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Devs, you need to fix Tamer approach SA/iframe because...

69 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Have you played DK? Forward Dash uses resource. 

I mained Tamer. They are very much about gear. Some of the best tamers in my guild perform amazingly in Node Wars because of how much CC they get and they're super bursty. Stop -----ing that the class is broken. It sounds more like you don't have the gear/skill to be able to actually play her correctly.

Also: Tamer has Forward Dash+Double side Dash, and that super dash that can keep up with Witch/Wiz double teleport. Maybe you're just not building skills correctly?

Edited by CrowX2M

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Posted

Im a lvl 60 tamer and i can say that @WastedJoker is right.

tamer is way far behind all the new meta op classes when it comes to pvp.

yes its good in 1v1 but that's all it is and with the new classes like dk they aren't even gonna be that good in 1v1.

a lot of the SA and iframes don't work nothing in shortsword stance even has SA

Tamer needs a buff to stay current, the skill required to beat people of similar gear is insane compared to a lot of the meta 2-3 button classes.

Ninja needs a buff too they are an awesome class but the skill gap is insane on it compared to a lot of other meta classes.

Pretty much all shortsword users are behind the times at this stage of the game.

100-0 people is not valid any class with okay gear can 100-0 people.

It seems like 90% of the game is wizard warrior ranger or dk now.

The reason is because they are op like crazy compared to other classes.

I rarely ever see a tamer in node wars or the game at all maybe 1 at best the whole time besides me.

Its sad cuz its a good class but its just not as powerful straight up.

same with ninja.

 

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Posted

 

Tamer needs a buff to stay current, the skill required to beat people of similar gear is insane compared to a lot of the meta 2-3 button classes.

 

 

Or you know they could actually nerf the OP heroes(I don't think anyone disagrees with that Wizards needs a nerf for example).

Just because Tamers are not as OP as a wizards does not make them weak or underpowered, right now there's a few classes that's just blatantly OP that really could need a nerf, and the solution is not to buff every single other class but rather fix the problem which is the OP classes.

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Posted (edited)

There are no statistics because it is blatantly obvious when using a Tamer. When performing certain skills the SA doesn't cover the full length of the move OR it activates with a small delay meaning you get easily knocked out of the move by long multi-hit cc skills from other classes.

Name another non-shortsword class that gets kicked out of guilds or can't join guilds because they know they are a weak link in nodewars.

Wrong, it's actually lag/desync, which is in itself a problem that affects many other classes, but it dos affect seiges a lot due to it.

You can clearly tell when you rotate your super armor moves with LBP which should create a chain of super armor, but sometimes it get CCed while other times it doesn't.

If you actually see your battle from your opponent's screen you'll actually see the moment it breaks the super armor chain.

DO something simple  like  LBD ->LBP->Moonlight->leaves->LBD  This in normal circumstance  for a tamer is 99.9% super armor, and un-CC able in arena, but in a heavy node war seige, magically we get hit.

I can grumble about many skills like the echo pierce hit box, to the grab errors, to moonlight hit handshake that all gets wonky under heavy lag, but every class goes crying over the river (zerkers silently complain about grab problems in node wars as well)

 The exceptions are actually the tanky classes due to well...read the thread on warrior SA.

It's established that short sword users do bad under lag. That's something you have to get over.

You're diverging to a whole separate and issue, away from tamer issues.

Tamers having enough moves to almost completely rotate SA/invul/block is in itself fairly good as far as small scale goes. This is why a future void nerf while it hurts seiges a bit, isn't ultimately the biggest deal.

Edited by Kuu
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Posted

It's just some classes being waaay over the top and bugfixes/QoL changes for the one who are bottom tier mostly.

Still you should post these things in your class sub, it's not like they give more attention because it's in general, it just creates confusion. 

