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Open letter to the game creators

115 posts in this topic

Posted

Yes, you do need evidence for these kinds of things, in business, they need to be able to predict these things in order to avoid financial suicide

 if u ask me, Finacial suicide is  letting  hundreds of milion  people out of market ...setting prices so high  that maybe 1% of them can afford it.

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The language is called Braille, and the word is Ghoul.

The love for fresh flesh heh? Yeah sure why not be a ghoul, it suits you after all. But not the anime ghouls with nice hair and smile, more like oblivion where you got 3 tooths left.

Then why make the mistake in the first place? Plunge, is the one person, on this entire forum, that makes even a lick of sense and uses logic to make his/her arguments instead of emotions.

No? He is defending BDO being a non P2W game, how can sane ppl how saw obvious scams trough all conveniences can tell: Yo it's not P2W because you can't get your items directly, but iyoucan progress faster & higher than the whole world but still... not P2W. I mean, using emotions to cover the obvious and telling ppl you got logic... yeah well... good luck with your life. (i'm not arguing more, i already waged war against @Plunge and @War too many times)

It's the localisation costs which are bad for people like him. I'm sitting in the UK which has a minimum full time wage of  around £1140 per month. If he's sitting in the Czech Republic, their minimum full time monthly wage is around £285. That means the real cost of a cash shop item is 4x as expensive as it is for me, despite having the same listed cash shop price. That's pretty huge. 
When a game comes out, they tend to localise and the game is sold at different prices in different counties. If they didn't do this, the game would barely sell in that country. They might not make more money by reducing the cost of cash shop items for everyone, but for all those in the Czech guild, the asking price is a massive portion of their income. Paying for a value pack for one year is nearly the equivalent of a whole months wage...

Thank you., but don't feed the troll, he is not worthy.

 

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Posted (edited)

I honestly see nothing inside the cash shop that could be deemed as P2W. You could MAYBE argue Artisan's Memory, but even that relies heavily on the player gather items in game to be able to be used.

Honestly, unless you can buy items like Ogre Rings or pieces of boss gear (Kzarka weapons, Dandilion weapons) directly from the cash shop, peoples justification about how this game is pay to win is folly.

Thats because you don't want to acknowledge anything wrong in the game you love playing right now, so you post rationalize any flaw with this game to fit a narrative that allows you to, in good consciousness, continue playing and spending. Its only natural. Also you probably have no clue what "Pay2Win" means, like most gamers nowadays (ESPECIALLY mmo gamers, they are a lost cause at this point) Now don't take this personal, it is just an observation based on dealing with hundreds of people who replied to me with a similar statement as yours.

Nonetheless, you can't force someone to see or comprehend something that is literally right in their faces, when they don't want to see it. So I don't bother trying to explain the issues in this game anymore, people will do whatever the hell they want no matter what rationality you present to them. Kakao will scam the whales, and the whales want to be scammed by Kakao, thats what it is at the end of the day, for most mmos actually.

 

Edited by MMOStein

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Posted (edited)

 

Odd that neither you, nor anyone who keeps crying about P2W has been able to show how the game is P2W other than making a new definition for it and then claiming it's the only definition. One question though before you make a reply laced with insults and personal attacks, if the game was truly P2W and as bad as you claim it to be...why are you still here? Why is it the same people every day whining about how P2W the game is whilst still playing it? Oh, another question...why would Kakao HAVE to release Valk's Cry to prove me wrong, if the game was P2W surely I'd be wrong already; n'est ce pas? ;) 

It is, a game that is doing well financially is a healthy game which allows the publisher and developer tom focus on keeping their players happy rather than ensuring the game can be maintained. Company's need to make sure that they keep enough players happy that the game does well financially, seeing as revenue is high and increasing it shows that the game is doing well and that the majority of customers are happy. Please don't make the mistake of assuming that you're in the majority unless you have evidence to support you claim. 

Oh mr future man, please tell me what the lottery numbers are. If you want to be dramatic, try to be factual first. :) 

 

Ah sorry, wasn't aware people weren't allowed to have different opinions to you. Please report me straight away for this gross piece of negligence on my behalf. 

