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Idea to fix Karma Bombing

11 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

After talking to someone in-game about this, an idea of how to fix karma bombing came to be.
So, I'll use my most recent situation as an example:

I went -200k the other day while defending the spot I had been at for hours and waiting for a dec to come up. It's w.e, the situation was dealt with and everything is fine. The people that bombed me came to my spot and said "please leave". Naturally I didn't want to leave, and they wouldn't add any additional clear speed to the grind. I was about 7 or so percent from leveling, so I moved over to them - the whole time they've been here I was flagged - and said I had been there for hours.

"well I'm here now. please leave."

After dropping down to 170k karma from 2 kills, we put the dec up and had to defend for 15 minutes. Eventually, and very quickly, I went red.

Now this is where the idea for a fix comes into play. The person I was talking to about karma bombing just now brought it up. What if the longer you were in a grind spot, the less and less karma you would lose on defending said spot?

As a hypothetical, lets say you only lost 1/10th the amount(just an example amount - don't take it as face value) after being there the max amount of time. Instead of dropping down as much as I did(I just did the math on it, 8 PvP kills brought me to -200k), I would of dropped to 248k roughly instead of -220k. I would consistantly be able to kill them/defend the spot while waiting for the dec, and not have to worry about the bombing doing too much damage.

Some grind spots would completely discourage bombing all together(desert spots in particular). The desert could still keep the outlaw debuff as a thing, and this would become an incentive for people to go out more into the desert.. Hmm.. thinking I shouldn't of said that but w.e. Now, before anyone says anything, we thought about the "what about afking in the region" thing. At least with the desert, you have to stay alive. The debuff can and will kill afkers. As for others, potentially make the karma loss buff run out if out of combat for a certain amount of time.. though Idk.. I think it could be abused too.. maybe..

hmm.. perhaps the fact that you'd have to be in the grind region itself would prevent people from wanting to just afk there.. People would get a lot less done production-wise just to grief people at grind spots.. I don't think its smart to do that, but I can see at least some doing it.

If anyone has any additional suggestions, we're open to them. Any additional ideas are welcome.

Edit:

I've posted this on the beta forums as well.
[ Beta post ]

Edited by TRNFloyd
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Posted

I'm pretty sure this'd solve most of the problems people seem to have with the karma system, honestly. It benefits new and old players alike, maybe even encouraging more cooperation between the two at lower-levelled spots like Sausans, while giving newer players a fighting chance to defend their spots without arbitrarily penalising veterans at their own. I like it!

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Posted

On the one hand, it does feel kind of carebare-esk to lower karma loss in any way, shape or form..
But on the other hand, you would have to "earn" the karma loss reduction, which idk..

could be like:

1H = first tier reduction
2H = second tier reduction
3H = final tier reduction

or maybe more, Idk. There would still need to be loss of karma. I've heard whispers and talk of a el dorado patch that will remove karma loss for x-amount of time after the first initial kill - which solves one problem but creates another. It creates people going to grind spots to kill others and not have to worry about karma loss at all. 

I'm just wondering if there's any BIG flaws to the idea.

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Posted (edited)

how many people are playing this game? a shit ton, you might of been at a spot for SO many hours, but there is other people in the game not just you, if everyone were to stay at their spot and never leave for hours there is always going to be other players wanting that spot because they cant find one available or because they're on queue to change channel, reducing the karma lost for being at that spot for a certain amount of time would just be retarded and anyone with the best gear can hold a spot forever, not to mention you're the douche killing people and the one flagged. I honestly find karma bombing a good thing, someone wants to be a douche and just kill people who come to the spot they're at then so be it, get karma bombed!! you're not the only person in the game, either ask if they want to party with you, if they don't respond or don't leave then change channel, and if you decided to kill them instead of changing channel or asking if they want to party then you deserved it, and it's not "YOUR" spot, it belongs to everybody.

Edited by Excisionex
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Posted

Everyone who makes these threads about "karma bombing" says the same thing.

