• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

You need to stop pearl trading.

327 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Yeah cause the people who want it to stay keep repeating the same arguments, which then get refuted and they stop posting as they realize they are wrong. Then another guy comes along who hasn't read the thread and just repeats the same arguments that were refuted 2 pages ago.

OR we have this one guy who keeps changing the goalpost every time he loses the argument.

"get refuted"

More like get tired of trying to explain something to a couple of people whose only response is to continue on arguing by trying to make points based on incorrect assumptions. The only thing I see is a few people who don't want to admit that maybe they're overreacting about pearl trading and got shot down when they tried to flex that they should be listened to because they've played other games in the past. 

 

Edited by Cardiel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Yeah cause the people who want it to stay keep repeating the same arguments, which then get refuted

EDIT: All you have to do is look at TERA and compare the EU to NA. On EU the only reasonable way to get upgrade mats is to spend money and buy RNG boxes and the game is completely dead. NA TERA? Upgrade mats are easy to get from regular gameplay and the game is thriving.

As opposed to someone who lies because they can't make the same argument? Tera EU and NA, whilst under different publishers, have the same cash shop. RNG boxes exist in both which reward you with feedstock when you don't get the item. You also can buy alkahest boxes in both cash shops, so not sure why you're lying about this. As for TERA thriving? Using Steam numbers their population has dropped from an average of 10,391 to 1,991, they lost 3 core staff members within the space of 6 months (Minea, Tonka and Treeshark), their serves are going down every day and their forums are full of people claiming that the game is dead.

Maybe if you tried making an argument that wasn't a lie and stopped insulting people who pointed out that you're wrong, maybe then you'd have people replying to you. :) 

Edited by Plunge
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well, you are the one arguing that nothing will be listed in the marketplace without a pearl offer. With the additional implication that whoever is gifting pearls will get the item, leaving other players in the cold.

You have not actually shown any evidence of that being the case.

In fact, I have looked at marketplace numbers since DK release and you can see that about 50 Kzarka Kriegsmesser get posted a day.

Every player who wants one of those Kzarkas has a chance at them, either by putting in a pre-order or by going to the MP and bidding on them.

If anyone thinks that they have a better chance at getting an item because they are gifting pearls, then that's on them, but it's not really true.

Now where is your evidence that things are not being listed?

 

Indeed, I've yet to see any evidence that pearl trading is impacting the game in a negative way.

I saw someone advertising selling a lantern in world chat the other day for 6000 pearls. How many newbies did we lose over that, I wonder? People can't even grind at night anymore without opening their wallet!

Come on, people. Some of you veterans seem like you're salty about not getting a certain item and OP can't get over himself long enough to think that maybe BDO truly is handing this differently than games in the past. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well, you are the one arguing that nothing will be listed in the marketplace without a pearl offer. With the additional implication that whoever is gifting pearls will get the item, leaving other players in the cold.

You have not actually shown any evidence of that being the case.

In fact, I have looked at marketplace numbers since DK release and you can see that about 50 Kzarka Kriegsmesser get posted a day.

Every player who wants one of those Kzarkas has a chance at them, either by putting in a pre-order or by going to the MP and bidding on them.

If anyone thinks that they have a better chance at getting an item because they are gifting pearls, then that's on them, but it's not really true.

Now where is your evidence that things are not being listed?

 

yes, its pretty much this^^ lol more boss gear are getting listed than ever, (bought a tri kzarka Kriegsmesser the first day DK was out lol) and i, as someone who never offer pearls nor ask for pearls, have equal chance of buying these gear as someone who pays 10k pearls for it. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I strongly disagree. Peals in exchange for putting stuff on the market is great - makes the developer and publisher lots of money.

Them making money is great because all this does is further the life and quality of the game. PA is doing a complete rework of BDO, increasing texture quality and 3D models which is already awesome. It takes money to create content. If they sold PEN Kzarka on the market for $2500 each, I wouldn't mind them actually selling items that way.

Star Shititzen sells "in stock" ships for $15,000. BDO can do the same because its their game.

if this happens youd see me and most likely most of the friends i play with quit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

yes, its pretty much this^^ lol more boss gear are getting listed than ever, (bought a tri kzarka Kriegsmesser the first day DK was out lol) and i, as someone who never offer pearls nor ask for pearls, have equal chance of buying these gear as someone who pays 10k pearls for it. 