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Posted

...we're going to be facing an absolute rush of DKs who can jump backwards faster & traverse sideways better than most classes can dash forward which doesn't use stamina/mana, while dealing damage, magic damage, at range with massive potless health and mana sustain:

 

 

Are you actually going to address the issues with Tamers? Ever?

 

 

I appreciate you might not have an idea how to fix the issues Tamers face because you thought making a squishy melee character with a complex pet & sub-par SA/iframes was a good idea so, while I guess we need to accept that we're ruled out in the long-term for end-game pvp content, you could at least do us a favour and make us top dog for pve? Give us triple pull, massively boost roaring pve damage, increase heilangs pve damage, increase our add-on sustains skills by 100%, delete Heilang: Howling and instead make our Awakening passive an ap/evasion buff when Heilang is summoned etc.

The backlash against witchards was bad enough. I'm starting to think you're making each new class massively OP in order to drive inventory/LT/outfit purchases....oh, wait, the penny dropped :/

 

 

 

 

Tamer is enough Opness right now sir. Get lost!

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Posted

Im a lvl 60 tamer and i can say that @WastedJoker is right.

tamer is way far behind all the new meta op classes when it comes to pvp.

yes its good in 1v1 but that's all it is and with the new classes like dk they aren't even gonna be that good in 1v1.

a lot of the SA and iframes don't work nothing in shortsword stance even has SA

Tamer needs a buff to stay current, the skill required to beat people of similar gear is insane compared to a lot of the meta 2-3 button classes.

Ninja needs a buff too they are an awesome class but the skill gap is insane on it compared to a lot of other meta classes.

Pretty much all shortsword users are behind the times at this stage of the game.

100-0 people is not valid any class with okay gear can 100-0 people.

It seems like 90% of the game is wizard warrior ranger or dk now.

The reason is because they are op like crazy compared to other classes.

I rarely ever see a tamer in node wars or the game at all maybe 1 at best the whole time besides me.

Its sad cuz its a good class but its just not as powerful straight up.

same with ninja.

 

Part of the reason for that is that a lot of the top guilds right after server merge were kicking shortsword users from the guild (Tamer/Kuno/Ninja) so a lot of people switched to Zerkers. I don't think this is exactly an issue of Tamer being underpowered but of two other classes being overpowered.
 

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Posted

Ahahahaha.

Tamer player (easily one of the best 1v1 classes properly played and geared) posts whine thread about needing buffs to compete with DK, using 1v1 video showing awakened DK being absolutely terrible against ninja. Wow. Woooooow.

There's a part of the video where the ninja catches the DK and pretty much 100-0. That is what powerful PvP classes do. Kiting someone for an hour doing chip damage is not a very convincing case in support of your argument, dude.

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Posted (edited)

Have you played DK? Forward Dash uses resource. 
 

Are you that bad ? alternate forward dash & side dash ( ofc rotate at 90° your camera to keep dash in the same direction ) and you have a absolute resourceless dash with superarmor -> iframe -> superarmor  every single second.

Since i play DK and have the necessary lvl - SP, i only move around that way.

 

Definitely the most OP "dash" from the game.

 

And, i dont even speak about the other skills to have your MP back in a heartblink, Tamer absolutely DO NOT have such "op" way to have MP back that fast ( outside MP pot usage )

 

Edited by woots

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Posted

Are you that bad ? alternate forward dash & side dash ( rotate your camera to keep dash in the same direction ) and you have a absolute resourceless dash with superarmor -> iframe -> superarmor  every single second.

Definitely the most OP "dash" from the game.

 

Side Dash replenishes resource, so yes, but OP stated that it doesn't cost resource, which is incorrect. You going to chase me around the forums now because I asked you a question on another thread? lol

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Posted (edited)

Side Dash replenishes resource, so yes, but OP stated that it doesn't cost resource, which is incorrect. You going to chase me around the forums now because I asked you a question on another thread? lol

It doesnt using the 2 dash. So its true.

 

What ? chasing you ? who are you ? oO

EDIT : oh yeah you are the one in the maint thread, sorry, didnt payed attention.

Edited by woots

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Posted (edited)

If doesnt using the 2 dash. So its true.

It's not a dash, rather a teleport. only shift-W can be consider a "dash"

It's the tamer/Valk evasion (inferior)

It runs on CDs though shorter CD then tamer valk version. So regular and ultimate for generalization sake.

Buuuttt... this is not telling the whole story.

DK -> shift A-D only (no S) Shift-W is a separate move, and can't be chained

Tamer Shift-ADS / Valk shift-ADS =superior

Tamer valk shift-ADS has animation cancel properties

(LBP tamer dash is a full on high animation canceler, which is SS rank in terms of offensive and defensive utility)

Basically DK dash is the weakest version of all the variations, but is given passive buffs in return for that inferiority.

In hindsight, you should compare DK evasions to sorcs teleports.

 

Edited by Kuu

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Posted (edited)

It's not a dash, rather a teleport. only shift-W can be consider a "dash"

"Teleport" ( because character isnt visible during the skill usage ) is only a visual effect, but in the end you still have some time between the start and the arrival point, so as "shortcut" its not incorrect to also call that a dash..

It's the tamer/Valk evasion (inferior)

Actualy its superior because its 1sec cd ( using both ), its totaly free ( when using both alternatively ), its better because it use mana, and the DK have tons of easy way to respendish MP in a sec, while you cant respendish stamina

And the max distance of the forward dash is pretty big.

 

Valk skill, so far i remember ( only have a lvl 30 valk didnt played it a lot ) have a quite long CD

 

Buuuttt... this is not telling the whole story.

DK -> shift A-D only (no S) Shift-W is a separate move, and can't be chained

yeah you dont have "s" but who care when you have a shit a - d giving you back MP WHILE having superarmor - iframe - superarmor, and even an additional free one every 5sec is you really need to ( also free, because it also give you back a little little MP )

 

So forward dash, as separate one turn that even more OP, because that the only one using MP, and the lateral dash give bach more MP than the forward one use.

Tamer Shift-ADS / Valk shift-ADS =superior

Tamer dash iframe have issues, its well knowed since a while, it use stam => inferior

Valk => "long" CD

Tamer valk shift-ADS has animation cancel properties

ok, only real advantage.

(LBP tamer dash is a full on high animation canceler, which is SS rank in terms of offensive and defensive utility)

That's an advantage, but still grant you WAY less protection, because only super armor.

Basically DK dash is the weakest version of all the variations, but is given passive buffs in return for that inferiority.

DK dash still is freaking OP = free, iframe, long distance, you just dont have proper ani cancel that's all. But on a protection purpose, that's INSANE.

( not also saying that the DK have one active block + 2 others skills with frontal block + a superarmor skill.. xDxDxDxDxD )

Edited by woots

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Posted (edited)

"Teleport" ( because character isnt visible during the skill usage ) is only a visual effect, but in the end you still have some time between the start and the arrival point, si as shortcut you still can call that a dash.

Actualy its superior because its 1sec cd ( using both ), its totaly free ( when using both alternatively ), its better because it use mana, and the DK have tons of easy way to respendish MP in a sec, while you cant respendish stamina

And the max distance of the forward dash is pretty big.

 

Valk skill, so far i remember ( only have a lvl 30 valk didnt played it a lot ) have a quite long CD

 

yeah you dont have "s" but who care when you have a shit a - d giving you back MP WHILE having superarmor - iframe - superarmor, and even an additional free one every 5sec is you really need to ( also free, because it also give you back a little little MP )

 

So forward dash, as separate one turn that even more OP, because that the only one using MP, and the lateral dash give bach more MP than the forward one use.

 

=> you have a dash every sec.

 

Tamer dash iframe have issues, its well knowed since a while, it use stam => inferior

Valk => "long" CD

ok, maybe the only real advantage.

That's an advantage, but still grant you WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY less protection, because only super armor.

 

DK dash still is freaking OP = free, iframe, long distance, you just dont have proper ani cancel that's all. But on a protection purpose, that's INSANE.

doesn't sound like you serious PvP... Especially if you don't know the relevance of shift-S. Doubly so on a block class!!!

The devs have a lot of practice in you know at these balance tweaks.

It's not OP or insane or anything if almost every other class can do it and better.

Again it's akin to sorc teleports. Sure it's strong but as people get familiar and then into the awakening world.. it's just a Dodge.

There are so many weaknesses when people actually play beyond a basic rolf spam level.

I haven't spent that much time put into DK theory, but IMO it's fairly n00by friendly, but only that.

If you think shift-w on DK is sooo much better, I should do the tamer old fashion fly by dash grab on you a few dozen times.

Edited by Kuu

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Posted

doesn't sound like you serious PvP...

PVP ? in BDO 2dDTasl.png2dDTasl.png2dDTasl.png2dDTasl.png

Just talking about pvp in BDO isnt serious.

It's not OP or insane or anything if almost every other class can do it and better.

Sorry, i dont have resourceless dash on tamer with not broken iframe.

Even plum dash have a 4sec CD for iframe, otherwise its superarmor only, and its still not free

Sorc => stam => not free

 

You can repeat "its not insane nor OP and other class can do it better" as much as you want, i doubt it would change the flat fact the game give you.

Again it's akin to sorc teleports.

Sorc teleport use stam : you cant use the dash till the end of the days like you can with DK.

Sure it's strong but as people get familiar and then into the awakening world.. it's just a Dodge.

There are so many weaknesses when people actually play beyond a basic rolf spam level.

I haven't spent that much time put into DK theory, but IMO it's fairly n00by friendly, but only that.

Then what ? still doesnt change the OPness of their dash, whatever if its noob friendly of whatever else you want call that.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

PVP ? in BDO 2dDTasl.png2dDTasl.png2dDTasl.png2dDTasl.png

Just talking about pvp in BDO isnt serious.

Sorry, i dont have resourceless dash on tamer with not broken iframe.

Even plum dash have a 4sec CD for iframe, otherwise its superarmor only, and its still not free

Sorc => stam => not free

Sorcs change to awakening for that and part of their move set. That why they can chain teleports.

Tamer LBP is a monster in what it can do since it is a canceled so you can chain and adjust it inevery free form way.

This is why DK is given such a generous CD. It has its fatal weaknesses as well once the training wheels are off.

Edited by Kuu

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Posted

Sorcs change to awakening for that and part of their move set. That why they can chain teleports.

Tamer LBP is a monster in what it can do since it is a canceled so you can chain and adjust it inevery free form way.

This is why DK is given such a generous CD. It has its fatal weaknesses as well once the training wheels are off.

DK dont have awakening, so only speak about "non awakening" = you cant spam with sorc.

I dont care you can anicancel with LBP, its still doesnt change what i've said : only superarmor.

 

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Posted

"you need to fix Tamer approach SA/iframe" 

Try being a Ninja and having one SA, a crappy block, and 3 partial-FG skills to defend yourself with. One of those partials wliterally lasts like 0.3 seconds, one being near useless in mainstream pvp, and the one being okay to mediocre. You can complain then. Git gud.

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Posted

The i frame rolling that you get hit right in the middle of all the time? And so many awaken skills have SA on them..when are you getting cc'd by heilang? 

Go pvp in rbf or siege as a tamer or shut it ;3

idiot tamers kept saying when u ever get cc by heilang.

try again, that crap got nerfed in kr.

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Posted

ok, only real advantage.

oh my god someone just dismissed animation cancel with barely a four word mention

Do you even play?

Played sorc since launch and DK to 50 thus far, sorc dodge is the better dodge in every way aside from sustainability, btw. Not commenting on overall class balance, just the night crow vs DK dodges specifically

 

Freaking cry more, seriously...

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oh my god someone just dismissed animation cancel with barely a four word mention

Are you drunk or something ? i said the tamer ani cancel is the "only" advantage it have. That considering the current issue with broken iframe.

Do you even play?

Ofc i dont play, what's BDO ? is that a new game or something, never heard about.

Played sorc since launch and DK to 50 thus far, sorc dodge is the better dodge in every way aside from sustainability, btw. Not commenting on overall class balance, just the night crow vs DK dodges specifically

 

Freaking cry more, seriously...

 

I still dont agree.  but whatever, that's your preference.

On paper DK dodge is way more OP because mana regen = you never ran out. Unless stam that isnt infinite.

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Posted (edited)

Are you drunk or something ? i said the tamer ani cancel is the "only" advantage it have. That considering the current issue with broken iframe.

Ofc i dont play, what's BDO ? is that a new game or something, never heard about.

 

I still dont agree.  but whatever, that's your preference.

On paper DK dodge is way more OP because mana regen = you never ran out. Unless stam that isnt infinite.

yes, you dismissed the MASSIVELY IMPORTANT TO PVP animation cancel before going on about what amounts to -----all because tamers are still godlike 1v1 classes when played well.

I mean, look, I'm doing my best to act surprised here since it's the polite thing to do but this is the same damn thinking that we had to deal with back in the day when sorc haters who couldn't play their way out of a paper bag were like OMG iFrames have no mana cost so they are INFINITE SPAMMABLE!!!!! Just this time around instead of ignoring the stamina cost the haters of the day have decided to ignore the other downsides of the ability and focus on the one positive aspect that they've decided to get triggered by.

 

Asymmetrical balance, man. Give me a grapple and then we'll talk, otherwise gtfo

 

 

Edited by lolfail

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Posted

all because tamers are still godlike 1v1 classes when played well.

To be fair, end game pvp in bdo is 1st CC wins for every single class...Unless you consider <200 AP end game.

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Posted (edited)

To be fair, end game pvp in bdo is 1st CC wins for every single class...Unless you consider <200 AP end game.

Yes the current meta in BDO "high end" pvp is Super armor, and animation cancel (of said super armor) + AoE scale.

While skill plays a large part of it...

As long as you keep your super armor/block up without showing as much openings as possible(aka animation cancel) you will likely win if your skills and instinct back it up.

DK is the best non-awakened class, and the worse awakened(because it has none) but don't think for a second it's supreme just because it has some n00b friendly tricks.

And this is why certain classes are consider preferable "Seige" classes. As people who seige know, it boils down to 2 things:

Defending a choke point, and breaking through a choke point.

Yep it's that simple. Almost all node wars comes down to those 2 points, after you calculate the number/gears game.

Edited by Kuu

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Posted (edited)

yes, you dismissed the MASSIVELY IMPORTANT TO PVP animation cancel before going on about what amounts to -----all because tamers are still godlike 1v1 classes when played well.

I mean, look, I'm doing my best to act surprised here since it's the polite thing to do but this is the same damn thinking that we had to deal with back in the day when sorc haters who couldn't play their way out of a paper bag were like OMG iFrames have no mana cost so they are INFINITE SPAMMABLE!!!!! Just this time around instead of ignoring the stamina cost the haters of the day have decided to ignore the other downsides of the ability and focus on the one positive aspect that they've decided to get triggered by.

I didnt dismissed, since so far, i spoke about iframe. And still dont change DK dodge far more op than any other class.

As for tamer, they still have SO much issue, that have to be fixed, whatever what ppl might say about "blblblb tamer godlike blblbllb"

 

pvp ? sorry, but you cant be taken as someone serious talking about that fake pvp for pver in the first place xD 

 

Sorc use stam ? DK use MP only for forward, other give MP back = free iframe; Guess you cant do better than that even if you dont have ani cancel associated.

Asymmetrical Broken balance, man. [random stuff]

fixed

Edited by woots

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