That you were forced to flag up and kill everyone in your spot, and now that you went negative you can't deal. If you're willing to flag then deal with the consequences of losing karma tbh. If you don't then wait for the dec to come up and/or outgrind them, or just switch channels/go to a different spot.

The current karma system is working fine, the penalties are harsh because they want you to think before you go around killing everyone.

Like @Excisionex said, this will just allow overgeared players to stay at spots pking longer than they already do. It's already bad enough that geared people still farm Sausans/Pirates rather than going to Valencia, but seeing as theres no real incentive to grind there i don't blame the players, but still.

They really should just make no karma loss channels for the hardcore pvp/pkers so there won't be 100 threads a day about ways to 'revamp' the karma system now.

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Posted

Everyone who makes these threads about "karma bombing" says the same thing.

That you were forced to flag up and kill everyone in your spot, and now that you went negative you can't deal. If you're willing to flag then deal with the consequences of losing karma tbh. If you don't then wait for the dec to come up and/or outgrind them, or just switch channels/go to a different spot.

The current karma system is working fine, the penalties are harsh because they want you to think before you go around killing everyone.

Like @Excisionex said, this will just allow overgeared players to stay at spots pking longer than they already do. It's already bad enough that geared people still farm Sausans/Pirates rather than going to Valencia, but seeing as theres no real incentive to grind there i don't blame the players, but still.

They really should just make no karma loss channels for the hardcore pvp/pkers so there won't be 100 threads a day about ways to 'revamp' the karma system now.

I was able to deal with it. I did deal with it. It happened last week and I've been back to full karma since the next day. I wasn't forced to flag, I used the flag as a warning and stayed flagged the whole time. I was willing and able to throw down to defend the grind I needed to do. I went negative and I did deal with it afterwards. I was clearly willing to deal with the aftermath as when I went to get my karma back, I had to flag on people to defend the karma grind back to positive.

Over-geared players are always going to own spots, but that should be an incentive to get better gear so you can compete. One of my guildies did just that(was killed while lifeskilling, used that as fuel to get better gear and then went and got his revenge). However, that said, you do at least bring up some valid points. There is indeed very little incentive to grind in Valencia. That and the no karma loss channel would be amazing. At least that way, maybe someone like @Excisionex would maybe actually choose to fight instead of rolling over and letting people take his grind spot. Then again, I doubt he'd grind on a channel like that, but that's besides the point.

Good on you to at least suggest something rather than just chastising an idea without providing any constructive criticism towards fixing an problem that at least 100 threads a day are made about!

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Posted

There's a thread about it somewhere; a new karma-free channel(s) with an exp buff for veteran players. I think having something like that and buffing drops and exp rates in Valencia to spread players out more would really help to solve a lot of the problems regarding karma and pk.

We can only hope it happens though.

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Posted

I've heard that on KR there is a fix for karma bombing  where once you kill someone, they get a debuff or whatever where if you kill them again within 10-15 minutes you don't lose karma for killing the same person.  I think that's a great fix.  Cause if you kill someone trying to take a spot and they come to karma bomb you/try and take the spot back, you don't lose more karma from the same person.  Same with defending a spot.  If they try to take the spot and you defend it, you lose karma for the one kill and if they keep coming at you, you can gain karma while not losing more for a small amount of time. 

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Posted

Lets think differently:

Player A is on spot and grinding in lvl appropriate location and player B with 5lvl+ diff appear and kill you,
with system that you suggest he can reskill you and "kill-bombing" you for 15min without punnishment and force you to leave or change channel...

with current system B can kill A (for example) only 5x (because he dont have full karma) and then leave location to not become "red"

KR system will work only if there are people in lvl appropriate location and "spread" around zones...
Here where lvl60 occupy Helms chase you around location and repeatedly kills you "cuz reasons" is this system unusable

I dont have problem with beeing killed, but killed, not slaughtered with high lvl character becouse game encourage him to go into underleveled locations.

