja, they are completely useless compared to their counterparts for scouting/attacking backlines

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If you want to do competitive GvG pvp, dont pick ninja, they are completely useless compared to their counterparts for scouting/attacking backlines

that's a harsh assessment. 

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If you want to do competitive GvG pvp, dont pick ninja, they are completely useless compared to their counterparts for scouting/attacking backlines

https://streamable.com/jamlt

 

this guy seemes to do more than fine to me

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Posted (edited)

If you want to do competitive GvG pvp, dont pick ninja, they are completely useless compared to their counterparts for scouting/attacking backlines

sry but you are wrong. Totaly... ninja is _OP_ as f.u.ck ... yes they dont fight in blobfights.. but there are not only blobfights... and even then they have a retardet _OP_ roll there... but well just believe what you say...

imho: most fun class in sieges = ninja by far.

Edited by nyn idc

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