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Dark Knight Damage

55 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I don't think any F skills apply marks, and i'm pretty sure Shift+F explodes them?

I don't remember, hit 56 then left it for awakening because while the dmg is fine, the movement (and thus MP use) is worse than my awakened Valk (read: bad).

The flow? skill of F (so, F+F) applies mark and Kamasylvian Slash (Shift+LMB) will explode marks. Marking isn't really huge damage n PvE packs so it's not essential to do that imo.

I'm on my phone right now but I'll come back later in the day and post some tooltip screens to show. Honestly the tooltips for DK are a bit unorganized, iirc the explosion bit on Kamasylvian Slash is at the top. 

Edited by Cardiel

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I would like to start by saying Im still fairly new to BDO and Im really not sure of this, which is why I am posting this here. I came to Dark Knight from Sorc, and honestly the tooltip damage on DK skills are similar to the ones on Sorc, or at least from how high I leveled Sorc. Now, I went all out when I went to dark knight, transfered my armor to DK from Sorc, sold my Sorc weapons to fund my DK weapons, etc. I have higher AP on the DK by a decent bit...say 10 or 15 higher then what I had on Sorc. Why is it that my damage feels SOOOO much worse then it did on my Sorc with similar AP and similar tooltip damage? In case this is relevant, my weapons for DK are a Duo Ultimate Yuria Kriegsmesser and a +15 Saiyer Ornamental Knot of Destruction.

wow, not sure what to say.

I am a returning player just starting over for DK and my AP is only 74 at 52 and I am clearing Sausans with no problems with health pool or mana.

I have to think you are investing in the wrong skills or using the wrong rotations.

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The flow? skill of F (so, F+F) applies mark and Kamasylvian Slash (Shift+LMB) will explode marks. Marking isn't really huge damage n PvE packs so it's not essential to do that imo.

I'm on my phone right now but I'll come back later in the day and post some tooltip screens to show. Honestly the tooltips for DK are a bit unorganized, iirc the explosion bit on Kamasylvian Slash is at the top. 

Yeah, you're right.

Does Kama or Corrupt detonate the mark as would 'E'? Or do they have different values, because the damage is pretty pitiful to even waste hitting E or worrying about marking in PvE. I assume the same thing for PvP?

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Posted (edited)

 

Yeah, you're right.

Does Kama or Corrupt detonate the mark as would 'E'? Or do they have different values, because the damage is pretty pitiful to even waste hitting E or worrying about marking in PvE. I assume the same thing for PvP?

As far as I can tell it's all the same detonation, I think it's like 735% x1 damage which is peanuts and more often than not things will die in my Shift+LMB even without the Mark explosion. Buuuut, if you're looking to minmax your damage for pvp or pve even, it's a little extra that could help. 

Edited by Cardiel

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How many skill points do you have, and whats leveled? With 210 AP my Shift + F One shots a pack of mobs at Pirates including Crazy Jacks. because i have it maxed out. and if it doesnt, Shift + Q to finish off because down attack. i'll do Shift + RMB or Down + RMB to mark enemies and then Shift + LMB to annihilate a pack of mobs because its also maxed and does ridiculous damage. you also wanna use Lunacy of Vedir when its up; not just as a 100%. its has 100% Crit and does ridiculous damage. i have my passives maxed out too for the extra accuracy/ap, and health from Infinite Mastery. im sitting on roughly 700 SP atm and trucking through grinding higher, but all ive ever needed is Shift F and Shift Q mostly. Down + LMB is also really strong when its maxed as it gains additional hits every time it levels.

