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DP Still useless in End Game PvP

94 posts in this topic

Posted

DP is far from useless as long as you stack the right kind. And either way there will always be a counter to your gear choice.

If you stack damage reduction (Manos Ruby Earrings, Kite Shield, Cadry Rings), high AP will melt you but high accuracy won't be as threatening.
If you stack evasion (Parrying Dagger, Centaur Belt, Sicil's Necklace), high AP will tickle you but high accuracy will melt you.

If you have good gear you can get enough evasion through Centaur Belt, evasion offhand and house buff (Muskan's Helmet) to be borderline unkillable to the average player, while maintaining enough AP to still kill them in one knockdown. DP in itself does not need a buff, you just need to know how to use it and accept that you also need to use DP accessories, however much it may hurt your e-peen to switch out your hard-earning AP accessories for node wars and conquests. Damage reduction on the other hand, while being only part of the total DP equation, I feel could need a small performance increase, as it pales compared to evasion in terms of stacking viability.

I Think the problem is not DP itself but how the way you get it.

For example,i'm musa,if i try to build a FULL DP build with idk (140 AP?) i doubt i can kill anyone (specially cause musa needs accuracy gears). In the other hands Wizards/Witches can go for FULL DP and still do damage.

Also,it's really expensive to build a full DP build :/

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Posted

I play MMO to play SOLO ! - logic.

 

Cuz I got a job and in any other MMO I would not be able to join an elite group cuz I don't have the time to PT farm in those instanced dungeons on week days. BDO however if u have spare time of 30 min u can still get a lot out of that so it's the only playable MMO for me.

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Posted

Cuz I got a job and in any other MMO I would not be able to join an elite group cuz I don't have the time to PT farm in those instanced dungeons on week days. BDO however if u have spare time of 30 min u can still get a lot out of that so it's the only playable MMO for me.

Sizer doesn't read the posts he just does drive by trolling.

Well done, even so.

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Posted (edited)

So much fail it's unbearable.

 

The entire PVP system is designed around instant kills.  Without instant kills things would become much worse.

All you would do is shift the problem to Run Speed / CC = Win

Ironically guess which class would become stupidly OP if players could tank.  The Witch/Wizard of course.  Not because of their range or massive DPS, but due to the ridiculous OP Slow and Teleport.

Things wouldn't become much worse unless they didn't rework the class balance from the ground up. Which is why I don't believe that the game will ever be more than a oneshot autismo fest.

 

The only thing the game's oneshot fest is achieving is having most classes be utterly pointless since they don't bring as much as others to the table and any class can instagib.
But like I said, I don't give enough -----s anymore. I surrendered to the fact this game's just gonna be this.

 

Sizer's been auti........ Sizer since I remember. No one plays BDO specifically to play solo. People play it solo because they can play solo. Also sometimes people are just that much bored.

Edited by Katsuragi

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Posted

Witch/Wizards with 300+ dp being "impossible" or even "hard" to kill by anyone 220+ ap is a -----ing meme.

Quit being autistic / intellectually dishonest. You're not going to kill a 250 dp witch / wiz instantly with 220+ ap while they have protected area up.

No 320+ dp witch / wizard is "tanking" players while protected area is down. Sorry, but it's not happening.

https://clips.twitch.tv/MushyAwkwardKaleNotLikeThis yupppp totally not happening /s 

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Posted (edited)

https://clips.twitch.tv/MushyAwkwardKaleNotLikeThis yupppp totally not happening /s 

You mean they couldn't kill her through protected area? No -----ing way.

You mean they couldn't kill her after cc'ing her a total of two times and completely whiffing their attacks because they executed them 90 degrees the other way from her while she was on the ground? No -----ing way. (Pro insider tip, Korea deals with dsync too)

You mean they couldn't kill her while she was standing up because she abused the perma-guard bug at every opportunity? No -----ing way.

You mean they couldn't kill her through frontal guards & super armor while they were dumping big damage abilities into her, always from a frontal angle? No -----ing way.

You can see from this video that it has absolutely nothing to do with dp and everything to do with the sorc & dk being absolute garbage at the game, which is told from their awful positioning. They didn't even try to get behind her during the heal at the end.

