• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

I dont think anythings going to kill this game faster than future tech

22 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I'm constantly upgrading my pc. All the time. It's got great specs and i play on an IPS display of 1440p so i get to see games as devs intended.

Apparently Black Desert was never meant to run well. Impossible. Strange too, given that I remember everyone talking this up since it ran on a proprietary engine created by the developers themselves during the beta's.

This game literally stole the playerbase from archeage a while ago- touting it could do everything better without the need to spend extra cash for advantages. It succeeded- only it does just about everything worse- most notably PERFORMANCE

But why is it a problem now? I look at Black Desert and it reminds me of that time i looked at Ocarina of Time in 2016- it gave me a headache. We used to play that and we thought it looked GREAT!

Black desert isn't even on par for a 2015 game let alone 2017. I just sat in the heidel arena and watched players fight each other as they rubber banded around in a crazy soup of effects. Then i thought "This game is literally trying to cover its faults by putting as much fireworks on the screen as possible"

All at a stable 49 fps. Lol. Even consoles are doing better than that now. BDO is now the only game in my active gaming library that cant give me at least 80 fps at minimum. and dont feed me the mmo performance bullcrap. If im sitting in an area with no players in it, i should be getting more than 60 fps average.Game needs a serious overhaul, AND THE DEVS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT SINCE ITS THEIR OWN PROPRIETARY ENGINE RUNNING IT.

 

Edited by Frostfire2k
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There's a new post-processing engine coming this summer. Same DS3 and DS use, I'm hoping it will make it better.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There's a new post-processing engine coming this summer. Same DS3 and DS use, I'm hoping it will make it better.

I hope it improves the performance. game looks good enough for now.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There's a new post-processing engine coming this summer. Same DS3 and DS use, I'm hoping it will make it better.

I want something to fix pop-in. That would be glorious

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm constantly upgrading my pc. All the time. It's got great specs and i play on an IPS display of 1440p so i get to see games as devs intended.

Apparently Black Desert was never meant to run well. Impossible. Strange too, given that I remember everyone talking this up since it ran on a proprietary engine created by the developers themselves during the beta's.

This game literally stole the playerbase from archeage a while ago- touting it could do everything better without the need to spend extra cash for advantages. It succeeded- only it does just about everything worse- most notably PERFORMANCE

But why is it a problem now? I look at Black Desert and it reminds me of that time i looked at Ocarina of Time in 2016- it gave me a headache. We used to play that and we thought it looked GREAT!

Black desert isn't even on par for a 2015 game let alone 2017. I just sat in the heidel arena and watched players fight each other as they rubber banded around in a crazy soup of effects. Then i thought "This game is literally trying to cover its faults by putting as much fireworks on the screen as possible"

All at a stable 49 fps. Lol. Even consoles are doing better than that now. BDO is now the only game in my active gaming library that cant give me at least 80 fps at minimum. and dont feed me the mmo performance bullcrap. If im sitting in an area with no players in it, i should be getting more than 60 fps average.Game needs a serious overhaul, AND THE DEVS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT SINCE ITS THEIR OWN PROPRIETARY ENGINE RUNNING IT.

 

Yeah you lost me when you mention Ocarina of time in a negative matter >.>

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

We need a server for east coast. Having two servers will cut the player base in half allowing more breathing room (✿◡‿◡)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

In the recent patch notes there was a bit about optimization when players are present.  I am guessing that is to combat the severe drops when in towns and at bosses?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm constantly upgrading my pc. All the time. It's got great specs and i play on an IPS display of 1440p so i get to see games as devs intended.

Apparently Black Desert was never meant to run well. Impossible. Strange too, given that I remember everyone talking this up since it ran on a proprietary engine created by the developers themselves during the beta's.

This game literally stole the playerbase from archeage a while ago- touting it could do everything better without the need to spend extra cash for advantages. It succeeded- only it does just about everything worse- most notably PERFORMANCE

But why is it a problem now? I look at Black Desert and it reminds me of that time i looked at Ocarina of Time in 2016- it gave me a headache. We used to play that and we thought it looked GREAT!

Black desert isn't even on par for a 2015 game let alone 2017. I just sat in the heidel arena and watched players fight each other as they rubber banded around in a crazy soup of effects. Then i thought "This game is literally trying to cover its faults by putting as much fireworks on the screen as possible"

All at a stable 49 fps. Lol. Even consoles are doing better than that now. BDO is now the only game in my active gaming library that cant give me at least 80 fps at minimum. and dont feed me the mmo performance bullcrap. If im sitting in an area with no players in it, i should be getting more than 60 fps average.Game needs a serious overhaul, AND THE DEVS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT SINCE ITS THEIR OWN PROPRIETARY ENGINE RUNNING IT.

 

I built my PC in 2015 and haven't upgraded it since, I don't even have an SSD and I get a pretty consistent 60 FPS if I'm not in a city or at a world boss. If you're sitting in an area with no players around and not getting 60 on a PC that you constantly upgrade, it might be something on your end. 

 

BDO might not be on par for a "2017 game", but...

and dont feed me the mmo performance bullcrap. 

It is an MMO, what do you mean?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

It is an MMO, what do you mean?

Meaning its not supposed to perform well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well people still play Aion ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Umm... I'm sorry what? You want to talk about incompetent devs?

Warhammer online, ESO, AoC, SWTOR all games with a huge budget and a promising start, all games ran to the ground by developers who have no clue what they are doing. The only people left in ESO are the ES fanboys, same with SWTOR with SW fans.

ESO, massive faction battles! At 10 fps. SWTOR? Can't handle more than 30 people on screen using skills at the same time or the engine starts choking. Warhammer? Massive siege battles! EPIC WARFARE, at 5fps.

I'm constantly upgrading my pc. All the time. It's got great specs and i play on an IPS display of 1440p so i get to see games as devs intended.

Apparently Black Desert was never meant to run well. Impossible. Strange too, given that I remember everyone talking this up since it ran on a proprietary engine created by the developers themselves during the beta's.

This game literally stole the playerbase from archeage a while ago- touting it could do everything better without the need to spend extra cash for advantages. It succeeded- only it does just about everything worse- most notably PERFORMANCE

But why is it a problem now? I look at Black Desert and it reminds me of that time i looked at Ocarina of Time in 2016- it gave me a headache. We used to play that and we thought it looked GREAT!

Black desert isn't even on par for a 2015 game let alone 2017. I just sat in the heidel arena and watched players fight each other as they rubber banded around in a crazy soup of effects. Then i thought "This game is literally trying to cover its faults by putting as much fireworks on the screen as possible"

All at a stable 49 fps. Lol. Even consoles are doing better than that now. BDO is now the only game in my active gaming library that cant give me at least 80 fps at minimum. and dont feed me the mmo performance bullcrap. If im sitting in an area with no players in it, i should be getting more than 60 fps average.Game needs a serious overhaul, AND THE DEVS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT SINCE ITS THEIR OWN PROPRIETARY ENGINE RUNNING IT.

 

Are you... are you comparing singleplayer games to an MMO in terms of performance? I... yeah sorry, don't mean the rude or anything, but that's just ignorant on multiple levels.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

MMO's aren't quite there yet, it's not just this game's problem, it's all MMO's.  If you look at other competing MMO's, WoW runs well, but we all know why.  Their graphics are outdated and they use way less pixels and details than we see here.  The game's combat is still stand & cast for crying out loud.  But it's by design that Blizzard makes their games accessible which is one of the main reasons why it's still the largest game in U.S.

GW2 looks great and runs well if there aren't a lot of people around, but when you are in WvW or PvE raids, your fps still takes a dump. It's common to get skills lag in WvW there, and we're talking 10-15 second delays in using your skills.  Try mass PvP with 10-15 second skills delay, it isn't fun.

ESO, another action combat MMO, looks pretty, but combat is clunky, and it lags something terrible when you're in sieges.

There's a fine line to balance between good looking vs good performance.  The commonality of all the MMO's on the market today is that none can stand high performance when you have large amount of people on the screen.  None, and I'm in beta for a couple of games that have yet to come out and they can't do it either.

As much as I complain about this game, including its performance issues and terrible desync issues, I give credit where its due.  It's one of the best looking MMORPG's on the market today.  And not just looks, it has action combat, which many MMO's still fail to deliver.  The tech isn't bad here, and I'm talking feature tech, not performance.  You know there are MMO's still without active weather system and changes to seasons?  You know there are MMO's that still make you see a loading screen when you want to enter houses or personal housing, where as here we just...enter & leave as we please?  When it snows or rains in other MMO's, your characters don't look different.  Here, we get snow on our clothes, rain on our armor, things actually change dynamically.