 

Or they'll make threads whining about something and never actually leave? If I pot my hand on a searing hot pan, I remove it before I get burnt; I don't leave it then and then call the company to complain how their pan is searing my skin. :) 

Aren't you tired of playing the card the game is doing well financially tho`? It's your only argument in every thread of this type. And the current poping up of these threads where 6/10 players have a different opinion than you says something tho`... ("oh, but, it's just the forum big mouths that talk here... right... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination)

The majority of current players is pleased, indeed. The majority of future players? The majority of possible players? We'll see.

Are you taking into account how small the playerbase of bdo actually is? It's about 20k concurent players, probably a bit less, according to the data that kakao eu has released. 

Yes, the game gained bunch of new players with the new class, like all games do when new patch hits. How many players of those will remain when they hit the walls that bdo has? 

The game is still bleeding players. Them "patching" the bleeding up with new players that come every 3-4 months for the new patch is not a permanent solution. 

Are you taking into account that for he customers the amount of money that the publisher makes is not important, but what is important is how they are treated? Kakao eu treats thier playerbase very badly, in case you didn't notice. 

 

Our mr future man. Lol. Are you aware that the interest in games drops over time? For bdo it started droping after the first 4-6 months for a big chunk of the players. It's only been a year, and you talk as if bdo is some big success. It's not rocket science. It's why they delay kamasilve and dark knight awakening, because there won't be any more new content to "patch" the bleeding of players for a long while since we'd have catched up with korea.

 

 

But hey, keep playing your side of the coin. It's the only thing you are capable of doing ;)

Edited by Chun-Chun
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Posted

i think people cry too much, if someone wants to buy a skin for however much.... let them, its their money they earn it.... who cares what they spend on, if its too expensive for u... well u can go without for go work more,

as for the company running the game, they need to make money somehow, if u DONT NEED more weight..... u DONT NEED more slots..... U DONT NEED pets...... yes pets help alot but u dont need them to play the game, i didnt buy any pets till i was 57.

if people are willing to pay money, they will charge it, i wouldnt sell a car for 200$ if someone is willing to pay 600$

moan less play more :D

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Posted

Could not have agreed more with OP

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Posted (edited)

u dont  "need" is very   very nice  word.

yes basiclly u even dont  neeed any inventory in this game ..u can just run like that ---not killing - not looting  just riding y horse .. doing complettly nothing  just enjoying weather.

 

but if  u really want to play this game ... than it is a lie.... because without pets  u just  come to a point where  u more picking  loot then fighting mobs ... and u relize  how much  u need those pets ... and how important they are.

some people keep sayign pets are for lazy people ... is not a must.     but those are just white knights ...its not about  being lazy is about TIME ...  guy with t4pets  will earn  in day  more then   guy without pets in week.

Edited by Narsi

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Posted

Thats because you don't want to acknowledge anything wrong in the game you love playing right now, so you post rationalize any flaw with this game to fit a narrative that allows you to, in good consciousness, continue playing and spending. Its only natural. Also you probably have no clue what "Pay2Win" means, like most gamers nowadays (ESPECIALLY mmo gamers, they are a lost cause at this point) Now don't take this personal, it is just an observation based on dealing with hundreds of people who replied to me with a similar statement as yours.

Nonetheless, you can't force someone to see or comprehend something that is literally right in their faces, when they don't want to see it. So I don't bother trying to explain the issues in this game anymore, people will do whatever the hell they want no matter what rationality you present to them. Kakao will scam the whales, and the whales want to be scammed by Kakao, thats what it is at the end of the day, for most mmos actually.

 

I don't play RuneScape anymore, I acknowledge there is nothing wrong with that game. I'm just bored of it.

There are issues with this game, I will not deny that. But the cash shop, aside from the pricing, is fine.

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Posted

i think people cry too much, if someone wants to buy a skin for however much.... let them, its their money they earn it.... who cares what they spend on, if its too expensive for u... well u can go without for go work more,

as for the company running the game, they need to make money somehow, if u DONT NEED more weight..... u DONT NEED more slots..... U DONT NEED pets...... yes pets help alot but u dont need them to play the game, i didnt buy any pets till i was 57.

if people are willing to pay money, they will charge it, i wouldnt sell a car for 200$ if someone is willing to pay 600$

moan less play more :D

And this my friend, this guy's logic right here, is exactly why a game like BDO will never be relevant.  And the sad part is, these people don't even realize how detrimental they are to their own game. Like I said. MMO gamers = lost cause. 

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Posted

Aren't you tired of playing the card the game is doing well financially tho`? It's your only argument in every thread of this type. And the current poping up of these threads where 6/10 players have a different opinion than you says something tho`... ("oh, but, it's just the forum big mouths that talk here... right... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination)

The majority of current players is pleased, indeed. The majority of future players? The majority of possible players? We'll see.

Are you taking into account how small the playerbase of bdo actually is? It's about 20k concurent players, probably a bit less, according to the data that kakao eu has released. 

Yes, the game gained bunch of new players with the new class, like all games do when new patch hits. How many players of those will remain when they hit the walls that bdo has? 

The game is still bleeding players. Them "patching" the bleeding up with new players that come every 3-4 months for the new patch is not a permanent solution. 

Are you taking into account that for he customers the amount of money that the publisher makes is not important, but what is important is how they are treated? Kakao eu treats thier playerbase very badly, in case you didn't notice. 

 

Our mr future man. Lol. Are you aware that the interest in games drops over time? For bdo it started droping after the first 4-6 months for a big chunk of the players. It's only been a year, and you talk as if bdo is some big success. It's not rocket science. It's why they delay kamasilve and dark knight awakening, because there won't be any more new content to "patch" the bleeding of players for a long while since we'd have catched up with korea.

 

 

But hey, keep playing your side of the coin. It's the only thing you are capable of doing ;)

Because to a business, it's the only one that matters.

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Posted

A few suggestions to the things mentioned... 

1. Endgame geared players in farming spots for  new players. Everybody knows it... its weekend u go farm sausans with y frends  but after few minutes come lvl 60 players 200+ap .... a say "spot taken"

Agreed. A solution would be to reduce drops and xp for grey mobs, and/or buffing valencia regions, which already has been asked for lots of times. The lack of storage/repair in combination with low silver/xp, compared to sausan and pirates, makes nobody want to grind in the desert. People should WANT to move to Valencia region, like they want to move to Mediah after Olvia/Velia/Heidel/Calpheon.

 

2. RNG on bosses  is crazzy and make people crazy.

A counter mechanic to RNG drops was introduced - the auras. Unfortunately, they drop with heavy RNG, too. A better solution would be that you *always* get 1 aura.

 

3. Market place  preorder, notification, bid  system ... pretty much everything u can make  much better. Nobody knows how it works ...and it makes pretty much everybody crazy.

It's well known how it works. Things that could be improved IMO:

- when someone won a bid on a stack but didn't buy the whole stack, the rest should go into bid system again. lots of scripts buy just 1 item off the stack, leaving lots of stacks open for "fastest click script win".

- better automated script detection. e.g. when a player clicks at the *exact* coordinates in *exactly* the same milliseconds intervals, over an extended period of time, it's a bot. there is no way you could do that manually.

 

4. solo /party play.

Also agreed. Solution would be to increase party bonus, and/or add more mobs. If one player can kill a whole area and gets better XP than if a second would join... of course then it's bad for party play. In MMOs, party play should be encouraged much more.

 

5. p2w problem- this is obvious

I see no problem here, it's highly subjective. The payment model is clear, you get some advantage with real cash, and it's always in the ballpark of around "10% better". I spent quite a bit on the game already and don't see it anywhere near being "win". Everything can be done in a better way by simply playing more and being "less lazy". There is no way at all I could e.g. spend a few hundred bucks and improve my existing gear in a reliable way. The underlying RNG throughout the whole game is much stronger than any cash shop item. If you accept the RNG, then the little extra silver someone can make with pearls, is really not a lot in comparison.

 

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Posted

First of all if you dont buy anything from cashshop your gameplay will be crippled by not enough inventory spaces, weight limit and more... If you dont want to feel crippled you need to spend cash. If you cant afford it and dont wanna feel crippled then there is only one solution find another game.
Also cashshop is localized for EU not separate EU states that would be impossible. The problem isnt localization the problem is huge inequality in income between EU states but that is not developer problem.

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Posted

 

1. Endgame geared players in farming spots for  new players. Everybody knows it... its weekend u go farm sausans with y frends  but after few minutes come lvl 60 players 200+ap .... a say "spot taken"

same  happens even on olvia chanels  when returning players  extremly overgeared go  farm gold in low lvl locations. Stupid is  there is so many options how u can  fix this ...but we still suffer cause u do nothing.