Watched a guy on a stream the other day get a notification for a DUO Kriegs, he ran over to the marketplace and patiently waited on it. Then taadaa, bought it. 

Weird, innit?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Watched a guy on a stream the other day get a notification for a DUO Kriegs, he ran over to the marketplace and patiently waited on it. Then taadaa, bought it. 

Weird, innit?

Kaenada's reaction to this

tenor.gif


 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Kaenada's reaction to this
tenor.gif


 

the guy cant handle the truth lol. "EVERYBODY IS WRONG EXCEPT FOR ME AND THEY CANT REFUTE IT!!".... yea 

Watched a guy on a stream the other day get a notification for a DUO Kriegs, he ran over to the marketplace and patiently waited on it. Then taadaa, bought it. 

Weird, innit?

yea, and the more weird thing is that most rare items rarely go to pre-order. I know tons of ppl who have 700mil - 1bil pre order on tri muskans, but each time, the boots just show up for bid, and everyone has equal chance to win it. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Well, you are the one arguing that nothing will be listed in the marketplace without a pearl offer. With the additional implication that whoever is gifting pearls will get the item, leaving other players in the cold.

You have not actually shown any evidence of that being the case.

In fact, I have looked at marketplace numbers since DK release and you can see that about 50 Kzarka Kriegsmesser get posted a day.

Every player who wants one of those Kzarkas has a chance at them, either by putting in a pre-order or by going to the MP and bidding on them.

If anyone thinks that they have a better chance at getting an item because they are gifting pearls, then that's on them, but it's not really true.

Now where is your evidence that things are not being listed?

 

Never said either of those things.

Because I've never said that

Ok

Never said that isn't the case.

Until people start holding out on them, never claimed it's like that now.

Evidence of a claim I never made? I dunno, did you check wherever you pull this shit from?

 

Now, if you want to argue about something I've ACTUALLY said, by all means.

Edited by Kaenada

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Never said either of those things.

Because I've never said that

Ok

Never said that isn't the case.

Until people start holding out on them, never claimed it's like that now.

Evidence of a claim I never made? I dunno, did you check wherever you pull this shit from?

 

Now, if you want to argue about something I've ACTUALLY said, by all means.

OK. Then here is your OP:

I don't care how many times this has been posted before but pearl trading for items needs to stop, now.

You might think it gives you money, and it will in the short term for sure but in the long term more and more people will get sick of it and then you have no one left but the minority that buy pearls because everything else becomes worthless, and then you'll lose those people too because they have no one to play with.

Remove the ability to gift pearls or otherwise trade real money for in-game things before it's too late. Go ask Trion how ArcheAge is doing if you want to know what will happen when the only feasible way to stay relevant is to spend 200e on the game. The model DOES. NOT. WORK. in the western market.

That is all.

Summary: Pearl trading is bad. No reason given.

Follow up post:

And you're shortsighted and naive.

What happens when NOTING is put on the market without pearl trading? 95% of the players who don't spend 100e a month on a game will stop playing, then who do you have to trade things with when no one is farming stuff for you to buy?

Then you'll cry "ohemgee game is ded" and you have nothing but pearl trading to blame. I'm not a poor person, I can afford to waste money on pearls but I've also played enough MMO's in the past 20 years to know EXACTLY what it leads to. You won't keep playing when there's 100 people online at peak hours and who is going to support the game then? You and your 5 friends? Yeah no.

 

EDIT: All you have to do is look at TERA and compare the EU to NA. On EU the only reasonable way to get upgrade mats is to spend money and buy RNG boxes and the game is completely dead. NA TERA? Upgrade mats are easy to get from regular gameplay and the game is thriving.

Summary: People will stop listing items if they are not offered pearls. No evidence given of such a trend.

What are you on about? I said ArcheAge was ruined, not this game - yet.

I really wish people would take the time to actually read and comprehend what they're replying to.

 

The game is doing fantastic -NOW- but if they keep allowing pearl trading more and more items are going to be solely sold via pearls making silver completely pointless meaning only the tiny minority that can spend 100e a month on a game will be left playing because everyone else has no reason to play because they can't/won't spend money on pearls.

It's not really a complex concept, please understand what I'm saying before you reply. I've already spent 80e on this game in the last 10d since I started to buy 2 outfits for my 2 chars, 2 pets and a 30d premium, I'm not living in poverty or anything but I will never, ever pay real life money to get items like horses or weapons out of principle.