This game can use a lot of fine tuning when it comes to performance.  The desync issue being the worst culprit.  But it doesn't perform worse than other competing MMO's on the market today, especially when we're talking about mid to large scale PvP situations.  When I learned this was their proprietary engine, i was surprised.  You aren't going to find many MMO's that run a seamless world like BDO, at the graphic details we're seeing, using any other games engines.  Actually I don't think you'll find one at all.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

MMO's aren't quite there yet, it's not just this game's problem, it's all MMO's.  If you look at other competing MMO's, WoW runs well, but we all know why.  Their graphics are outdated and they use way less pixels and details than we see here.  The game's combat is still stand & cast for crying out loud.  But it's by design that Blizzard makes their games accessible which is one of the main reasons why it's still the largest game in U.S.

GW2 looks great and runs well if there aren't a lot of people around, but when you are in WvW or PvE raids, your fps still takes a dump. It's common to get skills lag in WvW there, and we're talking 10-15 second delays in using your skills.  Try mass PvP with 10-15 second skills delay, it isn't fun.

ESO, another action combat MMO, looks pretty, but combat is clunky, and it lags something terrible when you're in sieges.

There's a fine line to balance between good looking vs good performance.  The commonality of all the MMO's on the market today is that none can stand high performance when you have large amount of people on the screen.  None, and I'm in beta for a couple of games that have yet to come out and they can't do it either.

As much as I complain about this game, including its performance issues and terrible desync issues, I give credit where its due.  It's one of the best looking MMORPG's on the market today.  And not just looks, it has action combat, which many MMO's still fail to deliver.  The tech isn't bad here, and I'm talking feature tech, not performance.  You know there are MMO's still without active weather system and changes to seasons?  You know there are MMO's that still make you see a loading screen when you want to enter houses or personal housing, where as here we just...enter & leave as we please?  When it snows or rains in other MMO's, your characters don't look different.  Here, we get snow on our clothes, rain on our armor, things actually change dynamically.

This game can use a lot of fine tuning when it comes to performance.  The desync issue being the worst culprit.  But it doesn't perform worse than other competing MMO's on the market today, especially when we're talking about mid to large scale PvP situations.  When I learned this was their proprietary engine, i was surprised.  You aren't going to find many MMO's that run a seamless world like BDO, at the graphic details we're seeing, using any other games engines.  Actually I don't think you'll find one at all.

I just wish they increased pop-up range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I just wish they increased pop-up range.

The game already have quite average optimization and you want something that will impact thoses even more ? :]

The only smart thing to do is have them work of making thoses "pop up" ( / lod transition ) more discreet, since so far, every single game have that, its necessary for the current tech.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

siege is almost unplayable for me and i have good pc..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I want something to fix pop-in. That would be glorious

I would play again if that happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The great thing about BDO is that it's playable (enjoyable is a different argument...) even on a potato while still offering visuals that put other big budget MMOs to shame. However it seems like they intended to fit as many people into the game, without caring about consistency of performance. The loss of frames on medium settings in a town on a system like mine (i7-6850K, 1080GTX, 32GB RAM) shows that optimization in certain parts of the game were either completely ignored or it wasn't designed with the ever improving hardware and technology we use.

 

My Mabinogi days have taught me one golden rule regarding in-house engines; The freedoms it provides are nearly unlimited, but so are the complications and upkeep.

Overall my three main performance issues are pop-ins, massive framedrops at bosses, and the moody servers. Given time I feel the game can overcome these, but only if the developers care enough to actually fix them. I don't expect the game to run 60 FPS buttery smooth at every given moment with all connection issues being my ISP, but I do expect performance that matches my hardware and for the servers and netcode to be of premium quality given this is a successful buy-to-play title with a cash shop.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The great thing about BDO is that it's playable (enjoyable is a different argument...) even on a potato while still offering visuals that put other big budget MMOs to shame. However it seems like they intended to fit as many people into the game, without caring about consistency of performance. The loss of frames on medium settings in a town on a system like mine (i7-6850K, 1080GTX, 32GB RAM) shows that optimization in certain parts of the game were either completely ignored or it wasn't designed with the ever improving hardware and technology we use.

