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DP buff in PvP

38 posts in this topic

Posted

Is it DP only for us? or DP in general?

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Posted (edited)

DP as DR or Eva? (DR definitely needs buff, Eva not at all)

Hell i dont even know if warrs buffs from skills are 50-50 DR/Eva or what...

【Character】

● PvP defense efficiency of all characters has been increased.

Edited by RoakOriginal

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Posted

Is it DP only for us? or DP in general?

It's for everyone and as Roak posted, it's unclear what it means, so I hope you can get some insighs into what it means for warriors in KR

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Posted

It's for everyone and as Roak posted, it's unclear what it means, so I hope you can get some insighs into what it means for warriors in KR

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/132128100

Looks like small DR increase...

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Posted

So basically nothing 

I'd rather see small incremental changes than huge ones. 

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Posted

I'd rather see small incremental changes than huge ones. 

How is even DR calculated currently? Its still flat dmg decrease (with some ratio maybe), or they finally moved into "armor system"? Havent seen any DR tests since early release...

It can be it got changed into typical armor scaling from that linear stupidity along the way, and Bong is simply at a point, where it breaks even... That would help lower geared classes a bit... Though with awakened scaling and even him bein blown up quite fast, its kinda pointless change...

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Posted

How is even DR calculated currently? Its still flat dmg decrease (with some ratio maybe), or they finally moved into "armor system"? Havent seen any DR tests since early release...

It can be it got changed into typical armor scaling from that linear stupidity along the way, and Bong is simply at a point, where it breaks even... That would help lower geared classes a bit... Though with awakened scaling and even him bein blown up quite fast, its kinda pointless change...

I haven't seen any testing that says it's a flat damage decrease per DP - do you have a link to something? I'm honestly more inclined to think it's a scaling %age. We need a test like this done that takes into account the datamined DR values of armor and takes evasion out of the equation ( https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4iuhel/dp_damage_reduction_scaling_calculations/ )

I don't think we're ready to see a change so big that people aren't being blown up fast with 250-260AP that those guys are rocking. There would be a whole new kind of imbalance. 

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Posted

I haven't seen any testing that says it's a flat damage decrease per DP - do you have a link to something? I'm honestly more inclined to think it's a scaling %age. We need a test like this done that takes into account the datamined DR values of armor and takes evasion out of the equation ( https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4iuhel/dp_damage_reduction_scaling_calculations/ )

I don't think we're ready to see a change so big that people aren't being blown up fast with 250-260AP that those guys are rocking. There would be a whole new kind of imbalance. 

Those look suspiciously familiar, so maybe thats what i was thinking about... My memory is crap and i started to save links only lately...

Still it shows that DR scales linearly on the first sight, which is similar problem (or its even worse)... Common armor mechanic would be curved, since its made that every other bonus point lowers the damage taken by the same %... (meaning first 100 dp would lower dmg taken by 50%, another 100 dp by another 50% (result 75% reduction), another 100 by another 50% (result 87.5% reduced dmg taken))... Graphs showing how common armor works are bellow (couldnt find any nice looking on web, so i pulled some numbers out of my ass)...

While reddit test shows it scales linearly (it shows whole DP, not only DR, but we know armor has both in similar ratio, so it just changes steepness a bit, not overall shape), meaning we could easily hit 0 dmg taken... So it has to be "balanced accordingly"...  Resulting in extremely weak effect early, to not reach sick numbers later... And since maximum DR obtainable still has to have effect that allows its holder to die, anything bellow it is simply crap... If they changed it, so it follows common armor scaling (image bellow), and the old linear growth crosses this one around DR obtained from 310 DP (placeholder number... am in no mood to count how much DR he has), it explains why it had almost no effect on Bong changing gear a bit... While it would help lower geared people with their survivability a lot, and remove the invicibility problem from that pseudo-linear growth... And they can adjust this cross-point later... So not only endgame wont be about blowing up, but even lower geared players would be able to survive a hit...

Screen2.png

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Posted (edited)

My problem with that reddit test is indeed that they were testing with whole DP from armor pieces, which we know is mixed evasion/DR - it's likely that accuracy was playing into their test and skewing numbers. I'd like to see some tests done with pure DR like Kite, token of friendship, shrine guardian token, and if using armor make sure that accuracy is not an issue at all by stacking a lot of it and only counting the DR from the armor in the test. 

