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Pets are overall real cancer, specially T4s.


137 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I know what you are saying. True Pay to Win means you buy your progress and you have no choice.

pay to win has nothing to do with choice.

if two players play the game in the same way, the same amount—but one player gets an advantage over the other because he's thrown a bunch of money at the game, then it's P2W. if paying extra money gives you more of an advantage in the game, then it's p2w. if one person pays money to have: better experience, enchantment success, faster looting, faster horses, underwater breathing, more inventory space, a higher weight limit, a longer range horse call, better chances at breeding better horses, currency to trade for high-level items, reset combat skills, recover durability faster, free rez, larger stable, distant node investment, +30% marketplace sell gain, larger storage limit, and even more that i'm just too lazy to type out, then the game is p2w.

also tera's combat was bad so you didn't miss much anyway

Edited by AmagicalFishy
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Posted

I have no problem getting x5 Tier 4 pets and most of them came from marketplace except 1 from Conqueror's package and x4 i actually bought at the start of the game.

I did also get t3+t3=t3 from my experience but two of my pets went t4 with t2+t3 so what gives p2w.

 

PET1.JPG

PET2.JPG

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Posted

I have no problem getting x5 Tier 4 pets and most of them came from marketplace except 1 from Conqueror's package and x4 i actually bought at the start of the game.

I did also get t3+t3=t3 from my experience but two of my pets went t4 with t2+t3 so what gives p2w.

 

PET1.JPG

PET2.JPG

Those skills tho, damn, I'm jelly, I'd pay good money if those were at least guaranteed, but I could end up with lifeskills boosts only which isnt worth it imo.

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Posted

Try leveling the pets to 10 before breeding. I hear that helps.

Sad thing is you already paid your $, so complaining now is kinda pointless, dontcha think?

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Posted (edited)

pay to win has nothing to do with choice.

if two players play the game in the same way, the same amount—but one player gets an advantage over the other because he's thrown a bunch of money at the game, then it's P2W. if paying extra money gives you more of an advantage in the game, then it's p2w. if one person pays money to have: better experience, enchantment success, faster looting, faster horses, underwater breathing, more inventory space, a higher weight limit, a longer range horse call, better chances at breeding better horses, currency to trade for high-level items, reset combat skills, recover durability faster, free rez, larger stable, distant node investment, +30% marketplace sell gain, larger storage limit, and even more that i'm just too lazy to type out, then the game is p2w.

also tera's combat was bad so you didn't miss much anyway

I think your definition of P2W is the problem here.  Its not about time played.  Especially in BDO.  Just because you've spent more time in-game means you're guaranteed to be better?  Not at all.  What you do with that time matters.  My point is this, throw as much money as you want at the game, you will not have an advantage over a player of equal level and gear score.  A game is P2W when a player can achieve something solely through the use of money, regardless of time/effort spent.  ANYONE can reach level 60.  You don't have to pay to do so.  Anyone can gather loot.  How fast you can or how much you can carry is a convenience thing.  And convenience items are not P2W.

The game is p2w, that fact is clear as water like 1+1=2, I don't get all these ppl defending the game saying it's not, low IQ?

Just because you say so?  This game is clearly not P2W.  Its as simple 2+2=4.  

Edited by KILLZ0NE

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Posted

Just because you say so?  This game is clearly not P2W.  Its as simple 2+2=4.  

Sure, because selling cash shop items to get silver isn't p2w, because all the benefits you can buy on the shop aren't p2w, because all the offers to sell high-end items in exchange for Pearls ($$$$$$$$$$$$$) isn't p2w.

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Posted

RNG is like 100x more toxic than P2W believe me. A game needs P2W because it's the only way to keep it alive. And there is nothing wrong with it when u know exactly what u receive by paying how much of ur $$$.

What we don't need is Cancer RNG that basically force u to gamble in order to progress. Because u will never know how much is enough to achieve ur goal, thus making ppl pay excessive amount of $$$ by falsely making them believe in "chances". It's the psychology of gambling.

RNG is fine if there is an alternative way but in right now BDO the only way to progress is gambling.

