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A Viable Way to Buy Pearls with Loyalty

18 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

************************************************************ U P D A T E D ************************************************************

- Added Sections in the text

- Added 4 Scenarios for the implementation of the idea.

- Added 5 more Answer / Questions in the Answer/ Question Section for further clarification - balancing.

- Added some clarifications in the existing Answer/ Question Section.

For all those who have read the original post the added lines will have different font color so that you can easily find the new additions without having to read all the text again.

*** As always your feedback, opinions, comments and your suggestions contribute into fixing parameters of this System that I may have not think of them myself. I will keep updated this System as long as you provide me with your ideas, opinions, thoughts so that we can build a final and worthy to have Exchanging System.

*******************************************************************************************************************************************

Searching for a topic like that, I found this one. But I thought because the topic was old enough, to create another one giving the proper attention to the point today.

Buying Pearls with Loyalty!

I was wondering why they did not implement such a mechanism in their game and if there is a way to do it so that nobody could blame them for P2W aspects? 

The most obvious answer would be "because they want to force players to give in all those convenience items for real money". Nobody can blame them for that. Their game, their Rules.

But what If there was something that, would let the Devs to obtain money as well, and at the same time it would give a chance to the players to buy something with the time they invest in the game? Then all those who believe that BDO has P2W aspects would reconsider their point of view.

How can we implement a fair exchanging process? I explain my idea below. It may need some tweaks here and there but I present the general picture:

=================================================   B L A C K       C O I N   =================================================

- Introduce a new item, called e.g. Black Coin (BC from now on).

1 x Black Coin = X Loyalty Points = 500 Pearls, which means that the BC could be bought from the Pearl store with real money or the Loyalty store with Loyalty.

 Where you see X = Number of Loyalty that will be discussed in the next Section.

- The buyer would have 2 options:

--- Option A: He can consume it with one of his characters and he will earn 500 Pearls in his account.

--- Option B: He can sell it in the Marketplace.

- The buyer who will purchase it through the Marketplace will not be able to sell it again. He must consume it no matter what.

- The BC will not have lower or maximum Marketplace price. It will have steady value 1 Black Coin = 5.000.000 Silvers. 

=========================================   POSSIBLE SCENARIOS SECTION   =========================================

First of all, in order for the BC idea to succeed, we must rework the Loyalty Rewarding System. Before we do that, we must clear one basic thing: A single BC, must be priced at 500 Pearls no matter what. This is because we need a cheaper alternative in order to obtain Pearl Items AND selling each BC for 5 Euros we do not break the current balance of pricing. So, we already have the 1 x Black Coin = 500 Pearls = 5 Euros. Now that we cleared that up we must build the Loyalty System. Here are 4 possible Scenarios for the BDO Team to choose:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCENARIO A ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 x Black Coin = 1.000 Loyalty Points = 500 Pearls = 5 Euros

- A player can earn Loyalty Points every day by logging into the game and choosing some extra quests from the Black Spirit (maybe a quest-line). Those quests will involve ALL the aspects of the game. That means there will be several quest types: Gathering, Fishing, Crafting, Cooking, Use Workers, Kill 100 Skeletons, 100 Trees, 100 Humanoids wherever you can find them etc. These quests must be 10. Each quest will reward the player with 10 Loyalty Points in completion. Completing all quests, the player will unlock 100 maximum Loyalty Points for the current day.

- In this Scenario, a player at the end of the month will receive 3.000 Loyalty Points in total. He can exchange them for 3 x BCs. Because the amount of Pearls that is being given in this Scenario, is very generous, the BDO Team can "spice" things up with the quests. They can add enough daily quests of these types, and they can rotate them daily (different quest-lines). They can also have some group quests in there as Node Wars or PvP based in order to receive all the possible amount of Loyalty Points.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCENARIO B ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 x Black Coin = 1.500 Loyalty Points = 500 Pearls = 5 Euros

- A player can earn Loyalty Points every day by logging into the game and choosing some extra quests from the Black Spirit (maybe a quest-line). Those quests will involve ALL the aspects of the game. That means there will be several quest types: Gathering, Fishing, Crafting, Cooking, Use Workers, Kill 100 Skeletons, 100 Trees, 100 Humanoids wherever you can find them etc. These quests must be 10 and the player need to complete 5 of them, whichever he likes. Each quest will reward the player with 20 Loyalty Points in completion. Completing all quests, the player will unlock 100 maximum Loyalty Points for the current day.

- In this Scenario, a player at the end of the month will receive 3.000 Loyalty Points in total. He can exchange them for 2 x BCs. The amount of Pearls that is being given in this Scenario, is mediocre generous. As before they can add enough daily quests of these types, and they can rotate them daily (different quest-lines).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCENARIO C ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 x Black Coin = 2.000 Loyalty Points = 500 Pearls = 5 Euros

- A player can earn Loyalty Points every day by logging into the game and choosing to do his daily activities (guild quests, farming, crafting etc). After a period of time e.g. 4 - 5 hours the player will receive his 100 Loyalty Points.

- In this Scenario, a player at the end of the month will receive 3.000 Loyalty Points in total. He can exchange them for 1 x BC and he will have 1.000 Loyalty Points in his account. This Scenario, is from the easiest ones to implement, as it changes too little to the current state from programming side for the Developers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCENARIO D ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 x Black Coin = 3.000 Loyalty Points = 500 Pearls = 5 Euros

- A player can earn Loyalty Points every day by logging into the game and choosing to do his daily activities (guild quests, farming, crafting etc). The player will earn 100 Loyalty Points instantly when he will log in into the game as he does today.

- In this Scenario, a player at the end of the month will receive 3.000 Loyalty Points in total. He can exchange them for 1 x BC. This Scenario, is the easiest and the fastest for the Developers to implement from the others, as it changes nothing to the current state.

Later on , The BDO Team can give some extra e.g 50 Loyalty Points if the players participate in community activities or Bosses Battles or in Guild Wars as an event for e.g. a week or for a weekend!

========================================   QUESTIONS - ANSWERS SECTION   =========================================

What do we gain with the existence of Black Coins?

Everyone will have the same chances to buy the Pearl Items they want through playing the game. Those who do not have time, they can always buy Black Coins with real money. You cannot afford them? Play the game daily and earn Loyalty Points. At some point you will be able to buy the staff you need.

What will happen with all the other Loyalty Currencies now that we have Black Coins?

They can simple delete those Items that do not have a meaning to be there e.g. 1 day Value Pack with 1400 Loyalty Points. With Black Coins, you can buy everything there is in the Pearl Shop. You only need time to play the game.

What about the players who will log in only for the "quick grab" of the Loyalty Points and log out again?

I believe that an MMO title should not be considered by the players as a second real life job. It should be fun, a chance to meet new people and together you should try to achieve higher goals. But in this case, I want to protect the game as well and that is why I recommend above 4 possible scenarios for the Loyalty Points System to work. The Devs can choose one of them or they can mix and match. The Scenarios follow one simple Rule: The easiest the Loyalty Points being earned, the more expensive the BC will be to purchase with Loyalty Points,

So many quests to do in Scenarios A and B. Why do we need them?

I thought of the quest factor because a) the game is based on doing quests. What is more rewarding than a few Loyalty Points in your adventures? b) I was thinking a way to eliminate the "AFK fishermen" who they will stay online for the Loyalty grab.

Why in Scenarios C and D there are no quests? Doesn't this make it a "quick grab" for the players?

If they change the way Loyalty is being given to us, the "quick grab" will transform into a "simple grab". In Scenario C, indeed there are no quests but the Loyalty will be given to us after we stay online for a significant period of time (4-5 hours). Even if they give us the Loyalty as they do at the moment (with the first daily log in), the active players will have 2.000 Loyalty Points after 20 days. They can exchange those 2.000 Loyalty Points for 1 BC. That being said, they will have 1 BC monthly and 1.000 stored up for the next month. They can buy another 1-2 from the Marketplace (there will be a monthly limit for those who they want to buy them with Silver - check the question below So then, the players will be able to buy infinite BCs in the Marketplace as long as they have the Silver?), or they can buy as many as their weekly limit in Pearl Items with real money allow them. The same goes for the Scenario D.
 
Black Coins, really? That means there is no need to buy ever again from the Pearl Shop.

Not true. Using my example of exchange in Scenario A (1000 Loyalty = 500 Pearls), in order to buy e.g. a Value Pack with only Loyalty Points you will need one full month to log in and play the game for at least 4-5 hours daily. Then you can buy the Value Pack BUT you will not be able to buy anything else. No pet, no outfit, no inventory space, no increased weight limit, nothing else. Remember that you have to log in EVERY SINGLE DAY for a significant period of time (doing quests or just being online) in order to collect Loyalty Points. If you lose even 1 day, you will not be able to do that in a month. That being said, you can earn a chance to play the game as those who actually pay for the monthly subscription with real money, but if you want other goodies as well, you would have to either buy them with real money, buy them through the Marketplace or stop using your Loyalty Points for the Value Pack and collect them slowly.

What happens with the other Pearl Shop Items? That means we will never see them in the Marketplace again?

Adjustments to the selling prices should be made so the actually exchange rate will be 100 Pearls = 1 Euro = 1.000.000 Silver. For example, a Value Pack currently costs 9.828.000 Silver. It will cost 15.000.000 Silver. The same for the Outfits, Pets etc. So, for 15 Euros the seller, may choose between 3 BCs, 1 Value Pack, 1 BC and 1 Pet etc, to provide into the Marketplace. But even if they decide to add BCs feature without adjustments (faster implementation with lower programming costs), it will be sold in Marketplace at (1 x Value Pack / 3 =) 3.276.000 Silvers 

What about the tax policy? How will it apply to the BC?

The choice will be made from the Devs. They can follow the same rules for all the other Pearl items that being sold to the Marketplace at the moment but I strongly recommend to bring the tax burden to the buyers. That means the seller will always get 5.000.000 Silver for a single BC no matter what if we follow the ratio 100 Pearls = 1 Euro = 1.000.000 Silver. The 5.000.000 x 35% = 1.750.000 Silver Tax, will be paid from the buyer who he actually pay 5.000.000 + 1.750.000 = 6.750.000 if he has no active Value Pack or 1.750.000 x 30% = 525.000 ==> 5.000.000 + 525.000 = 5.525.000 with active Value PackWhatever they decide, the same must be applied for all the Pearl Items.

Does the existence of Black Coins mean that someone may buy as many of them as he wants with real money at the Pearl Store?

No. The same rules that apply for all the Pearl Items will apply to the BCs. If there is a limit of 125.000.000 Silver that someone can gain through selling Pearl Items in the Marketplace per week, then it will be the same with BC too. 25 BCs is the maximum allowed number that can someone sell in the Marketplace in a week.

Do the Devs win something from the existence of Black Coins?

Lets's face it: the current Loyalty System is worthless for a player who spends his time in the game. The BDO Team did their best to bring us this awesome game but I really think they had not the time to think a better Loyalty Rewarding System. That is why the most of the players have mounts of Loyalty Points. BCs, will give the same chances for everyone to do things. Players will be able to either use their Loyalty for a monthly subscription and then buy with real money Outfits, Pets, etc., or buy the monthly subscription with real money and use their Loyalty for other goodies. The players who need Pearl Items and cannot afford them, now will have a chance to buy them. This game is HUGE and with BCs, Devs manage to keep players playing and they eventually will make some real money purchases. Even if they don't, they did bought the game, and they offer in the game's economy through the Marketplace and others aspects. The players who are already pay, they will continue to do so with more options, and everyone is happy. After all this move will cover a big part of the demand of some many Items in the Marketplace.

What about all the current Loyalty Points? Players have tons of them in their accounts!

When the new System of Loyalty Reward is about to implement into the game, all the Loyalty Points from every account that have played or playing the game will reset to 0. A message will be announced from the Publishers/ Developers to inform the players for the upcoming update. I am thinking these options:

--- Option A: On 1st of May, the new Loyalty System will implement into the game. Please consider to use all your current Loyalty until this date as from the 1st of May all Loyalties will be reset and they will count differently from that date and forth.

--- Option B: On 1st of May, the new Loyalty System will implement into the game. Because all the Loyalties are going reset, all the existing Loyalties will be replaced accordingly to the below exchanging rates. All the items will be sent to your account through in game mail:

------ 0 - 15.000 Loyalty Points: 2 x 7 days of Value Pack

------ 15.001 - 30.000 Loyalty Points: 1 x 30 days of Value Pack

------ 30.001 - 45.000 Loyalty Points: 2 x 30 days of Value Pack

------ 45.001 - 60.000 Loyalty Points: 1 x 90 days of Value Pack + ___  (place Items Buff of your choice, Energy Fillers, CP  Fillers, etc,)

------ 60.001 - 75.000 Loyalty Points : 1 x 90 days of Value Pack +__ (place Items Buff of your choice, Energy Fillers, CP  Fillers, etc,) + 100 Pearls

------ 75.001 - 90.000 Loyalty Points : 1 x 90 days of Value Pack + __ (place Items Buff of your choice, Energy Fillers, CP  Fillers, etc,) + 200 Pearls

And so on, we can find a fair exchanging rate up to this point.

That means with the New Loyalty System we can store infinite Loyalty Points in our accounts?

Of course not. The majority of the players will definitely use their Loyalty Points as soon as they reach the proper exchanging rate for 1 Black Coin. But, someone who asks this question, obviously have in his mind the players who have a lot of money and no time to play. They will take the upper hand as soon as they store massive amounts of Loyalty Points and we cannot allow such a thing to destroy our System. That is why every Account will not exceed the maximum Loyalty Points number. This number will be the exchanging rate for 1 BC. Using the examples I refer to the Possible Scenarios section, it will be 1.000 for Scenario A, 1.500 for Scenario B, 2.000 for Scenario C and 3.000 for Scenario D. When they reach the maximum Loyalty Points they can obtain at any given time, they will have to use/exchange them in order to continue the Loyalty "gathering" or they will "stuck" with that amount of Loyalty until they use it.

So then, the players will be able to buy infinite BCs in the Marketplace as long as they have the Silver?

We want a Healthy Exchanging Loyalty - Pearl System for both the Players and the Publishers/Developers to exist. If we allow the uncontrollable buy of BCs from specific players, the wealthier in Silver players will never buy anything from the Pearl Shop and something like this it is not fair for the BDO Team. What can we do then? A simple thought, is: As the players with unlimited money can buy limited Pearl Items per week, so the players with unlimited in game Silvers will buy limited quantities of Black Coins. That way, the existing balance in the Marketplace will not take a hit from those who they will wait to buy only Black Coins and nothing else from the available Pearl Items (this idea may work with all the Pearl Shop Items as well and not only with BCs). Having in mind the above ratio (100 Pearls = 1 Euro = 1.000.000 Silver) we can propose:

- No matter which Scenario we follow, an active player can exchange his monthly Loyalty Points for some BCs (Scenario A: 3 BCs, Scenario B: 2 BCs, Scenario C & D: 1 BC) per month. If he lost some of his gaming time that means he cannot make this exchange but he will need to buy BCs either the Marketplace or with real life money. So, from each player's account, can be exchanged / bought with Loyalty Points or with in game Silver or with both (Loyalty and Silver) the maximum of 3 BCs per month.

--- If I am a returning player that have not play the game for more than a month, I can always buy 3 BCs in the Marketplace to catch up.

--- If I play the game, with any of the above Scenarios, I can buy from 0 to 3 BCs

Let's not forget that we already set a weekly limit of 25 BCs a player can buy with real money each week. So, a player can buy more of the 3 monthly offered BCs with real money as long as he does not exceed the weekly limit of Pearl Items. If he wants to use them or to sell them in the Marketplace it is his decision to make. The BDO Team will thank him for his investment and the rest of the community will thank him for providing the Marketplace with those. The limit of 3 BCs applies only to those who are not using real money to obtain BCs.

In addition to all these suggestions, the BDO Team can place some more privileges to those who make more purchases than others. Take a look at the below offers.

--- Allow up to 3 Black Coins = 1500 Pearls to be bought from each account per month with in game currency. The owner's must have bought the game. No trial accounts will have the right to make these purchases.

--- Allow up to 5 Black Coins = 2500 Pearls to be bought from each account per month with in game currency IF the owner's account have made a real money purchase of 5 to 30 Euros the last 3 month period.

--- Allow up to 6 Black Coins = 3000 Pearls to be bought from each account per month with in game currency IF the owner's account have made a real money purchase of 35 to 60 Euros the last 3 month period.

--- Allow up to 9 Black Coins = 4500 Pearls to be bought from each account per month with in game currency IF the owner's account have made a real money purchase of 65 to 90 Euros the last 3 month period.

--- Allow up to 12 Black Coins = 6000 Pearls to be bought from each account per month with in game currency IF the owner's account have made a real money purchase of 95 to 120 Euros the last 3 month period.