Thanks for the tips, I had a hard time sequencing skills the right way. I now get it. One question, do u get 210 AP with nouver offhand or TRI accessories? I don't like switching gear between chars and with this saiyer offhand (TRI) and DUO acc AP is pretty low  on my DK. So I wonder if I should go for some extra TRI acc or a nouver for this char.  I know nothing about DK :)

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the tips, I had a hard time sequencing skills the right way. I now get it. One question, do u get 210 AP with nouver offhand or TRI accessories? I don't like switching gear between chars and with this saiyer offhand (TRI) and DUO acc AP is pretty low  on my DK. So I wonder if I should go for some extra TRI acc or a nouver for this char.  I know nothing about DK :)

i have a Tri Nouver, between the accuracy passive, and that i have Kzarka i have plenty of accuracy because i use 2x precision gems for the cc penetration, as well as 2 Black magic Viper crystals atm in gloves to finish off the attack speed, and to give me an extra 2 accuracy per gem there, so a total of 8 between gloves/weapon + 7 from passive, outside of Kzarka thats plenty. i also have and use duo accessories. (crescents, witch's, Ogre, and Basi)

Edited by Erela

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i have a Tri Nouver, between the accuracy passive, and that i have Kzarka i have plenty of accuracy because i use 2x precision gems for the cc penetration, as well as 2 Black magic Viper crystals atm in gloves to finish off the attack speed, and to give me an extra 2 accuracy per gem there, so a total of 8 between gloves/weapon + 7 from passive, outside of Kzarka thats plenty. i also have and use duo accessories. (crescents, witch's, Ogre, and Basi)

Excellent, I will go for a Nouver then because the AP my DK has is abysmal and triggers me :) 
Duo accessories I already have on this char, and I consider
Kzarka to be a bit overrated accuracy wise, but will make one if I like PvP with the DK. Thank you.

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Yeah, you're right.

Does Kama or Corrupt detonate the mark as would 'E'? Or do they have different values, because the damage is pretty pitiful to even waste hitting E or worrying about marking in PvE. I assume the same thing for PvP?

The damage is the same if you hit 100% of the hits. If you use E you have 100% accuracy, if you use Kama or Corrupt you use the accuracy of those said skills when detonating, which might result in less damage for the explosion part. 

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i have a Tri Nouver, between the accuracy passive, and that i have Kzarka i have plenty of accuracy because i use 2x precision gems for the cc penetration, as well as 2 Black magic Viper crystals atm in gloves to finish off the attack speed, and to give me an extra 2 accuracy per gem there, so a total of 8 between gloves/weapon + 7 from passive, outside of Kzarka thats plenty. i also have and use duo accessories. (crescents, witch's, Ogre, and Basi)

Got my DK Nouver! My best boss alt is a very talented bidder too... :)

2017-03-07_527110222.thumb.JPG.383dc6b96I just hope I 'll be luckier than usual while upgrading it cause I hate mem frag scrolls.

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DK use combo to deal damage. F>F>space>F>space>F>F>space and repeat until you are out of stamina then shift+F. I didn't play Sorc but compare to my ranger (post awakening) my DK deal more damage and grind faster.

Max out your skills (F and space, i forgot what they call, and shift+F) first and you should see the different.

 

Oh and for your gear, stay with your yuria until you have money for liverto. anything other than liverto or kzarka doesnt make any big difference, dont waste your money on changing to the other one.

lol... just no.

thats not a combo thats just you not knowing the class and spamming something easy.

A real combo would be something like W+F (buff + KD), Shift + LMB for kama slash with down attack damage, (you could throw in V dagger and hidden hit here if you want)then if still not dead Shift + F into wheel for air attack down damage again.

Spamming F>F>Space is not only going to drain your stam and mana your going to grind like shit..... so fcking slow.  Not even a real combo just low CD spam of a person that has no clue how the class flows.  Stop saying that shit.  I've seen people say this in Envy's stream and he has the same reaction "what why?"  Then he does it and comes to the same conclusion everyone else does that knows how to combo.... that its utter shit.

Excellent, I will go for a Nouver then because the AP my DK has is abysmal and triggers me :) 
Duo accessories I already have on this char, and I consider
Kzarka to be a bit overrated accuracy wise, but will make one if I like PvP with the DK. Thank you.

Kutum > Nouver for pve grind.  Hidden damage.  Generally grinding you will see 20%-30% more damage.  Sheet AP isn't everything in this game.

