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Valencia Housing vs 14K vs Non-Pearl-Interior

83 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Thread took an interesting turn for the better. Also appreciate seeing some different opinions on the matter

Cash shop players have an advantage with houses and it's easier for them to get points, however the silver you can make for the price you have to pay is rather negligible. As it stands you can get 1,785 points for the price of $25 and in order to get the top ranking in most houses you'll need around 10,000 points minimum so you're looking at spending around $100 really. In turn you get access to a system that is sporadic in payouts and will net you on average 12 million silver a day. It's useful and nice to have this bonus silver, but I wouldn't say it's P2W until there's a way to buy enchanting materials like stones and shards through a vendor.

I'm sitting on around 9 billion silver at the moment and there's no real way to convert this into better gear that isn't limited by materials or RNG. If there was a way to directly convert silver into AP/DP then I could agree that housing is P2W, but as there isn't it's really just an ego thing. I've got a rank 1 house in Calpheon and the only reason I have it is for the ego boost in game, the actual node investments are rather useless.

You make a good point here. I guess it depends how far in progression a person is as to if this would "significantly" impact them.

yeah, but no amount of silver in the game will buy any of us a Courser(Steed) T6, let alone a t7 or t8

Lol you sure are stuck on horses.

I can respect this, and agree with it, but I suppose I place disconnects between things that are negligible and the overall game?

Housing ranks are P2W, BDO is not because housing is - as you said - really just a bonus source of income. It'd be like if they added a new, negligible grind spot somewhere in the game that you personally didn't think was nice to look at, wasn't great for exp or money or gathering, no real reason to want to go there except to just go there - but it costs $25 to get in. That zone is inarguably behind a paywall, no matter how useless of a zone it may be to some, but it can absolutely be argued that because it's negligible it doesn't make BDO behind a paywall. Similarly, you can experience the entirety of the game and probably not feel the loss of not having a rank 1 house, but that doesn't mean that people with credit cards can't overtake non-pearl spenders in the rankings. If there wasn't an official ranking system with a first place and prize at the end...I would entirely agree that housing is just another pearl shop vanity item. There're other complexities to consider, but myself and Freeway have both said them already in other posts.

I bought a set of furniture in the pearl store and have a rank 1 house, I don't even bother with the investment bank. But I know I took rank 1 from the guy beneath me with my pearl items. Wasn't even trying to really, I was just decorating.

I am, however, curious about the part of your quote I've bolded. Why would them being sold by a vendor have any sway on your opinion of that? 

This makes a lot of sense to me as well. And i guess you can say that is kind of how i view it. I lean more toward it being p2w than not. And like plunge said it's not significant. But.. If you add it together with all of your workers already farming things that can be sold for liquid $,passive node work timbering etc. everything adds up together. So in a way i can lean either way on this and have trouble pin pointing my own opinion on it. I guess i will have to crunch some numbers on how long it would take all of my 500 energy alts to roll night vendor for hards/sharps using silver but only a baseline average r1 housing would give me with investment and a few other ideas and come back with hard data or just concede my own opinion. Given me a few things to think about.

Edited by Freeway
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Posted

Pretty much convenience.

If you go by the original definition of p2w, (simply) paywall to win at PvP, then none of this even matters. Does rank 1 housing add more content? Not really. Does it give you more money? Sure. Can you progress faster with the money? Possibly. Are you winning at PvP? With faster progression, "possibly."

I personally view convenience as "partially" winning since convenience saves time to do other stuff, whether it be to make more money or do real life stuff.

p2w -> ability to gain "considerable" advantage over other players who dont pay. At no time ever was p2w considered to be only relevant for pvp, thats just nonsense. If theres an mmo where top guilds are competing against each other over the server first boss kills, and one guild bought a shitton of p2w buffs or better gear to be the first, they payed to win, theres no pvp involved here. Besides, the first definitions of p2w came from chinafarmers and gold-/gearsellers which only sold you things that could be gained ingame as well legitimately without paying, long before developers starting to include p2w in their own games.

paywall -> "usually" only in f2p games, when certain areas, mechanics, gameplay aspects are completely unreachable or unplayable unless you "unlock" them with cash, or in any other way have to pay a lot of money to just be able to do it, this can be direct as in only the first few levels of a game are playable for free, after that you have to unlock and buy each new expansion, dlc, map or whatever. Or it can be indirect because the difficulty rises way too high so you wouldnt be able to compete or survive in new content without paying for character or gear upgrades.

?? "full p2w" ?? -> "The white-knighting and justifying definition of p2w": BiS gear available directly or indirectly but most importantly ONLY through a cashhop. Please show me just one single decent game (decent! not some cheap produced shitty mobile app that cant even be considered a game, or a 12 year old asian mmo that for some weird reason is still running without updates) where this is actually the case, and then i might consider this definition.

yeah, but no amount of silver in the game will buy any of us a Courser(Steed) T6, let alone a t7 or t8

no, but there are certain items in the cashshop which can help you heavily with that ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Posted (edited)

no pay no win, its BDO

Edited by woots

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Posted

I am, however, curious about the part of your quote I've bolded. Why would them being sold by a vendor have any sway on your opinion of that? 

