• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Crafted Economy still poop

129 posts in this topic

Posted

I never said that's how much it costs to MAKE

That's the price if you are to sell it on the market

Yet again another moron who doesn't actually pay attention to what is being discussed and jumps to misinformed conclusions because you like your ilk are incapable of any actual critical thinking

Maybe he's not the moron here if most people disagree with you...

NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO EQUAL PROFIT - ESPECIALLY WHEN WORKERS  ARE FREE FOR ALL, AND WORTH 1 CP PRETTY MUCH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Isn't this a flaw of set prices in BDO more then anything. The actual value of items cannot auto correct as they are hard coded prices. 

1million logs on Marketplace at any price that doesn't sell is basically just an overpriced log. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Okay it's clear you have some mental issues, where did I ever mention chicken meat or using it to make merchant wagons ?

Steel is used in a lot of recipes, however, the market is stagnant in the movement of steel, nobody buys it which is why there's hundreds of thousands of it on the marketplace

This is NOT a good mechanic for the game

Also seeing as you bring up chicken meat despite me not mentioning it at all in this entire thread (well done on projecting your delusions) it's still used in some useful recipes, however again, as you say it's a trash commodity, which it shouldn't be, no commodity should be trash if you want for a productive and in depth crafting system and economy.

everytime I've put steel ingots up on the market, they sell. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Get all material for free ? Again that is a FALLACY, it is not free materials it costs time to get those materials in setting workers, in making beer (or buying it if you're lazy) to keep those workers functioning, in processing, those gathered materials.

The whole concept behind crafted items is they're supposed to yield a higher price than the sum of their parts, it's basic economics, I can't believe you kids are actually this stupid to not understand such a simple concept and why it is NOT good for the health of the game.

It makes absolutely zero sense that the devs would put so much effort into making such an in depth crafting system with thousands of recipes yet not expect anybody to want to make some profit from solely being a crafter and to expect everybody to be entirely self sufficient avoiding any market interactions.

Unless of course you're all too stupid to realise it, which I would not put it past you

LOL This stupid? Oh Im sorry you're too -----ing poor to buy 1mil of beer every 2 days. Oh Wait, that's free too. Oh but wait, that takes time. No, wait....you can do it AFK.

So where's the problem here? Oh, right. you're full of shit and just want to ----- about nothing. If you're not making money processing I feel sorry for you must be mentally challenged. But wait the problem is the .65 multiplier right, you're not making enough crafting. So here's the solution camp the market and buy a Value pack. Damn man that just solved everything you got a 20% boost there. Don't want to do that? Man, tough luck. Go grind and make money then. Or go play another game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

To OP: why I do agree with you that the price range in this game is weird and not similar to many MMO on the market. However I think you forget one thing that really important in the whole scenario .  The item only worth as much as people are willing to buy it for. In your example, you can sell 1 steel for "6297 silver" . Can you really sell 1 steel bar for that much? If yes, how long does it take you to sell it? For "Shining Steel Lumbering Axe", I can sell it instantly ( anywhere from 15-20 minutes after I list the item and if you account for the queue time ( around 10-15 minutes) which will make the wait time to sell "Shining Steel Lumbering Axe" like 5 minutes.  As the result, I can always expect get money right away if I sell "Shining Steel Lumbering Axe" but "Steel" is another story.

Now if you increase the price cap for "Shining Steel Lumbering Axe" or lower the price for "Steel" . what make you think that "Shining Steel Lumbering Axe" or "steel" can all sale ? Because if you lower the price of "steel" or increase the price of "Shining Steel Lumbering Axe" , everyone will see that it will more profit if they make "Shining Steel Lumbering Axe" , a lots of player now start to make "Shining Steel Lumbering Axe" and market will surplus that item.

 

Let's look at another example here, about 1,2 months ago people crying for Black Stone events or rather there is no black stone on the market.  Many people even pre-order for days and can't even get their black stone.  How about now? you have 32k black stone armor on the market, you can buy black stone for a minimum price. If you have black stone right now and put on market for 210k , you never sell your blackstone. 

 

TLDR: just because you can list an item on the market, it doesn't mean the item will sell. Unless we have unrestricted market like many mmo and have the players itself to decide the price. Increase or decrease price of item doesn't really solve anything. 

Edited by Rukia Kuchiki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

If you don't mind me asking, what makes them so terrible? The fact that they prevent from rich players controlling the market, or the fact that they guarantee a minimum price for an item and stops people from under-cutting? 

