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Remember when it was just +15? (too much disparity in gear now)

104 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

"AH good times" 

First of all I am not going to minimize the crazy amount of work and effort people have put into their gear and character because I know it has been monumental.  You all deserve what you have. There are players that can wipe 5, 10 maybe more what I would consider averaged geared player.  While this might be fun for the well geared guy, is this good for everyone else?

Back then, It was all about accessories and the gab between new / returning players and no lifers weren't that massively different as is today. They had the advantage but you had a fighting chance, they couldn't wipe 5-10 averagely geared players. Now, I really don't know if I can say that anymore.

There is too much disparity in gear now.  The game was settling out pretty well when we all were stuck at  +15.  Not anymore.  It is sad when you are a 400 ap/dp guy fairly balanced and you get one or two shot, you watch damage to opposing players that seem to do nothing.  To a more laid back person, this pretty discouraging, probably part of the reason why RBF is filled with the same people you see more and more often.

"But, people would run out of things to do!"

People say that if they didn't release Pri, Duo, Tri, Tet and Pen, people would run out of things to do. Well even if they didn't release those and all we had was +15 weapons and armors and it was all about enchanting accessories, people would still not run out of things to do. How do I know this? Look at the statistic of how many people have tet / pen accessories. Hardly anyone... The only thing that would change would be that a lot of players would have +15 weapons / armors and the differences between casual - hardcore would be 5-15 AP differences. The hardcore would still have the advantage (which they should since they put so many hours into this game) but it wouldn't be ridiculous to the point where they could take on so many players at once.

I just don't think this is the recipe to a long lasting MMORPG. Look at the population in KR, its only a matter of time before the numbers dwindle as well in NA. Would it really be that bad to create a PvP playground to which all gear are equalized so that it was all truly about skills and also create a rating system that rewards cool cosmetic items?

No matter how much money you give new or returning players, they will have a hard time catching up because of the way the game mechanic is.

 

Edited by Gumo
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Posted

agree. guild wars 2 is better in this aspect

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You must fail in order to succeed. What's so hard about that?

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sticker,220x200-pad,220x200,ffffff.u3.jp

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Posted

AH Good times.

It was all about accessories and the gab between new / returning players and no lifers weren't that massively different as is today. They had the advantage but you had a fighting chance. NOW I can't say that.

Now it just feels like you get one shot left and right. Red Battlefield is no fun for new players. Whoever though it was a good idea to make it server base, I would never know why. Its dominated by heavily geared players.

 

People say that if they didn't release Pri, Duo, Tri, Tet and Pen people would run out of things to do. Well even if they didn't release those and all we had was +15 weapons and armors and it was all about enchanting accessories, people would still not run out of things to do. How do I know this? Look at the statistic of how many people have pen accessories. Hardly anyone... No matter how much money you give new or returning players, they will have a hard time catching up. HARDER and HARDER. I dont even see +15 Grunils on the market anymore and learning this game has been the hardest I've ever experience in any other mmo. Its so overwhelming, failstacks, do this and that, purposely try to fail so that you can enchant on what you want etc etc its just so overwhelming.

 

Great points. Dont expect much from the community beside "git gud noob." 

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Posted

 

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15 max was fun, 16-20 gets less enjoyable every day...sucks that it will never change

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I gotta say, I've been playing since Beta(casually), and I've been enjoying it since day 1. I don't try and get into the rat race of having the best gear. I'll admit going for multiple TET attempts and ruining basically all my gear and going broke because of it can be shitty. But it's another milestone I will leap over because when I earn something, I -----ing EARNED it. Try to enjoy the journey, one step at a time.

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I miss +15 too but there were so few grind spots (and all the good ones were owned by large/strong guilds) that catching up for a new person would've been similarly difficult.  At least we have some variety now in that regard.  It's easy to be nostalgic but I remember large-guild ranger players being in TRI witch and MoS obscenely early and one shotting everyone (and taking 1% XP per kill to boot).

The high gear has moved up but it does crunch down at a certain point.  My gear stagnated hardcore once every upgrade started to cost 1bil on average for a few AP.  It takes a couple of months to be in full TRI and have that fighting chance that people have mentioned.  I've been stuck stagnant at ~500 combined ap/dp while watching guildmates return to the game and go from 300 combined up to 450-480 and I'm perfectly happy about that.

tl;dr the bar was raised but it's easier to climb now.  A dedicated person can still get competitive over 2-3 months.

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Honestly, I do hope they stop at +20. The playerbase did not handle going from +15 to +20 very well, and it took a while for the population to bounce back. I really don't want to see what would happen to the game if they added a +25...

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+15 was great. sadly too many think its casual...

+15 was great for a lot of classes that are now jack-shit with +20. thanks Daum, DDOS and @Dremlock!

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What ruined the whole feature wasn't going pri-pen. What ruined it was. 1)Diggers 2)Artisan Memories in the pearl shop. Anyone who says it isn't P2W hasn't played this game much.

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A few things I notice...