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Posted

I see both sides on this problem. On one hand the ppl dont wont to give up there farming route and on the other ppl want to farm on that spot too. 
And in this game its just not possible to share if u want to level efficient, cause there are not enough mobs and the clearspeed is just to high, if u have good gear.

But the situation could be a lot better, if the ppl with high level and gear would be at spots where everyone has high level and gear. 

The true problem is, that everyone is still hanging around the sausans and pirates, even at level 61. Cause XP and money are best there. 

how to solve that Problem:
just make Valencia better for XP and money. At the moment I get everywhere like 0,001% and it doesnt matter if I kill mediah or valencia mobs. Of course I woul go sausans or pirates, because the clearspeed is much higher there.

If the difference between Valencia and Mediah would be like Calpheon to mediah all would be greate. How often do u see a lev 60 player in Calpheon at Manshas? Never (ogers are a different story ;))
It doesnt benefit thm to go to the low level grind stopts there, because the XP is realy low there.
 

The soluten would be:
Make Valencia a place for more XP and money then all Mediah (and Pirates) Spots.
If the Players level is higher then that of the mob u should almost get no XP anymore.


In the end, the Level 59+ players would be in Valencia and can PvP each othere there (its a fair fight after all) and the players between  ~50+ to 58 would be in Mediah. Of course there would bes still PvP and Karmabombing at spots, but not that hard anymore, because the change that a undergeard lev 56 will get attackt bei a overgeard lev 60+ player will be very low. 


P.S. for all the player that say: Its the spot of all ppl and not just yours and that we could share spots: Imagen if everyone would share spots. Would u be able to grind on sausans anymore, ore any good farmingspot? No! Without the possibility of annoing PKing at the sausans/pirates more ppl would be there and then nobody could grind there anymore. 

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Posted

After talking to someone in-game about this, an idea of how to fix karma bombing came to be.
So, I'll use my most recent situation as an example:

I went -200k the other day while defending the spot I had been at for hours and waiting for a dec to come up. It's w.e, the situation was dealt with and everything is fine. The people that bombed me came to my spot and said "please leave". Naturally I didn't want to leave, and they wouldn't add any additional clear speed to the grind. I was about 7 or so percent from leveling, so I moved over to them - the whole time they've been here I was flagged - and said I had been there for hours.

"well I'm here now. please leave."

After dropping down to 170k karma from 2 kills, we put the dec up and had to defend for 15 minutes. Eventually, and very quickly, I went red.

Now this is where the idea for a fix comes into play. The person I was talking to about karma bombing just now brought it up. What if the longer you were in a grind spot, the less and less karma you would lose on defending said spot?

As a hypothetical, lets say you only lost 1/10th the amount(just an example amount - don't take it as face value) after being there the max amount of time. Instead of dropping down as much as I did(I just did the math on it, 8 PvP kills brought me to -200k), I would of dropped to 248k roughly instead of -220k. I would consistantly be able to kill them/defend the spot while waiting for the dec, and not have to worry about the bombing doing too much damage.

Some grind spots would completely discourage bombing all together(desert spots in particular). The desert could still keep the outlaw debuff as a thing, and this would become an incentive for people to go out more into the desert.. Hmm.. thinking I shouldn't of said that but w.e. Now, before anyone says anything, we thought about the "what about afking in the region" thing. At least with the desert, you have to stay alive. The debuff can and will kill afkers. As for others, potentially make the karma loss buff run out if out of combat for a certain amount of time.. though Idk.. I think it could be abused too.. maybe..

hmm.. perhaps the fact that you'd have to be in the grind region itself would prevent people from wanting to just afk there.. People would get a lot less done production-wise just to grief people at grind spots.. I don't think its smart to do that, but I can see at least some doing it.

If anyone has any additional suggestions, we're open to them. Any additional ideas are welcome.

Edit:

I've posted this on the beta forums as well.
[ Beta post ]

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/127031-suggestion-solution-to-karmabombing/

;)

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