My favorite example is logs atm, an extremely high demand item with very little supply. Due to the set price of logs there's no incentive for players to go out and gather them to sell on the market, when in a free market you'd have almost the exact opposite scenario. It's also really sad preorders exist in this game and that silver just vanishes into thin air, though it represents a more realistic price for the item. Anyhow I'm on phone atm and apologize for this lackluster answer but,

tldr; Theres no incentives for suppliers and demand runs rampant -----ing up the economy. Also the prices of horses and workers are stupid low often times.

 

 

Edit - Also would like to say that it's already way too late in the game to try and change the market (except maybe horse/worker exchange) I just wish the game had started with a free market.

Edited by DreamC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Using pure iron crystal to craft shining tool to be sold on MP is stupid. There is product that actually yield margin over materials needed to craft them & require pure iron crystal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

nice math, did you calculate in the chance of proc'ing a lucky tool?

 

because you can sell them for 396,000*.845=334,620

 

so every 4 shining tool proc once, will break even on the mats.

 

nice math dude! jk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

the end product for crafting tools isn't the tool on the market its making lucky tools to have better energy efficiency when farming for sharps/hards. 

selling the base tool on the market is just a byproduct. its like one company selling its waste product. its better than nothing but they dont really care cause thats not where the profit is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Maybe the tool crafting is a bad example, because as many people have mentioned already, you're after the rare product, not the guaranteed product.

I do however agree that there are several processed materials that sell for way less than the base products needed to process. For example making a steel bar, you get more than double the money if you would sell the base mats needed to make the steel bar than selling the bar itself.

But at the same time you need to think that the reason behind processing a steel bar is to use them for crafting something else that can provide you with a profit, even greater than the base mats (for example lucky tools).

In a way, you could be smart and sell your base mats, buy the steel bars from the market and use those to craft your tools. But this would only be an issue if everyone did this and it would cause the market to go empty with steel bars. But as a side effect to this, steel bars will keep selling at max price, which will cause the price to go up, maybe even past the base mats cost. And then the opposite will start, that people process bars instead of buying them and then eventually it would find a balance.

 

Only reason why the market is so off in prices is because people don't usually check up and compare prices and simply just process what they have (maybe to level up processing) and then sell them at whatever price the market accepts.

 

I personally think the market works out well, you just gotta do more investigation and planning to make a bigger profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 For example making a steel bar, you get more than double the money if you would sell the base mats needed to make the steel bar than selling the bar itself.

This example is absolutely false. You get more money if you make iron shards and sell those + coal or you get even more money if you make steel bars and sell those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If you don't mind me asking, what makes them so terrible? The fact that they prevent from rich players controlling the market, or the fact that they guarantee a minimum price for an item and stops people from under-cutting? 

That some prices are set absolutely off... Market control is required to prevent few people form playing the market the way they want... But it also prevents some of the incorrectly priced goods from selling and they just flood the market, and others are barely sold at all, bcs it aint worth selling them and people rather just keep them for the chance of using them in future, even if that chance might never come...

Smartly set prices -OK!

Our set prices - not OK!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Maybe he's not the moron here if most people disagree with you...

Most of the people are disagreeing with something I'm not even highlighting, that is the ultimate stupidity of you all, arguing a completely different point

nice math, did you calculate in the chance of proc'ing a lucky tool?

Ok genius, tell us the odds of getting a lucky tool... Oh wait, you can't because it's RNG and as another poster has said he's made 39 shining tools and NOT GOT A SINGLE LUCKY TOOL, so just how in your ultimate wisdom do you quantify RNG as solid hard number and FYI 39 tools = 1.17million silver loss over selling the raw materials, or the equivalent of 3 lucky tools which he is yet to get

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Most of the people are disagreeing with something I'm not even highlighting, that is the ultimate stupidity of you all, arguing a completely different point

Ok genius, tell us the odds of getting a lucky tool... Oh wait, you can't because it's RNG and as another poster has said he's made 39 shining tools and NOT GOT A SINGLE LUCKY TOOL, so just how in your ultimate wisdom do you quantify RNG as solid hard number and FYI 39 tools = 1.17million silver loss over selling the raw materials, or the equivalent of 3 lucky tools which he is yet to get

All ppl who make shining tools are doing it to get lucky tool... Tell me why i should care that i loose 20k by not selling materials on MP when i already got shards worth BILLIONS by using lucky tools i got? Few millions lost by not selling materials on Mp is nothing compared to ammount of wealth i earned... There were times when shining tools were sold for 30k and i didnt even bother to sell them on MP, i trash them to NPC and didnt care about it, cause i got more silver then enough to cover it from shards i got... Also if Kakao will change minimum price of tools to lets say 200k then Mp will be full of that items that will never sell and we will be forced to trash them to NPC again? Why? Cause demand after event will decrease by a lot and market will be oversupply and we will just simply sell shining tools to NPC again...

