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Advantage of Kzarka over Liverto Staff?


20 posts in this topic

Posted

Can someone explain this to me? I know that Kzarka has a slight accuracy (?) advantage vs Liverto Staff, but the crystal distribution seems to be awkward.

 

Wizard NON-EVASION Build:

***+1 Cast speed from Boss Set*** for both Kzarka and Liverto.



LIVERTO: +3 Crit, +2 Crit from BMC-Valor, 2x BMC - Memory: +4 Cast speed ==> a spare glove slot, currently using BMC-Precision (gloves) for +2 accuracy

Result: 5 Cast speed / 5 Crit / +2 extra accuracy

 

VS

 

KZARKA: +3 Cast Speed, 2x BMC-Valor for + 4 Crit ===> 2 Spare Helmet slots for +HP or +Evasion 

Result: 4 Cast speed / 4 Crit

 

Thoughts:

-I know I can use crafted costumes to get the last Cast Speed for Kzarka build, but I will still be at +4 crit. 

-I know I can use Food to make up for other inadequacies, but I prefer to use knights/Valencia/Hamburg etc food 

-And is +Evasion that helpful on a non-evasion Wiz build?

 

Someone please enlighten me on why Kzarka staff over Liverto Staff. Thanks!
 

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Posted

It's around 5 accuracy at the same upgrade level, and the crystal setup is superior. This is because you can put +10 evasion in your helm instead of +4 cast speed. 

Most settle for the 4 crit you get from 1x crit crystal + Margoria Seafood. You can pick up that extra +1 cast speed with a 1 cast speed + 2 accuracy crystal in your gloves. Alternatively, you can overstack your crit with 2x crit crystals and Margoria Seafood. 

Something like this is an ultimate goal for me, though it won't be attainable in short time. You could of course use diff earrings and special attack evasion in the armor, but I am a fan of raw HP. http://bdoplanner.com/s/fAMjZ6xn

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Posted

Is the +10 evasion helpful in a non-evasion build though? I can see Kzarka being pivotal for people using Roboca gear and evasion build.

AFAIK evasion is kind of an all or nothing build

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Posted

Why are you want to go into a non-evasion build? Aren't you interested in PVP?

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Posted

Why are you want to go into a non-evasion build? Aren't you interested in PVP?

Yeah there truly isn't a better setup, might as well aim for it.  Unless 100% pve. 

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Posted

Is the +10 evasion helpful in a non-evasion build though? I can see Kzarka being pivotal for people using Roboca gear and evasion build.

AFAIK evasion is kind of an all or nothing build

Rocaba is so little evasion. Even building for evasion I would use boss gear. You don't have to go FULL evasion to see the benefits of it - if you look at the build I linked there is no rocaba to be found but it still has 55+ evasion on top of that given by the armor pieces. 

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Posted

Why are you want to go into a non-evasion build? Aren't you interested in PVP?

Yeah there truly isn't a better setup, might as well aim for it.  Unless 100% pve. 

I always thought Evasion builds were FOTM that could be easily countered by Bheg gloves + 2 TRI RCE's (the earrings I am using now). Perhaps I have been misinformed. Thanks

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Posted

 

 

I always thought Evasion builds were FOTM that could be easily countered by Bheg gloves + 2 TRI RCE's (the earrings I am using now). Perhaps I have been misinformed. Thanks

Most need Bheg's + 2 TRI RCEs to get pretty good accuracy against someone wearing full TRI boss gear without extra evasion. Once you count the 24-30 evasion from an evasion offhand, 14 from a TRI centaur, and possibly even other sources of evasion you need a lot more accuracy to counter. Witch/Wiz/Warrior to some degree have large accuracy bonuses on their skills that help cut through this, but most classes suffer and need an accuracy offhand to counter an evasion build. 

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Posted

So I am a returner who played for 2 weeks at release and had to quit due to irl. So I'm back now and I am at the place where I am not sure what to do. I have got pri yuria, duo steel dagger and duo green awakening. Shall I buy tri yellow awakening, or tri liverto(that one I see quite often on AH) or should I try and snipe kzarka at any enchant lvl and push it to tri? I don't plan to pvp much any time soon so do I really need kzarka that bad or liverto will do? Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Full boss + kzarka = 4 cast
2x valor = 4 crit
1 addis gem puts you at 5 cast/crit and frees up helm slots for x10 evasion.

You can't do this with liverto

Edited by ooooMooo

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Posted

Is the +10 evasion helpful in a non-evasion build though? I can see Kzarka being pivotal for people using Roboca gear and evasion build.

AFAIK evasion is kind of an all or nothing build

Very useful in PvP

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Posted

Guess I underestimated 10 evasion in a non evasion build

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Posted (edited)

It all comes down to your playstyle. For example are u planning to use a lot of non awakening spells beside the shilds and heal in your pvp kit or not?

If no then kzarka is super pointless cause casting speed scales super bad with awakening skills. The diffrence between 2 awak skills wit 0 cast and 5 cast is like 0.2 and the thing is the skill isnt casting faster only your animations will end 0.2 faster so u can add a second skill ealier.

That was tested by a guy on this forum shortly after the awakening release.

The only casting time u can really notice in terms of faster dmg output comes from ur casting buffs or those skill add ons

The next thing if u use a kutum which is a very solid choice if u go hybrid then the diffrence between liverto and kzarka means only 1-2 acc  a lot of ppl tested this and linked there datasheets in some threads.

But when ur using liverto and magoria seafood then u dont need any crit gems what allows u to get +6 more acc from gems compared to a kzarka.

And this means ur paying more money to have less acc in your build -> GG

Repairing +90 on a liverto means 24 mil + 1200 loyalty 

Doing the same on kzarka means means 67.5 mil or 22.5 mil and 12000 loyalty sounds like a big scum to me especially when your are an returning game with a small silverpool.

A tet liverto is like 600-700 mil.

A tet kzarka (if someone ever sells it) means 1.3-1.4kkk for the same AP!

Edited by Eiwei

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Posted (edited)

It all comes down to your playstyle. For example are u planning to use a lot of non awakening spells beside the shilds and heal in your pvp kit or not?

If no then kzarka is super pointless cause casting speed scales super bad with awakening skills. The diffrence between 2 awak skills wit 0 cast and 5 cast is like 0.2 and the thing is the skill isnt casting faster only your animations will end 0.2 faster so u can add a second skill ealier.

That was tested by a guy on this forum shortly after the awakening release.

The only casting time u can really notice in terms of faster dmg output comes from ur casting buffs or those skill add ons

The next thing if u use a kutum which is a very solid choice if u go hybrid then the diffrence between liverto and kzarka means only 1-2 acc  a lot of ppl tested this and linked there datasheets in some threads.

But when ur using liverto and magoria seafood then u dont need any crit gems what allows u to get +6 more acc from gems compared to a kzarka.

And this means ur paying more money to have less acc in your build -> GG

Repairing +90 on a liverto means 24 mil + 1200 loyalty 

Doing the same on kzarka means means 67.5 mil or 22.5 mil and 12000 loyalty sounds like a big scum to me especially when your are an returning game with a small silverpool.

A tet liverto is like 600-700 mil.

A tet kzarka (if someone ever sells it) means 1.3-1.4kkk for the same AP!

Cast speed is just as important with awakened skills as with unawakened - awakened cast times are shorter sure, but the relative effect is the same. One extremely easy way to test is to start a stopwatch and time how long it takes you to cast 10 of your spammable (Detonative Flow if you're a Witch, Water Sphere if you're a Wizard) with 0 cast speed vs 5 cast speed. You'll get a significant difference. There are combos you won't be able to pull off if you drop cast speed - some of the ones I do on Wiz require spell speed to be up as well... 

Kutum does not change the accuracy of Liverto/Kzarka. Kzarka is always going to give around 5 more accuracy than Liverto, even if you equip a Bronze Dagger. 

Most people just use one crit crystal in their gloves and go with 4 crit using Margoria Seafood. There is only a 1-crystal difference here (2 accuracy) that you give up 10 evasion for. (see crystal setup here: http://bdoplanner.com/s/fAMjZ6xn )

Nobody will dispute that Liverto is better bang for buck, but it's not the better weapon if you're min/maxing endgame. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Posted (edited)

Theres a a lot pf threads on redditnand also one here on the bdo forum where ppl confirm that kzarla kutum thing with solid data spreadsheets.

And btw i did both pve and pvp with 5 and 0 castspeed u dont lose any combos the only reason for 5 castspeed is if u start to add stuff like meteor, freeze and co into your toolkit and the lighthouse is a bit faster but this spell is mostly covered by solid movement or ur insta cast buff. 

The only important increase i noticed so farm comes from ur e buff and that 10% skill add on  otherwise we are talking about stuff around 0.2 sec what maybe effects 2% of the super competetive players. As long as the server desynch like it is atm its not a constant noticeable boost to rush 5 casting

And i dont see any way to gem 5 crit and 20% cc pen with a kzarka without sacrificing a lot of acc  and osnt acc the only reason for that weapon?

U may have a point on a evasion wiz build where u gain that +6 from kzarka but even then its its double moey for ~ te same stat gain

If ur going  ap + acc as hardcounter for evasion siege buils or  hybrid with DR as frontliner witch its just a waste of money and a lose of cc pen. 

Btw u get 8 acc out of gems with lliverto. 4 from the weapon crystals 4 from hands

So all in all only evasion wiz who use a lot of that non awakening spell beside heals and shilds have a reason to take kzarka cause they trade 10% cc pen for 10 evasion what makes them a bit tankier :)

Edited by Eiwei

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Posted

It all comes down to your playstyle. For example are u planning to use a lot of non awakening spells beside the shilds and heal in your pvp kit or not?

If no then kzarka is super pointless cause casting speed scales super bad with awakening skills. The diffrence between 2 awak skills wit 0 cast and 5 cast is like 0.2 and the thing is the skill isnt casting faster only your animations will end 0.2 faster so u can add a second skill ealier.

That was tested by a guy on this forum shortly after the awakening release.

The only casting time u can really notice in terms of faster dmg output comes from ur casting buffs or those skill add ons

The next thing if u use a kutum which is a very solid choice if u go hybrid then the diffrence between liverto and kzarka means only 1-2 acc  a lot of ppl tested this and linked there datasheets in some threads.

But when ur using liverto and magoria seafood then u dont need any crit gems what allows u to get +6 more acc from gems compared to a kzarka.

And this means ur paying more money to have less acc in your build -> GG

Repairing +90 on a liverto means 24 mil + 1200 loyalty 

Doing the same on kzarka means means 67.5 mil or 22.5 mil and 12000 loyalty sounds like a big scum to me especially when your are an returning game with a small silverpool.

A tet liverto is like 600-700 mil.

A tet kzarka (if someone ever sells it) means 1.3-1.4kkk for the same AP!

The time between skills is huge actually.

Trust me I was using a boss alt witch compared to witch with all gear and 5 cast speed..... the boss alt was so sluggish feeling and noticeably slower with skills

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Posted (edited)

Theres a a lot pf threads on redditnand also one here on the bdo forum where ppl confirm that kzarla kutum thing with solid data spreadsheets.

And btw i did both pve and pvp with 5 and 0 castspeed u dont lose any combos the only reason for 5 castspeed is if u start to add stuff like meteor, freeze and co into your toolkit and the lighthouse is a bit faster but this spell is mostly covered by solid movement or ur insta cast buff. 

