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suggestion List of ideas to make the Training skill more rewarding


19 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hello,

I’ve been training horses for a while and I’ve noticed that this life skill is a bit lacking. After going through the forums and other online sites, I’ve come to realise that many of us trainers have the same issue with this skill: not very rewarding to level it up. 

Once we got our dream horse, what really keeps us going? Pony passion. But beyond that, any normal gamer needs a little bit more eventually.

Here is a list of ideas I gathered from the forums and also some of my own for your consideration, which could be applied together or individually.

Please note that all numbers and levels are suggestions only (detailed information included in spoiler blocks).

--------------------------------------------------------------------

    1.      Make Training level allow you to tame different tiers of horses in the wild.

Note: consider camels to be tier 3 and miniature elephants to be tier 6 which could be added to the wild.

·        Donkeys: no requirement (could be added to the wild)

·        Tier 1: Beginner 5 (currently must be Beginner 5 to use lasso)

·        Tier 2: Apprentice 5

·        Tier 3: Skilled 5

·        Tier 5: Professional 5

·        Tier 6: Artisan 5

·        Tier 7: Master 5

 

2.      Make Training level allow you to breed and train (skills) different tiers of horses.

         Note: in regard of skills, we could alternatively have Training level requirements for using skills, with all horses starting with all the skills (similar to how sailing works). This would however not work well with the courser system, but the idea is out there.

·        Tier 1: No requirement

·        Tier 2: Beginner 5

·        Tier 3: Beginner 10

·        Tier 4: Apprentice 5

·        Tier 5: Apprentice 10

·        Tier 7: Skilled 5

·        Tier 8: Skilled 10

·        Tier 9: Professional 5 (to evolve)

3.      When reaching a high level of mastery in Training skill, could raise the breeding rate multiplier for a better chance in getting higher tier horses.

·        Artisan 10: raise multiplier by 1

·        Master 30: raise multiplier by 1

·        Guru 20: raise multiplier by 1

4.      Allow trainers to level up other people’s horses and train their skills depending on the mount’s tier and Training level for money.

Note: consider camel to be tier 3 and miniature elephant to be tier 6.

·        Tier 1: Beginner 10

·        Tier 2: Apprentice 5

·        Tier 3: Apprentice 10

·        Tier 4: Skilled 5

·        Tier 5: Skilled 10

·        Tier 7: Professional 5

·        Tier 8: Professional 10

·        Tier 9: Artisan 5 (TBD)

 

How this could work

From the stable window, access a new menu similar to the breeding market. Candidates for training must register their mounts and choose if they want levelling or skill training. In the case of skill training they will need to choose which skill they want trained.

The trainer would work similarly to a Training Coupon, as they would render the horse unavailable during the training and the trainer won’t be able to play while training the horse.

If the trainer interrupts the training before reaching maximum level or mastery, the trainer gets paid the difference for the work done and the horse becomes available for another trainer to train it. If the owner cancels the training, the horse becomes unavailable for trainer and the trainer gets paid for the work done and a small bonus.

 

Levelling speed

The levelling speed would correspond to the horse speed without gear while riding solo. The Training level, buffs and outfit or costume bonuses of the trainer will also apply. Horse skills training will be influenced as usual by the trainer’s Training skill level. Horse food is covered by the stable and the cost of the training so no additional material is required.

5.      Make horses more expensive on the market depending on learned skills level of completion. Also applies to other mounts.

6.      Make horses in general more valuable on the market (especially for T7 and T8).

7.      Allow users to preorder specific horses (tier, style, skills) on the market and/or sell to specific buyers.

8.   Add a bidding system to the horse marketplace.

Have a system where the trainer registering a horse on the market can choose to put the horse for sell immediately or sell through a bidding war.

Selling immediately
When using the sell immediately, the horse will sell same as it is currently sold (announcement and sell 15 minutes later on open market). Please note that the value pack should be applied.

Bidding war
The bidding war would be similar to a real live auction, where people choose how far they are willing to go to win the bid (unlike the marketplace bidding system) When choosing bidding war, the horse will be announced and will be available for bidding 15 minutes later. The bidding period would last 15 minutes, during which people can actually outbid each other until the 15 minute period is expired. Once the bidding period is over, the person that won with the highest bid or the last to bid will be the proud owner of a thoroughbred and the trainer will get his or her earnings. Taxes can be applied same as marketplace, with value pack reduction when applicable.
Restrictions: If we are worried about gold sellers inflating the bids here are afew restrictions that could be used to limit it:

  • Must be of a certain tier (T5 to T8);
  • Limit the max bid depending on the tier (ex.: T5= 50 mil., T6=100 mil., T7=250 mil., T8=500 mil.)
  • Only horses with the Courser status;
  • Horse must be level 30.