 

My Mabinogi days have taught me one golden rule regarding in-house engines; The freedoms it provides are nearly unlimited, but so are the complications and upkeep.

Overall my three main performance issues are pop-ins, massive framedrops at bosses, and the moody servers. Given time I feel the game can overcome these, but only if the developers care enough to actually fix them. I don't expect the game to run 60 FPS buttery smooth at every given moment with all connection issues being my ISP, but I do expect performance that matches my hardware and for the servers and netcode to be of premium quality given this is a successful buy-to-play title with a cash shop.

So here's the issue with the logic of the so called beauty in this game. 

Particle effects, SSAO, and a lot of post processing in general look like trash at low frames and fireworks at 60+ frames (see geometry wars). You can crank crysis 3 up to max settings on a 4k monitor and yea sure it looks GREAT but once you start moving around and doing stuff it's going to give you a headache and look like shite. 

Guild wars had a pretty good middle ground and WoW has it down to a science. Like in WoW the overall graphics may be a bit dated but the effects can look downright awe inspiring at time- with 100+ frames in big groups playing WoW you can see every particle, the environment (as fake as it looks) feels more organic, and as a result i'd much rather look at the graphics in WoW, dated as they are, since im getting those buttery smooth frames.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

the only thing that will kill this game is another game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Well the engine does run well as long as you stay away from CPU-intensive scenarios. 

The problem with world bosses/Sieges are the effects by the players. Calculating transparency is pretty resource intensive. Cities like Calpheon flood the GPU with too many draw calls, which leads to bad performance despite there arent that many players (in this case it's probably bad culling causing the game running into API limitations). The third case is Heidel. It's not necessarily a CPU problem, but rather the engine itself just craps out which leads to bad saturation of the CPU and GPU. Somewhat fourth case is High end mode, which shouldnt be even that resource intensive (it just fills the rendering pipeline with too much junk)

In order to stay on top of the MMO market they should really upgrade their engine to Vulkan. Better multithreading, more efficient shader language, minimal API overhead, thousand times more draw calls allowed. I mean, just look at Star Citizen, they will upgrade their engine (Amazon's Lumberyard engine, based on CryEngine) to support Vulkan: https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7581676/#Comment_7581676

Also this: https://i.imgur.com/lGJmkRT.png Though take it with a huge grain of salt! For one it's a synthetic benchmark and two what you are seeing there doesnt mean that games will suddenly run 10x better just by using Vulkan or DX12

Edited by PsiGhost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think something else should be taken into account. This game is written for the PC and not a console and herein lies part of the problem.

With the console the dev can plan and understand what hardware is being utilised. They can get much better result as the hardware is uniformed and known. A PS4 is a PS4 - they do not have to consider if it will be a "low powered" or a "high-end" console. They are not constrained with the console - however, they are with a PC.

First problem, you want to have as many people playing your game as possible on a PC that has minimum and recommended specs. All these must be generalised as there is no "standard" PC. The content will require that many people mix in one place - that will create issues and how the players PC handles it. Some will perform better than others.

The second issue to contend with game-wise is this MMO is a client-server application. This means you have a program on the player computer and it talks to another part of the program on another computer.  The amount of code you run on either computer has to be calculated, run too much on the client (which the devs have limited control of) then game will not perform well when the client is half way round the world.

Then there is the game engine which could be 10yrs old...

All said and done, the PC MMO always suffers because of these issues. All are very hard to fix and difficult to address for a noticeable improvement. If they are addressed it is slowly and carefully.

Consider these facts when you are playing your favourite game next time, and cut the devs some slack

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I love this game but the server issue, or whatever optimization issue, is making it almost unplayable. I noticed an enormous difference in player count as soon as the Dark Night was released. I tried to get on the NA server one night and every single one of the channels was crowded. I'm curious if the devs knew what was coming...because I don't think the game can continue with the current server capacity.

I'm at the point where I'm avoiding major cities like Heidel and Calpheon. My laptop has modest specs so I'm not setting an unreasonable standard, but I'd like to see what they have planned for improvement.

Edited by Chelsuh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites