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Awakening iframes are joke?

90 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I'm not complaining about anything except the kuno's crap awake buff, just know your enemy rather.

I can't agree with that. You complain that it's 20s duration instead of 30s, but notice the cooldown is 2 mins instead of 3 mins. You say the buffs are useless, but it gives:

20AP - this is awesome.

10% attack speed - again awesome, helps with landing combos. Especially if they resist a CC mid combo.

10% accuracy - again can't complain... lose a little less damage to evasion stackers

15% evasion - Added to smoke screen (18%), you can buff more evasion than an evasion offhand. Pretty nice.

16% critical chance - We only have a couple of 100% crit skills, this is a damage increase. 

How is this so bad to you? The witch/wiz buff adds 10% more casting speed, 4% more crit chance, 5% more accuracy, and 15DP plus restores mana, while being 30s duration on a 3m cooldown. Yeah it's a little better but the significant values are there with our buff. My Maehwa would kill to have such a good E buff, she gets 30% crit chance, 20% attack speed, 15% accuracy and that's it. 

It's also ironically fortunate that we have such a bad 100%, because our Z buff is amazing. 30AP for 1 minute is beautiful. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Posted (edited)

I can't agree with that. You complain that it's 20s duration instead of 30s, but notice the cooldown is 2 mins instead of 3 mins. You say the buffs are useless, but it gives:

20AP - this is awesome.

10% attack speed - again awesome, helps with landing combos. Especially if they resist a CC mid combo.

10% accuracy - again can't complain... lose a little less damage to evasion stackers

15% evasion - Added to smoke screen (18%), you can buff more evasion than an evasion offhand. Pretty nice.

16% critical chance - We only have a couple of 100% crit skills, this is a damage increase. 

How is this so bad to you? The witch/wiz buff adds 10% more casting speed, 4% more crit chance, 5% more accuracy, and 15DP plus restores mana, while being 30s duration on a 3m cooldown. Yeah it's a little better but the significant values are there with our buff. My Maehwa would kill to have such a good E buff, she gets 30% crit chance, 20% attack speed, 15% accuracy and that's it. 

It's also ironically fortunate that we have such a bad 100%, because our Z buff is amazing. 30AP for 1 minute is beautiful. 

15% evasion - Added to smoke screen (18%), you can buff more evasion than an evasion offhand. Pretty nice. Last I checked that doesn't stack with smokescreen so unless they ninja changed that in a patch somewhere I don't believe you as there's only 1 evasion+ icon when you use both, not 2 unlike the warrior who can stack +85 DP from 3 shield icon buffs by itself, with an evasion offhand your acc or your damage output goes to shit for kuno in particular having your damage multipliers be so low already.

10% acc, don't see any actual differences with this. 10% vs. +10 acc is a big differencce and with base acc per class being different and hidden it's as null as it gets, if you got bhegs + an RCE or two and a decent alch stone it's pointless as far as i care considering there's maehwas running around running pure AP with 230-250 and no acc except a bhegs and wiping hordes of people's faces in the floor with no problem.

16% critical chance - We only have a couple of 100% crit skills, this is a damage increase. <- useless as most of your skills get 80-100% crit by the time you're 60-61 with crit stat alone and with or without skill awakening buff, which would be replaced into precision gems in glove instead ergo making the acc+ buff less impactful or more useful if you're assuming everyone is running pure evasion(which they're not) and more useful than crit chance which is why valors in general are cheaper than precis.
Lethal spin 75% at 60, lunar dash 100 100, wheel of wrath 100. The ONLY skill that benefits from this greatly is chain crash honestly in a practical applicable sense. I'd rather lose the 16% crit and get 16% all res instead or 10% ignore res or something.

you'd rather have 20s and 2min? Lol I'd rather have 30s and 3min cd. That's not an argument of it being better, 20s is like nothing when each attack is 2-3 seconds long for Kuno. REALISTICALLY you'd probably be getting 2-5 attacks in tops unless your opponent is a braindead individual or has zero resist and doesn't know how to rotate SA. Tamer getting absorb pet(+10AP, +60crit, +15%MS, +20%ASPD) with Z buff for a whole minute on both is going godlevels for a good 60s with a 5min CD which is fine because it has a duration to be useful not taper off after either being a) CC'ed, or b) scoping for a window of opportunity taking forever with the kuno.

Compared to the musa buff 20 AP and +50 RES and perma super armor with zero CD on a frequently spammed attack that does good damage the kuno buff is underwhelming.