39 tools and thats your example? In last half of year i crafted few thousands of that tools and i can assure you then rng to get lucky one with correct workers is good enough...

Also you saying that almost all items we crafters make are not worth to sell on MP? Thats bullsh1t and you simply know nothing about crafting market... Tools are not worth, cause ppl simple craft them for lucky tools and they not care if price is 1k or 200k, epheria boat is special example, cause most players do them once just to have that special boat and they not care if they loose money by not selling materials or not... And there are few kind of items that are not worth to craft, but noone bother to even try to make them... But there is a lot a stuff you can make that are worth to craft and give you decent profit that can make you like me- one of top richest players on server... Grunils, rods, wagons, some of yuria weapons, stuff from underwater gathering, life skill clothes, horse gear= all of that items can make you billionaire in game like they make me myself... But im tired of teaching ppl how to play and use economy in game properly...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

My favorite example is logs atm, an extremely high demand item with very little supply. Due to the set price of logs there's no incentive for players to go out and gather them to sell on the market, when in a free market you'd have almost the exact opposite scenario. It's also really sad preorders exist in this game and that silver just vanishes into thin air, though it represents a more realistic price for the item.

This example doesn't really work when logs are easily gathered, that's most probably why prices don't rise. Sure there's a very high demand for them and the supply doesn't meat it, but what's to stop a player from picking up an axe and chopping wood themselves? If we were talking about an item that requires 3 different workshops and an artisan worker then I'd understand, but an item likes this? Not really.

That some prices are set absolutely off... Market control is required to prevent few people form playing the market the way they want... But it also prevents some of the incorrectly priced goods from selling and they just flood the market, and others are barely sold at all, bcs it aint worth selling them and people rather just keep them for the chance of using them in future, even if that chance might never come...

Is the fact that the market can't be controlled worth having some items that can't be sold? Yes. You're also forgetting that whilst some base items can't be sold, they can be crafted into items that will be sold. Chicken Meat may be a terrible seller but organic feed, dark pudding and fried bird all sell well. Let's also not forget that you can vendor the items as well, you may not get the price you'd get on the marketplace but at least it will sell. Flax fabric may not sell well, but crafting it into lifeskill clothing and wagon parts then suddenly it does not sell.

The marketplace is about being smart, not crying that it's broken and then insulting everyone who disagrees with you. (not directed at you) :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Mp isnt controlled by rich? Thats total bullsh1t again from you Plunge- simply cause there are preorders in game... You rerolled wizard, cause its broken class and everyone is doing it now? Good luck trying to get dandelion competiting with thousands of players on every single one registered... Or you can just do same as rich ones and put 1b+ preorder on Tri dande wizard weapon (one of sellers have screenshot of his buyer who got tri dande with 1,5B preorder)... Ofc there is chance that item will bypass preorders, but you still compete with thousands to get this one... 

MP being free for everyone and not being controlled by rich is illusion players love to believe, its a lot more hidden control then in others MMO and power of rich is restricted in some areas, but definitely rich players can do a lot more and make a lot bigger profit using market then poor ones... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This example doesn't really work when logs are easily gathered, that's most probably why prices don't rise. Sure there's a very high demand for them and the supply doesn't meat it, but what's to stop a player from picking up an axe and chopping wood themselves? If we were talking about an item that requires 3 different workshops and an artisan worker then I'd understand, but an item likes this? Not really.

Any item that's scarce should drastically rise in price, it doesn't mean that logs should start selling for 100,000 silver each because it's true that they are easy to obtain. If it was a free market it would control itself for the most part. The reason people don't pick up an axe and go chop some wood to sell on the market is that there is no incentive to do so as it well sell for garbage on the marketplace, only player's who are actively building an epheria ship are doing this.

Anyhow I'm not arguing for a replacement of the marketplace on BDO as this late in the game it just wouldn't work. (Except horse market it would...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Most of the people are disagreeing with something I'm not even highlighting, that is the ultimate stupidity of you all, arguing a completely different point

Ok genius, tell us the odds of getting a lucky tool... Oh wait, you can't because it's RNG and as another poster has said he's made 39 shining tools and NOT GOT A SINGLE LUCKY TOOL, so just how in your ultimate wisdom do you quantify RNG as solid hard number and FYI 39 tools = 1.17million silver loss over selling the raw materials, or the equivalent of 3 lucky tools which he is yet to get

1 unlucky person does not make up for the whole population.

i crated 20 shining in a row without getting 1 lucky tool once, yes it was weird and I had to double check to see if i missed something because ON AVERAGE, i get 1 for every 4 my worker make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 unlucky person does not make up for the whole population.

i crated 20 shining in a row without getting 1 lucky tool once, yes it was weird and I had to double check to see if i missed something because ON AVERAGE, i get 1 for every 4 my worker make.