Because none of those things happened for the entirety of your 48 second clip right? Go on, say they didn't. You're literally touched if this is the video that you think props up your non-existing argument that somehow 320 dp+ makes either class in question a tank. I refuse to believe you're this dumb. Please tell me you're trolling.

Edited by triggered

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Posted

Things wouldn't become much worse unless they didn't rework the class balance from the ground up. Which is why I don't believe that the game will ever be more than a oneshot autismo fest.

 

The only thing the game's oneshot fest is achieving is having most classes be utterly pointless since they don't bring as much as others to the table and any class can instagib.
But like I said, I don't give enough -----s anymore. I surrendered to the fact this game's just gonna be this.

 

Sizer's been auti........ Sizer since I remember. No one plays BDO specifically to play solo. People play it solo because they can play solo. Also sometimes people are just that much bored.

To many people like to believe PVP is about sieges and consensual combat.  Not about things like trying to kill players to mobs and dashing away or how impossible it would be to kill a red player who could actually tank.  Not to mention desync, hitting moving targets, potions etc.

Everyone just seems to be git gud bone heads.

If you could barely kill a player because they could tank they could V, heal, teleport, dash away even if you got a few rare chances to actually get a kill.

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Posted

Because witch wizards don't need accuracy at all(their skill have +40 accuracy) they can stack DP and still have enough accuracy to hit anyone, those 2 classes are in a different dimension in terms of OPness because of this fact. Classes like ranger needs to stack accuracy like mad just to stay relevant in a fight so she can't stack DP at all, u breeze on a ranger she dies. Really witch wizard should have their skill accuracy reduced from +40 to +5-10(same as ranger).

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Posted (edited)

To many people like to believe PVP is about sieges and consensual combat.  Not about things like trying to kill players to mobs and dashing away or how impossible it would be to kill a red player who could actually tank.  Not to mention desync, hitting moving targets, potions etc.

Everyone just seems to be git gud bone heads.

If you could barely kill a player because they could tank they could V, heal, teleport, dash away even if you got a few rare chances to actually get a kill.

That's why I'm speaking of reworking class kits from the ground up. There are ways to do it. It's just not worth it on the development side. They already went this route and they're not changing it.

Because witch wizards don't need accuracy at all(their skill have +40 accuracy) they can stack DP and still have enough accuracy to hit anyone, those 2 classes are in a different dimension in terms of OPness because of this fact. Classes like ranger needs to stack accuracy like mad just to stay relevant in a fight so she can't stack DP at all, u breeze on a ranger she dies. Really witch wizard should have their skill accuracy reduced from +40 to +5-10(same as ranger).

Point in case, it doesn't matter how viable a Ranger is, it literally brings nothing to the table besides damage. It does nothing you can't do with any other class, better, and with less of a risk.

Edited by Katsuragi

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Posted

That's why I'm speaking of reworking class kits from the ground up. There are ways to do it. It's just not worth it on the development side. They already went this route and they're not changing it.

Point in case, it doesn't matter how viable a Ranger is, it literally brings nothing to the table besides damage. It does nothing you can't do with any other class, better, and with less of a risk.

Ninja might be in a similar boat, but we do have some side utility thanks to double/triple jump.

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Posted

Ninja might be in a similar boat, but we do have some side utility thanks to double/triple jump.

At least Ninja has high inherent evasion and an OP evasion buff, that makes u the best evasion tank in the game, u have ur place in siege war as suicide squads that disrupt repairing. Where as rangers are COMPLETE trash useless class, whatever rangers can bring on table, other classes can do it better.

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Posted

At least Ninja has high inherent evasion and an OP evasion buff, that makes u the best evasion tank in the game, u have ur place in siege war as suicide squads that disrupt repairing. Where as rangers are COMPLETE trash useless class, whatever rangers can bring on table, other classes can do it better.

Clueless or no gear if you think ranger is useless. Your damage is identical to Ninja with more mobility. You also have a +30 evasion buff you can use, higher than mine.

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Posted

@triggered

It was only cause of the protective area right?

 

Also worth noting, these are not just random "plebs", a lot of these as far as we know are geared and skilled players.

Also somewhat DP builds work for a lot of classes. When I say DP I mean evasion.
But those who excel at it is Wizards, Witches and Ninja's, as they got high enough damage with lower AP's to F up anyone in a few abilities, while others might have to do either very long combo's or in several combo's, which usually isn't that viable in sieges/node wars.

@Xenon

Ninja has their place in sieges, and they are amongst the OP I would dare say, no you cannot run into the mainforce but in smaller groups like a dagger team you do wonders.
The disruption you can do is incredible.
And you can have super low AP and go full out evasion and still melt people in a split second.

Ninja's also do great works as either cannoneers that can actually defend themselves or as scouts.
And never underestimate stealth either.

 

@Tryldom used your vid :x

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Posted

Clueless or no gear if you think ranger is useless. Your damage is identical to Ninja with more mobility. You also have a +30 evasion buff you can use, higher than mine.

u joking right?

ranger evasion buff cost 100%, ninja can spam that shit all day. just go to a siege guild and ask, they'll tell u ranger is the squishiest class maybe not as squishy as DK but still among the squishiest.

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Posted

This is hilarious to me...  my input here has no meaning, I don't think, as you all think that your shit don't stink, but it do.

Anyway, I'll say this, why not just build out your character in a way that feels good to you?  I'm working toward a 199 AP, 297 DP and like 4.3-4.5K HP build, why you ask?  Because thats what I wanna do.

Again, I doubt this has any value in this discussion, but for what I like to do in game, its good for me, maybe just, you know, play how you want for yourself instead of chasing various metas *shrug*

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Posted

are u stupid? Dp cost less than ap gear. So u want someone to spend less on their gear and still tank 2 players with more expensive gear? And you want the person that spend less on their gear to have the ability to kill 2 people more geared than him. But those 2 people cannot kill u? Damn ur logic is flawless.

They only lost to the dk and sorc combo and they demolished everyone else.

are you stupid? the items are cheaper because of supply and demand, and the whole scenario still doesn't deal with the fact dp is a ignored stat for 95% of the game.

Sure in this one situation it has its uses, outside of that its exceptionally underwhelming. 

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Posted

are you stupid? the items are cheaper because of supply and demand, and the whole scenario still doesn't deal with the fact dp is a ignored stat for 95% of the game.

Sure in this one situation it has its uses, outside of that its exceptionally underwhelming. 

Certain items with DP have gone up if they are evasion DP. For example centaur belts are now 19-21m and sicils are 37-44m because there DP is considered evasion. Evasion DP is great, especially if people don't stack accuracy.

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Posted

Dp is the most broken shit you clearly  never fought a real evasion  stacker. Yes damage  reduction is bad but not dp overall 

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Posted

but thats the thing right. 1 class. *2 if you include witch* 300dp wiz/witch are the tankiest class in the game due to the dp, the ability to stack evasion without losing too much accuracy, self buffs, and still maintaining the ability to get top DPS. Warrior and Berserker can do similar BUT with much less efficiency,
1-3 classes can do it doesnt mean all classes can do it easily.

Exactly, TET armour. To be exact, TRI armour and duo/TRI accessories will give you 215-225 ap, and to survive that most classes need TET armour and a TRI/TET DP or Kutum offhand

even then, some classes will rip through 320dp using just 220 ap while still being tanky as ----- themselves.

In reality BDO really screwed up wizards. They are way too strong.

The devs took a very squishy class and tried to make it a melee class with cast timers... which means you need to give them a way to survive when they decide to get in range to use their skills. This is why almost every skill has a block or super armour. Take the super armour away and you're left with a class that gets one shot, leave it in and you have (potentially) the strongest class in the game. Hits hard and is very hard to kill, has heals and a teleport that can temporarily get you out of trouble.

Now don't get me wrong, these last couple of months have been amazing (I have mained a wizard since I started playing this game, was my first character before I understood what balancing was like and have stuck with it through thick and thin), but I can recognise a balance issue when I see one and would like to see it rectified even to my detriment.

Personally I don't think there is a very good solution to the problem, leave the super armour in and it's as it is now, but take it out and you gut a class. I think a good step in the right direction would be to raise the cooldowns/remove the ability to chain cc's so no class can just sit there and spam skills to remain in super armour, or keep a character perma-cc'd/grabbed (I'm looking at you zerkers and tamers). Since awakenings there is very little balance, I'm not sure that is going to change any time soon.