The only great thing about Kuno is the super long CC combo she has at disposal and the big AoE each one has  and is great against desync or just annoying targets to capture that is hard to miss due to a mass # of hits not because of a lack/bonus of ACC. Damage output however feels nowhere close to a number of other classes and is MAYBE only on par or equal footing with the buffs on.
 

Edited by KyrandisX

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Posted (edited)

15% evasion - Added to smoke screen (18%), you can buff more evasion than an evasion offhand. Pretty nice. Last I checked that doesn't stack with smokescreen so unless they ninja changed that in a patch somewhere I don't believe you as there's only 1 evasion+ icon when you use both, not 2 unlike the warrior who can stack +85 DP from 3 shield icon buffs by itself, with an evasion offhand your acc or your damage output goes to shit for kuno in particular having your damage multipliers be so low already.

10% acc, don't see any actual differences with this. 10% vs. +10 acc is a big differencce and with base acc per class being different and hidden it's as null as it gets, if you got bhegs + an RCE or two and a decent alch stone it's pointless as far as i care considering there's maehwas running around running pure AP with 230-250 and no acc except a bhegs and wiping hordes of people's faces in the floor with no problem.

16% critical chance - We only have a couple of 100% crit skills, this is a damage increase. <- useless as most of your skills get 80-100% crit by the time you're 60-61 with crit stat alone and with or without skill awakening buff, which would be replaced into precision gems in glove instead ergo making the acc+ buff less impactful or more useful if you're assuming everyone is running pure evasion(which they're not) and more useful than crit chance which is why valors in general are cheaper than precis.
Lethal spin 75% at 60, lunar dash 100 100, wheel of wrath 100. The ONLY skill that benefits from this greatly is chain crash honestly in a practical applicable sense. I'd rather lose the 16% crit and get 16% all res instead or 10% ignore res or something.

you'd rather have 20s and 2min? Lol I'd rather have 30s and 3min cd. That's not an argument of it being better, 20s is like nothing when each attack is 2-3 seconds long for Kuno. REALISTICALLY you'd probably be getting 2-5 attacks in tops unless your opponent is a braindead individual or has zero resist and doesn't know how to rotate SA. Tamer getting absorb pet(+10AP, +60crit, +15%MS, +20%ASPD) with Z buff for a whole minute on both is going godlevels for a good 60s with a 5min CD which is fine because it has a duration to be useful not taper off after either being a) CC'ed, or b) scoping for a window of opportunity taking forever with the kuno.

Compared to the musa buff 20 AP and +50 RES and perma super armor with zero CD on a frequently spammed attack that does good damage the kuno buff is underwhelming.

The only great thing about Kuno is the super long CC combo she has at disposal and the big AoE each one has  and is great against desync or just annoying targets to capture that is hard to miss due to a mass # of hits not because of a lack/bonus of ACC. Damage output however feels nowhere close to a number of other classes and is MAYBE only on par or equal footing with the buffs on.
 

You're right, the two evasion buffs don't stack. I figured it would work like the warrior DP buffs instead of like Add-on buffs. 

Everything I've seen as far as accuracy goes is that 10 accuracy = 10% accuracy, just different nomenclature. 

Maybe you only choose to use 3 awakened skills, but I also use Delighted Blast, Lunatic Discus, Shadow Stomp, Tendon Cutter, and Black Moonlight that all benefit from extra crit chance. 

The Musa buff is not saying that it gives Crosscut permanent super armor... It's saying that Crosscut costs no WP, and it says the exact same thing that every other E buff does AFAIK, which is "super armor while using the skill" - that's referencing the E buff itself, not crosscut. 

Also yes I like having the buff up more often. My usual opener in node wars/GvG is to wait until stealth is about to run out, Z buff if it's up, E buff, then stealth and go in to do a full attack rotation - a single target combo if possible or if not a super armor combo on multiples. A shorter cooldown means I can do it more often. 

Now you're just whining about Kuno. Not getting into that on the DK forum. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Posted (edited)

You're right, the two evasion buffs don't stack. I figured it would work like the warrior DP buffs instead of like Add-on buffs. 

Everything I've seen as far as accuracy goes is that 10 accuracy = 10% accuracy, just different nomenclature. 

Maybe you only choose to use 3 awakened skills, but I also use Delighted Blast, Lunatic Discus, Shadow Stomp, Tendon Cutter, and Black Moonlight that all benefit from extra crit chance. 

The Musa buff is not saying that it gives Crosscut permanent super armor... It's saying that Crosscut costs no WP, and it says the exact same thing that every other E buff does AFAIK, which is "super armor while using the skill" - that's referencing the E buff itself, not crosscut. 

Also yes I like having the buff up more often. My usual opener in node wars/GvG is to wait until stealth is about to run out, Z buff if it's up, E buff, then stealth and go in to do a full attack rotation - a single target combo if possible or if not a super armor combo on multiples. A shorter cooldown means I can do it more often. 

Now you're just whining about Kuno. Not getting into that on the DK forum. 

You brought it up not me. I made a simple statement that you decided to expand.
Delighted blast, pretty unreliable, discus rarely ever get tagged by it or see it be used if anything to only extend a cc i sure wouldn't use it at beginning or end of an attack string and ultimately very slow with only a forward G. Shadow stomp loss of damage and only good as a connector or positioning unless opponent is KD'ed/floating, tendon cutter cc net no SA dangerous if you're using your E buff, black moonlight weak unless it's downattack or cc net.

Read Cross Cut description. I don't think you know what you're talking about.
lol.thumb.jpg.4b85b60649180ab87d792edcaf

Edited by KyrandisX

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Posted (edited)

You brought it up not me. I made a simple statement that you decided to expand.
Delighted blast, pretty unreliable, discus rarely ever get tagged by it or see it be used if anything to only extend a cc i sure wouldn't use it at beginning or end of an attack string and ultimately very slow with only a forward G. Shadow stomp loss of damage and only good as a connector or positioning unless opponent is KD'ed/floating, tendon cutter cc net no SA dangerous if you're using your E buff, black moonlight weak unless it's downattack or cc net.

Read Cross Cut description. I don't think you know what you're talking about.
 

I brought up you saying how terrible you think Kuno's awakening buff is because I don't agree with you. You started whining about how bad you think the class is which has no relevance. You're missing out if you aren't using Delighted Blast or Discus - and all of the mainhand skills I mentioned except for tendon cutter are used in combos during CC, in most cases before a grab. Shadow Stomp is not a loss of damage when you're already in shortsword. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Posted (edited)

I don't think that you can make a single answer without being salty or without offend people

And now i ask you, have you tried the Dark Knight class? Have you leveled it? Or are you just complaining about something that you haven't even tried?

 

 

Neither it is about sorcs, so kindly go back to your own cave, oh sorry - I ment subforum, instead of spreading salt on every single subform except your own.

Your argumentation and overall whining about something that's not even in-game is just pathethic. Judging stuff based on tooltips is even worse. Did you even play DK yourself? Or are you making assumptions and spreading crap based on few vid's you've seen and gossips you've heard from "friends"?

I've heard ninjas has many superarmors on their skills! I mean check all those tooltips mejt - it's a shame tho that most of them work for like miliseconds in the moment You wouldn't even need them (seething sword animation?)

Come back with your salty salt when the thing is actually in game, as we might as well end up with something similar to blader / plum release so you could laugh your ass off spamming your air combos 1shoting stuff.

I'm running out of tissues I could share with you at this rate.

I am lvl 58 on my DK in korea.

YES. I have tryed it. 

Have you!? Or are you arguing with me about something that you haven't???

Did anyone mention that the DK iframe is incomplete and is actually in 3 phases?

They go super armor - iframe - super armor and only are invulnerable that moment they are clouds.

Just thought I would throw that out there, if you screw up the timing as a DK you'll still eat a huge chunk of damage being pretty much the squishiest class in the game.

Super armor is dmg reduction. How does this make it more squishy than ranger which doesn't have that super armor for example?

And yes, i did mention that.

 

"Go back to your class subforum hurr durr durrr, we're incapable of proving that our class doesn't offer too much".

Edited by Chun-Chun

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Posted (edited)

 

I am lvl 58 on my DK in korea.

YES. I have tryed it. 

Have you!? Or are you arguing with me about something that you haven't???

Super armor is dmg reduction. How does this make it more squishy than ranger which doesn't have that super armor for example?

And yes, i did mention that.

 

"Go back to your class subforum hurr durr durrr, we're incapable of proving that our class doesn't offer too much".

I allready did make some points that got ignored if you ignore everything else but flaming well.

And ofc no one will prove anything. The only thing you can say about dk is that he is not too strong depented on the reference frame.

If you take the strong classes as reference frame he is not too strong.

If you take the weak classes as reference frame he is too strong and so half of the other classes too.

And if you say sorc, bersi, warri, witch are not as strong then dk, yes than this thread is about sorc, bersi, warri, witch, because you need to define the reference frame to judge DK.

And you cant make a judgement without reference frame.

 

Edited by Nischana
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Posted

No, what stupid people don't know is that the amount of stamina required on musa dash is 50. Out of a pool of 2k, that's 40 dashes. Another things stupid people don't know is that sorc iframe requires 250 stamina, aka 8. Another thing that stupid people don't know is that sorc main atack requires 300 stamina, aka 6 atacks. What another stupid people don't know is that we gotta use both atacks and iframe, aka ... do the count and tell me who has more iframes, sorc or DK?

 

Also, what other stupid ppl don't know is that the downtime between iframes for DK is around 1 second. Much cooldowns, such wow.

 

Ofc, we are talking about other stupid people, not you, as you of course know all these things as proven in your post... oh wait...

 

Btw, let me guess, you rerolled to dk, right?

musa stamina runs out runs put VERY quickly believe me and wjthout dash we are dead unlike sorc with all the frontal blocks 

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Posted

Great, another sonic-like class...

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Posted

 

I am lvl 58 on my DK in korea.

YES. I have tryed it. 

Have you!? Or are you arguing with me about something that you haven't???

I might have some experience, but i also bring proofs usually

2017-03-24_657134.JPG

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Posted

What dos having a DK in KR to do with anything other then trying to use a killer agument like "i know i have played DK and thus i know its totaly way more OP then Sorc", it is a bullshit argument and proves nothing other then you subjektiv opinion is that DK "feels" stronger. This could have many reasons and DK is more OP is only one of many.

The Videos that started the Thread dont prove that DK is op too, since against the most classes in 1v1 he fights kinda even, if anything its more a agument that DK is balanced if you use the other strong classes as reference Frame to determin if dk is to strong.

Saying look, DK has 3 i-frames on low cd with no cost dos not do anything here too, why ? Because all classes have diffrent skills and you can only judge the full kit.Its like saying Ninja has two graps, and since DK has non dk must be bad and ninja OP, its a pointless argument that takes one point of the class that is "strong" and compare it. Pointless.

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Posted

 

I am lvl 58 on my DK in korea.

YES. I have tryed it. 

Have you!? Or are you arguing with me about something that you haven't???

Super armor is dmg reduction. How does this make it more squishy than ranger which doesn't have that super armor for example?

And yes, i did mention that.

 

"Go back to your class subforum hurr durr durrr, we're incapable of proving that our class doesn't offer too much".

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/5p4c0b/super_armor_damage_reduction_sometimes/

 

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Posted (edited)

well there is a rumor going around that dk takes 1,5 times the DMG then other classes. And that would make him a one hit even for low AP evasion Builds.

In the next week or something i plan to make some test based around DK defensiv scaling to see if he takes more DMG then other classes and how he scales with evasion.

Maybe i post my results in the Forum.

Edited by Nischana

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Posted

Ninja is insanely OP with his evasion passive(high innate evasion, +7 evasion on passive, +18% evasion from skill buff alone, holysh1t if that's not OP then I don't know what it is). He is meant to be an evasion tank not assasin. I play in JP server and here Ninja is considered the braindead sh1t class, any monkey can PK ppl with Ninja and get away with it cuz Ninja's evasion so high if u stack with full evasive gear with buffs no class can kill u in one combo. Ninja is not considered to be challenging to play at all it's one of the easiest class to play, in fact ranger is actually the hardest class to play and those who PVP alot admits it.

Assasin is supposed to be squishy not tanky, Ninja is the tankiest class in the game(due to evasion of course) and he has high damage so that alone breaks the game.

And no, u can't combo off seed of disaster, the skill has no CC.(or very weak CC)

and here i was astray not sure what was right or wrong. Gotcha.

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Posted

You obviously never played sorc.

While I'll admit I've only taken my sorc to 56 just to learn how to fight against it, my friend is one of the strongest sorcs on the NA server and I've dueled with him hundreds of times. He can almost indefinitely switch between his i-frames with rushing crow and alternate into dark flame when he needs to recover stamina. For any class without a grab it's pretty difficult to counter. However most sorcs are bad and don't know how to play their class. It's easy to tell a bad sorc because they fight in scythe most of the time. The best sorcs rarely use scythe unless they've gotten a CC first. Scythe may be one of the highest damage kits in the game, but amulet is where all your survivability comes from.

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