1) People don't set realistic goals for themselves

2) People assume you need max gear to compete.  The reality the only piece that's none negotiable is your Zaka for the accuracy.  Past that at the top a lot of people don't use 4/4 boss.

3) People complain about how hard it is to get up, but aren't willing to set up all their afk income even though they only play for a few hours a day, and consider it hardcore to have afk income coming in 24/7, even though it doesn't require them to do much, maybe spend 2 min a few times throughout the day to feed workers / reset your main toon. 

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What ruined the whole feature wasn't going pri-pen. What ruined it was. 1)Diggers 2)Artisan Memories in the pearl shop. Anyone who says it isn't P2W hasn't played this game much.

I've been playing since launch and I don't think this game is P2W ;) 

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I've been playing since launch and I don't think this game is P2W ;) 

Then you're wrong. =D

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What ruined the whole feature wasn't going pri-pen. What ruined it was. 1)Diggers 2)Artisan Memories in the pearl shop. Anyone who says it isn't P2W hasn't played this game much.

Everyone calling BDO p2w NEVER played a p2w MMO EVER. B|

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The +15 limit seemed to be more "fair" (since past that, especially weapons get a massive AP boost per +), but going past it and up to +20 isn't the one and only grave mistake that drastically changed this game (and in my humble opinion for the worse).

We should not forget the INCREDIBLE screw up with "awakenings" and the obscene boost in power most classes received with their new fancy skills. Even the Korean Devs themselves more or less admitted to it, but the damage is already done now.

Now, if you can couple the two facts, along with other more "minor" facts (like wealth and power mostly accumulating to the already wealthy and powerful small percentage of the player base), you end up what we got today, and all the voices heard about "imbalances" and whatnot.

Personally, I would not mind that much about that accumulation of "wealth and power" described above, if anything and like it or not, this is the way things work, and probably should work, if people are determined to invest the time and effort it takes (sure... and have better "relationships" with almighty RNGesus too).

What is unacceptable though, is the lunatic "mechanics" that allow not only in a big gap of power (which in the end might not be that incredibly huge, as more people start to "catch up"), but also using this incredible power (aka AP is G-O-D) to lead into the farce we have today. One combo, or even one-hit anything and everything.

As I said, it isn't just the boost upgraded gear up to PEN can provide, it is also (and more important) the ridiculous multipliers all those fancy awakening skills provide. Perhaps, something that does 500% damage and if you had say 180AP would not be enough to vapourise someone, but hey, something that does 3000% or 5000% along with 230-250AP AND the also lunatic CCs, will certainly do.

The whole freaking thing screams for a real and complete reworking, but if anyone has hopes or believes it's ever happening, best of luck.

At the very least, they could have limited the actual impact upgrading gear has, kinda doing a "diminishing returns" thing, like, OK, you got your TRI-TET-PEN, but that only gives you a marginal increase, not a massive one. In ALL FREAKING gear, accessories included. That way the "powerful elite" would be more powerful, sure, and why not have a reason to be proud of their achievement, but not obscenely powerful.

Again, assuming that freaking skills, "awakened" or not, would be somehow "balanced", but sure, good luck with that too.

Bah, it is too convenient to have a "system" like the current one, it will never drastically change. And last but not least, we should remember... it does wonders for sales and bringing in real income (apparently), which in the end is the one and good and sole reason for any REAL change to happen.

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Posted

I don't really see why +15 had no downgrade yet +16 upwards does?. The game did not suffer because everyone could force to +15 before.

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Posted (edited)

+15 was great. sadly too many think its casual...

+15 was great for a lot of classes that are now jack-shit with +20. thanks Daum, DDOS and @Dremlock!

balance wise, the +15 was perfect this is why our version suck since the balance is now totally confused (bamboozle)

Edited by Ushuo
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The worst thing about 15+ is game system is not balanced over  15+ items - higher AP multipled by skills % make completly broken values for dmg and makes dp worthless.

+15 times was much better at many ways: better balance, less RNG, possible catch up

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Posted

when greed happens it turns to a mass of fcked up shit

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You must fail in order to succeed. What's so hard about that?

it is a life lesson

Fail = success at the end

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Posted

R N G SUCKS!

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Posted (edited)

+15 = 1v1s take 30 minutes to finish

Don't get me wrong, 2 second PvPs are a joke as well but it is the lesser evil between burst and the +15 meta, whereas in the +15 meta? I could just KS mobs all day and never have to pay attention to the guy attacking me. Zero burst potential = boring fail pvp, pretty much why GW2 failed when it's expansion came out.

I am NOT going to play a game where the guy sleeping first loses

The whole sustain damage meta could've worked but they don't know how to fix desync. It's pretty sad.

Edited by andy1213

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I gotta say, I've been playing since Beta(casually), and I've been enjoying it since day 1. I don't try and get into the rat race of having the best gear. I'll admit going for multiple TET attempts and ruining basically all my gear and going broke because of it can be shitty. But it's another milestone I will leap over because when I earn something, I -----ing EARNED it. Try to enjoy the journey, one step at a time.

Nope... You didnt earn anything... You just hit lucky number on roulette... +15 was earning... +20 is gambling...

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