If 1 unlucky person does not make up for the whole population, neither does 1 lucky person

Ever heard of outliers in statistical bell curves, give me a hard number backed up with evidence and not one single sample size so we can calculate the average probability of getting a lucky tool.

All ppl who make shining tools are doing it to get lucky tool... Tell me why i should care that i loose 20k by not selling materials on MP when i already got shards worth BILLIONS by using lucky tools i got?

It's like banging my head against a brick wall

It's isn't about how you use your f**king lucky tools and the millions you make from gathering shards, it's about the relation between material value and selling value of finished item on the market.

So many dense people....

Edited by ArgleBargle
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If 1 unlucky person does not make up for the whole population, neither does 1 lucky person

Ever heard of outliers in statistical bell curves, give me a hard number backed up with evidence and not one single sample size so we can calculate the average probability of getting a lucky tool.

It's like banging my head against a brick wall

It's isn't about how you use your f**king lucky tools and the millions you make from gathering shards, it's about the relation between material value and selling value of finished item on the market.

So many dense people....

you are the dense one.

you just dont know how the game work, end of story.

u probably using a goblin to make the tools lol.

the math are there, u just dont want to face it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

If 1 unlucky person does not make up for the whole population, neither does 1 lucky person

Ever heard of outliers in statistical bell curves, give me a hard number backed up with evidence and not one single sample size so we can calculate the average probability of getting a lucky tool.

It's like banging my head against a brick

It's isn't about how you use your f**king lucky tools and the millions you make from gathering shards, it's about the relation between material value and selling value of finished item on the market.

So many dense people....

I said you already that i made thousands of tools and i not see anything wrong with rng considering lucky tools... Evidence? Do you really think that we who mass product life tools keep screenshots/videos of thousands of items we make?

Keep being dense and cry about irrelevant stuff accusing ppl that they know nothing about economy when me and others will keep earning billions from crafting and keep our place among richest players on server while using same economy you blame here...

 

You didnt answer me- if you think that its system fault that tools are sold for less then materials are worth then tell me why few months ago ppl were selling them for 30k and noone was complain about Mp being oversupply with shining tools and price being too low? You think 100k price is too low? Then what about 30k before? And it wasnt Kakao, we ourself undercut shining tools to 30k price...

Edited by Dorsai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This example is absolutely false. You get more money if you make iron shards and sell those + coal or you get even more money if you make steel bars and sell those.

Checking market right now.

Steel: 6900silver

Steel = 25x iron ore + 5 coal = 25x 340 + 5x 700 = 12000 silver

6900 =/= 12000

Melted iron shard = 1633 silver

Melted iron shard = 5x iron ore = 5x 340 = 1700 silver

1633 =/= 1700 silver

 

I'm on EU btw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

That some prices are set absolutely off... Market control is required to prevent few people form playing the market the way they want... But it also prevents some of the incorrectly priced goods from selling and they just flood the market, and others are barely sold at all, bcs it aint worth selling them and people rather just keep them for the chance of using them in future, even if that chance might never come...

Smartly set prices -OK!

Our set prices - not OK!

Im not a fan of any set prices in an mmo, but it's far too late to change to a free market now. But i really do wish they would work on smarter set prices at least.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

No because simple supply was a lot higher then demand and you just dont understand that basic economy... Ppl werent undercutting shining tools price that much few months ago cause they are idiots, they were, cause they had to.... Supply was too big and demand not enough to make price raise... But noone cared about it, cause lucky tools still net us crafters hundreds of millions...

 

During event that is ending right now there are ways to make with life skills 30m+ per hour easly... But you prefer to cry on forum instead of trying to find them and use (there are still 2 days left)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No because simple supply was a lot higher then demand and you just dont understand that basic economy... Ppl werent undercutting shining tools price that much few months ago cause they are idiots, they were, cause they had to.... Supply was too big and demand not enough to make price raise... But noone cared about it, cause lucky tools still net us crafters hundreds of millions...

 

During event that is ending right now there are ways to make with life skills 30m+ per hour easly... But you prefer to cry on forum instead of trying to find them and use (there are still 2 days left)...

They cannot set the price, that min/max price was set by Pearl Abyss, the players just went along with it without complaining because are happy to accept whatever status quo is thrown at them, because they're moronic sheep.

It has nothing to do with supply vs demand otherwise we would see the hundreds of "trash" resources on the market fall in price, which they don't because for some reason PA wants to keep the prices artificially high.

PA control the prices, not the players

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites