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PVP Is Completely Broken. Admit it.

142 posts in this topic

Posted

Let's just keep this simple.

We are both level 60. We are both the same class. We enter a duel against each other.

You know the class better than I do.
You have duelled every other class for hundreds of hours.
You know every stunlock combo your class has.
You know how to play around all my cooldowns effectively.
You have many hours of experience playing PVP in other MMO's.

I just started dipping my toes into PVP after making my fortune AFK fishing for the last 12 months straight. This is my first duel.

But you only had 100 million silver to spend on gear and I had 5 billion. Who would win?

Regardless of :

  • How well you know your class
  • How good you are at performing combo's
  • Your knowledge of other classes
  • Your ability to utilize your cooldowns effectively
  • Your reaction time

You cannot defeat me, because I simply outgear you. Because I have made more silver than you, regardless of how I did it (lifeskills, grinding mobs, AFK fishing for 12 months straight), I will win.

Essentially, because I have excelled in a portion of the game that is completely irrelevant to PVP, I am given a huge advantage when I choose to participate in PVP.

Translating the grinding of braindead NPC mobs, or AFK fishing, or farming vegetables, into a 300 to 500% damage increase in PVP combat is completely alienating and ridiculous.

----------------------------------------------

Here are some examples of how translating irrelevant time sinks into ridiculous competitive advantages could be compared to other games/sports/professions etc : 

  • I have hit a tennis ball against a wall 1 000 000 times, while you have won multiple tennis championships. So, for some reason, when we compete in a tennis match, you are given a rusty spoon to hit the ball with, while I have a brand new, top of the line tennis racket.
     
  • I have killed over 1 000 000 bots in practice matches against AI in CS:GO, while you are a in the Global Elite rank. Again, for some reason, when we play a 1v1 match, you are only allowed to use the knife while I start the match with an AK 47.
     
  • I come into work everyday and do nothing. I read Reddit all day. You come in and bust your ass, trying to help the company and do the best job you can. When the time comes for promotion, because I happen to have a better suit than you, I am given the promotion instantly. And a raise. And 10 000 Daum Cash.
     

But look, I know that you have played since release and grinded for untold hours to get 250 AP/300 DP and that those of us who don't have gear should have to follow suit if we want to be competitive.

But my point is not that I want to beat you without putting in effort. I don't feel entitled to 'free wins'.

My point is that you got rewarded for putting effort into activities that are irrelevant to PVP. You shouldn't deal 3 to 5 times more damage in competitive PVP because you had 10 farms pissing out sunflowers for 12 months straight. It doesn't translate.

----------------------------------------------------


Feel free to skip this part if you want, it's just a proposed solution, since I feel it's unfair for me to criticise the game so heavily without a proposed solution.

It's pretty simple : equalize gear in PVP.

Just make everyone have the same AP/DP and stats. 

Here's the biggest counter-argument that people have when this is mentioned : 

"If all gear is equalized in PVP, what is the point of grinding gear? Why would I ever buy better gear?"

The answer is simple. Gear should be the gatekeeper for more rewarding PVE content. You need gear to kill more difficult monsters, who drop better loot. The cycle continues : kill harder monsters, get better treasure.

The treasure could be a million things : cooler looking costumes for your character, pets, mounts, furniture for your house, gear for your horse, stuff for your boat etc.

Here's the other argument :

"But I only have fun in PVP, none of that stuff matters. If gear doesn't matter in PVP, then everything you do to improve gear is pointless to me." 

Well, then, just PVP!

If you honestly can't draw a single drop of enjoyment from anything in BDO except stomping noobs in your 250AP/300DP gear, then...sorry. But you are in the 1% of the playerbase and the game COULD NOT succeed financially if it was balanced around what you, as 1% of the playerbase, desired.

 

So in conclusion...just equalize gear in PVP. Please. So new players don't have to do irrelevant activities to generate silver for 6 months to be competitive in PVP.

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Posted

dont eat salt for breakfast kid

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Posted

dont eat salt for breakfast kid

don't cut yourself on that edge, yungone

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Posted

This is not the kind of game you want to play.

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Posted (edited)

OP, the solution is simple: you need to play a different game, one with equalised gear sets. Maybe GW2?

