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Is putting PVP behind a PVE grind wall a good idea?

31 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I'm going to argue no.

Why? Because gamers aren't known for their patience. How many players do you think have set sail for other games having been unable to stomach the bore of the PVE grind? This game is a business, and for a business like this to garner more success, it requires players; and I suspect they're losing a LOT of players because of the excessive grind wall holding off a part of the game a huge section of gamers are trying to get to (PVP)..

PVP must be made more accessible early on, otherwise you're losing out on a huge market..

Some other recommendations would be :

-balance the grind with the progression

       +Currently the grind is to high for even a slight progression in a lot of people's eyes, this results in boredom.. You need to balance the grind so that people are making enough progress as to not get bored, while at the same time not making the grind too slight so that the game is over too quickly..

- Remove RNG elements.

      +The desire for fairness outweighs the excitement of winning the jackpot currently; people aren't falling for the RNG gimic anymore, and I see huge backlash against it ingame, and on the forums.. I suggest you drop your psychology textbooks and listen to your players..One thing you haven't taken into account with your RNG psychology : people learn..

 

 

Edited by Octia
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Posted

same as above no one wants to pvp I'm down to fight 1v1 or 1v10 bring it on lol

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Posted

Speaking of PVP, is it automatically unlocked upon reaching a certain level, or do you have to do a quest to unlock the ability to attack/be attacked?

 

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Posted

@Octia you never played a REAL grinder if you think its hard in BDO.

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Posted

The game is perfect as it is, no need to open new topics to try to get a rejected point across any further man. 
I get it that you are fascinated with this World but if you want to have a shot at me go grind some of the nearly 10k hours I've put into the game since early access and then come and kill my noob sorryass gear-carried by all the life skills that I've done in 1 year. 

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Posted

I agree in a way, but before you could lose exp getting PvP'd and it made more sense because pvp happened on a regular basis out in the world. But it changed because the majority of the players weren't into it. Now you have this weird PvEvP thing. BUT there are things in the game for catching up, whether it be the soft cap, free stuff you get for logging in, exp weekends whatever.  Everybody eventually hits that RNG wall and people end up meeting them there. 

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Posted

Speaking of PVP, is it automatically unlocked upon reaching a certain level, or do you have to do a quest to unlock the ability to attack/be attacked?

 

it's a certain level to pvp and to be randomly attacked "Flagged on" i forget the level or if it's even the same level. 

 

I with that the pvp was more "Leveled" no one is EVER in the capped Redbattlefields. 

They should add some kind of incentive to participate in pvp and some kind of 1v1 structured thingy so i can learn my characters weaknesses and stuff (In nodewars i cant see anything just some one comes at me, i attack and then i'm in a fire/ice/ or thunder hell and then dead.)

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Posted

Speaking of PVP, is it automatically unlocked upon reaching a certain level, or do you have to do a quest to unlock the ability to attack/be attacked?

 

PvP Unlocks at level 50.

To reach level 50, you have to complete a quest to defeat a Catfishman Boss. The Black Spirit will start bugging you about it as soon as you hit 49.  If you don't do the quest, you will be at 49.999 forever.

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Posted

Speaking of PVP, is it automatically unlocked upon reaching a certain level, or do you have to do a quest to unlock the ability to attack/be attacked?

 

Didnt want to derail, but youve had an incomplete answer so heres the full one -

At 49.999 you will be given a quest to kill a Fat Catfishman (whose name is Quoobe i think, that name is in the quest name), you can do this quest, but once you hand it in you will be a big boy and able to be attacked.   For anyone to attack another person they must flag themselves for pvp (turns their name red, i tihkn you press Alt+C - ive never flagged so not certain) then they can attack players, once flagged anyone can attack them, if a blue name player dies there is no penalty, if a red name player dies there is a penalty, which varies from region to region.  You may choose not to complete this quest in which case youll be 49.999 forever (you may gain skillpoints but not levels).

 

I dont have much to add on topic, but to try and not leave the thread in a state of derailment -

Is putting PVP behind a PVE grind wall a good idea?  Probably not but it is how 99% of MMOs seem to do it, of course they dont also put it behind a RNG wall

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Posted

The game is perfect as it is, no need to open new topics to try to get a rejected point across any further man. 
I get it that you are fascinated with this World but if you want to have a shot at me go grind some of the nearly 10k hours I've put into the game since early access and then come and kill my noob sorryass gear-carried by all the life skills that I've done in 1 year. 

Be careful when you say "perfect". BDO is far from it but it's still a good game.

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Posted

Youre better off making this pitch it your job interveiw with the kakao marketing team

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Posted

if you want to PVP w/o GRINDING .
you should not play an MMO, you should play an ARENA game.

just my 2cent.

good luck in your search

I'm going to argue no.

Why? Because ENTITLED gamers aren't known for their patience. How many players do you think have set sail for other games having been unable to stomach the bore of the PVE grind? This game is a business, and for a business like this to garner more success, it requires players; and I suspect they're losing a LOT of players because of the excessive grind wall holding off a part of the game a huge section of gamers are trying to get to (PVP)..

PVP must be made more accessible early on, otherwise you're losing out on a huge market..

Some other recommendations would be :

-balance the grind with the progression

       +Currently the grind is to high for even a slight progression in a lot of people's eyes, this results in boredom.. You need to balance the grind so that people are making enough progress as to not get bored, while at the same time not making the grind too slight so that the game is over too quickly..

- Remove RNG elements.

      +The desire for fairness outweighs the excitement of winning the jackpot currently; people aren't falling for the RNG gimic anymore, and I see huge backlash against it ingame, and on the forums.. I suggest you drop your psychology textbooks and listen to your players..One thing you haven't taken into account with your RNG psychology : people learn..

 

 

older gamers are probably the people with most patience in the world.


you're thinking that WoW and League players = all gamers.
that's just false.

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Posted

Please stop assuming things for an entire population of gamers. thats no better than those claiming gaming should be banned because all games incite violence and drug abuse and murder

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Posted (edited)

This is pve midless grind of easy mobs game. There is no pvp, you can't attack anyone really, he will get pissed off and karma bomb you. 

There is so little done to improve game play experience, only work developers do are premium shop items, they don't care about anything else.

Whole game was made in shop in mind to force over frustrated players to use pearl shop.

 

I don't mind to spend money on games, I allready spent 150 euro on this game, but no matter what you do, sooner or later you will get burnout from mindless grind. 

The world boss mechanics was made only to sell more ressurection pearl shop items. The death penalty in general was made to sell more ress shop items. The weight and inventory limit as well. Same armor apparence to sell costumes. 

 

The gap beetween veteran and new or returning players is so high that you will never catch them, so there is no point to even try and better quit now if you are interested in pvp, but again there is no pvp at all. The red battlefield battleground is joke without reward and noone play it, it reflects the sorry state of the game pretty well. You want some fun? Nah go grind for next 200 hours ..

Edited by Desper

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Posted

Please stop assuming things for an entire population of gamers. thats no better than those claiming gaming should be banned because all games incite violence and drug abuse and murder

Exactly. My drug abuse and murdering was caused out of sheer pleasure from killing and a need to unwind afterwards.

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Posted

Exactly. My drug abuse and murdering was caused out of sheer pleasure from killing and a need to unwind afterwards.

Mine from getting -----ed by RNG over and over...

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Posted

You know, I read something once about people who answer their own questions.. 

 

You should just quit playing BDO. I mean, if you cant go out and PK someone and proceed to insult them to no end on how terrible a player they are because you just killed them.. for example...  You should just quit playing BDO. Its not worth it.

 

 

Please just quit

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Posted

There is no better thing than to go out in a vast open world without loading screens to go for resources and having to fight for them, loss or win, as it's all part of the progress of stat/skill improving your character. The only downside is the protection/cannot declare on systems. If they were gone then next up would the limiting karma system. On the other side I do see the others pov when it comes to karma system being godsend for them.

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Posted

I wouldn't mind having an arena with gear scaling. Just a place to slug it out with no repercussions in a setting where you know both you and your opponent are on the same level.

 

But on the other hand of that, I also think that the rest of the world itself could also benefit from a greater push towards a more 'wild west' approach to PvP. Give players a reason to hunt others down. Incentives shouldn't be an optimal route for anything, but there's a definite sense of tension that could be added to the world if they just emphasized that aspect a bit more.

 

Lastly, I think that the power curve of later levels and gear upgrades should be reduced, to ease the playing field a bit so that even chickenhawks don't get it for free.

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Posted

I'm going to argue no.

Why? Because gamers aren't known for their patience. How many players do you think have set sail for other games having been unable to stomach the bore of the PVE grind? This game is a business, and for a business like this to garner more success, it requires players; and I suspect they're losing a LOT of players because of the excessive grind wall holding off a part of the game a huge section of gamers are trying to get to (PVP)..

PVP must be made more accessible early on, otherwise you're losing out on a huge market..

Some other recommendations would be :

-balance the grind with the progression

       +Currently the grind is to high for even a slight progression in a lot of people's eyes, this results in boredom.. You need to balance the grind so that people are making enough progress as to not get bored, while at the same time not making the grind too slight so that the game is over too quickly..

- Remove RNG elements.

      +The desire for fairness outweighs the excitement of winning the jackpot currently; people aren't falling for the RNG gimic anymore, and I see huge backlash against it ingame, and on the forums.. I suggest you drop your psychology textbooks and listen to your players..One thing you haven't taken into account with your RNG psychology : people learn..

 

 

This game is a Korean grindy open world game. Just like Lineage 2 (but much easier).

And PvP is accessible early on. You can go to an arena an fight low lvl/low gear people. What happens normally is that people want to do high end PvP so is their problem, not developers. If people are lazy to not group each other with similar lvl/gear to PvP is their problem... this game, while isn't sandbox, is designed with the sandbox idea of "you are the one who decide your endgame, not the developer". That's why this game isn't PvP or PvE but PvPvE.

Grinding in this game is nice, fast and easy. Hell, this is the grindy game where you need to grind the least in comparison with the rest of grindy MMORPGs.

Where I agree is the RNG elements. But NOT the "RNG" but the punishment from failing. I would redesign the enhancement system to another one where you need more mats and even you have less % success chance but the gear won't be downgraded/destroyed.

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Posted

This is a crazy topic, really. It can go so many ways with the arguments for or against, if it is PvP or not, etc.

What it is, is another game trying to invite both the Wolves and the Sheep to the same damn dinner party. Any game that has decent PvP, that also has a decent life skill game play too, ends up with these feuds.  PvP players think they are entitled to the whole game world where they can just openly kill whoever is in sight.. PvE players feel that they shouldnt have to worry about mining some ore and get PK'd. (when the person killing clearly knows they are just a gatherer, wearing skill cloths, making them a one shot easy kill. neat.)

Really, it is what it is guys. And from my experience, you probably dont want BDO to step up and make changes to solve this. I would have to guess that if they do, it will result in a world where only certain areas will be PvP zones, much like the Red Battle Field. Maybe a continent that opens up in the future, for that matter. But it wont be catering MORE to PvP, believe that. It will cater more to the PvE players.

Just my opinion, just my view.. thats all I will say about that, but.. just think about something..  honestly, just how many PvP players are posting around here? You did somewhat write that OP in a way that sounds like you are speaking for the majority. Seems to me, its just a few of the same people with the PvP sucks posts. The majority, the bread and butter of the people posting here, are not the hard core PvP Gamers that you think dominates the population. Its a small group, ultimately.

 

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Posted

Emotion did an amazing thing with pve areas abs PvP areas. I think eve has then too. Bdo tried but failed spectacularly with the desert

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Posted (edited)

The intent of these posts aren't to resolve anything, but to push the pendulum back even further to PvP and to smother what's left of the PvE population. Kakao's bread and butter are the lifeskillers who plan to stick around long after the PvP becomes uninteresting for the PvP types and they move on. Let's hope they realize it sooner than later.

I expect a channel consolidation due to the drastic player population drop we've just had. That will edge out even more under-level and under-geared returning players. The gear gap between them will continue to widen. The only remedy left will be to gift Kzarkas and Dandelions on game purchase. Won't that be a day to remember.

 

Edited by oR-Bishop

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Posted

I'm neither advocate of pve or pvp, but here's my 2cents:

  • Make PVP incredibly lucrative (able to steal) but
  • make it incredibly punishing (as in by example, jail time (in term of days of months of able to do nothing in game, not even workers), removal of stolen items, higher xp loss...
  • ability to escape cell by rng attempts, or jailbreaks orchestrated by friendly team mates
  • ability to temporarily hide identity by usable items
  • Red pvp towns (town of bandits who kill non red players) as safe heavens for PK

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Posted

A year has past and its still the same subject lol. Literally read this kind of subjects a year ago.

As long as there is no benefits to pking aside for showing that youre a huge D-Bag and best karma farmer ever, this games owpvping system is and will always be what it is, a useless feature that d-bags like to use.

Theres really one thing that will make this game a great pvp game, and that is to provide incentives to doing so, but as ive read hundreds to thousands of times, those "hardcore" knucklehead pvpers are more than content with accumulating karma LOL, heck even the red village offers 0 benefits aside from the fact that its near a great grind spot. NOT EVEN HOUSES.


Also, the game (NA server at least) are showing more crowded status more and more, so I highly doubt its bleeding people left and right. 

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