9.      Increased chance to learn horse skills when levelling horses by 1% every 10 level of Training. Also applies to other mounts. Alternatively, have Training level requirement for using skills, with all horses would start with all the skills (see #2).

Training level

Increased chance (%)

Total increased chance (%)

Beginner 10

1

1

Apprentice 10

1

2

Skilled 10

1

3

Professional 10

1

4

Artisan 10

1

5

Master 10

1

6

Master 20

1

7

Master 30

1

8

Guru 10

1

9

Guru 20

1

10

10.      Currently leveling Training is slower than most other life skills. Here are a few ideas to increase it more easily.

Note: could consider camel as being tier 3 and miniature elephant as tier 6.

a.      Award Training XP for leveling horses depending on their tiers (higher tier higher XP);

b.   Award a small amount of Training XP per mount XP tick;

c.      Add Training guild buff to increase the Training speed;

d.      Award Training XP for taming horses depending on their tiers and level (higher tier higher XP);

e.      Award Training XP for leveling and mastering mount skills;

f.      Award Training XP for racing;

g.        Award more free Training XP buffs and weekend event Training XP buffs;

h.       Add Training skill quests and dailies;

i.    Receive Training XP for training other people's horses (see idea 4).

11.      Give horse XP bonuses depending on Training level of 0.1% per level (i.e. Beginner 10 would give 1% increase while Artisan 10 would have a total of 5% increase). Also applies to other mounts.

12.      Reduce time between horse XP ticks by 1 sec. every 10 levels of Training skill. Also applies to other mounts.

Training level

 

Added time reduction (seconds)

 

Total time reduction (seconds)

 

Beginner 10

 

-1

 

-1

 

Apprentice 10

 

-1

 

-2

 

Skilled 10

 

-1

 

-3

 

Professional 10

 

-1

 

-4

 

Artisan 10

 

-1

 

-5

 

Master 10

 

-1

 

-6

 

Master 20

 

-1

 

-7

 

Master 30

 

-1

 

-8

 

Guru 10

 

-1

 

-9

 

Guru 20

-1

 

-10

 

    13.   Must be a certain level in Training to ride specific tiers OR create a new Riding skill.

Note: consider camel to be tier 3 and miniature elephant to be tier 6.

Cons

After discussion this idea was deemed maybe not suitable to be implemented. Here are a few reasons why:

  • The first reason being that it could be troublesome to implement so late in the game with so many people that already own different tiers of mounts, which they could no longer use. This goes for both options.

       Fix: one way to fix it would be to give players the appropriate level to mount the highest tier they own.

  • Another reason is that, in using Option 1, players that can't mount certain tiers would have no reason to buy them from trainers, but would instead be forced to become trainers themselves in order to acquire higher level of mounts thus making the training business bad for current trainers, making everyone less happy.

       Fix: if Option 2 is used this problem does not occur, but we would still need to give players the appropriate level to this new skill to mount the highest tier they own. 

Option 1: Training level to ride specific tiers (not recommended)

·        Donkeys: no requirement

·        Tier 1: Beginner 5

·        Tier 2: Beginner 5

·        Tier 3: Beginner 10

·        Tier 4: Beginner 10

·        Tier 5: Apprentice 5

·        Tier 6: Apprentice 5

·        Tier 7: Apprentice 10

·        Tier 8: Apprentice 10

·        Tier 9: Skilled 5

Options 2: Riding skill idea (recommended, but not necessary)

The skill should increase with the number of steps you do on horseback and when racing. It should also be a lot easier than raising Training.

  Note: although it is a nice idea it is not necessary at this point. The idea that not just anyone can use the highest tiers of horse would be a nice touch though.

  Note: consider camel to be tier 3 and miniature elephant to be tier 6.

a.      Riding skill requirement to ride specific tiers

·        Donkeys: no requirement

·        Tier 1: Beginner 5

·        Tier 2: Beginner 10

·        Tier 3: Apprentice 5

·        Tier 4: Apprentice 10

·        Tier 5: Skilled 5

·        Tier 6: Skilled 10

·        Tier 7: Professional 5

·        Tier 8: Professional 10

·        Tier 9: Artisan 5 (TBD)

 

b.      Riding skill level could give provide a mount buff which would be cumulative (any mounts).