 

Also, your example is complete BS. Grinding is one of the best ways to make money in the game. There's no way someone could've got to 60 and only had 100m to spend on gear. I made about 750m getting from 58.5 to 59. And there are way more profitable spots than the one I used.

Edited by TarkusBlack
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Posted (edited)

Who remove my memes and why?

Edited by Boreas

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Posted

i bet you'd just as good as this guy but those damn afk fishermen

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Posted (edited)

Let's just keep this simple.

(...)

I read it and I totally agree.

It is sad, that you only get response of those out-of-content-posting,-worldless-lazy-meme-posting,-please-don't-interfere-with-my-domantion-game-experience-kiddies for whom more than two lines are an obstacle for comprehension like letting their eyes and brains(?) causing to bleed.

I am really sorry about that, because you made effort to write in whole sentences, with structure and else. And on top of that: You are right!

At this very moment nobody could conter you with a simple broken-language-"git gud", because you are describing the winner's side, so you are not just about to whine because of losing.

You are playing, because of liking this game, I bet. But the so called challenging part of this PvP-issue is just a matter of... time (afk-time!) - and not a matter of skill, like most of those players still are claiming.

 

I wish, it would change some minds, but it will just end in a sea of memes...

Edited by Sv Cassjo
typo
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Posted

Let's just keep this simple.

We are both level 60. We are both the same class. We enter a duel against each other.

You know the class better than I do.
You have duelled every other class for hundreds of hours.
You know every stunlock combo your class has.
You know how to play around all my cooldowns effectively.
You have many hours of experience playing PVP in other MMO's.

I just started dipping my toes into PVP after making my fortune AFK fishing for the last 12 months straight. This is my first duel.

But you only had 100 million silver to spend on gear and I had 5 billion. Who would win?

Regardless of :

  • How well you know your class
  • How good you are at performing combo's
  • Your knowledge of other classes
  • Your ability to utilize your cooldowns effectively
  • Your reaction time

You cannot defeat me, because I simply outgear you. Because I have made more silver than you, regardless of how I did it (lifeskills, grinding mobs, AFK fishing for 12 months straight), I will win.

Essentially, because I have excelled in a portion of the game that is completely irrelevant to PVP, I am given a huge advantage when I choose to participate in PVP.

Translating the grinding of braindead NPC mobs, or AFK fishing, or farming vegetables, into a 300 to 500% damage increase in PVP combat is completely alienating and ridiculous.

----------------------------------------------

Here are some examples of how translating irrelevant time sinks into ridiculous competitive advantages could be compared to other games/sports/professions etc : 

  • I have hit a tennis ball against a wall 1 000 000 times, while you have won multiple tennis championships. So, for some reason, when we compete in a tennis match, you are given a rusty spoon to hit the ball with, while I have a brand new, top of the line tennis racket.
     
  • I have killed over 1 000 000 bots in practice matches against AI in CS:GO, while you are a in the Global Elite rank. Again, for some reason, when we play a 1v1 match, you are only allowed to use the knife while I start the match with an AK 47.
     
  • I come into work everyday and do nothing. I read Reddit all day. You come in and bust your ass, trying to help the company and do the best job you can. When the time comes for promotion, because I happen to have a better suit than you, I am given the promotion instantly. And a raise. And 10 000 Daum Cash.
     

But look, I know that you have played since release and grinded for untold hours to get 250 AP/300 DP and that those of us who don't have gear should have to follow suit if we want to be competitive.

But my point is not that I want to beat you without putting in effort. I don't feel entitled to 'free wins'.

My point is that you got rewarded for putting effort into activities that are irrelevant to PVP. You shouldn't deal 3 to 5 times more damage in competitive PVP because you had 10 farms pissing out sunflowers for 12 months straight. It doesn't translate.

----------------------------------------------------


Feel free to skip this part if you want, it's just a proposed solution, since I feel it's unfair for me to criticise the game so heavily without a proposed solution.

It's pretty simple : equalize gear in PVP.

Just make everyone have the same AP/DP and stats. 

Here's the biggest counter-argument that people have when this is mentioned : 

"If all gear is equalized in PVP, what is the point of grinding gear? Why would I ever buy better gear?"

