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Best strategy to get the good skills on a T8? (RESOLVED)

36 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

EDIT: I think I understand the whole situation, so I wanna thank the people that helped. If you have some interesting theory other than the ones mentioned already, please share. For now, I decided to lvl up to 30 and use swaps If it makes sense to do so and considering the skills the horse will learn up to 30. I will try to get another T8 if this proves to be a failure (which is very likely from the things I read so far).

Original post:

So, I got my first T8 (which I never thought it would happen tbh), and I will spend pearls/loyalties to make it a good one for a chance for T9 later on, because I don't really wanna go through the trouble of getting more of them. This will probably be my first and last T8. I have only used breed resets several months ago, so I don't know how to go about using skill changes and skill deletions.

At the moment Lucky_Strike is level 16 with the following skills.

1. Hind Kick
2. Fore Chop
3. S. Front Kick
4. Start Accel
5. High Jump
6. Quick Stop
7. Quick Back
8. Quick Ride
9. Roar
10. Sideways Move

What would you, experienced breeders,  advice me to do?

2017-03-31_202209381.thumb.JPG.f74d173b7

Edited by Graviera

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Posted

If you refer to page 1 of the horse thread year 2 pinned at the top of the forums - plenty of info there, this is what it says:

Some breeders on the Horse Breeders Discord (ask in a post on this forum if you want an invite) have been testing to come up with a theory for how horses learn skills.  You can read that discussion here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/128269-how-horse-skill-gain-likely-works/

 

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Posted

If you refer to page 1 of the horse thread year 2 pinned at the top of the forums - plenty of info there, this is what it says:

Some breeders on the Horse Breeders Discord (ask in a post on this forum if you want an invite) have been testing to come up with a theory for how horses learn skills.  You can read that discussion here: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/128269-how-horse-skill-gain-likely-works/

 

Didn't know. Thank you.

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Posted

 

What would you, "experienced breeders",  advice me to do?

Sell it so I can buy it, danks xD

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Posted

Just change Fore Chop for another skill. When your horse re-learned it on next lvl up change it again. Its a good way to get a high amount of skills, even premium ones, cause FC is one of the most learned skills by horses.

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Posted

Didn't know. Thank you.

No problem! Plenty of info on all aspects of horses :) 

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Posted (edited)

So, I got my first T8 (which I never thought it would happen tbh), and I will spend pearls/loyalties to make it a good one for a chance for T9 later on, because I don't really wanna go through the trouble of getting more of them. This will probably be my first and last T8. I have only used breed resets several months ago, so I don't know how to go about using skill changes and skill deletions.

At the moment Lucky_Strike is level 16 with the following skills.

1. Hind Kick
2. Fore Chop
3. S. Front Kick
4. Start Accel
5. High Jump
6. Quick Stop
7. Quick Back
8. Quick Ride
9. Roar
10. Sideways Move

What would you, experienced breeders,  advice me to do?

swap both hind kick and forechop (swap hind kick first since it got less % to learn than forechop so when you swap forechop, less chance to relearn hind kick - based on my exp) for other skill, then keep leveling :) 

level 16 with 10 skill is not bad, but not really good as well :) since you are missing quite a lot (drift, sprint, IA, S:IA, S:Sidemoves, charge) for courser horse

Edited by Nguyen Ken
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Posted

the strat ? RNG ?

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Posted

the strat ? RNG ?

Hehe, I know it is RNG. But as I have said a lot of times in this forum RNG is not Chaos. There are ways to turn chances to your favor even if it is by a small margin. I am not asking for a full proof strategy or something. There is no such thing in BDO. But as with enchanting there are ways to possibly better the odds. At least this is my overall experience up to now. And trust me, I had lots of bad luck in this game. I am in no way RNG carried. But I have played a lot this game and I have seen patterns from gathering to looting to enchanting. Could be my imagination, could be coincidence, could be correct. Can't prove it and I don't care to tbh :)

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Posted

Disheartening but pretty useful . Thank you.

I hear you!

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Posted

Hehe, I know it is RNG. But as I have said a lot of times in this forum RNG is not Chaos.

Actualy its close to the chaos considering the very low % success chance they use ( ofc to even more promote the cash shop, but totaly not on a gameplay prupose )

And there is so far no controlable work around.

 

BDO is a lottery for the majority of his system, saddly.

There are ways to turn chances to your favor even if it is by a small margin

You mean using $$$$$$ to skip RNG as much as possible with the cash shop ? yeah.

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Posted

Actualy its close to the chaos considering the very low % success chance they use ( ofc to even more promote the cash shop, but totaly not on a gameplay prupose )

And there is so far no controlable work around.

 

BDO is a lottery for the majority of his system, saddly.

You mean using $$$$$$ to skip RNG as much as possible with the cash shop ? yeah.

BDO is a lottery in the sense that you always just have just a chance to succeed something. The difference to Chaos is that chaos has no chance at all. It is completely unpredictable and there is nothing to do to help prediction other than gather a huge amount of data for relatively small improvement on short term predictions. For example weather (a chaotic system) predictions.

In BDO there are many cases where there are methods to make odds better but never guaranteed. For enchanting is failstacks, for gathering is life stones/lucky tools, for looting is Kama buff. These are some examples. Of course they promote cash shop sales through all of these. I was the one claiming that you can actually make silver through certain enchanting procedures with AM (which I actually have done so).

I am one of the players that firmly believe that BDO has p2w aspects and in the case of horse skills those aspects are outrageous and down right shady. You won't find a white knight in me. I know very well the culprits of many BDO systems and how annoying they are. I know very well how much further a paying player will get and whatever. But still, I like the game, I play it a lot, and frankly I fail to see the benefit of constantly complaining about things told a thousand times in this forum by players who played hundreds and thousands of hours. P2w yes, Cash shop advantages, yes. Can we change it? No. So, one either stops playing or not. I don't see any other option really. I choose to play and get the good and the bad with it.

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Posted (edited)

BDO is a lottery in the sense that you always just have just a chance to succeed something.

But in a lottery you have to way to know if / when you are going to succeed like in BDO, Whatever what you do, RNG will have the last word.

The difference to Chaos is that chaos has no chance at all

You contradict yourself here ->

It is completely unpredictable and there is nothing to do to help prediction other than gather a huge amount of data for relatively small improvement on short term predictions. For example weather (a chaotic system) predictions.

Somes stuff like in the crap gear RNG enchance might make you think you "help" your success chance, but in the RNG, rng will always have the last word.

 

So yes BDO RNG is chaotic, since you cant predict AT ALL if you are going to succeed.

 

Weather prediction are far more reliable than BDO RNG xD

The only thing very reliable in BDO, are the GM box stuff, where you can be sure at 99.99% to have a black stone.

Edited by woots

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Posted

But in a lottery you have to way to know if / when you are going to succeed like in BDO, Whatever what you do, RNG will have the last word.

You contradict yourself here ->

BDO RNG is chaotic, since you cant predict if you are going to succeed.

You can predict and you can succeed or fail your prediction. This is the nature of all predictions. There is no way to code chaos. You can only code RNG. RNG is pseudo randomness. Real people have coded the modules/classes whatever to simulate randomness in a non-reversible manner. But still there are settings in any pseudo RNG engine. settings that produce a distribution of results that may appear chaotic from an observers stand point  but they are not so from a coder's point.

There is nothing to argue here. Feel free to stand by your opinions. I have no intention trying to change them.

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Posted

You can predict and you can succeed or fail your prediction.

=> you cant predict xD

 

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Posted (edited)

=> you cant predict xD

 

Actually and with no mistake, no, you can't, unless you are a prophet. But there many things we do predict every second with astonishing success. Like putting one foot in front of the other in order walk. Of course there is the anthropic principle that says that this is actually the reason the world is as is. Because we actually predict it the way we do. And then quantum mechanics.... And you know, from a philosophical stand point I actually do believe that we predict/control nothing and that free will is just an illusion useful to our survival. But I think we derailed my thread enough for now. I 'd be glad to continue this with PMs if you wish to. This thread was meant to be about my T8... :)

Edited by Graviera
grammas

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Posted (edited)

Take the "Forechop swap" method with a grain of salt.

There's also another camp of horse breeders who believe that regardless how many "easy skills" there are to learn, they also believe that if a horse is going to learn a skill at level-up, then it's going to learn a skill regardless whether there are easy skills left or rarer skills. If there's an easy skill to learn, then chances are it will learn that. But on the flip side, if all the unlearned skills are hard to get, then you're going to get one of those because it's already been determined that your horse will learn a skill. This camp believes that unlearned easy skills don't increase the chance of learning a skill, because that's going to happen regardless.

I've tried the "Forechop swap" game, and sat several levels training up a T8 horse that had forechop swapped out, and it learns nothing.

I'm in the camp that believes this method is reinforced by confirmation bias. Swap out an easy skill, next level up, sho'nuff, it learns the same skill back, swap it, rinse repeat. But when realistically the horse would have learned another skill regardless whether forechop (or any easy skill was available).

Myself personally, after having leveled up numerous T8's now, the skill change game has little if any impact during level up. My primary T8 keeper required no skill change coupons (T8C with 18 of 19 skills, granted that was one helluva RNG jackpot). But the rest, whether I play the skill change swap game, or let it ride without skill change coupons, on average all the horses still wind up with the same average number of total skills with the occasional extremes above or below. I'm now spending significantly less in skill change coupons, with the same results. I've seen people use the skill swap game and spend an obscene amount trying to get the skills they want, only to get to 30 and STILL have to spend an exorbitant amount after that (when all they needed to do was wait until the end and save a few coupons).

My personal recommendation? Don't start spending skill change coupons until your horse hits 30. At least then you'll know whether it'll be cheap or expensive before jumping in to the game. Or, at the very least, if you want to put faith in the skill swap method, wait until your horse hits lvl 25, assess how many skills your horse has learned versus how many are left to go, and then try the skill swap game if you deem it worthwhile, because it'll mitigate the losses should it not pan out.

 

Edited by DenverRalphy
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Posted (edited)

What bothers me to believe some of the theories mentionned in this thread is the message we get on level up telling that we get a better chance of learning a skill.

as I see it, 2 possibilities:

1) only 1 RNG test on level up : roll a dice on which skill is learned, and no skill is part of the pool (as 100% - sum of the others). Every level, learnable skills (or just one of them) gain(s) a bit of % except "no skill" of course
seems to fit best the coupon theory, but not the message and seems a bit complicated as an algorithm for what it does

2) a first RNG test to decide if you learn a skill or not (that one gets boosted on level up - probably x number of skill left though not as a raw value ), then a second one to pick in the pool of skills with their different probabilities of being learned.  (depending on tier)
Fits best the levelling message - seems easier to code and maintain as an algorithm but would make coupons useless till level 30.

So now the questions is how many trainers have not used any coupon change on their T8 so we can compare the number of skills learned to thise who use them?

 

 

Edit... well, someone typed faster :D

Edited by magret
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Posted

The Autists in Korea need to take a break from making useless empty Landscapes & boring HP sponge mobs to focus an entire Update on just the Horse Lifeskill by finally adding some kind of PlayerSkill Ceiling mechanics into the mix so it becomes more than just an AFK lottery

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Posted (edited)

Not enough skill at level 30? Play the premium appearance horse change coupon game. Apparently it gives 50% chance of learning a skill! Yes, you can keep using it until you max out all the basics skills( can't learn S's skills)

However, it isn't cheap. Each try is almost $10 for a ''50%'' chance, which is, of course, unconfirmed. 

Edited by Onii-sama
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Posted (edited)

I'd take my time on getting a T9 if I were you.. don't spend too much money.

The awakening rate is apparently abysmal(Under 5%-KR speculates a whopping 1%-), and you're back at 0% of the 200% bar needed on a failure(or you can pay 100mil and only lose 100%).

Other than that, good links have been posted. In the end it's RNG since your horse may just be a total lemon(as a friend's T8 ended up with only 10 skills).

Edited by PandoraRose
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Posted

I'd take my time on getting a T9 if I were you.. don't spend too much money.

The awakening rate is apparently abysmal(Under 5%-KR speculates a whopping 1%-), and you're back at 0% of the 200% bar needed on a failure(or you can pay 100mil and only lose 100%).

Other than that, good links have been posted. In the end it's RNG since your horse may just be a total lemon(as a friend's T8 ended up with only 10 skills).

After reading the information recommended by the players that posted in this thread.  I think I agree with you. I will take it slow again and we 'll see. I got some T6 females with breeds available and a couple T7s left. If the specific T8 proves to be a lemon, I 'll try to get a another one. Although It will be very hard.  These are 1 year's results for me because I never got into breeding seriously, I usually opted doing other stuff when afk overnight/work (which worked out very nicely but not regarding horses :)).

@DenverRalphy, @magret
Thank you, I understand now the whole thing with the swap method and the couple variations on how to use it. I think I will go up to lvl 30 with this one and see what RNG brings and go from there...

@Onii-sama
Yes I found out about the appearance coupons too. Thanks for pointing it out though.

@iller
I agree with you that lifeskills could actually be made more active at least as an option that would yield better results. Especially for training. But we all know the reasons they keep things that way and will continue to do so as long as sales are up to their expectations.

 

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Posted (edited)

Just change Fore Chop for another skill. When your horse re-learned it on next lvl up change it again. Its a good way to get a high amount of skills, even premium ones, cause FC is one of the most learned skills by horses.

Can you do this with the loyalty item? or pearl shop one only?

Edited by crosspath

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