The main advantage cash shop players have over free user is they can earn more silver, more silver does mean more enchant attempts but ONLY if they have access to stones/shards. At the moment it doesn't matter if the cash shop player has billions of silver more because they are dealing with the same RNG for gathering sharps and have access to the same resource on the market. They are more likely to get sharps/stones because they can place a higher pre-order, but they're also competing with rich free users and other cash shop players. If you could suddenly buy sharps/stones from a vendor it makes them a limitless resource which means the only thing governing how many enchants you can make is your silver meaning all these small advantages the cash shop user has (AM, horse resets, rank 1 houses etc..) suddenly aren't negligible any more because they can be directly converted into an almost limitless supply of enchant attempts. 

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p2w -> ability to gain "considerable" advantage over other players who dont pay. At no time ever was p2w considered to be only relevant for pvp, thats just nonsense. If theres an mmo where top guilds are competing against each other over the server first boss kills, and one guild bought a shitton of p2w buffs or better gear to be the first, they payed to win, theres no pvp involved here. Besides, the first definitions of p2w came from chinafarmers and gold-/gearsellers which only sold you things that could be gained ingame as well legitimately without paying, long before developers starting to include p2w in their own games.

paywall -> "usually" only in f2p games, when certain areas, mechanics, gameplay aspects are completely unreachable or unplayable unless you "unlock" them with cash, or in any other way have to pay a lot of money to just be able to do it, this can be direct as in only the first few levels of a game are playable for free, after that you have to unlock and buy each new expansion, dlc, map or whatever. Or it can be indirect because the difficulty rises way too high so you wouldnt be able to compete or survive in new content without paying for character or gear upgrades.

?? "full p2w" ?? -> "The white-knighting and justifying definition of p2w": BiS gear available directly or indirectly but most importantly ONLY through a cashhop. Please show me just one single decent game (decent! not some cheap produced shitty mobile app that cant even be considered a game, or a 12 year old asian mmo that for some weird reason is still running without updates) where this is actually the case, and then i might consider this definition.

no, but there are certain items in the cashshop which can help you heavily with that ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

P2W simply if there is a paywall. a HUGE gap in power between f2p and p2w. OFCOURSE p2w will have a "considerable" advantage. They are supporting the game and helping it stay in business, so why shouldn't they get benefits?

Reading your thread you clearly haven't played a game with an obvious paywall. I played a game by Square Enix and they have obvious paywall system and I was on that winning site. It was so unbalanced that a group of p2w users grouped up to help f2p users pass certain levels/bosses on a weekly basis.

If BDO offered pearl item such as a T8 or Tri gears, then yes, that would certainly be a true p2w. But every player in here have to go through all the sets of quests and item gathering etc to accomplish tasks. For example, I want to craft Balenos rods but I still need to do all the gathering and processing level up to unlock the skill and then start crafting. You don't see a shop item that COMPLETELY bypass all that.

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Posted

@Escapism, my actual intention was to mock some other players who keep pressing their definition while making others seem like they're crazy.

The term p2w typically applied to f2p games. There are some people that have high expectations for f2p games even though it's "free", and when there's that paywall to even get further in the game or compete with paying players, some f2pers complain and flee. It's only natural that some have more tolerance for these type of things, as some don't mind some p2w aspects in a game.

BDO NA/EU are supposedly B2P, but it's based entirely off of KR f2p. So, obviously if you consider BDO KR p2w, players are going to be scared, like what happened last year.

I agree with @BakaNeko for the most part.

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If BDO offered pearl item such as a T8 or Tri gears, then yes, that would certainly be a true p2w.

not according to the definitions of many people here who keep denying that there is p2w in bdo, because you could still obtain the same by just playing. Many people seriously justify it with that, i could quote other users here who literally stated "it would only be p2w if you could buy +21 gear in the shop".

a game isnt just p2w or not by default, every modern game, or atleast every f2p designed game needs it to some aspect, and as i have stated several times in other threads about this, its about how much p2w is in a game, and if it can be still be tolerated or not for the largest parts of the playerbase.

In the case of housing and pearl furniture here its clearly over the top, atleast in my opinion. Mostly because there is pretty much no end to it, even if multiple heavy p2w users would compete over the same house #1 rank, its not like they both just buy 2-3 items to increase their points above every non-paying user and then have to compete against each other with non-cash items, they can just keep buying and buying and buying to increase their points more and more. This is the worst form of p2w imho, its much worse than if you could just buy endgame bis gear one time but then atleast have that gear forever (unless it could break or new better gear would be released).

The actual reward of it, if there is any at all, doesn't matter at this point, its all personal goals. One doesn't need endgame bis gear either if he doesnt care for pvp, but just because he doesnt care for it, so its not p2 "win" for him, doesnt mean its not p2w for others.

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Well, I personally believe the whole point system for housing is ridiculous pointless. From what I gather from a streamer, the investment node is not really worth it so I like to think people spending pearls on house item is simply to enjoy the game.

If I was not a broke a** man, I would definitely buy house pearl item constantly just because it looks good, not because of the points.

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