Dp is the most broken shit you clearly  never fought a real evasion  stacker. Yes damage  reduction is bad but not dp overall 

Pretty sure some items listed as "DP" are actually evasion though. Someone linked me a chart with what gear's "DP" gives evasion and what is damage reduction. I'm yet to test it properly, but if it turns out to be true it's the stupidest and most broken shit I've seen in a game. To be serious we need gear that shows its actual stats, not hidden or mis-labelled shit all over the place.

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Posted

You really can't be on top going solo. People who grind pirates together will always have more money than you and snipe all boss armor off market place. Guild members list items at night to give to one another. Might as well quit now. You'll have to be a fisher man for way to long to MAYBE get top tier boss equips. 

not tru

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Posted

you really are stupid. Ap gear cost less than Dp? Half the points you listed made no sense.

This game has a communist economy with controlled prices. But when you look at the items accessibility the muskan boots and tree armor are most valuable items in entire game. While absolutly necessary to any kind of DP build.

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Posted

Pretty sure some items listed as "DP" are actually evasion though. Someone linked me a chart with what gear's "DP" gives evasion and what is damage reduction. I'm yet to test it properly, but if it turns out to be true it's the stupidest and most broken shit I've seen in a game. To be serious we need gear that shows its actual stats, not hidden or mis-labelled shit all over the place.

Yes, this is the case, but with a DP build that's usually what people aim for, not just normal damage reduction.
Items like Centaur belt, Bensho's necklace, Sicil's necklace all have evasion. Enhancements on armor gives both normal DR and evasion etc.
And ofcourse as everyone knows you got rosar and the Tadd/Parrying/etc. that gives evasion as well.

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Posted

The economy is broken, PVP balance is broken, no trading system. Is there anything left over in this game that is not broken? game play wise. I'm only playing this game because this is the only MMO with top end graphics that can be played SOLO. Other games like FF14 or TERA or BnS u need to PT all the time to stay relevant, BDO is the only game that u can stay on top of the pyramid going SOLO only and that is the only reason I'm playing.

This is actually the main reason I keep coming back to BDO.  I don't have to depend on other people for my own progression within the game.

And then I get sick of soloing and go play TERA/BnS/PoE for a while...  and then I get sick of people.

It's a vicious cycle.

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Posted (edited)

@triggered

It was only cause of the protective area right?

 

Also worth noting, these are not just random "plebs", a lot of these as far as we know are geared and skilled players.

Also somewhat DP builds work for a lot of classes. When I say DP I mean evasion.
But those who excel at it is Wizards, Witches and Ninja's, as they got high enough damage with lower AP's to F up anyone in a few abilities, while others might have to do either very long combo's or in several combo's, which usually isn't that viable in sieges/node wars.

 

 

You couldn't prove to me that these aren't random plebs, and I don't mean because of the guild tag above their head (which means ----- all - but I get that you think it must mean something) but for the very visible and plain as day fact that they're playing like autistic wrecks. Probably my favorite, aside from the warrior completely whiffing his reckless blow at the beginning is the witch standing behind a tree casting away while the wiz was completely LoS from her. 10/10 downy.

No one attempted to get behind him - every single one of them were dumping damage into his frontal block for god only knows what reason. I get that it's easy to miss a target popping a protected area - but if you're hitting a wizard or any other player with that buff, they're flashing red & you're seeing critical on every hit but yet their health isn't budging, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you might be retarded if you keep hitting them while the buff is up. The zerker was the only one who threw out any meaningful CC. And to top it off, they chase him at the very end, for what? 
The wiz did do a really good job of using terrain and coverage of trees to obstruct his enemies view when he ported away. 

Thanks for showing me the BDO equivalent of kids playing BG Finder Arathi Basin and fighting in the road. Nothing in this video confirms that stacking DP is a worthwhile endeavor, but what the video does show is the wiz outclassed, outgeared, and likely outleveled a few player controlled manshas/alts with <Harmony> above their head. 2/10.

Edited by triggered

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Posted (edited)

nice memes. meanwhile DP witch in KR tanking 2 GEARED players with zero problem.

Wasn't thanks to dp. I'm sure it had contribution but witch is one of the best defensive class in game. 

Edited by Grandzon

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