--- Allow up to 15 Black Coins = 7500 Pearls to be bought from each account per month with in game currency IF the owner's account have made a real money purchase of 125+ Euros the last 3 month period.

Anything above those limits, the player will have to pay with real money for purchasing BCs. What do we earn with this solution? All those who are paying real money with steady rate, they now have more options to achieve their in-game goals. Those with infinite Silvers, will not be able to dry the market from BCs as we set a monthly limit. All players will have balanced opportunities. Even the players who cannot pay real life money, they will have a purpose to play. And I do believe that even the players who cannot afford with real money Pearl Shop Items, they will be triggered to buy some of these Pearl Items in a matter of time e.g. a pet, a service, some weight/inventory increase etc. Keep the clients happy and they will eventually pay for something in exchange. We try to open roads for all the kind of "wallets" deep or swallow.

Do you believe something like that will work with the Marketplace having the RNG Factor in its foundations?

The current Marketplace is not driven by the players. It has steady bidding values. This element does not allow the wealthier players to drive the Marketplace according to their needs. On the other hand though, RNG Factor should never exist in the Marketplace System. We all know the most in demand items, are being sold in a sec at max price. That is why for all the Pearl Items should not be low or max price. There will be one simple exchanging price for each one of them: 100 Pearls = 1.000.000 SilversI strongly believe though that in order everything to work around as intended, the RNG Factor must be replaced with a Counting System or an actually Bidding ProcessEven if the Black Desert Team decides to let the Marketplace as it is now, the BCs will open a new area of transactions as the players will have another, more affordable way to buy what they need. Check out the Value Packs. Everyone wants them. Does everyone gets them through the current Marketplace? With BC idea, because 1 BC = 5 Euros, we will have a more affordable way to buy Pearl Items using real money. So, in the long run BDO Team, as they take good care of the aspects of the game (e.g. introduce Tier 10 Horse, More Outfits, Tier 5 or 6 Pets etc.) they will inspire the enthusiasm of the player base and they will increase their income.

If it was every other game I wouldn't bother to explain all those because it wouldn't matter. BUT with Black Desert Online, the options are just limitless... The Devs, must give the same chances to all players to experience all aspects of the game, and as long as they add more and more aspects in there they have nothing to fear...

 

Friendly

Oldar

Edited by Oldar
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I find this fair considering the game is B2P. At least some way to ge cash shop items without the current ridiculous restrictions ..I mean Blade and soul is F2P and you can get items from the cash shop without paying real money. So black desert not having a similar system doesn't really make sense. . .

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Posted (edited)

I find this fair considering the game is B2P. At least some way to ge cash shop items without the current ridiculous restrictions ..I mean Blade and soul is F2P and you can get items from the cash shop without paying real money. So black desert not having a similar system doesn't really make sense. . .

Exactly this! ^^^

If you think about it, they will earn in the long run a lot more than they are earning now.

I cannot understand why, most of the Publishers/Developers of MMO titles, are hasty to get as much as possible earnings in the first 3 or 4 months since the launch of their title and they take decisions that actually kill the player base. They choose hostile marketing models to their player base, and only when they start to lose them, they consider their moves. It is like they do not have faith to their own product. If they do fix things from the start, thinking about their customers, they will generate a healthy cooperation between their supporters. You earn their trust from the beginning and they will play your game years after it launched. Of course I am talking in general and not specific for Kakao or Daum, although I saw what happened with the August 2016 changes. Nowadays, they seem to try hard to please their fans and I respect that. If only they could bring us a balance like the one I describe above, it would be so much better experience for everyone.

In any case, fast moves for fast grabs, will kill eventually the big player base who are always looking for a balance between what I pay - what I receive.

Edited by Oldar

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I reckon there are some unicorns aswell where you live? :x

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I reckon there are some unicorns aswell where you live? :x

I believe the main reason for this these pages to exist, is for everyone to suggest ways that may improve our experience with the game. If you are not sharing the same interests with the rest of the community, please go and troll yourselves somewhere else, or bring up constructive arguments and explain your point of view.

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I believe the main reason for this these pages to exist, is for everyone to suggest ways that may improve our experience with the game. If you are not sharing the same interests with the rest of the community, please go and troll yourselves somewhere else, or bring up constructive arguments and explain your point of view.

If you think this wouldnt hit their revenue than you havent thought that much about it. And if you think they would let that happen than you are silly. While I would love that we would have more options for pearl shop items or alternatives its not gonna happen.

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I agree with this idea but there should be a larger restriction. 
Cut the loyalty to 1000 = 100 Pearls.
Create "Knock off" pets that do the same thing but a little worse. (Like say pickup every 10 seconds with no room to grow.)
Make the selection for these items very limited. (Value packs are only sold as 7 day, Pets limited to 1 Dog cat or Hawk., Outfits and Costumes will be 30 Day limited time.)
You can only spend 1,000 pearls monthly, but this stacks for each month you don't spend your 1,000. (So you can buy larger items that cost 2-3,000.)

Basically make it so that this system doesn't prevent the need to ever buy pearls, as that would cut revenue. Whether people are angry about it or not DAUM does need money to keep its servers up and running with stability. This would reward players that are loyal (Thus having tons of loyalty) while not making it too game breaking, and helps less fortunate players have something to aim for without feeling left out because they can't buy pearls.

Silver for pearls however is a no go.

 

Edit: I logged in today and cashed out 500 loyalty. It's not too hard getting loyalty so 100 = 1000 isnt too bad.

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I believe the main reason for this these pages to exist, is for everyone to suggest ways that may improve our experience with the game. If you are not sharing the same interests with the rest of the community, please go and troll yourselves somewhere else, or bring up constructive arguments and explain your point of view.

IF there is a way for people to get pearl items for free with loyalty.....

NOONE WILL SPEND MONEY TO HELP KEEP THE SERVERS RUNNING.

SO either go get a job ( Or a job that pays better )....or keep standing on the corner wanting with your little sign that says " Will PvP for Food ".

Is that clear enough ?

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Posted (edited)

If you think this wouldnt hit their revenue than you havent thought that much about it. And if you think they would let that happen than you are silly. While I would love that we would have more options for pearl shop items or alternatives its not gonna happen.

Thank you for your honest reply. I agree that if every idea we share in these forums was going to happen, then this section would not be called Suggestion Forum. It would be called "Throw an idea and see it happen" Forum. That is why I am trying to build justified thoughts and share some ideas which I believe they will help the game in the long run. After all I think the Devs are listening some well justified ideas and... we can hope!

I agree with this idea but there should be a larger restriction. 
Cut the loyalty to 1000 = 100 Pearls.
Create "Knock off" pets that do the same thing but a little worse. (Like say pickup every 10 seconds with no room to grow.)
Make the selection for these items very limited. (Value packs are only sold as 7 day, Pets limited to 1 Dog cat or Hawk., Outfits and Costumes will be 30 Day limited time.)
You can only spend 1,000 pearls monthly, but this stacks for each month you don't spend your 1,000. (So you can buy larger items that cost 2-3,000.)

Basically make it so that this system doesn't prevent the need to ever buy pearls, as that would cut revenue. Whether people are angry about it or not DAUM does need money to keep its servers up and running with stability. This would reward players that are loyal (Thus having tons of loyalty) while not making it too game breaking, and helps less fortunate players have something to aim for without feeling left out because they can't buy pearls.

Silver for pearls however is a no go.

 

Edit: I logged in today and cashed out 500 loyalty. It's not too hard getting loyalty so 100 = 1000 isnt too bad.

Thank you for your thoughts.

That is why I suggest to change the way Loyalty is being given at the moment. If we receive our Loyalty NOT in the first second we log in BUT in the first second of e.g. the second or third hour of playtime or 20 Points every hour with 100 Points max every day, it would be enough to slowly build your way up while playing the game. The whole idea is for the Developers/Publishers to give us more true options (and not delusions) to choose or manage our buys from the list of necessary Pearl Items we gonna need eventually in order to experience all the aspects of the game.

Having that in mind, I see it this way:

If a player wants to experience the Pet Breeding, with the Marketplace at its current state he eventually need to pay. At this point in order to breed one single Tier 4 Pet, he will need 8 x Tier 1 Pets. So, 8 x 900 Pearls = 7200 Pearls = 100 Euros (as there are no options for less real money). And that is for a single Tier 4 Pet. The same goes for the player who wants to Enhance Weapon/Armor, he will need Artisans Memories, or for those who want to collect Outfits or those who they love to farm all day long they gonna need increasing weight limit and more Inventory space and who knows what else in the future . For all those players, the solution I describe above gives them a way to pass through the heavy Cash Shop while they experience all the aspects of the game. In my humble opinion it is easier to think "I am gonna buy with real money e.g. 4 dogs and while I am playing I will buy another 4 dogs with the BCs in 80-100 days of playtime" than this thought: "100 Euros for a single Tier 4 Dog? No, thanks I will pass. I will buy 2 x Tier 1 Dogs and I will try to breed a Tier 2 Dog and that's it". In the first case Devs are going to receive 40 Euros with a promise more to come in the near future while the player is into his role in the game. In the second case they will receive 20 Euros at best and that's it.

What I am proposing is for the game to provide a method as the one I described, so this player will never think he will have to pay all of these Items with real money. He can start with something small e.g. a Pet or a Value Pack, and then slowly he will start to think ways of possible combinations between real money buys and in game Loyalty Points. That being said, it will be very hard to discourage himself from playing as he will always have a purpose. Pet breeding? Weapon/Armor Enhancement? Trader? Farm's Owner? etc. There are SO many options and that is why I strongly believe the Devs are not going to lose in the long run. The whole System will help everyone to think twice before discourage themselves and either stop playing or stop paying for some Pearl Items.

IF there is a way for people to get pearl items for free with loyalty.....
NOONE WILL SPEND MONEY TO HELP KEEP THE SERVERS RUNNING.

SO either go get a job ( Or a job that pays better )....or keep standing on the corner wanting with your little sign that says " Will PvP for Food ".

Is that clear enough ?

Your answer tells me that either you have not read the question-answer section of my idea, or you are just another MMO Forum troll. In the first case you cannot jump to conclusions that have no valid points as I explain them above. In the second case, well, you suggestions are not helping at all and I choose to ignore them.

Edited by Oldar

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Posted

I read enough to know that anytime " Pearl " items are offered at a free way, less money is spent on the actual items.

Which will force the company to look for alternative revenue streams..like free to play.


NO

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Posted (edited)

I read enough to know that anytime " Pearl " items are offered at a free way, less money is spent on the actual items.

Which will force the company to look for alternative revenue streams..like free to play.


NO

If you have not read my arguments then I am afraid you missed the "under certain circumstances" part. I am not suggesting give us free Pearls. I am suggesting give us alternatives to experience all the aspects of the game as dedicated players.

Edited by Oldar

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This seems like a nice idea and I would love something like this to entice player to come and stay. However, I don't think it's likely they would cut their profits to implement such a system. It is a nice idea though. (I said this without hurling needless insults...)

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If you think this wouldnt hit their revenue than you havent thought that much about it. And if you think they would let that happen than you are silly. While I would love that we would have more options for pearl shop items or alternatives its not gonna happen.

You deeply DEEPLY underestimate how lazy the whales of these types of games are. If you have the option of grinding for something later, or buying it with $$$ now... they're going to pick the $$$ option 100% of the time.

Even frigging WoW has now enabled you to use in-game gold to buy what used to be premium cash shop only pets, mounts, and even account services like faction transfers and name changes.

Having a scummy F2P only system in a game everyone has to pay money to even access is absurd and it only passes in the asian markets. This game would be way more popular in the west if you could achieve more without being forced to open your wallet to do anything that brings a shred of convenience or customization.

I haven't played this game in a year and my name is still showing up on the top rankings for several professions. The marketplace i'm currently camping atm has a very low amount of items sold on it. Extremely super low supply for anything you want to buy because nobody is actually PLAYING the game.

I spent like $250 on Heroes of the Storm, and a good chunk of that was for stuff I could get for free with a grind. I'll gladly spend more money on that game without batting an eye cause it's a proper F2P game that doesn't ask for a single sent to play it at a competitive level. Meanwhile I think I spent $100 on BDO and I feel like throwing up that I even wasted so much money when I realize how little it actually got me.

Like right now I'm looking at the cash shop and thinking to myself. I'd totally buy this stuff. I really really would... if it didn't inconvenience me at EVERY possible opportunity.

Too expensive, too limiting. $20 for horse armor? $30 for an outfit that many classes can share, but you can only use on one character?

Hey I'd totally buy the desert camo if I could use it on ALL my characters. That's an easy $40 extra they could be making out of me. But what if I get bored of the class I buy it for? I'd rather not risk it.

I can use extra storage space and weight limits for my characters. Let me go buy some of that, wait no... again I might get tired of this character and want to play something new. So I'll pass on that. More money they aren't getting out of me.

I'd probably be buying more of the underwear and armor styles too. Right now I only got two underwears and two armors. But if they were family wide, I'd probably buy dozens more just so I could switch them at my leisure.

All this potential money I could be spending if only it gave me a better sense of "yeah, I'm getting a good deal out of this" I guarantee I'm not the only player thinking like this either. The only thing stopping us from spending more money than we normally would is the fact that we aren't certain that even if we do keep playing the game we'll even be playing the same character we dumped all our money on. So it's hard to get invested in the game.

These types of risky purchases would be best gained through an in-game feature like TC suggested. Thus increasing our investment in our BDO account and making us less likely to abandon it at the drop of a hat. Now that we're more invested we're also more likely to spend money on other things like horse armor or pets that are family wide and more "safe" to buy.

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Searching for a topic like that, I found this one. But I thought because the topic was old enough, to create another one giving the proper attention to the point today.

Buying Pearls with Loyalty!

I was wondering why they did not implement such a mechanism in their game and if there is a way to do it so that nobody could blame them for P2W aspects? 

The most obvious answer would be "because they want to force players to give in all those convenience items for real money". Nobody can blame them for that. Their game, their Rules.

But what If there was something that, would let the Devs to obtain money as well, and at the same time it would give a chance to the players to buy something with the time they invest in the game? Then all those who believe that BDO has P2W aspects would reconsider their point of view.

How can we implement a fair exchanging process? I explain my idea below. It may need some tweaks here and there but I present the general picture:

=================================================   B L A C K       C O I N   =================================================

- Introduce a new item, called e.g. Black Coin (BC from now on).

1 x Black Coin = 1000 Loyalty = 500 Pearls, which means that the BC could be bought from the Pearl store with real money or the Loyalty store with Loyalty.

- The buyer would have 2 options:

--- Option A: He can consume it with one of his characters and he will earn 500 Pearls in his account.

--- Option B: He can sell it in the Marketplace.

- The buyer who will purchase it through the Marketplace will not be able to sell it again. He must consume it no matter what.

- The BC will not have lower or maximum Marketplace price. It will have steady value 1 Black Coin = 5.000.000 Silvers. 

 

What do we gain with the existence of Black Coins?

Everyone will have the same chances to buy the Pearl Items they want through playing the game. Those who do not have time, they can always buy Black Coins with real money. You cannot afford them? Play the game daily and earn Loyalty Points. At some point you will be able to buy the staff you need.

What will happen with all the other Loyalty Currencies now that we have Black Coins?

They can simple delete those Items that do not have a meaning to be there e.g. 1 day Value Pack with 1400 Loyalty Points. With Black Coins, you can buy everything there is in the Pearl Shop. You only need time to play the game.

What about the players who will log in only for the "quick grab" of the Loyalty Points and log out again?

I believe that an MMO title should not be considered by the players as a second real life job. It should be fun, a chance to meet new people and together you should try to achieve higher goals . But in this case, I want to protect the game as well and I would recommend no Loyalty points will be granted if the player has logged in for less than 2-3 hours.

Black Coins, really? That means there is no need to buy ever again something through the Pearl Shop.

Not true. Using my example of exchange (1000 Loyalty = 500 Pearls), in order to buy e.g. a Value Pack with only Loyalty Points you will need one full month to log in into the game for at least 2-3 hours daily. Then you can buy the Value Pack BUT you will not be able to buy anything else. No pet, no outfit, no inventory space, no increased weight limit, no nothing. Remember that you have to log in EVERY SINGLE DAY for a significant period of time in order to collect Loyalty Points. If you lose even 1 day, you will not be able to do that in a month. That being said, you can earn a chance to play the game as those who actually pay for the monthly subscription with real money, but if you want other goodies as well, you would have to either buy them with real money, buy them through the Marketplace or stop using your Loyalty Points for the Value Pack and collect them slowly.

What happens with the other Pearl Shop Items? That means we will never see them in the Marketplace again?

Adjustments to the selling prices should be made so the actually exchange rate will be 100 Pearls = 1 Euro = 1.000.000 Silver. For example, a Value Pack currently costs 9.828.000 Silver. It will cost 15.000.000 Silver. The same for the Outfits, Pets etc. So, for 15 Euros the seller, may choose between 3 BCs, 1 Value Pack, 1 BC and 1 Pet etc, to provide into the Marketplace.

What about the tax policy? How will it apply to the BC?

The choice will be made from the Devs. They can follow the same rules for all the other Pearl items that being sold to the Marketplace at the moment or they can simply bring the tax burden to the buyers. That means the seller will always get 5.000.000 Silver for a single BC no matter what. The 5.000.000 x 35% = 1.750.000 Silver Tax, will be paid from the buyer who he actually pay 5.000.000 + 1.750.000 = 6.750.000 if he has no active Value Pack or 1.750.000 x 30% = 525.000 ==> 5.000.000 + 525.000 = 5.525.000 with active Value PackWhatever they decide, the same must be applied for all the Pearl Items.

Does the existence of Black Coins mean that someone may buy as many of them as he wants?

No. The same rules that apply for all the Pearl Items will apply to the BCs. If there is a limit of 125.000.000 Silver that someone can gain through selling Pearl Items in the Marketplace per week, then it will be the same with BC too. 25 BCs is the maximum allowed number that can someone sell in the Marketplace in a week.

Do the Devs win something from the existence of Black Coins?

BCs, will give the same chances for everyone to do things. Players will be able to either use their Loyalty for a monthly subscription and then buy with real money Outfits, Pets, etc., or buy the monthly subscription with real money and use their Loyalty for the other goodies. The players who need Pearl Items and cannot afford them, now will have a chance to buy them. This game is HUGE and with BCs, Devs manage to keep players playing and they eventually will make some real money purchases. Even if they don't, they did bought the game, and they offer in the game's economy through the Marketplace and others aspects. The players who are already pay, they will continue to do so with more options, and everyone is happy. After all this move will cover a big part of the demand of some many Items in the Marketplace.

Do you believe something like that will work with the Marketplace having the RNG Factor in its foundations?

The current Marketplace is not driven by the players. It has steady bidding values. This element does not allow the wealthier players to drive the Marketplace according to their needs. On the other hand though, RNG Factor should never exist in the Marketplace System. We all know the most in demand items, are being sold in a sec at max price. That is why for all the Pearl Items should not be low or max price. There will be one simple exchanging price for each one of them: 100 Pearls = 1.000.000 SilversI strongly believe though that in order everything to work around as intended, the RNG Factor must be replaced with a Counting System or an actually Bidding Process.

 

Friendly

Oldar

Change it to 10,000 Loyalty for 200 pearls and black coin Marketplace value to 750,000,000 silver and it might be something worth considering. You have to remember that allot of people have 1000's of loyalty and BILLIONS of silver, you still need to make pearls value very high. Your values would make pearls practically worthless and the in game economy would be saturated  and BDO's revenue would dry up and inevitably kill the game.

Your idea is sound, but needs tweaking.

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- Snip -

 Very well thought out, and well written post my good sir.

 

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This seems like a nice idea and I would love something like this to entice player to come and stay. However, I don't think it's likely they would cut their profits to implement such a system. It is a nice idea though. (I said this without hurling needless insults...)

Thank you very much for your answer.

Although at first this idea seems like it will "hurt" their profits, if you think about it more careful, you will realize that it will happen the exact opposite. It will boost their earnings in the long run.

In Europe - America the Gaming Industries, follow a way different Marketing Model than the Eastern Countries (Korea, China, etc.). The European/American Players are looking for a balance that will ensure them with the feeling "if I commit myself into this game and play long enough I will be able to buy EVERYTHING and I will be able to do ANYTHING the game has to offer." Here enters the Publisher and creates some convenience tools (Black Coin in our case), for those who do not have much time to invest in the game. As long as they do this addition with respect to all those who are investing their time to achieve what others buy with real money, you have the perfect balance.

After all, let's not forget that their original paying model is Buy To Play. As it is now, nobody informs the new player what he actually buys when he purchases one of the gaming packs to play the game and what he will need to buy (with real money) if he wants to experience all the aspects in there. A lot of players will not spent money to a game that changes drastically without warnings (e.g. Value Pack addition). A lot of players left because there was no such a balance and a lot of players returned since January because they saw that something is happening to the right direction.

The Pearl Items who can only be bought with real money will not give to the player just a convenient tool. They will allow him to experience aspects of the game that others who cannot/will not pay, will never see (e.g. pet breeding, weapon/armor enchanting, etc.)! This is exactly the key point. This is why some of the players who tried the game have left, this is why others are not trying it at all and this is why the most of the players will leave when they will find this balance somewhere else or when the next big thing will come out.

If Black Desert Team understand that Europe/America is not Korea/China and offers this balance, players will invest more money and time into the game and it will be difficult to leave because of the bond that will be created between them. This is a win - win relationship.

Making all those more simple: A Pet Shop in a town. is the ONLY one that exists in 1000 miles range. If he offers for free a pet to a person who loves pets, don't you think he will win in the long run? The person who will accept the puppy, he will buy from the Pet Shop food. toys, medicines etc. For as long as the pet is alive, the Pet shop will earn a steady income for the person who gifted the puppy from the first place. That person will send more of his friends there and those who love pets and have the money will eventually pay for more pets etc.