Its a bit true but no one stops less geared players from going to spots like elrics or helms. 

2. RNG on bosses  is crazzy and make people crazy. Pretty much  everybody knows  is ... every  guild got some "unlucky guys"  who plays  this game nolife   but even after hundreds of bosses and S knowledge ... still didnt drop desired  boss pieces.

Funny is  then come  new guy  1time ever  on boss in BOD ... no knowledge ,  die 15 x ... 7x hit   boss ..... got drop  Dande.  Everybody just say "lucker"  but in next 2weeks he drop another 2 pieces ... and then  guys  who play long time and didnt see single piece just wanna RAGEQUIT.

Night vendor, events and marketplace helps a lot. If you tell me you cant get  a boss armor from NV in 1 month of trying on 12 chars with 200+ energy I call that bullshit coz not geting any boss gear from nw in that time doing full bed regen on all chars is like geting a Pen on 0 stacks.

3. Market place  preorder, notification, bid  system ... pretty much everything u can make  much better. Nobody knows how it works ...and it makes pretty much everybody crazy.

highest bid wins. Only some items go to preorder (rng) I got tri accesories and tet gear from it without a problem.Items go up 10-15min after notification. Biding is 100% chance divided by all ppl who bid on the item.

4. solo /party play. Every gaming company  understand  that THE REASON  why are some games  as WOW  etc etc .... so popular and dont die  in years is  community and frends.

BOD is first mmo i play  where   SOLO is MUUCH BETTER EXP and MOney....  but  u know GUYS what will happend  after  that 3month of no life solo grind ?  people burn out ... and quit. { in my guild  left in last 2months  all  lvl 60players except 1}

and this model  is rly flawed cause u created system in which  STRONG players  are punished for helping new players ...

if 2players  would earn 90% exp  and drop is x1.5 would  be still not so attractive for strrongest players  but some poeple will start to play as duo .

if 3-4-5 players  wuold earn 80% exp  and drop is x 2/ 2.5/ 3 .... most OP players would still solo  BUT   we will see more  guild groops ... and that means  more NEW Players, more PVP  more players.

Best exp is 5man party Pirates or akmann if you feel like solo is better ur party is trash.  Best money is 5man party 

5. p2w problem- this is obvious u are just  too greedy.

cmon guys  there should be some reasonable MONEY   which if i pay i can enjoy game in its beauty without any restriction.

because i see every day  this discussion  on world/roleplay  channel. and as i see it both sides are right, because  is not 100% pay to win  BUT ...

biggest facor in this game  is TIME... pretty much if u not stupid, and if u play hard...not just chatting with frends  then only diff  betwen players is TIME...

 and those pearl items  gives u speed  boost, exp  boost,  farming faster,  farming more, more exp, more  slots, more weight, ....BUT i  am okey with this.

 

Eyyy something i can agree on They are greedy as ----- on top of the reroll/breeding/pet system being designed to milk thousands of $$$ from just one player.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

 

Odd that neither you, nor anyone who keeps crying about P2W has been able to show how the game is P2W other than making a new definition for it and then claiming it's the only definition. One question though before you make a reply laced with insults and personal attacks, if the game was truly P2W and as bad as you claim it to be...why are you still here? Why is it the same people every day whining about how P2W the game is whilst still playing it? Oh, another question...why would Kakao HAVE to release Valk's Cry to prove me wrong, if the game was P2W surely I'd be wrong already; n'est ce pas? ;) 

Eh bien mon cher Jean Pierre, déjà sachez qu'il vous reste un bon bout de chemin avant de penser pouvoir me prendre de haut.

Next, Personnal attacks? You call everyone fools all the time and you take a vicious pleasure to push whiners away with a huge smile (i can feel it when you think you're smart), but let's be honest for a second here my little Plungie:

There's no better MMO around here, TERA/AION/WOW are relics of the past now, and BDO staff clearly knows how to use the advantage of having an original product (kinda unique playstyle trough all the lifeskills + energy CP system) to maintain large profits. Game is doing """"good"""" for now.

And what is that? Making a new definition? No Plungie, you just stick to LITTERAL DEFINITION WHICH MEANS: YOU PAY YOU WIN THE GAME THEN GG NEXT GAME. (like FPS with a good'ol fatty CS, try War Rock old as f)

But BDO Offers a different kind of P2W, you pay to go FASTER. (Can you see?) so by doing so you got stuff/lvl's/money EARLIER THAN OTHERS and what does this affect?

Your efficiency, and in BDO what is the most important factor besides RNG? PLAYTIME ! (And it is much more important than Wow where you can go raid and full stuff gg) Since you need time to do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING and they designed their game to be a TIME CONSUMER BEFORE ALL, (Why is there no teleport for example heh? Think it's just FOR SOME RP IMMERSION??? T8 needs to sell horse coupon my man.) so offering "P2Fast" (hipster term tho) services is LIKE A P2W WITH A JOKER MASK. And you are all eating it with a smile. Going faster is also not dependant of RNG, which means they can use this argument to say: No, not P2W because it does not provide you direct items.

And guess what? Since it's RNG for you all the way, IF you are less geared than the "free player" it's not because you did not use P2F or P2W Tools, it's because RNG makes you fail over and over. Being Lucky has nothing to do with it so they got an endless loop mixing CS features & frustration of players due to RNG. That is why a model like that is a scam, there's nothing to say to deny it. (Btw have you tried to get a T8 to P2W your travels? It's horrid) In the end, the CS users always got more gear/money/lvl's.... nothing new.

And whine trough forum is endless, because every knew player that starts BDO is a whiner without knowing it, except for vicious/hatefull/addicted/unrealistic/mytho/Proud/greed ppl, choose your pick. (several if you like i know you're not shy)

I wan't them to release valk cry so their mask drops, and we can finally get an END to the story behind the holy "P2Fast" which is also know as the 9/11 in MMO terms.

More questions Plungie? :)

 

 

Edited by Shastalya

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Posted

i think people cry too much, if someone wants to buy a skin for however much.... let them, its their money they earn it.... who cares what they spend on, if its too expensive for u... well u can go without for go work more,

as for the company running the game, they need to make money somehow, if u DONT NEED more weight..... u DONT NEED more slots..... U DONT NEED pets...... yes pets help alot but u dont need them to play the game, i didnt buy any pets till i was 57.

if people are willing to pay money, they will charge it, i wouldnt sell a car for 200$ if someone is willing to pay 600$

moan less play more :D

If what the op is saying is true, that he is sitting in a Czech guild where only one or two people have paid for pearls... Then in that instance, people from that minority are not willing to pay "$600" or the higher price. There's a complete difference to charging me in the UK $600 for a car, where it would be half of my month's salary, to charging someone in that guild $600, where it would be over 1 1/2x their monthly salary. You can't just go and tell people to work more when they could be in a country where they are working full time hours and still not earning enough to support themselves/family and spend money at the same rate as people from another country can, because of the wage differences. Most other games localise their prices because of this, for whatever reason BDO does not.

These items are not 100% needed, but they do make a huge difference in game play and the majority of players appear to buy at least some of them. If you were unable to buy them because of a lower income wage (despite working full time) or being charged 4x the value that the majority is being charged for the same items, would you not feel upset by this? 

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Posted (edited)

Because to a business, it's the only one that matters.

Yo, check out how much of a big bussiness i am. You're a bussiness as well.

Everybody's a business!

 

Too bad that we're bad bussineses. Those type that don't give a shit about customers. The type that doesn't communicate with their clients. The type that lies. The type that delays. The type that beats around the bush. The type that never gives precise info, just ambigous shit. The type that ALWAYS brakes something and ALWAYS announces something wrong. The type of bussiness like kakao is.

We are players. We care about how we are treated. We are the customers. And since these threads keep poping up and most opinions are different than your's and your master's; i suppose that people are displeased. I wonder why? I wonder what happens with displeased customers in the end? I woder how many displeased customers is kakao capable of replacing? I truly wonder when the day that we catch up with KR (even tho` they delay it intentionally); will come, how will they patch the bleeding? 

 

When you buy a phone; first thing you ask is how much money did apple make this quarter form selling those phones; or how will the phone help you? 

Edited by Chun-Chun

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Posted

+

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And here we go, another confirmation that Valencia is pure bullshit.