Nouver > Kutum for PvP since Kutum has no hidden player damage, the AP of nouver wins out damage wise.

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It's common to find that classes like Sorcerer have better AP scaling.  It's unfortunate, but that's just the way this game is.  I've been playing Kunoichi, and Kunoichi has literally the worst AP scaling in the entire game. 

People will tell you you're just not playing her right, or you just need to get good, but straight up comparisons easily reveal massive disparities between classes.

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Kutum > Nouver for pve grind.  Hidden damage.  Generally grinding you will see 20%-30% more damage.  Sheet AP isn't everything in this game.
Nouver > Kutum for PvP since Kutum has no hidden player damage, the AP of nouver wins out damage wise.

I respect what you say and appreciate the info, but for me, when it comes to hidden stats, it is very simple. Obvious > Hidden. More > Less.  I know serious players that used to claim (and maybe still do) things like PRI Kzarka > TRI Liverto damage-wise (aka BS). Regarding kutum in PvE I can not understand how the hidden accuracy improves damage so much that it makes it more than the pure AP nouver offhand (and I can't fathom hidden AP > obvious AP). Except if we are talking dark red/purple mobs. It makes no sense for the pure AP offhand to make less damage in any other PvE situation. Even if you are actually correct (and you may very well be) I prefer going with what I can see and calibrate it with accessories or gems if needed. At the very least, doing things my way, I have only myself to blame. :) 

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I respect what you say and appreciate the info, but for me, when it comes to hidden stats, it is very simple. Obvious > Hidden. More > Less.  I know serious players that used to claim (and maybe still do) things like PRI Kzarka > TRI Liverto damage-wise (aka BS). Regarding kutum in PvE I can not understand how the hidden accuracy improves damage so much that it makes it more than the pure AP nouver offhand (and I can't fathom hidden AP > obvious AP). Except if we are talking dark red/purple mobs. It makes no sense for the pure AP offhand to make less damage in any other PvE situation. Even if you are actually correct (and you may very well be) I prefer going with what I can see and calibrate it with accessories or gems if needed. At the very least, doing things my way, I have only myself to blame. :) 

in a game where so much is hidden it would be stupid to ignore that....the tests have been done and kutum was faster during grind sessions

 

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Posted (edited)

I respect what you say and appreciate the info, but for me, when it comes to hidden stats, it is very simple. Obvious > Hidden. More > Less.  I know serious players that used to claim (and maybe still do) things like PRI Kzarka > TRI Liverto damage-wise (aka BS). Regarding kutum in PvE I can not understand how the hidden accuracy improves damage so much that it makes it more than the pure AP nouver offhand (and I can't fathom hidden AP > obvious AP). Except if we are talking dark red/purple mobs. It makes no sense for the pure AP offhand to make less damage in any other PvE situation. Even if you are actually correct (and you may very well be) I prefer going with what I can see and calibrate it with accessories or gems if needed. At the very least, doing things my way, I have only myself to blame. :) 

Suit yourself but people have done the tests with programs that look at hp bars to determine percents.  It's pretty much proven that Kutum is better for pve.  Nouver is your pvp offhand.  The same way its proven that kzarka is better than liverto even though their AP on sheet matches.

Edited by Lemonz

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in a game where so much is hidden it would be stupid to ignore that....the tests have been done and kutum was faster during grind sessions

 

For all classes?

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For all classes?

Yes because it has hidden damage.

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in a game where so much is hidden it would be stupid to ignore that....the tests have been done and kutum was faster during grind sessions

 

I am not ignoring it. But there is a limit to how much I can trust hidden stats and other people's tests on them. So I start with the obvious for me choice. I try it out myself and if it does not satisfy my needs I go and make the other choice, try it out and compare. I play long enough to be able to try lots of things. In this situation I made a TRI Saiyer to start with. I didn't like it a lot. The obvious choice for me was a Nouver (which I did not choose to invest in initially because I wanted to see if I like the class itself first). If I don't one-shot the mobs I expect to with Nouver, then an extra Kutum will not really hurt my financial situation, and it's not like a TRI nouver won't sell if I need to sell it.

Suit yourself but people have done the tests with programs that look at hp bars to determine percents.  It's pretty much proven that Kutum is better for pve.  Nouver is your pvp offhand.  The same way its proven that kzarka is better than liverto even though their AP on sheet matches.

Kzarka is better than Liverto but by a really small margin. Much smaller than what lots of people believed. In a minmaxing situation like PvP I get the usefulness of a Kzarka over Liverto. But the whole thing was blown out of proportion imo.
I went over to reddit and read some tests people did for Kutum vs Nouver. The tests absolutely agree with what you say, Kutum > Nouver for PvE (with possible hidden monster damage over Nouver). Did not find any tests done specifically for DK though. Also I saw no tests with 240+ AP(the point beyond which some believe AP scales exponentially). So, I 'll upgrade my Nouver, go to pirates, see if my clear speed is excellent or if it can be improved (I don't care for extra damage on already dead mobs). I 'll do the same for Gahaz and Jail. If not satisfied I 'll buy a freaking Kutum and keep Nouver just for PvP. Especially if Nouver is better for PvP then for me it all comes down to weather I need to use more skills to kill mobs or not. If I need the same number of skills then makes no diff. If Kutum allows me to use one skill less to kill mobs then I will become a Kutum fanatic. 

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Talks about damage of a class, without proper gear the skill scaling is shit lol

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I am not ignoring it. But there is a limit to how much I can trust hidden stats and other people's tests on them. So I start with the obvious for me choice. I try it out myself and if it does not satisfy my needs I go and make the other choice, try it out and compare. I play long enough to be able to try lots of things. In this situation I made a TRI Saiyer to start with. I didn't like it a lot. The obvious choice for me was a Nouver (which I did not choose to invest in initially because I wanted to see if I like the class itself first). If I don't one-shot the mobs I expect to with Nouver, then an extra Kutum will not really hurt my financial situation, and it's not like a TRI nouver won't sell if I need to sell it.

Kzarka is better than Liverto but by a really small margin. Much smaller than what lots of people believed. In a minmaxing situation like PvP I get the usefulness of a Kzarka over Liverto. But the whole thing was blown out of proportion imo.I went over to reddit and read some tests people did for Kutum vs Nouver. The tests absolutely agree with what you say, Kutum > Nouver for PvE (with possible hidden monster damage over Nouver). Did not find any tests done specifically for DK though. Also I saw no tests with 240+ AP(the point beyond which some believe AP scales exponentially). So, I 'll upgrade my Nouver, go to pirates, see if my clear speed is excellent or if it can be improved (I don't care for extra damage on already dead mobs). I 'll do the same for Gahaz and Jail. If not satisfied I 'll buy a freaking Kutum and keep Nouver just for PvP. Especially if Nouver is better for PvP then for me it all comes down to weather I need to use more skills to kill mobs or not. If I need the same number of skills then makes no diff. If Kutum allows me to use one skill less to kill mobs then I will become a Kutum fanatic. 

Just sharing knowledge of whats BIS for what thats all.

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lol... just no.
thats not a combo thats just you not knowing the class and spamming something easy.

A real combo would be something like W+F (buff + KD), Shift + LMB for kama slash with down attack damage, (you could throw in V dagger and hidden hit here if you want)then if still not dead Shift + F into wheel for air attack down damage again.

Spamming F>F>Space is not only going to drain your stam and mana your going to grind like shit..... so fcking slow.  Not even a real combo just low CD spam of a person that has no clue how the class flows.  Stop saying that shit.  I've seen people say this in Envy's stream and he has the same reaction "what why?"  Then he does it and comes to the same conclusion everyone else does that knows how to combo.... that its utter shit.

 

First of all, we are talking about PVE and most of the mob are immune to cc, idk whats the point to waste time to use some cc skill on mobs. 

W+F>Shift + LMB> Shift + F to clear a group of mob, ok then what? You wait for the 15 sec CD to approach next group of mob? Of course you need some skills with 0 CD to fill the gap between. 

I believe all the people here know that F>F>space is a set skill that helps you to clear mob while your Shift+F is on CD. and you said F+F+space will drain the stamina and mana? it will for stamina, but maybe you dont know you gain mana when you hit mob with space...?

Shift+F, if mob not dead use F+F+space to finish all then Shift+LMB to start the next group of mob then F+F+space, finish them all then repeat. Never use a mana pot, never have any stamina problem to grind at pirate and now im 58. Clear speed almost as fast as my 59 ranger.

If you still call F+F+space is a useless shit, well, maybe you just suck at how to manage your stamina.

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Regarding kutum in PvE I can not understand how the hidden accuracy improves damage so much that it makes it more than the pure AP nouver offhand (and I can't fathom hidden AP > obvious AP).

Well it's not the accuracy from Kutum that make it so. From alot of tests it seems that Kutum has some kind of hidden monster damage.

But yeah, it's really hard to know exactly with all this hidden shit.

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First of all, we are talking about PVE and most of the mob are immune to cc, idk whats the point to waste time to use some cc skill on mobs. 

W+F>Shift + LMB> Shift + F to clear a group of mob, ok then what? You wait for the 15 sec CD to approach next group of mob? Of course you need some skills with 0 CD to fill the gap between. 

I believe all the people here know that F>F>space is a set skill that helps you to clear mob while your Shift+F is on CD. and you said F+F+space will drain the stamina and mana? it will for stamina, but maybe you dont know you gain mana when you hit mob with space...?

Shift+F, if mob not dead use F+F+space to finish all then Shift+LMB to start the next group of mob then F+F+space, finish them all then repeat. Never use a mana pot, never have any stamina problem to grind at pirate and now im 58. Clear speed almost as fast as my 59 ranger.

If you still call F+F+space is a useless shit, well, maybe you just suck at how to manage your stamina.

I am talking about pve o.o.

You must be severely undergeared.  At 57 187 AP I can one shot a pack at bashims with the combo I showed.  F>F>space maxed out doens't do half the damage my combo does.

If you want a filler max Ravage, it alone will wipe a pack Lmb + RMB.  

I have no stamina issues nor mana issues.

 

Id rather use Space after opening with W+F.  But its not even needed really.  F+F is low priority, you are only gimping yourself.  

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See im not sure if im smart or alot of dk players are just retarded, I have 134 AP with a Duo Rosar, saiyer offhand, ancient core set, bahran's rings (bullshit because Im a filthy casual) and sealed magical power earrings (same reason for the rings, but im about to replace both with tungrades, been saving) but even with that and only 220 dp, at 55 I never use potions, ever, dont need to, I can kill the golems at helms and only lose maybe 10% hp by the end of the fight unless i go full retard and dont use the ridiculous amount of block + iframes + super armor built into the greatsword. and I kill sausans in 1-2 hits with just shift q, shift f, shift lmb, shift e, passive, and ff maxed, I literally never die unless i afk for more than 5 minutes with my q up. So I can only assume that (also if you arent maxing your passive, kill yourself, at 55 its +7 acc and an extra +6 effective AP, put the +14% accuracy and +20 ap on your f and you have 100% uptime on that. Short of having a mental handicap, after playing literally every class to 56+ DK is probably the strongest next to wizard/witch as far as pve is concerned. and when awakening comes out i reckon any proficient dk that knows how to weapon swap and fully utilize the class will most likely annihilate every other class considering the 100% crit and the massive acc bonuses built into the class mean you can pretty much stack grapple resistance and laugh at everyone since if you arent a bad, the only thing that can stop you is a grapple.

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See im not sure if im smart or alot of dk players are just retarded, I have 134 AP with a Duo Rosar, saiyer offhand, ancient core set, bahran's rings (bullshit because Im a filthy casual) and sealed magical power earrings (same reason for the rings, but im about to replace both with tungrades, been saving) but even with that and only 220 dp, at 55 I never use potions, ever, dont need to, I can kill the golems at helms and only lose maybe 10% hp by the end of the fight unless i go full retard and dont use the ridiculous amount of block + iframes + super armor built into the greatsword. and I kill sausans in 1-2 hits with just shift q, shift f, shift lmb, shift e, passive, and ff maxed, I literally never die unless i afk for more than 5 minutes with my q up. So I can only assume that (also if you arent maxing your passive, kill yourself, at 55 its +7 acc and an extra +6 effective AP, put the +14% accuracy and +20 ap on your f and you have 100% uptime on that. Short of having a mental handicap, after playing literally every class to 56+ DK is probably the strongest next to wizard/witch as far as pve is concerned. and when awakening comes out i reckon any proficient dk that knows how to weapon swap and fully utilize the class will most likely annihilate every other class considering the 100% crit and the massive acc bonuses built into the class mean you can pretty much stack grapple resistance and laugh at everyone since if you arent a bad, the only thing that can stop you is a grapple.

I don't think it's that you are "smart":

1. "  ...greatsword. and I kill sausa..." please cap "And" or don't start with it. You seem adamant on grammar, with your insane comma hell, so I figured you would care.

2. "I kill sausans in 1-2 hits with just shift q, shift f, shift lmb, shift e" Thats 4 hits...

3. "I kill sausans in 1-2 hits with just shift q, shift f, shift lmb, shift e" You only use four skills? Talk about filthy casual face roll.

4. "unless i afk for more than 5 minutes with my q up" Okay, that is just plain retarded.

5. "that (also if you arent maxing your passive, kill yourself, at 55..." What the hell are you even trying to say? What happened to grammar and "smart".

6. "kill yourself" did you just tell someone to kill themselves because they are not building the way you are?

7. "55 its +7 acc and an extra +6 effective AP, put the +14% accuracy and +20 ap on your f and you have 100% uptime on that" Not even going to try and calculate that and just going to say your wrong, deal with it.

8. "Short of having a mental handicap" Uhhh what do you mean by this? "mental handicap"? How is that different from a regular handicap, except for sounding "smart"er?

9. "Short of having a mental handicap" Funny, because as soon as you get to 56 and realize you are completely out gunned by all the awakenings...

10. "probably the strongest next to wizard/witch as far as pve is concerned" Depends on gear, and have you not played ranger?

11. " i reckon" lol.

12. "weapon swap and fully utilize the class will most likely annihilate every other clas" Uhhhh, the Dark Knight is like 95% awakening after awakening hits. What is this weapon swap you speak of?

13. "most likely annihilate every other class" Yep, just throw out gear and skill factors and everything else that matters and I'm SURE you have a good point.

14. "100% crit" It's not "100% crit" unless it's 100% crit. And not all of the Dark Knight's skills have 100% crit. I can actually only think of one, if we are talking awakening.

15. "massive acc bonuses built into the class" source?

16. "mean you can pretty much stack grapple resistance" How the hell does that mean you can stack grapple? Where did you talk about resistances at all?

17. "laugh at everyone since if you arent a bad" ... Ya....

18. "you can pretty much stack grapple resistance... only thing that can stop you is a grapple" Nice and inconsistent

19. "only thing that can stop you is a grapple" but I thought you "laugh at everyone since if you arent a bad" so why would you get grappled?

 

 

19, reasons why, it is not, because, your, "smart" ,your welcome, mate (like my, comma usage?).

Edited by Nox Demon
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oh ya I agree, but every pve rotation I see has it incorporated, and I don't get it

Honestly I just use F for the mobility in certain situations. 

For starters, DK doesnt have awakening. You might have a warped perception on dmg from other classes that do. Unless you're a wiz/witch you pretty much can't have enough accuracy either. Also if you arent going for liverto/kzarka you're -----ing up. 

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