The answer is simple. Gear should be the gatekeeper for more rewarding PVE content. You need gear to kill more difficult monsters, who drop better loot. The cycle continues : kill harder monsters, get better treasure.

The treasure could be a million things : cooler looking costumes for your character, pets, mounts, furniture for your house, gear for your horse, stuff for your boat etc.

Here's the other argument :

"But I only have fun in PVP, none of that stuff matters. If gear doesn't matter in PVP, then everything you do to improve gear is pointless to me." 

Well, then, just PVP!

If you honestly can't draw a single drop of enjoyment from anything in BDO except stomping noobs in your 250AP/300DP gear, then...sorry. But you are in the 1% of the playerbase and the game COULD NOT succeed financially if it was balanced around what you, as 1% of the playerbase, desired.

 

So in conclusion...just equalize gear in PVP. Please. So new players don't have to do irrelevant activities to generate silver for 6 months to be competitive in PVP.

it is long but I read you. Please dont be discourage by those low-life IQ 90 gamers who talk trash and spit on your argument. Their petty minds cannot do anything properly  so they use the toxicity they have to belittle you. 

I don't completely agree yet I find the gead gaps are too wide indeed. Perhaps reduce damage in PVP progressively will solve the oneshot and DP revamp will provide healthy PVP. But who know... We do not talk to the devs team like they are working for us.

 

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Posted

The reason why almost everyone wrote one liners is because your answer is simple: this is not the right game for you. Black desert is designed to be a grind game where you need both skill and gear for pvp (and come on nowadays it is pretty easy to get decent pvp gear). If you don't like that, that's fine I heard they are working on an arena with equalized gear and you could also always go rbf. Oh and last not least there are a lot of people who are willing to duel you with shit gear. Like both players use the same unenchanted armor and weapons. But other than that I am afraid that is just how this game is. It's a core design that is not necessarily bad, you just don't like it which I can understand but personally I don't have a problem with it. 

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Posted (edited)

I read it. All of it.

And this is what i gathered.

Subject A spends 5000hr time on the game and has 500 GS

Subject B spends 2000hr time on the game and has 350 GS

OP says Subject B deserves the same gear in PVP as subject A.

No.

 

Thank you for wasting our time with no new ideas posting for the fun of it without doing
any research to see if this was already kicked around like a dead horse. Regurgitating
someone else's ideas while almost the exact same thread is already going on is
not only a waste of our time but discrediting to your opinion/view . Saying something
over and over again doesn't make it any more encouraging or valid.

((((( ECHO CHAMBER )))))

hey look first page of search.

 

 

 

Look at the date on this one ^^^^^

 

 

Edited by Freeway
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Posted (edited)

Let's just keep this simple.

We are both level 60. We are both the same class. We enter a duel against each other.

You know the class better than I do.
You have duelled every other class for hundreds of hours.
You know every stunlock combo your class has.
You know how to play around all my cooldowns effectively.
You have many hours of experience playing PVP in other MMO's.

I just started dipping my toes into PVP after making my fortune AFK fishing for the last 12 months straight. This is my first duel.

But you only had 100 million silver to spend on gear and I had 5 billion. Who would win?

Regardless of :

  • How well you know your class
  • How good you are at performing combo's
  • Your knowledge of other classes
  • Your ability to utilize your cooldowns effectively
  • Your reaction time

You cannot defeat me, because I simply outgear you. Because I have made more silver than you, regardless of how I did it (lifeskills, grinding mobs, AFK fishing for 12 months straight), I will win.

Essentially, because I have excelled in a portion of the game that is completely irrelevant to PVP, I am given a huge advantage when I choose to participate in PVP.

Translating the grinding of braindead NPC mobs, or AFK fishing, or farming vegetables, into a 300 to 500% damage increase in PVP combat is completely alienating and ridiculous.

----------------------------------------------

Here are some examples of how translating irrelevant time sinks into ridiculous competitive advantages could be compared to other games/sports/professions etc : 

  • I have hit a tennis ball against a wall 1 000 000 times, while you have won multiple tennis championships. So, for some reason, when we compete in a tennis match, you are given a rusty spoon to hit the ball with, while I have a brand new, top of the line tennis racket.
     
  • I have killed over 1 000 000 bots in practice matches against AI in CS:GO, while you are a in the Global Elite rank. Again, for some reason, when we play a 1v1 match, you are only allowed to use the knife while I start the match with an AK 47.
     