So many issues would be fixed if they just made Valencia mobs equal to pirates.

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There are issues with this game, I will not deny that. But the cash shop, aside from the pricing, is fine.

Once again, you can't even see it to begin with. You even acknowledged a problem in that very statement and probably don't even realize it. But it's "just fine", right? Right.

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The love for fresh flesh heh? Yeah sure why not be a ghoul, it suits you after all. But not the anime ghouls with nice hair and smile, more like oblivion where you got 3 tooths left.

Was that your attempt at an insult?

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Posted (edited)

If what the op is saying is true, that he is sitting in a Czech guild where only one or two people have paid for pearls... Then in that instance, people from that minority are not willing to pay "$600" or the higher price. There's a complete difference to charging me in the UK $600 for a car, where it would be half of my month's salary, to charging someone in that guild $600, where it would be over 1 1/2x their monthly salary. You can't just go and tell people to work more when they could be in a country where they are working full time hours and still not earning enough to support themselves/family and spend money at the same rate as people from another country can, because of the wage differences. Most other games localise their prices because of this, for whatever reason BDO does not.
These items are not 100% needed, but they do make a huge difference in game play and the majority of players appear to buy at least some of them. If you were unable to buy them because of a lower income wage (despite working full time) or being charged 4x the value that the majority is being charged for the same items, would you not feel upset by this? 

Their next argument will be: "If they can't afford to spend on thier hobby, then they shouldn't have that hobby". Because "poor" people are allowed to have only cheap hobbies, because it's truly their fault that the highest paid job in their country is 400-500$ per month - at least that's what they think :). (without taking into account that gaming is probably the cheapest hobby out there).

They keep spweing SAME arguments in EVERY thread of this type. And they'll repeat the same arguments until you're bored of actually arguing with them. 

Don't even bother...

Edited by Chun-Chun
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MIMIMI xD

isst nen snickers mimimi.jpg

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Once again, you can't even see it to begin with. You even acknowledged a problem in that very statement and probably don't even realize it. But it's "just fine", right? Right.

Okay, let me break this down barney style so that you can't misconstrued what I said.

The one thing I find bad about the cash shop is the pricing of the items within it.

Other than that, I do not find anything wrong with the items, nor the function of the items within the cash shop.

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Aye aye, it's kinda late to Wake up now and i don't think they are willing to listen anyway.

It will take time before things change, better or worse, they'll change.

Let us keep an eye on the next rival that could shake BDO a bit. Ashes of ceation? Maybe?

Because as it is now, there's not really a better MMO out there (my opinion). Too many little scams in the middle of it tho.

 

You are speaking as if 10 million people would be playing this game LULZ

Flashnews: Most of the people that returned with Dark Knight has left again. No more full crowded channels.

I run a leveling guild to help new players and i recruit people every 2 weeks cause most people stop playing after that time.


Noone needs to shake BDO, it does it itself. And remember, there are plenty of other type of games around, we don't really NEED to be playing an MMO to keep on living... Well BDO is not even an MMO, is a single player game for most people basically.

Edited by crosspath

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Blablabla..

Oh i'm sorry i can't remember who started to feel smart an hour ago?  

Other than that, I do not find anything wrong with the items, nor the function of the items within the cash shop.

Ok nice, sheep 'till the end.

You are speaking as if 10 million people would be playing this game LULZ
Flashnews: Most of the people that returned with Dark Knight has left again. No more full crowded channels.

I run a leveling guild to help new players and i recruit people every 2 weeks cause most people stop playing after that time.


Noone needs to shake BDO, it does it itself. And remember there are plenty of other type of games around, we don't really NEED to be playing an MMO to keep on living... Well BDO is not even an MMO, is a single player game for most people basically.

That is the sad truth and it's again a gold mine wasted.

Their next argument will be: "If they can't afford to spend on thier hobby, then they shouldn't have that hobby". Because "poor" people are allowed to have only cheap hobbies, because it's truly their fault that the highest paid job in their country is 400-500$ per month - at least that's what they think :). (without taking into account that gaming is probably the cheapest hobby out there).

They keep spweing SAME arguments in EVERY thread of this type. And they'll repeat the same arguments until you're bored of actually arguing with them. 

Don't even bother...

This, over 9000 actually, hate is free i often forget.

 

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