This has to be the most retarded thing I've read all day (although the day is just starting, you still have time to top this). Can we actually mention, to begin with, that there is no such thing as F2P in BDO? I mean, I know this is 2017 and you are expected to dump at least $1000 into a game before being considered a worthless freeloader, but still... the game is buy to play. So technically, everyone who plays the game have already contributed financially.

The "cancer RNG" is there to make idiots pay more than a reasonable amount, and do that continuously (because you are less likely to pay $1000 upfront, but in smaller increments it doesn't seem as bad). You'll still get what you want eventually, it will just cost you. You seem fine with p2w, or is it just fine as long as you can afford it?

I also want to mention games like Overwatch or CS:GO, both of which have playerbases probably orders of magnitude larger than BDO, and managing to stay alive just fine with only cosmetic purchases.

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Posted

Try leveling the pets to 10 before breeding. I hear that helps.

Sad thing is you already paid your $, so complaining now is kinda pointless, dontcha think?

It really does not, if it does it's not noticable at all.

Also did we talk about pet skils? :D

f8368fdecc700d7a3145c426b93f489b.png

not all are 2.5. Once I get back home need to screenshot my red panda but it is 2.8 i think

Sorry for slow answer, they are all 2.5 unless they aren't level 10, if your panda is level 8 or 9 it is at 2.8S

I have 7 different types of T4's, they are all at 2.5

Bird, Cat, Dog, Panda, Cerberus, Ghost and the witch cat.

I also want to mention games like Overwatch or CS:GO, both of which have playerbases probably orders of magnitude larger than BDO, and managing to stay alive just fine with only cosmetic purchases.

Are you joking? These games are competative FPS games. That has nothing to do with MMO's, you can't compare them at all.
You can't have p2w aspects in actual Esport games.
However an MMO will NEVER be an Esport.
Even the beloved WoW is slightly p2w, with it's bought level what is it now 95, that you can sell subscriptions etc. Not to mention you can literally buy the best gear in that game with gold as well.

 

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Posted

 

Are you joking? These games are competative FPS games. That has nothing to do with MMO's, you can't compare them at all.You can't have p2w aspects in actual Esport games.
However an MMO will NEVER be an Esport.

While the above is correct, it also doesn't mean that an MMO for some reason has to contain p2w elements to work. And I can easily compare the above games to BDO on the basis that they are being constantly worked on, have running costs (official servers) and manage just fine by selling cosmetics only.

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I think your definition of P2W is the problem here.  Its not about time played.  Especially in BDO.  Just because you've spent more time in-game means you're guaranteed to be better?  Not at all.  What you do with that time matters.  My point is this, throw as much money as you want at the game, you will not have an advantage over a player of equal level and gear score.  A game is P2W when a player can achieve something solely through the use of money, regardless of time/effort spent.  ANYONE can reach level 60.  You don't have to pay to do so.  Anyone can gather loot.  How fast you can or how much you can carry is a convenience thing.  And convenience items are not P2W.

Just because you say so?  This game is clearly not P2W.  Its as simple 2+2=4.  

... why does the fact that anyone can loot or get 60 matter? you're totally neglecting the fact that it becomes a lot easier for people to do these things if they spend money. by that logic, we should have high-level gear in the cash shop, or cash-shop packs that directly give you millions of silver. why? because anyone can get silver, right? and all that has to be done to make that high-level gear a super-rare drop from some boss. so, since anyone can get it, those aspects are not p2w either.

the fact is that paying money lets you do all those things way faster and way more efficiently. the fact is that, someone who pays, will get a particular gear score and particular level much faster than someone who doesn't, spending less time to do so

saying "you will not have an advantage over a player of equal level and gear score" conveniently circumvents actual p2w aspects—which is the advantage gained when attempting to reach a certain level and gear score.

trying to make a differentiation between "convenience" and "advantage" is another silly word game—they're the same things. it's convenient to buy strong gear and it's convenient to buy packs of millions of silver instead of having to farm it. there isn't a difference, and it's silly to try to act like there is one, then turn around and use that as some justification for why something isn't p2w

people who say these things aren't p2w seem to be trying progressively harder and harder to justify it.

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Posted (edited)

All this talk about MMO companies surviving.. until some years ago this type of games were subscription-based for 10-12 euro a month with no cash shop whatsoever and "survived" just fine.

Are you also ignoring the fact Kakao made at least $100 million last year? (and $1.3 billion overall as a company). they make hundreds of times more than they need to pay for the staff and servers etc.

Edited by Shiraishin
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Posted

If that is your whole argument for a faulty system ... 

There's people that will never be able to get T4's regardless of how much money they sink in the game, I've maxed out weight on 3 different characters and still yet have to see my first T4 pet ever. How's that a fair system?

 

T4's are essential if you want to be anywhere near competitive. Claiming they're not needed as clarification is short sighted and silly.

No its not. Nobody needs a T4. 4 level 10 T1s do just fine. If you are really fast at grinding then T3 would pretty much cover everything. T4 is min-maxy and just isn't necessary.

What does weight have to do with pet RNG? 

 

 

All this talk about MMO companies surviving.. until some years ago this type of games were subscription-based for 10-12 euro a month with no cash shop whatsoever and "survived" just fine.

Are you also ignoring the fact Kakao made at least $100 million last year? (and $1.3 billion overall as a company). they make hundreds of times more than they need to pay for the staff and servers etc.

Give me their net profit then you will have an argument.

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Posted

 

Give me their net profit then you will have an argument.

67.17 billion Korean won (however that translatates into the currency you use)  according to statista.com, which is dramatically down from the previous two years due to them investing in other ventures and expanding their mobile stuff overseas etc. Not arguing, just thought I'd drop that in there as I was just looking it up.
 

All this talk about MMO companies surviving.. until some years ago this type of games were subscription-based for 10-12 euro a month with no cash shop whatsoever and "survived" just fine.

Are you also ignoring the fact Kakao made at least $100 million last year? (and $1.3 billion overall as a company). they make hundreds of times more than they need to pay for the staff and servers etc.


I agree with the companies ability to survive via other means and I really do think the RNG based milking machine which it currently is, is off putting and a bit of a gamble fest. The thing is though, Daum Kakoa is a big company out there with the sole incentive of making money. They don't even specialise in mmos, it's not their biggest money maker, it's an on the side income generator. The people who will care, the devs/gms/mods etc, will have their hands completely tied. They can feed back to their bosses but at the end of the day, if the person sitting at the top trying to maximise profit thinks that the current model is working, they won't change anything.

If they were losing profits from things like pets, they would change it. They aren't, so the don't. People are constantly saying, "they lose profit if they keep it at this price/this way." But you're talking about some of the best business minds spearheading a money making company, checking every prediction or target and whether or not it's met. They know what they're talking about and how to make money. And this whole, "they could totally survive on subscription/lower prices etc" - They don't care about surviving, they care about maximising profit which keeps them in their jobs and keeps the shareholders happy. The game developers might have a say in the content which is added or changed, but when it's comes to prices they're shut out and it's the company who pays them that has the final say. 

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Posted

67.17 billion Korean won (however that translatates into the currency you use)  according to statista.com, which is dramatically down from the previous two years due to them investing in other ventures and expanding their mobile stuff overseas etc. Not arguing, just thought I'd drop that in there as I was just looking it up

 Thanks! That translates to about 60M USD. Korean Won doesn't have much worth equaling 0.00089 USD. 

60M sounds like a lot, but it takes money to make money and that money can disappear fast. They aren't as rich as people make them out to be.

 

I mean the RNG is frustrating no doubt, but it isn't the worst model ever. It makes things still feasible for free players. The only item i'd consider 'essential' are 4 level 10 T1 pets.

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Posted

The "cancer RNG" is there to make idiots pay more than a reasonable amount, and do that continuously (because you are less likely to pay $1000 upfront, but in smaller increments it doesn't seem as bad). You'll still get what you want eventually, it will just cost you. You seem fine with p2w, or is it just fine as long as you can afford it?