  • I come into work everyday and do nothing. I read Reddit all day. You come in and bust your ass, trying to help the company and do the best job you can. When the time comes for promotion, because I happen to have a better suit than you, I am given the promotion instantly. And a raise. And 10 000 Daum Cash.
     

But look, I know that you have played since release and grinded for untold hours to get 250 AP/300 DP and that those of us who don't have gear should have to follow suit if we want to be competitive.

But my point is not that I want to beat you without putting in effort. I don't feel entitled to 'free wins'.

My point is that you got rewarded for putting effort into activities that are irrelevant to PVP. You shouldn't deal 3 to 5 times more damage in competitive PVP because you had 10 farms pissing out sunflowers for 12 months straight. It doesn't translate.

----------------------------------------------------


Feel free to skip this part if you want, it's just a proposed solution, since I feel it's unfair for me to criticise the game so heavily without a proposed solution.

It's pretty simple : equalize gear in PVP.

Just make everyone have the same AP/DP and stats. 

Here's the biggest counter-argument that people have when this is mentioned : 

"If all gear is equalized in PVP, what is the point of grinding gear? Why would I ever buy better gear?"

The answer is simple. Gear should be the gatekeeper for more rewarding PVE content. You need gear to kill more difficult monsters, who drop better loot. The cycle continues : kill harder monsters, get better treasure.

The treasure could be a million things : cooler looking costumes for your character, pets, mounts, furniture for your house, gear for your horse, stuff for your boat etc.

Here's the other argument :

"But I only have fun in PVP, none of that stuff matters. If gear doesn't matter in PVP, then everything you do to improve gear is pointless to me." 

Well, then, just PVP!

If you honestly can't draw a single drop of enjoyment from anything in BDO except stomping noobs in your 250AP/300DP gear, then...sorry. But you are in the 1% of the playerbase and the game COULD NOT succeed financially if it was balanced around what you, as 1% of the playerbase, desired.

 

So in conclusion...just equalize gear in PVP. Please. So new players don't have to do irrelevant activities to generate silver for 6 months to be competitive in PVP.

Hello and thank you for you post, however, I believe it is flawed. 

What is the point of an MMO and or RPG from the beginning of time; to get better gear, level, magic, strength and improve yourself ect. from the beginning of time. I understand the argument for equalized ap/dp but who am I to take away from the hard work that someone else put in the game. Most good PvP players are pretty well rounded "Life skillers," you have to be in this game, so you can stay on top or close to the top of the PvP chain. 

I am all for having an equalized gear in a RBF, that would actually be fun, and why we are at it maybe some objective RBF with the equalized gear; but to have it in open world would negate any of the hard work anyone has put in in whatever way they feel they want to play the game. I mainly grind and do a variety of life skills, to no impressive level, but it is enough to get me to the competitive level of full tri with a few tets(accessories aside).

And as for the PvE side of the game; that does not exist, there is no PvE content in this game. Grinding mobs/cooler mobs who cares if they do not drop anything that is going to make you PvP better. 

I do not care about ascetics and I am not the only one, most PvPers do not really care about ascetics, we would wear oven mits if it gave us better stats. So to link getting gear to grind better mobs for clothes or house items is ridiculous, This is an RPG, a MMORPG at that, grind>get stronger>beat people up and be the strongest>get beat by someone who put in more time or played smarter> back to the grind and drawing board> back to a respectable strength--- and repeat until you are done with the game.

If you want better outfits and housing items or things like that go play a pure PvE game with instanced PvP. FFXIV is some of the best PvE ever and apparently (I left the game before this happened) the PvP has gotten better and is pretty much equalized.

I get the frustration of getting just rekt when you feel it is because they just have better gear, but show me someone who does not know their class and I am close in gear score then they will not usually win or even be close even though they may out gear me. Get to the soft cap and then skill starts to come in to play, use all the supposed PvE mechanics to help you gear to that competitive poiint and then have fun PvPing. 

You will never beat the no lifers that play 18 hours a day because they have all the lorals and can actually PvP because they know their class. Those are the 1% and they deserve to be there because they put in the time doing what is necessary, whatever that may be including life skills, to stay at the top.

Edited by Kerry(Ayra)
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Posted

Someone pass me a tldr

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Posted

Or you can just have a better force enchant system.

Problem solved

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Posted

stop whining about gear

 

whine about class balance instead

 

witch/wiz are -----ing ridiculous most disgusting op shit ive ever seen,dont even need gear for it 

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Posted

I don't need PvP, I don´t miss it

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Posted

The funny thing is. I find this one of the most Fair systems when comparing it to other things i think are fair/unfair.

 

Literally the more you play the more you get ahead. Especially if you just buy your gear. That sounds more fair

than IRL to me.

I could spend every waking hour working at a minimum wage job. Wont give me a chance to reach the top lol..

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Posted

Someone pass me a tldr

tl:Dr

Wain wain. This game doesn't have equalised gear which should be the holy bible of all mmo that have pvp and is the only logical thing that should be done because I like it that way screw anyone else they are all wrong and possibly immigrants.

 

Usual stuff.

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Posted

TLDR:

I play since 1 Week and wanna be as strong as one playing 1 Year. *mindless crying*

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Posted

The PvP situation has to do with time/resource investment.

Player A liked PvPing, so the individual spent his time into learning the ropes in PvP and practicing disregarding their gear. Player A invested time and resource in learning the mechanics in a game that involves both factors (skills and gears...also class), and he will fall behind because he lacks adequate gear to keep up with other players high AP/DP higher than him.

Player B, whichever their preference and goal varied. Either it was to play the game and make money or any playing the game casually. They invested their time getting money and gears, rather than learning the PvP ropes. By leveling up skills that would make him earn more silvers. Also, just preparing himself for anything by putting time to get his gears whether it be for future areas to be unlocked or PvP. But he has the upper hand here as he is able to learn the ropes of PvP and do efficiently because he has adequate gears to keep up with others and also capability to learn how to PvP if he spent the same amount of time or less as Player A.

Conclusion: Learning how to PvP is the least thing you should be worried about when you found out how much gears/classes affected PvP. BDO may have been advertised as a game with PvP elements. But as a sandbox game, it caters to PvE more, with players having to do boss hunts or many life skill activities, mob grinding (like many other games have). Just look at all the skills and every single classes' kits, it was made more for PvE than PvP even though they could be applied to both. We are are playing a game where your gears, class, skills matter rather than just skills alone. So someone with just skills can only do so much in PvP and what you need is a mix of everything to progress through the PvP in this game. So before PvPing, prepare yourself beforehand with gears and then learn how to PvP. Sure you'll get trolls at some point but with you geared, all you need is to learn how to PvP.

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Posted

Here are some examples of how translating irrelevant time sinks into ridiculous competitive advantages could be compared to other games/sports/professions etc : 

  • I have hit a tennis ball against a wall 1 000 000 times, while you have won multiple tennis championships. So, for some reason, when we compete in a tennis match, you are given a rusty spoon to hit the ball with, while I have a brand new, top of the line tennis racket.
     
  • I have killed over 1 000 000 bots in practice matches against AI in CS:GO, while you are a in the Global Elite rank. Again, for some reason, when we play a 1v1 match, you are only allowed to use the knife while I start the match with an AK 47.

I understand what your trying to say, but I must point out a flaw in your analogies that hopefully will make you rethink your argument. The reason I got a rusty spoon and you a topline racket is that you got cash to buy that racket from each time you hit the ball against the wall, while I cannot afford anything better then a spoon since I did not hit that wall to get gear/loot.

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Posted

I understand what your trying to say, but I must point out a flaw in your analogies that hopefully will make you rethink your argument. The reason I got a rusty spoon and you a topline racket is that you got cash to buy that racket from each time you hit the ball against the wall, while I cannot afford anything better then a spoon since I did not hit that wall to get gear/loot.

Very good point. 

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Posted

Let's just keep this simple.
 

Proceeds to write a -----ing novel.  Everyone knows theres no balance this is nothing new.

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Posted

Yep, the "pvp" in that game is just ridiculous.

its only made for pver thinking they are a bid deal because they have the biggest e-peen and will win.

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Posted

There is a lot we have to admit. I think is those dude's who made this game that have to admit the pvp do not work 100%, not us, the players. 

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