The only important increase i noticed so farm comes from ur e buff and that 10% skill add on  otherwise we are talking about stuff around 0.2 sec what maybe effects 2% of the super competetive players. As long as the server desynch like it is atm its not a constant noticeable boost to rush 5 casting

And i dont see any way to gem 5 crit and 20% cc pen with a kzarka without sacrificing a lot of acc  and osnt acc the only reason for that weapon?

U may have a point on a evasion wiz build where u gain that +6 from kzarka but even then its its double moey for ~ te same stat gain

If ur going  ap + acc as hardcounter for evasion siege buils or  hybrid with DR as frontliner witch its just a waste of money and a lose of cc pen. 

Btw u get 8 acc out of gems with lliverto. 4 from the weapon crystals 4 from hands

So all in all only evasion wiz who use a lot of that non awakening spell beside heals and shilds have a reason to take kzarka cause they trade 10% cc pen for 10 evasion what makes them a bit tankier :)

Are you completely ignoring my posts? I already responded to everything you decided to retype in this post in the one you quoted. You are full of crap saying you don't lose any combos by tanking your cast speed. You need both 5 cast speed and speed spell for some of the nastiest combos that include getting the full down attack bonus from a hellfire - example Cataclysm > Hellfire > grab > water sphere/bomb > aqua jail. If you don't have all your cast speed bonuses going they will get up from the cataclysm before you can grab them. 

Also you don't have to stack evasion for 10 evasion to be useful once we're talking boss gear here - a full set of TRI boss gear gives 121 evasion, and a full set of TET gives 129 evasion. Most classes that don't have crazy accuracy bonuses on skills need a heavy accuracy gear setup to cut through this (bheg's, 2x RCE, "useless" Kzarka, tree belt, 3-4x accuracy crystals), and the 10 evasion you can grab in helm crystals is rarely useless - especially if there is a Kutum, evasion offhand, centaur belt, or anything along those lines involved. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Posted

Cast speed is just as important with awakened skills as with unawakened - awakened cast times are shorter sure, but the relative effect is the same. One extremely easy way to test is to start a stopwatch and time how long it takes you to cast 10 of your spammable (Detonative Flow if you're a Witch, Water Sphere if you're a Wizard) with 0 cast speed vs 5 cast speed. You'll get a significant difference. There are combos you won't be able to pull off if you drop cast speed - some of the ones I do on Wiz require spell speed to be up as well... 

Kutum does not change the accuracy of Liverto/Kzarka. Kzarka is always going to give around 5 more accuracy than Liverto, even if you equip a Bronze Dagger. 

Most people just use one crit crystal in their gloves and go with 4 crit using Margoria Seafood. There is only a 1-crystal difference here (2 accuracy) that you give up 10 evasion for. (see crystal setup here: http://bdoplanner.com/s/fAMjZ6xn )

Nobody will dispute that Liverto is better bang for buck, but it's not the better weapon if you're min/maxing endgame. 

Looking at your build here Kustsuu, wouldn't Parrying Dagger be a better choice? You lose a crystal slot and some DR but gain even more Evasion. 

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Posted

Looking at your build here Kustsuu, wouldn't Parrying Dagger be a better choice? You lose a crystal slot and some DR but gain even more Evasion. 

Up to you really. I will take the 150hp and 5AP over 5 evasion. 

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Posted (edited)

Liverto vs. Kzarka, apparently your "vanilla" skills hit 9%-10% harder with Kzarka with a test done on a live stream on twitch.tv/wallofkai and Kzarka has 5% more accuracy according another test.

Your awakening skill damage doesn't really get affected when I tested with a friend a TET Kzarka and a TET Liverto, I would however love to hear other people's tests for the awakening damage where you compare Liverto and Kzarka.

Look into using Elixir of Shock (+2/+3 Crit) or Elixir of Agile Spell (+2/+3 Cast Speed) if you're missing Crit or Casting Speed though.

Edited by andy1213

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