Training level

 

Speed (%)

 

Accel. (%)

 

Turn (%)

 

Brake (%)

 

Beginner 5

 

 

 

0.5

 

0.5

 

Beginner 10

 

0.5

 

0.5

 

 

 

Apprentice 5

 

 

 

0.5

 

0.5

 

Apprentice 10

 

0.5

 

0.5

 

 

 

Skilled 5

 

 

 

0.5

 

0.5

 

Skilled 10

 

0.5

 

0.5

 

 

 

Professional 5

 

 

 

0.5

 

0.5

 

Professional 10

 

0.5

 

0.5

 

 

 

Artisan 5

 

 

 

1

 

1

 

Artisan 10

 

1

 

1

 

 

 

Master 10

 

1

 

1

 

1

 

1

 

Master 20

 

1

 

1

 

1

 

1

 

Master 30

 

1

 

1

 

1

 

1

 

Guru 10

2

 

2

 

2

 

2

Guru 20

2

 

2

 

2

 

2

Total added stat

10

10

10

10

 

Forum references

·        Horse Breeding / Findings MegaThread - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/46803-horse-breeding-findings-megathread/

·        Need More Benefits to Raising the Training Skill - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/84218-need-more-benefits-to-raising-the-training-skill/

·        Training XP for Leveling Up Horse Skills - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/128059-training-xp-for-leveling-up-horse-skills/

·        Horse leveling/training improvement (no need for loop running) - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/65116-horse-levelingtraining-improvement-no-need-for-loop-running/

·        Modify Horse Training Skill - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/129904-modify-horse-training-skill/

·        The training skill needs some love - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/128713-the-training-skill-needs-some-love/

·        Benefices to level up training skill - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/69579-benefics-to-level-up-training-skill/

·      Tier 4 and Tier 5 horses in the wild on NA servers - 

       http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/116963-tier-4-and-tier-5-horses-in-the-wild-on-na-servers/ 

·        The Horses Market - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/135324-the-horses-market/ 

·        Guild skill - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/135556-guild-skill/ 

·        How to horse....or not to horse. - https://beta-forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/how-to-horse-or-not-to-horse.237/ 

·        Training Life Skill - http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/137068-training-life-skill/ 

·        Suggestion Bid for horses(t7+) - https://beta-forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/suggestion-bid-for-horses-t7.485/#post-3275 

Thanks!

Edited by Lady Minuit
Updated idea 2 and 8.
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Posted

Ya, it would be nice if "training" a horse skill actually leveled your training.... /smacks forehead

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Posted

"10.   Must be a certain level in Training to ride specific tiers"

While I don't have much to add to your suggestions, this one raises a slight issue.

Wouldn't be a good idea to restrict what tier horses people can ride imho, and I think it's also due to how it's implementation would work at this point. Considering not nearly everyone has levels in training, yet they own horses up to T8 because they had the money... Basically their horses would become useless for a time if such a change was suddenly dropped on us. You'd be forcing people to level up a lifeskill they might not be interested in and didn't previously need, just so they can use / continue using what more skilled horse trainers are trying to sell, aka high tier horses.

I mean I understand, there are already some restrictions in place for life skills like not being able to use certain attire and items and so on if your levels are too low, but nothing is stopping you from buying the final crafting products of someone else's work. And by putting a restriction on riding horses no matter how small, it'd basically be like making it so that to benefit from foods you bought from the marketplace you'd have to level up your cooking somewhat first - if that makes any sense.

So... if not many players would be up to the task of mundanely lvling a lifeskill just to ride the better horses... who would you sell all those high tier horses then? Mainly other horse breeders? But they don't really need your horses since they're also trying to sell theirs, aren't they? Tho I guess there's always also the option to just sell your horse to imperial delivery. Anyways... What I'm getting at is, while making lvl restrictions for riding might not be the end of the world, all I can think of is how it would affect the horse market, and using horses in general. Ofcourse this might just be one of those things where you'd have to see the system in action first before knowing how bad it'd be, but I simply can't side with this specific suggestion.

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Posted (edited)

"10.   Must be a certain level in Training to ride specific tiers"

While I don't have much to add to your suggestions, this one raises a slight issue.

Wouldn't be a good idea to restrict what tier horses people can ride imho, and I think it's also due to how it's implementation would work at this point. Considering not nearly everyone has levels in training, yet they own horses up to T8 because they had the money... Basically their horses would become useless for a time if such a change was suddenly dropped on us. You'd be forcing people to level up a lifeskill they might not be interested in and didn't previously need, just so they can use / continue using what more skilled horse trainers are trying to sell, aka high tier horses.

I mean I understand, there are already some restrictions in place for life skills like not being able to use certain attire and items and so on if your levels are too low, but nothing is stopping you from buying the final crafting products of someone else's work. And by putting a restriction on riding horses no matter how small, it'd basically be like making it so that to benefit from foods you bought from the marketplace you'd have to level up your cooking somewhat first - if that makes any sense.

So... if not many players would be up to the task of mundanely lvling a lifeskill just to ride the better horses... who would you sell all those high tier horses then? Mainly other horse breeders? But they don't really need your horses since they're also trying to sell theirs, aren't they? Tho I guess there's always also the option to just sell your horse to imperial delivery. Anyways... What I'm getting at is, while making lvl restrictions for riding might not be the end of the world, all I can think of is how it would affect the horse market, and using horses in general. Ofcourse this might just be one of those things where you'd have to see the system in action first before knowing how bad it'd be, but I simply can't side with this specific suggestion.

Yea it's a good point!

I thought about this as well, so that's why I had suggested fairly low requirements, but maybe to leave this one out would be best. Also I don't really feel like Training skill = Riding skill so that was just a thought.

Like you mention, if everyone is forced to become a trainer it would mean less business for us in the long run too, so on that point it's bad too! Although I think there isn't many available horses on the market as it is so we definetly more people doing it.

But I did make an alternate suggestion to have a Riding skill requirement instead of Training skill which made more sense, but do represent more work too I guess, and to implement it so far in the game might be challenging. And we still have the same issue with people that already own certain tiers of horses and wouldn't be able to use it anymore.  

One way to fix it would be to automatically give the appropriate requirement for the highest tier owned by someone. For example, if I own a T3 I would automatically get the minimum requirement upon implementation, but then will have to work on my Riding skill if I get a T4 later on. This fix works with the Training skill too, but then do we really want this?

I guess that is the question. 

Anyway you raise very good points.. Thanks for your feedback :)

Edited by Lady Minuit
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Posted

Thank you for putting this all together, it is a nice collection of suggestions.

In regards to the training level requirement to ride certain tiers making existing horses inaccessible to people, it could instead work such that specific training levels are required to train/level the different tiers of horse (rather than required to ride). That way everyone can continue to use their T7s/T8s even if they dont have training levels, they just wont be able to level them themselves. That would also pair nicely with the suggestion about allowing trainers to train/level other people's horses for money.

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Posted

Yea it's a good point!

I thought about this as well, so that's why I had suggested fairly low requirements, but maybe to leave this one out would be best. Also I don't really feel like Training skill = Riding skill so that was just a thought.

Like you mention, if everyone is forced to become a trainer it would mean less business for us in the long run too, so on that point it's bad too! Although I think there isn't many available horses on the market as it is so we definetly more people doing it.

But I did make an alternate suggestion to have a Riding skill requirement instead of Training skill which made more sense, but do represent more work too I guess, and to implement it so far in the game might be challenging. And we still have the same issue with people that already own certain tiers of horses and wouldn't be able to use it anymore.  

One way to fix it would be to automatically give the appropriate requirement for the highest tier owned by someone. For example, if I own a T3 I would automatically get the minimum requirement upon implementation, but then will have to work on my Riding skill if I get a T4 later on. This fix works with the Training skill too, but then do we really want this?

I guess that is the question. 

Anyway you raise very good points.. Thanks for your feedback :)

Just no unnecessary restrictions on riding itself, don't think it needs to be made more complicated than that. But that's honestly the only thing on the list I couldn't get behind.

 

Thank you for putting this all together, it is a nice collection of suggestions.

In regards to the training level requirement to ride certain tiers making existing horses inaccessible to people, it could instead work such that specific training levels are required to train/level the different tiers of horse (rather than required to ride). That way everyone can continue to use their T7s/T8s even if they dont have training levels, they just wont be able to level them themselves. That would also pair nicely with the suggestion about allowing trainers to train/level other people's horses for money.

"2.      Make Training level allow you to breed and train different tiers of horses."

I think that's what OP already suggested, but yeah, I could accept it working like that. Would also make it so you couldn't just skip to breeding high tier horses as someone with 0 levels in training. Just like with other professions, you'd have to advance through steps and not be a master straight away.

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Posted

Very nice suggestions! I am a horse trainer. The skill is very hard to raise and absolutely useless. Would love to see it become something great to have.

I didn't care to raise gathering and processing but had to if I wanted a sailboat. I think the idea of ppl having to raise the skill to ride a t8 or 9 would be very cool. 

Just a quick reply. But I'll get more added later 😄 Maybe mention in the breeding mega thread this post so they can make comments if you haven't already 

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Posted

Bad idea, its good for no-life players and afk players.

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I didn't care to raise gathering and processing but had to if I wanted a sailboat. I think the idea of ppl having to raise the skill to ride a t8 or 9 would be very cool. 

I wouldn't go confusing the lack of materials in the marketplace as the game forcing you to do something in it's core - the lack of materials like logs and rough stones are it's own problem. Besides, the demand for those materials is high because of the lack of them. Forcing you to have a high training skill just to ride a horse instead would diminish demand, meaning most high tier horses would likely remain owned by horse breeders, because they'd be the ones able to ride them. And what's the point of having several high tier horses as a player that mostly afks for money if there aren't enough people buying your stuff?

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Posted

Just no unnecessary restrictions on riding itself, don't think it needs to be made more complicated than that. But that's honestly the only thing on the list I couldn't get behind.

I don't mind not getting this one. Honestly that was just an idea but probably my least favorite.

"2.      Make Training level allow you to breed and train different tiers of horses."

I think that's what OP already suggested, but yeah, I could accept it working like that. Would also make it so you couldn't just skip to breeding high tier horses as someone with 0 levels in training. Just like with other professions, you'd have to advance through steps and not be a master straight away.

Yes that is the idea, thanks for clarifying. It would make the idea of training horses for others more relevant and also make the value of mastered and leveled horses on the market even more tangible.

 

Very nice suggestions! I am a horse trainer. The skill is very hard to raise and absolutely useless. Would love to see it become something great to have.

I didn't care to raise gathering and processing but had to if I wanted a sailboat. I think the idea of ppl having to raise the skill to ride a t8 or 9 would be very cool. 

Just a quick reply. But I'll get more added later 😄 Maybe mention in the breeding mega thread this post so they can make comments if you haven't already 

Thanks for the support. I look forward to your ideas. I did mention the mega thread in the references at the end. 

Regarding the Training and riding requirements depending on the tier, there was some good points against it from Luxina, which I think make sense. I'm leaving the suggestion there though in case someone wishes to add to it or improve on it.

Bad idea, its good for no-life players and afk players.

Thanks for your comment. There are many other activities for no-lifers and afk players, most of them more rewarding. My point is exactly this. AFK time should be as worthwhile doing Training as other activities.

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I always thought it was odd that the Training EXP was only awarded when the horse gains a level. One character could ride the horse to 99% of the level then another character only does the 1% to get the horse level and all the Training EXP. In this instance, the character who spent the least amount of time riding got all the Training EXP and the one who spent the most amount of time riding got zero Training EXP. It would make more sense to me to award Training EXP with each tick of horse EXP.

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Posted (edited)

I always thought it was odd that the Training EXP was only awarded when the horse gains a level. One character could ride the horse to 99% of the level then another character only does the 1% to get the horse level and all the Training EXP. In this instance, the character who spent the least amount of time riding got all the Training EXP and the one who spent the most amount of time riding got zero Training EXP. It would make more sense to me to award Training EXP with each tick of horse EXP.

Yes that is a good idea. As it is now, you would advance more quickly by training only donkeys as opposed to T7 because they require so much more time to level, which really don't make sense.

I'll update my post to include your point when I get home (a bit more annoying to do on phone!).

BTW welcome to the forum and if you're new welcome to the game. :)

---------------------------------------

Edit: just to let everyone know I have updated #7 and #10 to reflect the discussion.

Thank you everyone for your feedback. :)

Edited by Lady Minuit

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Posted

---------------------------------------

Added a suggestion 11 based on someone's post I saw today (see references).

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Posted

Sorry for bumping my own thread, but just updated with a couple of ideas (6, 7) and moves some other ideas around.

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Posted

What if horse training worked like the sailing skill does. All the horses would already have all the skills but you could only use them if you were a certain level in Training. 

I doubt they would go for this though because it would negate skill change coupons and coursers, but it would be nice

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Posted

Yes, please. Currently training as a life skill is just useless. Completly.

Any change to this system, especially some of these listed in the thread, would be greatly appreciated. It would make training more rewarding!

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Posted (edited)

What if horse training worked like the sailing skill does. All the horses would already have all the skills but you could only use them if you were a certain level in Training. 

I doubt they would go for this though because it would negate skill change coupons and coursers, but it would be nice

That is a good idea. I'm sure this would be possible even with the courser issue... if they want it. It's good to put the idea out there anyway, so that gives them options. I've added it to the list regardless (mentionned at #2 and #8).

Thanks for all the feedback  :)

Edited by Lady Minuit

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Posted

I think they don't care about suggestions forum.

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