Name ONE successful game in the western market where the only feasible way to progress is to pay real money for it. You won't find one as they are all dead and my concern is that this game will follow suit if they keep allowing pearl trading.

Summary: Nobody will be able to buy things unless they shell out pearls. This does not work with current game mechanics.

Where are all the horses in the game?

Oh yeah, you can buy a decent one with pearl gifting only. That's one market already destroyed by it completely. How is that not a problem again?

This is one area where pearl gifting *can* work, but that's not a guarantee. (I tried to sell a level 1 T6 to a guildie so she could start out and the horse poofed so fast, she accidentally bought the next one that got listed).

This ignores several factors that keep people from listing horses on the marketplace (exchanging them for an extra breed, selling to Imperial Trader for seals in preparation of a T9).  It also completely ignores the fact that it's damn nigh impossible to get a *decent*  horse without putting pearls into skill changes. Possibly quite a bit of it too.

So no, people are not sitting on stables full of T8 horses with all courser skills just waiting for someone to offer them enough pearls to sell them.  Some people may sell them for pearls, but most breeders are still working on getting decent horses. T8s don't drop out of the sky, unfortunately.

Now, that I've read your posts again, I have to ask, what *is* the point you are trying to make?

"Pearl gifting is bad because it *might* affect the marketplace in the future?"

I mean, English is my third language, but I do believe my reading comprehension is pretty good.

 

 

So can you please present an actual argument?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

OK. Then here is your OP:

Summary: Pearl trading is bad. No reason given.

Follow up post:

Summary: People will stop listing items if they are not offered pearls. No evidence given of such a trend.

Summary: Nobody will be able to buy things unless they shell out pearls. This does not work with current game mechanics.

This is one area where pearl gifting *can* work, but that's not a guarantee. (I tried to sell a level 1 T6 to a guildie so she could start out and the horse poofed so fast, she accidentally bought the next one that got listed).

This ignores several factors that keep people from listing horses on the marketplace (exchanging them for an extra breed, selling to Imperial Trader for seals in preparation of a T9).  It also completely ignores the fact that it's damn nigh impossible to get a *decent*  horse without putting pearls into skill changes. Possibly quite a bit of it too.

So no, people are not sitting on stables full of T8 horses with all courser skills just waiting for someone to offer them enough pearls to sell them.  Some people may sell them for pearls, but most breeders are still working on getting decent horses. T8s don't drop out of the sky, unfortunately.

Now, that I've read your posts again, I have to ask, what *is* the point you are trying to make?

"Pearl gifting is bad because it *might* affect the marketplace in the future?"

I mean, English is my third language, but I do believe my reading comprehension is pretty good.

 

 

So can you please present an actual argument?

Summary: I can't read.

I can't be bothered explaining it to every moron who can't understand the point.

When the next tier of gear comes out and the demand for it far exceeds the supply, you'll see.

Edited by Kaenada

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Summary: I can't read.

Once again, fails to provide a concrete rebuttal. Says people are taking him/her out of context. We quote his/her posts, then reply. He/she comes back with avoiding the reply by insulting the person.

Steve-Carell-Facepalm.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Now where is your evidence that things are not being listed? 

yes, its pretty much this^^ lol more boss gear are getting listed than ever, 

Because your looking at the wrong numbers, "things" get listed indeed, but the availability of this "things" isn't the same to both sides : Pearl # noPearl.
- Elementary level Example : 
>100 peoples looking for a Dande weapon, 1 Player among them is willing to Gift Pearls.
The Seller can :

  • Modify the item Enhancements level to focus on the Target specific Pre-order = Logically improved the target Chance at the pre-order vs the rest.
  • Modify the time of the listing = Logically improving the chances of the target vs those online at that specific time, and easily proven with basic maths.

>The result : 1 Dande weapon was indeed Listed, The number your looking at, but it wasn't Available to all those looking for it, and it was posted in a specific Conditions to improve the Target Chances, because of Pearl Gifting.

As for the individual experiences posted above : "i saw X Listed, and bough it", Have no place in a Probability argument, just because you rolled a 6 on your first try # You will keep rolling that 6. 