The above example makes me think that even with a single discount in the Pearl shop we can see these:

Current Active Population in the EU servers: 100.000 Players

Population who pays for Value Pack every month: 20.000 ==> x 15 Euros = 300.000,00 Euros

Population who pays for Pearl Items: 10.000 ==> x 30 Euros = 300.000,00 Euros

Value Packs that being provided in the Marketplace: 1.000 Players ==> x 15 Euros = 15.000,00 Euros

Pearl Items that being provided in the Marketplace: 1.000 Players ==> x 30 Euros = 30.000,00 Euros

Total of income: 645.000,00 Euros

After lowering the prices:

Current Active Population in the EU servers: 200.000 Players

Population who pays for Value Pack every month: 40.000 ==> x 10 Euros = 400.000,00 Euros

Population who pays for Pearl Items: 20.000 ==> x 15 Euros = 300.000,00 Euros

Value Packs that being provided in the Marketplace: 5.000 Players ==> x 10 Euros = 50.000,00 Euros

Pearl Items that being provided in the Marketplace: 5.000 Players ==> x 15 Euros = 75.000,00 Euros

Total of income: 825.000,00 Euros

Of course the numbers I am using are totally fictional, but they provide the general picture of the current pricing method. Now, imagine if we have the Black Coin currency inserted into the game with a better rewarding Loyalty System. Because, in my humble opinion, I believe the current Loyalty System is not working as intended. Either you have 1000 Loyalty or 1.000.000 you will never be able to experience all the aspects of the game.
With the Black Coin Idea, Devs will not have to change their prices at all. The only thing they need to tweak is the pricing for the items we are placing in the Marketplace to achieve ratio 100 Pearls = 1 Euro = 1.000.000 Silver. They provide us with the Loyalty we need and with a way to buy the Items ourselves with A) Our game investment time, B) our money or C) with a mixture of them both. Here is where the increase of their earnings is going to happen! The new Loyalty System actually means a lot if you have 500 Loyalty Points OR 10.000! 
The Publishers can do the math behind the real numbers. They can test this theory for e.g. a week. If they do not see their numbers going up they can change it back to the original plan. But as it is right now, all the players with tight budget who could actually pay for about 10-20 Euros per month, they will look somewhere else to cover their gaming needs or they will buy very few Items. That way, they lose more than they could earn.

-- What Alu7 wrote above --

^^ Exactly my point!!!

Change it to 10,000 Loyalty for 200 pearls and black coin Marketplace value to 750,000,000 silver and it might be something worth considering. You have to remember that allot of people have 1000's of loyalty and BILLIONS of silver, you still need to make pearls value very high. Your values would make pearls practically worthless and the in game economy would be saturated  and BDO's revenue would dry up and inevitably kill the game.

Your idea is sound, but needs tweaking.

Thank you for your response!

Yes tweaks must be done. In order to implement this idea into the game they have to consider about those crucial things you described. So, how can we manage all those?

**I updated my Original Post in the Answer/ Question Section, so I removed my answer here as it has no value to repeat myself. Please check the OP for more info.**

=====================================================================================================================

- As for those who have Billions of Silver, either they think that they have not a way to spent them into the game or they are waiting for something they need to buy (e.g. +20 Weapon). This is why the Black Coin idea will create new spending options. But, we need to have a limit as to how many Pearl Items / Black Coins those players could buy. The current Marketplace has very closed range of prices (that is why nobody can manipulate those prices). So, we can limit the number of Black Coins someone can buy with in game money as we do with the players who are using real life money.

**I updated my Original Post in the Answer/ Question Section, so I removed my answer here as it has no value to repeat myself. Please check the OP for more info.**

After all, the players who have Billions in this game they have obtain them with 2 ways:

a) They farm/play the game far too much. Those who belong in the first case, they will see their efforts receiving some recognition as they will have more things to do with Black Coins. I believe, the majority of the players who belong in this category, they are investing so much time in the game and they actually want to support it. With Black Coin Option, they will afford to buy in time the items they need to keep doing what they are doing. 

b) They buy Pearl Items and sell them in the Marketplace. For those who already paying, nothing will change except from the variety of choices to buy Items for themselves or to provide more Items in the Marketplace.

c) There are players who do both of the above, but let's be honest, how many are those? And they do what every dreamy customer every Publisher wish to do: they play and pay a lot. So, no question about this category.

At the end of the day, Black Desert Team, with the implementation of this idea, they can think other ways to keep their player base happy and playing the game e.g. new Outfits, pets Tier 5 and 6, Weapons/Armor +25 with new items involved to achieve that - maybe using a mix of in-game crafting materials and buying some Pearl Items - etc....

Again, my numbers are just examples. If the Publishers/ Developers think they need tweaks, they can open a communication channel with us to discuss it further and come up to a justify solution.

If it was every other game I wouldn't bother to explain all those because it wouldn't matter. BUT with Black Desert Online, the options are just limitless... The Devs, must give the same chances to all players to experience all aspects of the game, and as long as they add more and more aspects in there they have nothing to fear...

Edited by Oldar
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You've convinced me lol! You've really thought this through! My old favorite MMO, Guild Wars Two absolutely did something along these lines. They allowed the use of in-game currency to transfer to their Diamonds or "Pearls" which could be used to purchase premium content. The exchange was steep, of course. However, it was doable and it became another goal for players. I personally played for hours just to get a silly little pet that had no function in that game. I absolutely loved that system and I think your system would be amazing as well. In games like these, retaining happy customers is everything. I think a currency system like your's would really help with that. I hope they notice this post. Is there a way to vote this up? I'm still very new to these forum and well, forums as a whole lol.

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You've convinced me lol! You've really thought this through! My old favorite MMO, Guild Wars Two absolutely did something along these lines. They allowed the use of in-game currency to transfer to their Diamonds or "Pearls" which could be used to purchase premium content. The exchange was steep, of course. However, it was doable and it became another goal for players. I personally played for hours just to get a silly little pet that had no function in that game. I absolutely loved that system and I think your system would be amazing as well. In games like these, retaining happy customers is everything. I think a currency system like your's would really help with that. I hope they notice this post. Is there a way to vote this up? I'm still very new to these forum and well, forums as a whole lol.

Thank you for your comments and your good words. If we can think all the possible ways that a System like this is going to fail, and solve all those problems then yes, I believe that we will make the Black Desert Online much more "open pocketed" game to experience with.

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