If it really was just 1 damage reduced per point of DR, it would cripple the damage of some classes like Kunoichi that do a ton of small hits while doing almost nothing to others that have only a few hits but high damage. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Posted

If it really was just 1 damage reduced per point of DR, it would cripple the damage of some classes like Kunoichi that do a ton of small hits while doing almost nothing to others that have only a few hits but high damage. 

What have sense. Try to penetrate steel plate armor by dagger (especially made from japanese iron).

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Posted

My problem with that reddit test is indeed that they were testing with whole DP from armor pieces, which we know is mixed evasion/DR - it's likely that accuracy was playing into their test and skewing numbers. I'd like to see some tests done with pure DR like Kite, token of friendship, shrine guardian token, and if using armor make sure that accuracy is not an issue at all by stacking a lot of it and only counting the DR from the armor in the test. 

If it really was just 1 damage reduced per point of DR, it would cripple the damage of some classes like Kunoichi that do a ton of small hits while doing almost nothing to others that have only a few hits but high damage. 

Accuracy aint skewing anything, since he even has hits done mentioned bellow... So he has that checked (he could also use some of the 100% acc skills... who knows... But even if not, it would just fluctuate a bit more... It wouldnt change overall look, with hundreds of repetitions)... It just means that instead of graphic showing dmg per 100 DR it shows per 200 DP... Changes only steepnes of a line... Wont change a curve... So even if it doesnt scale by those numbers, it should still scale linearly, and thats the problem...

What have sense. Try to penetrate steel plate armor by dagger (especially made from japanese iron).

You know who was main enemy of heavy knights? Archers and farmers in groups with small weapons, piercing weak points and joints in armor... It was the most shameful and most effective way to kill that mountain of metal...

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Posted

You know who was main enemy of heavy knights? Archers and farmers in groups with small weapons, piercing weak points and joints in armor... It was the most shameful and most effective way to kill that mountain of metal...

Bow is even unable to penetrate chainmail armor (exception is very strong longbowman), about plate armor you can forget. Knights barely died on battles, only rly few types of weapons was able to penetrate armors like: crossbow, estoc, exe. Ofc, typical weapon also but effectivity was low. Main victim of battles was peasants, and support forces whos does not have money - good knight armor was worth more than few villages. So overall you can forget about ninja fighting medieval knight - it would be extremely one sided.

 

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Posted (edited)

Bow is even unable to penetrate chainmail armor (exception is very strong longbowman), about plate armor you can forget. Knights barely died on battles, only rly few types of weapons was able to penetrate armors like: crossbow, estoc, exe. Ofc, typical weapon also but effectivity was low. Main victim of battles was peasants, and support forces whos does not have money - good knight armor was worth more than few villages. So overall you can forget about ninja fighting medieval knight - it would be extremely one sided.

 

Not by arrows... :D By daggers/knifes... :D One of the most reliable counters top heavy infantry was soft soil and bunch of plebs running around them and stabbing their joints... :D Couldnt be used often, but it was easy, reliable and shameful...

Edited by RoakOriginal

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Posted

Not by arrows... :D By daggers/knifes... :D One of the most reliable counters top heavy infantry was soft soil and bunch of plebs running around them and stabbing their joints... :D Couldnt be used often, but it was easy, reliable and shameful...

Like plebs would ever have enought morale to run around heavy troops.

But in fact something like this had place when French heavy forces got stuck in the deep mud and English archers just slaughtered them by daggers and short swords (do not remember year and place of battle). but that is not typical battle environment, and flaw of idiot French commander. Also it is only known battle with that kind of outcome when hevy troops meet plebs.

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Posted (edited)

What have sense. Try to penetrate steel plate armor by dagger (especially made from japanese iron).

That might make sense if there were actually different armor types in this game, but everybody has basically the same armor and defense outside of class-based buffs. Not to mention what Roak mentioned about small stabbing weapons being effective against heavy armor joints. It's not the armored parts that you aim for, but the joints and openings. 

Edited by Kutsuu

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Posted

Like plebs would ever have enought morale to run around heavy troops.

But in fact something like this had place when French heavy forces got stuck in the deep mud and English archers just slaughtered them by daggers and short swords (do not remember year and place of battle). but that is not typical battle environment, and flaw of idiot French commander. Also it is only known battle with that kind of outcome when hevy troops meet plebs.

Ofc its not typical.. If it was i wouldnt remember it with my shitty memory... :D I remember it bcs it looked interesting and guys in TV were talking about it almost as much as about other military strategies... :D Several times repeating how shameful it was for the nobles to die this way, and that it was the easiest way to get rid of them... :D But also iirc it was then used more often... Not just mud, but also traps, webs etc... I can be wrong though...

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Posted

That might make sense if there were actually different armor types in this game, but everybody has basically the same armor and defense outside of class-based buffs. Not to mention what Roak mentioned about small stabbing weapons being effective against heavy armor joints. It's not the armored parts that you aim for, but the joints and openings. 

It is the reason every class has its own stats and armors look differently for each class.

Ofc its not typical.. If it was i wouldnt remember it with my shitty memory... :D I remember it bcs it looked interesting and guys in TV were talking about it almost as much as about other military strategies... :D Several times repeating how shameful it was for the nobles to die this way, and that it was the easiest way to get rid of them... :D But also iirc it was then used more often... Not just mud, but also traps, webs etc... I can be wrong though...

Do not understand me wrong. But plate armors was used in battles. Usually nobles had more types of armors, include representative armor and travel armors (mostly chains or leathers). And to battle place and after battle knights stay in the squadron. Scouting was plebs job. So catch in trap the knight in full gear was kinda hard.

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Posted

So basically nothing 

wouldn't say it means nothing, even small additional scaling from DR could mean alot.

and as others said i'd rather see small changes that dont completely break the game, then massive ones that do.

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Posted (edited)

@Hekki don't derail threads with your RP bs

Back to topic: Have there been any more tests in KR?

Edited by Hennyman

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Posted

At least bong with his 283 ap still two-three shot ppl with 300ish dp

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Posted (edited)

wouldn't say it means nothing, even small additional scaling from DR could mean alot.

and as others said i'd rather see small changes that dont completely break the game, then massive ones that do.

What.... im definitely playing some other game to be honest. the game is already broken pvp wise. By far the worst balanced game (mmorpg) i played through the years. The dp system needs an overall change. Its ridiculous how it works right now and very very overwhelming for new players. Koreans need to understand that europe needs stats, and knowledge of a game someone is playing. But to the matter again... dp definitely needs reworking. 

It is the reason every class has its own stats and armors look differently for each class.

Do not understand me wrong. But plate armors was used in battles. Usually nobles had more types of armors, include representative armor and travel armors (mostly chains or leathers). And to battle place and after battle knights stay in the squadron. Scouting was plebs job. So catch in trap the knight in full gear was kinda hard.

Nice info there... we should make a thread and discuss more about these kind of stuff... since some of us play warrios as a lifestyle in games and get triggered a ot by this kind of info! :)

Edited by AwakenedTemplar

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Posted

What.... im definitely playing some other game to be honest. the game is already broken pvp wise. By far the worst balanced game (mmorpg) i played through the years. The dp system needs an overall change. Its ridiculous how it works right now and very very overwhelming for new players. Koreans need to understand that europe needs stats, and knowledge of a game someone is playing. But to the matter again... dp definitely needs reworking. 

Nice info there... we should make a thread and discuss more about these kind of stuff... since some of us play warrios as a lifestyle in games and get triggered a ot by this kind of info! :)

i dont believe i ever said it didnt need reworking, i just said that even a small increase in scaling for DR would go a long way, and that i'd rather see small incremental increases rather than massive ones so the game does not get broken.

best thing they could do is just remove dp as a stat entirely and show how much DR and how much eva you actually have, along wit haccuracy. doing that along with buffs to specific stats and not saying (we have buffed x) 

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Posted

Another change to DP in PvP. Probably why they didn't just go ham with effectiveness of stats. Can't wait to see some tests

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