You got a big mouth dude, but I have to agree with this one, anything else u said is worthless though. I'm not really a fan of P2W so don't talk to me again about it, I only mention it because P2W is still more reasonable than RNG, although it is probably EVIL as well.

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Posted

It really does not, if it does it's not noticable at all.

Also did we talk about pet skils? :D

f8368fdecc700d7a3145c426b93f489b.png

Sorry for slow answer, they are all 2.5 unless they aren't level 10, if your panda is level 8 or 9 it is at 2.8S

I have 7 different types of T4's, they are all at 2.5

Bird, Cat, Dog, Panda, Cerberus, Ghost and the witch cat.

Are you joking? These games are competative FPS games. That has nothing to do with MMO's, you can't compare them at all.You can't have p2w aspects in actual Esport games.
However an MMO will NEVER be an Esport.
Even the beloved WoW is slightly p2w, with it's bought level what is it now 95, that you can sell subscriptions etc. Not to mention you can literally buy the best gear in that game with gold as well.

 

just checked it.. yes you are right 2.5sec maybe it was lvl 9 when I checked the 2.8 sec

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Posted (edited)

It really does not, if it does it's not noticable at all.

Also did we talk about pet skils? :D

f8368fdecc700d7a3145c426b93f489b.png

Sorry for slow answer, they are all 2.5 unless they aren't level 10, if your panda is level 8 or 9 it is at 2.8S

I have 7 different types of T4's, they are all at 2.5

Bird, Cat, Dog, Panda, Cerberus, Ghost and the witch cat.

Are you joking? These games are competative FPS games. That has nothing to do with MMO's, you can't compare them at all.You can't have p2w aspects in actual Esport games.
However an MMO will NEVER be an Esport.
Even the beloved WoW is slightly p2w, with it's bought level what is it now 95, that you can sell subscriptions etc. Not to mention you can literally buy the best gear in that game with gold as well.

Except in WoW you can't 1-shot people in pvp because of the money you payed. Not to mention it's 10 times easier to get to max lvl AND get that gear than it is in BDO because there are such things as caps. In a game where silver is power (in WoW it is very often skill) and there is no level cap and the differences between gear and level are enormous (1-shot fest) "convenience" items are MUCH more detrimental to the game and players. WoW is an MMO that didn't focus on gambling habits of Koreans, the two games can't compare.

Edited by Genova

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Posted

I'm a little confused... Video games are made by companies to make money, right? Why do people seem to think otherwise? I have so many friends that paid only $10 - $30 to get hundreds of hours out of this game. Some of them have never purchased anything from the cash shop and they're still competitive in PvP. Sure, you can pay money to advance further or to get some cool e-peen flexing stuff, but overall I'd say it's a pretty good structure.

I mean... I don't think I've ever played an MMO where players couldn't:

A.  buy gold from an external website to advance faster or

B. Purchase internal cash shop items to advance faster

I'm personally a bigger fan of the latter since the money (can) sink back into development. As it is, BDO is basically f2p. Let the developers make their money... You don't have to feed into it to be competitive. Hell, you don't have to feed into it period. Go play another MMO that doesn't fit your description of p2w. Oh wait...

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Posted

RNG is RNG. You knew the risk when trying to go for a T4.

T4 is a really min-maxy thing to have. I wouldn't bother sinking money into that when it could be spent on something like weight expansions.

Just because T4s exist doesn't mean you need it.

you know the percntages of getting a T4? No?

 

do explain how you know of the risk of a mysterious mechanic that explains the absolute minimum.

 

at least we have a generally accepted player made chart for failstacks.

 

by the way. Ive attempted t4 3 times and suceeded each time with t2 + t3.

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Posted

No its not. Nobody needs a T4. 4 level 10 T1s do just fine. If you are really fast at grinding then T3 would pretty much cover everything. T4 is min-maxy and just isn't necessary.

What does weight have to do with pet RNG?

I wonder how "fast" you grind if you consider 4 Lv10 T1's to do fine. Even with 4 Lv10 T3's there's about 30-40% of my loot left behind because I grind to fast and I'm a Valkyrie!