The only thing a seller can do is list the item at an odd time in the hopes that no one else can grab it, but since you like to focus on "chance" please explain to me how the buyer has a better chance of getting the item over someone who is also looking at the marketplace at the same time?

Is it really difficult to understand how the Target Chance get higher with Less peoples looking at the Market ? The pre-made conditions cannot Guarantee an item to get sold to the Target, but it's Mathematically guaranteed to prove his Chances.

I beg you, actually play the game before coming onto the forums to argue about it. :) 

It's quite ironic for you to Spam this advice, when you have yet to understand the importance of maximizing your Chances, in an RNG based Game. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The problem is that people are making bold assertions about the playerbase; most of whom don't visit the forum, probably don't even remotely care about this issue and many of them are likely completely unaware of it.

Yes, you can improve your chances of getting an item via co-ordinating trades post pearl but ultimately there is still no guarantee whatsoever; and if you're foolish enough to give someone real life money to post an item you *might* get then you earned your disappointment when you don't get it.

 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

 

Because your looking at the wrong numbers, "things" get listed indeed, but the availability of this "things" isn't the same to both sides : Pearl # noPearl.
- Elementary level Example : 
>100 peoples looking for a Dande weapon, 1 Player among them is willing to Gift Pearls.
The Seller can :

  • Modify the item Enhancements level to focus on the Target specific Pre-order = Logically improved the target Chance at the pre-order vs the rest.
  • Modify the time of the listing = Logically improving the chances of the target vs those online at that specific time, and easily proven with basic maths.

>The result : 1 Dande weapon was indeed Listed, The number your looking at, but it wasn't Available to all those looking for it, and it was posted in a specific Conditions to improve the Target Chances, because of Pearl Gifting.

As for the individual experiences posted above : "i saw X Listed, and bough it", Have no place in a Probability argument, just because you rolled a 6 on your first try # You will keep rolling that 6. 

 

Is it really difficult to understand how the Target Chance get higher with Less peoples looking at the Market ? The pre-made conditions cannot Guarantee an item to get sold to the Target, but it's Mathematically guaranteed to prove his Chances.

It's quite ironic for you to Spam this advice, when you have yet to understand the importance of maximizing your Chances, in an RNG based Game. 

And without the data of how many people got the item from using the Pearl Trading avenue, you cannot say that it has effected things in the way you are trying to say either.

Do you know what times the items are being purchased? At what time in the day they are being posted? How many sales went to people who had a pre-order up for the item? How many sales were from someone who had a Notification up and had an alt at the MP ready to buy the item? How many sales were from Guild Members holding onto an item and posting it in off hours so a Guildy could have a chance at buying the item not during Prime Time?


Basically its all speculation. But since we do not see a fluctuation in items posted. This argument is anecdotal at best. Its the "perception" that things are out of hand, because people are spamming in chat. And a few unlucky people may have been scammed, but that is no different than people being scammed by other means in MMOs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

 

Because your looking at the wrong numbers, "things" get listed indeed, but the availability of this "things" isn't the same to both sides : Pearl # noPearl.
- Elementary level Example : 
>100 peoples looking for a Dande weapon, 1 Player among them is willing to Gift Pearls.
The Seller can :

  • Modify the item Enhancements level to focus on the Target specific Pre-order = Logically improved the target Chance at the pre-order vs the rest.
  • Modify the time of the listing = Logically improving the chances of the target vs those online at that specific time, and easily proven with basic maths.

>The result : 1 Dande weapon was indeed Listed, The number your looking at, but it wasn't Available to all those looking for it, and it was posted in a specific Conditions to improve the Target Chances, because of Pearl Gifting.

As for the individual experiences posted above : "i saw X Listed, and bough it", Have no place in a Probability argument, just because you rolled a 6 on your first try # You will keep rolling that 6. 

 

Consider this, though:

The 99 people not willing to pay pearls for something put a notification for the Dande at ALL enchant gears.  They may have even kept an eye on which levels were most likely to go to pre-order and placed a pre-order at that same level.

For someone to buy something at off-hours, they would either be willing to disrupt their sleep schedule or live in a very fortunate time zone.  You still can't sell a Dande in secret.

This game taught me all about not trusting chances of anything, tbh. :-P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

SluM0XB.png

Seems to be working quite while for a niche Korean MMO. :) 

That depends if it is counting all characters on an account or just characters over level 56. That value could be heavily inflated. You need to count unique logins of concurrent players for player population to have any meaning. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

That depends if it is counting all characters on an account or just characters over level 56. That value could be heavily inflated. You need to count unique logins of concurrent players for player population to have any meaning. 

That number is actually accounts created since launch. Not people actually playing the game.

If you look at the infographic, you will also see just over 90k character over 56. Considering many people have more than one 56+, I'd say a population of about 40-50k would be a reasonable estimate per server.

https://www.blackdesertonline.com/news/view/350

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 Because your looking at the wrong numbers, "things" get listed indeed, but the availability of this "things" isn't the same to both sides : Pearl # noPearl.
- Elementary level Example : 
>100 peoples looking for a Dande weapon, 1 Player among them is willing to Gift Pearls.
The Seller can :
  • Modify the item Enhancements level to focus on the Target specific Pre-order = Logically improved the target Chance at the pre-order vs the rest.
  • Modify the time of the listing = Logically improving the chances of the target vs those online at that specific time, and easily proven with basic maths.

 

yeaa.... no... i only buy tri and tet gear... so from what i have seen, yea, alot more of these gear have been listed recently because some bright folks are paying irl cash for a CHANCE to win one of those babies... but these gear are up for grabs for everyone who has a notification setup. heck, if i dont have a job and live like a hermit, i could just sit in front of my computer all day and watch for these notifications.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There is a 10-15 minute queue for that kind of item.  Only pearl items list in a minute or two.

You're right, my bad.

So anyone who wants boss gear and has their wits about them will have notifications set up for all enchant levels of said gear. When they see a notification, they will wait a minute or two to see if it goes to pre-order or not, and if it does not go to pre-order either log onto an alt, haul their derrière to the Marketplace NCP in the town where they have their money, or summon a maid to wait for the item to show up.

Every post you makes just confirms that you don't actually play this game.

Wow, both of you are at the keyboard, playing the game, watching for notifications 24 hours per day/7 days per week? If so, then I apologize. Clearly you are not at all at a disadvantage compared to a buyer and a seller who can coordinate the item listing to occur at any time of day and day of week that they think best to avoid sniping from other players. 

Otherwise, your posts are great examples of being deliberately obtuse. 

Well, you are the one arguing that nothing will be listed in the marketplace without a pearl offer. With the additional implication that whoever is gifting pearls will get the item, leaving other players in the cold.

You have not actually shown any evidence of that being the case.

In fact, I have looked at marketplace numbers since DK release and you can see that about 50 Kzarka Kriegsmesser get posted a day.

Sorry, do you have evidence that I don't know about that those items are being listed without a pearl offer? I ask because I genuinely do not see how we could tell one way or the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Sorry, do you have evidence that I don't know about that those items are being listed without a pearl offer? I ask because I genuinely do not see how we could tell one way or the other.

Do you have any evidence to show that they are? That burden of proof would lie with the asserter, that being the person who is asserting that highly sought items are only (or even usually) listed when the seller is paid in pearls these days.

There's no way to tell one way or the other, but it doesn't matter. Items are being listed, everyone who sees the notification or puts up a pre-order has a chance to grab it. Therein lines the crux of what people are trying to explain, that:

A) There is not a decrease of items being listed. These items that are being sold for pearls have always been in great demand, the supply has always been too small. 

B) "Safe" trades are absolutely impossible even if you try to increase your chances by listing it at an odd enhancement level, at an off hour.

C) We know for a fact that people are buying items off the marketplace who did not pay pearls for them to be listed.

This is the problem with forecasting doom and gloom based on nothing but what you think might happen eventually, based on other games with completely different systems while ignoring what's actually going on (i.e. People are still purchasing boss armor the old fashioned way, by waiting around for it to pop up on the marketplace, by rolling the NV, and by doing bosses). Yes, some people are throwing money away to get an item listed but I would argue that your perception of how many people actually partake in that as being incredibly skewed because you don't see that many people spamming "WTB Dande! Trading No Pearls!" They just wait until one goes up or get it themselves. No, you don't need full TET boss gear and 200AP to parse high enough on boss tables to get boxes. No, there are no guilds that're swarming bosses and overtaking the boss gear market and then holding it all hostage while they rake in pearls. That's nothing but pure misinformation.

I think pearl trading will stick around if only because some players have the means to spend that sort of money on bad decisions in video games. Still, that doesn't mean they're going to take over the market, because the game is intentionally designed to work against plasyer to player trading and because for most people who live within a budget, it's a bad idea to pay $60 for a chance at pixels when you really, really don't have to to get those pixels.

The only area that I think it could be an issue in is the horse trading scene, because horses don't have game-wide notifications and go up immediately. It's much easier to arrange a snipe, though it's still not 100% safe. There's also the issue of horse breeding almost requiring a decent amount of pearls to produce a T8, and I genuinely believe T8s don't get sold anymore unless they're sold for pearls or to guildmates/friends as gifts. But that's an entirely different problem that's completely and utterly separate from marketplaces and has to do with the value of T8s vs. the effort and real life money spent on horse training to get a T8, not pearl gifting.

 

Edited by Cardiel
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Do you have any evidence to show that they are? That burden of proof would lie with the asserter, that being the person who is asserting that highly sought items are only (or even usually) listed when the seller is paid in pearls these days.

Nice try. The assertion we're talking about was that boss gear being listed was evidence against pearl selling being a limiting factor in the supply of boss gear, and it was made by AlnilamE.. On its own, boss gear being listed isn't evidence against--or for--pearl selling limiting the supply of boss gear, because we have no way to track when and for what reason that gear is being listed.

I would not argue that we have clear evidence that pearl selling accounts for all--or even most--listings of high-tier items, because we don't have that level of accuracy in the information available to us. But there is abundant evidence that it is happening frequently--not least of which is that BDO's management felt compelled to publicize the risks and rules associated with it, to say nothing of the people advertising it, the people saying they have done it, and the people complaining about trying to do it and getting scammed.

I will note that "frequently" doesn't necessarily mean a large fraction, but it also doesn't necessarily mean a small fraction either. We simply don't have that level of resolution.

A) There is not a decrease of items being listed. These items that are being sold for pearls have always been in great demand, the supply has always been too small. 

To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence that this is in fact the case. Do you have data about the rate of posting prior to pearl selling being allowed? If so, I'd love to see some screenshots of that.

B) "Safe" trades are absolutely impossible even if you try to increase your chances by listing it at an odd enhancement level, at an off hour.

I've noted the same thing myself a number of times. So what? It is still easily possible to vastly improve your chances of obtaining the item by arranging a listing time when most people aren't even online.

C) We know for a fact that people are buying items off the marketplace who did not pay pearls for them to be listed.

I don't know this for a fact, but it certainly seems very likely. Even so, so what? Does the problem magically disappear if the probability of a non-pearl spender obtaining an item, relative to the probability of a pearl spender obtaining that same item is any number at all greater than zero? 

Of course not. The lower that relative probability gets below 1, the bigger the problem becomes.

I have said it before: this is not an all-or-none issue. You can continue to treat it like one if you'd like, but that's you ignoring reality--not me.

No, you don't need full TET boss gear and 200AP to parse high enough on boss tables to get boxes. No, there are no guilds that're swarming bosses and overtaking the boss gear market and then holding it all hostage while they rake in pearls. That's nothing but pure misinformation.

I can make straw men and watch them burn too. For example:

No, not every person playing the game runs to the marketplace every time boss gear shows up just so they can snipe it away from potential pearl sellers. No, not every person who shows up at a boss fight has the same chances of getting the best loot at the end. That's nothing but pure misinformation.

That was fun, but it didn't get us much of anywhere, did it.

I think pearl trading will stick around if only because some players have the means to spend that sort of money on bad decisions in video games. Still, that doesn't mean they're going to take over the market, because the game is intentionally designed to work against plasyer to player trading and because for most people who live within a budget, it's a bad idea to pay $60 for a chance at pixels when you really, really don't have to to get those pixels.

The phrase "It won't take over because most people will really get screwed in ways they can't afford to get screwed if they do it" is not a good defense of pearl trading--if anything, it's a strong indictment of the practice.

The game already provides people who want to throw money at the game for power a mechanism to do so: the in-game RMT market, which is carefully regulated to prevent scams and limit P2W elements of the game. The pearl market doesn't protect pearl sellers, doesn't have a cap on how P2W a player can go, and was never an intended role of pearl gifting mechanisms in the first place.

If the game management wants to boost sales of pearl items, they could enable in-game RMT sales of a wider range of what's in the pearl shop; they could increase and standardize the exchange rate between cash shop expenses and silver returns; they could increase the number of items per week that a player can buy and post. All of those options ensure that they don't end up screwing over the very people this game's revenue stream is going to increasingly rely on, while keeping clear and well-defined limits on the gains that cash provides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I don't care how many times this has been posted before but pearl trading for items needs to stop, now.

You might think it gives you money, and it will in the short term for sure but in the long term more and more people will get sick of it and then you have no one left but the minority that buy pearls because everything else becomes worthless, and then you'll lose those people too because they have no one to play with.

Remove the ability to gift pearls or otherwise trade real money for in-game things before it's too late. Go ask Trion how ArcheAge is doing if you want to know what will happen when the only feasible way to stay relevant is to spend 200e on the game. The model DOES. NOT. WORK. in the western market.

That is all.

I hear your concerns about Pay to Win elements of the game as I completely sympathize with you when it came to ArcheAge.  However BDO is no where NEAR the pay to win level AA was.  

1) Pearl Gifting is a big gamble.  The majority of the time the guy offering pearls loses the marketplace bid and ends up losing half of the pearls he promised the seller (that is if the seller is stupid enough to not ask for half up front)  So "gifting" pearls is just a losing deal to begin with. 

2) You get very little silver return for the real world dollars you put in to try and sell cash shop items on the marketplace.  You're limited to 5 sales a week so the max profit you can make is 125 million silver which the average player can make in 1-2 days of playing depending on their node empire.   I can make 30-60 mil passively a day with just my node empire.  So spending $150 real world dollars for something you can make in 1-2 days of semi active play is not worth it.   Its an act of desperation amongst the heavy pay to win folks or someone trying to buy something on the marketplace that they can't quite afford and that 125 mil will give them the amount they need to complete the purchase. 

3) the gear ceiling in this game has greatly diminishing returns.  Once you hit 220 AP and 280 DP which is all Tri level boss gear (which is obtainable by nearly any player) you really don't get much in noticeable gains.  At that point your skill is what carries you and everyone is more or less on an equal playing field (so long as you have enough accuracy to counter high evasion builds lol)

In short BDO is like 3.5/10 on the pay to win scale.  Sure you can use the cash shop to get a head a little quicker but you're taling like 1-3 months progression ahead of the average player which unlike AA because of BDO's gear ceiling and diminishing returns the average player WILL catch up to because once you're at 220-230 AP there isn't really any progression that is going to make a significant difference.   You can be in all Tri gear and PWN someone in all PEN gear with skill.   Or a Grab chain... or a cheezy wizard ultimate...  or you know... team work. 

4) And lastly. Pearl shop gifting has been in the game for over 4 months now and the population of the game is STEADILY GROWING.  If it was a problem I think we'd see the population going the other way.  People are coming back to the game because they realize the P2W fears were over exaggerated previously and they have seen it not truly effect the game in a negative way.  I've been playing since launch and it seems like every day more and more channels are crowded especially on the weekends and resources are becoming scarcer and scarcer because the demand is outstripping the supply.  I can't even buy blackstone powder anymore and the damn crystals are so expensive that even grinding crystals isn't a cheap way to get it anymore LOL.  

So Again I sympathize with your fears having come from playing Archeage for 2 years before moving to black desert... but I can assure you BDO is not the same nor even remotely close to the level of P2W that was in that game. 

Edited by JoeBravo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

why we need pearl trading, Kakao you can sell gear directly, its the same just without third party. (imbecils will still say its not p2w). We came to a stage were every idiot started to try scam and sell their donkeys for pearls. I just imagine what will be when it will go free to play, Russian gold websites solutes you kakao!

Edited by TuckerLT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Where are all the horses in the game?

Oh yeah, you can buy a decent one with pearl gifting only. That's one market already destroyed by it completely. How is that not a problem again?

People stop breeding because the RNG is too punishing to get a T8.

Look at the statistics : 85 T8 horses on the EU release (2 are mine).

85 on 1M5 people playing? This is why the horse market is downsizing because breeding cost a lot of time to sell a t8 horse between 120 to 200 m while a fisher will do about 50-80M without doing anything, without pearls to breed.

Then, don't speak about horses because it seems u don't know about it.

We can easily find everything in bdo and PA gift every month a high ranked item. You are free to don't buy to somebody who wants pearls to sell an item.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.