T4's would increase my farming with about 30% due to the much faster movement speed and animations of the pets not even so much the loot speed.

 

It's not a min-max thing, it's a profit /hour thing which is a lot more and thus needed if you want to be competitive.

While speaking about being competitive (I've mentioned this in all other replies yet you seemingly ignore them on purpose, probably because they kill your argument?) .. guess what min-max means? Oh, yeah, being competitive.

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Posted

well, just grind 30% more.

or min-max your pocket money

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Posted

you know the percntages of getting a T4? No?

 

do explain how you know of the risk of a mysterious mechanic that explains the absolute minimum.

 

at least we have a generally accepted player made chart for failstacks.

 

by the way. Ive attempted t4 3 times and suceeded each time with t2 + t3.

This

Seriously, CANCER RNG would not be this CANCEROUS if they did tell u how much is ur chance of success before u do it. As it stands now u can't even take calculated risk cuz u don't know what the success rate is for alot of things. Hidden stats and RNG are both cancerous for players and BDO has both.

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Posted (edited)

It's not a min-max thing, it's a profit /hour thing which is a lot more and thus needed if you want to be competitive.

Why not make it a profit/day thing. Nolifers play 16 hours, so if you don't play 12 hours every day you aren't competitive anyway by your logic. And when those nolifers have t4s themselves.. you need those 16 hours, too. Everything less is unacceptable.

And honestly... when someone plays 80-100 hours per week and wants to be competitive in RNG game.. absolutely no problem when he has to pay to have that.

Edited by Spartakatz

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Posted (edited)

Sooo.. just reading this topic inspired me to try to T4 my T3s. Maybe my experience will help you get a accurate picture.

 

*Already had T3 Dog*

T1 Dog + T1 Dog = T2 Dog

T2 Dog + T3 Dog = T3 Dog

T1 Dog + T1 Dog = T3 Dog

T3 Dog + T3 Dog = T4 Dog

 

*Already had T3 Bird*

T1 Bird + T1 Bird = T3 Bird

T3 Bird + T3 Bird = T3 Bird

T1 Bird + T1 Bird = T3 Bird

T3 Bird + T3 Bird = T4 Bird

 

*Already had T3 Fox*

T1 Fox + T1 Fox = T3 Fox

T3 Fox + T3 Fox = T4 Fox

The original pets were all lvl 10, but then i breeded lvl 1 and still got to T4 relatively easily.

 

pets.jpg

Edited by Lystra

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Posted

you know the percntages of getting a T4? No?

 

do explain how you know of the risk of a mysterious mechanic that explains the absolute minimum.

 

at least we have a generally accepted player made chart for failstacks.

 

by the way. Ive attempted t4 3 times and suceeded each time with t2 + t3.

Well its quite clearly obvious that T4 will have a lower chance than T3 and below. You knew the risk of possible failure. I never said you knew HOW much risk there was. Its RNG there is always a risk. Everybody knows that.

 

I wonder how "fast" you grind if you consider 4 Lv10 T1's to do fine. Even with 4 Lv10 T3's there's about 30-40% of my loot left behind because I grind to fast and I'm a Valkyrie!

T4's would increase my farming with about 30% due to the much faster movement speed and animations of the pets not even so much the loot speed.

 

It's not a min-max thing, it's a profit /hour thing which is a lot more and thus needed if you want to be competitive.

While speaking about being competitive (I've mentioned this in all other replies yet you seemingly ignore them on purpose, probably because they kill your argument?) .. guess what min-max means? Oh, yeah, being competitive.

No I actually didn't ignore it, I just didn't see it. Probably read over it. My apologies.

Well, I'm not going to say I'm a top-tier player because I'm not. The thing is even though T4s would increase your overall loot-rate, having everything min-maxed isn't necessary for being competitive. Sure, it helps, but you can do just fine without it. Just because you don't have the best of everything doesn't mean you can't be competitive. If you are missing loot, then just party up with some guildies and and turn on the special deals setting and ordered looting. You both earn silver from mob-based exchanges and make money off each-other from valuable loot being sold. Its a win-win.

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