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Confirmed Kuno and Ninja THE WEAKEST!!

86 posts in this topic

Posted

an average taken from each population...

excuse me but what does that mean exactly? an average of what

Let me help you... What was that graphic showing?

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Posted (edited)

an average taken from each population...

excuse me but what does that mean exactly? an average of what

KDA ratios..? Do you know what it means to average a set of numbers out..? Here, I'll explain. To get the mean or average for kda, you do it like this: You add up all the kills for the class, then divide it by the number of players. Same for deaths and assists. How the ratio works is it's K:D:A or in this case for Ninja, 0.8:1:1. So for every 0.8 players they killed, the Ninja class died once and assisted on player in killing another.

Edited by Xenon

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Posted

kda ratios? are you 100% sure it's kda ratios or is it just because someone put kda with paint next to the graphic? Cause I don't see why dk would be first at ratio as it comletely suck without its awakening lmao

anyway if it does show the kda, my statement stays the same, ppl complain that ninjas and kunos are shit because they don't know how to play them and cry when they go full rush when they are classes not meant to be played like that. so l2p your class instead of whining about it in the forums

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Posted (edited)

kda ratios? are you 100% sure it's kda ratios or is it just because someone put kda with paint next to the graphic? Cause I don't see why dk would be first at ratio as it comletely suck without its awakening lmao

The graph is over time. The lowest point for DK was before awakening, and when it spikes up, is after awakening. It is KD ratio, as that's the translation according to Dulfy. Someone else threw in A for assists, but it's most likely just kills to deaths.

Edited by Xenon
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Posted

Learn your class and stop QQ pls

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Posted

I'm sure very few people are actually surprised at this point.

Basically.Nothing new

Hmmm, how many times did I say Kuno was objectively the worst class in the game, and people just told me I wasn't good enough.   Hmmmmmm HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

maybe if this game was perfectly balanced.then yea get good.but that's not the case. skiill only takes you so far over bad balancing 

 

 

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Posted

The graph is over time. The lowest point for DK was before awakening, and when it spikes up, is after awakening. It is KD ratio, as that's the translation according to Dulfy. Someone else threw in A for assists, but it's most likely just kills to deaths.

yeah it's taken from the kr version ofc sry about that. but anyway refer to what i said before

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Posted

What is KDA?

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Posted

What is KDA?

Kill - Death - Assist

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Posted

People who are arguing about a translated digest...Sigh.

PLZ. At least watch the bad ergish stream. The recording is out.

He mentions a lot of it has to do with high AP, and also wizards are slightly skewed due to its light population.

To that end they will be focusing gathering better data from the arena and rbf as sources.

But overall the data gathered gives them a picture of their ultimate goal.

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Posted (edited)

yeah it's taken from the kr version ofc sry about that. but anyway refer to what i said before

Again, the graph is taken over time. It's plotted over an unspecified period of time.

 

  • We are aware that some classes are stronger than others
  • They are showing a chart of Kills/Deaths ratios for each class over time. Some class’s K/D ratio raise as soon as they are awakened.
  • Dark Knight/Wizard/Witch have the highest K/D ratios compared to other classes after awakening.
  • Class balance for each class is different as soon as their awakening happened.
  • Class balance will be corrected through constant patching rather than one big patch.
  • Among top 200 AP players, 50 are Dark Knight, 43 are Ranger, 2 are Tamer and just 1 is Kunoichi.
  • Among top 200 DP players, 55 are Witch, 27 are Berserkers, 5 are Musa and 3 for Kunoichi.
  • We are looking to make weaker classes better rather than fixing the stronger classes. This is why it takes more time to fix balance.

Some more interesting info. Get ready to deal with the broken bs for a long time.

Edited by Xenon
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Posted

Again, the graph is taken over time. It's plotted over an unspecified period of time.

 

  • We are aware that some classes are stronger than others
  • They are showing a chart of Kills/Deaths ratios for each class over time. Some class’s K/D ratio raise as soon as they are awakened.
  • Dark Knight/Wizard/Witch have the highest K/D ratios compared to other classes after awakening.
  • Class balance for each class is different as soon as their awakening happened.
  • Class balance will be corrected through constant patching rather than one big patch.
  • Among top 200 AP players, 50 are Dark Knight, 43 are Ranger, 2 are Tamer and just 1 is Kunoichi.
  • Among top 200 DP players, 55 are Witch, 27 are Berserkers, 5 are Musa and 3 for Kunoichi.
  • We are looking to make weaker classes better rather than fixing the stronger classes. This is why it takes more time to fix balance.

Some more interesting info. Get ready to deal with the broken bs for a long time.

yeah so why this topic about how kuno and ninjas are the worst classes confirmed and why did you like the topic then?

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Posted

yeah so why this topic about how kuno and ninjas are the worst classes confirmed and why did you like the topic then?

I assume you're referring to the statistics I just listed. What that means are the 200 highest ap players on the KR server are this, same for DP.

If not, then what the hell do you mean by that? According to the fricking graph, which you apparently can't read, Kuno is the worst performing class in pvp followed by Ninja at this time. In fact, over time, Kuno is the worst class in the game. They bottomed out lower than DK did, and it was a time after their release.

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Posted

:focepalm:

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Posted (edited)

Again, the graph is taken over time. It's plotted over an unspecified period of time.

 

  • We are aware that some classes are stronger than others
  • They are showing a chart of Kills/Deaths ratios for each class over time. Some class’s K/D ratio raise as soon as they are awakened.
  • Dark Knight/Wizard/Witch have the highest K/D ratios compared to other classes after awakening.
  • Class balance for each class is different as soon as their awakening happened.
  • Class balance will be corrected through constant patching rather than one big patch.
  • Among top 200 AP players, 50 are Dark Knight, 43 are Ranger, 2 are Tamer and just 1 is Kunoichi.
  • Among top 200 DP players, 55 are Witch, 27 are Berserkers, 5 are Musa and 3 for Kunoichi.
  • We are looking to make weaker classes better rather than fixing the stronger classes. This is why it takes more time to fix balance.

Some more interesting info. Get ready to deal with the broken bs for a long time.


They spoke about a real class balance there is some months ago ( way before the DK annoncement ) and they said they would do that once "all awakening were out" ( => once witch / wiz awakening release )

And so far, the balance is still a good crap.

 

So its cool to "regulary" see them saying they are "going to do something" but at some point, it would be better to have real action... because for now, nothing have changed.

Edited by woots
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Posted

They spoke about a real class balance there is some months ago ( way before the DK annoncement ) and they said they would do that once "all awakening were out" ( => once witch / wiz awakening release )

And so far, the balance is still a good crap.

 

So its cool to see them saying they are "going to do something" but at some point, it would be better to have real action... because for now, nothing have changed.

actually their data, undefined as it is they are doing an effective job. Where's your data?

The lines show a convergence of most of the classes after awakening and a timeline given weekly patches shows an increasing closer line for a majority of classes.

We have 3 OP classes, on of them is new. We have one slightly weak class(which btw was buffed this week)

The rest of the classes are bouncing pretty close, and flutactions are natural as players are human.

 

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Posted

I assume you're referring to the statistics I just listed. What that means are the 200 highest ap players on the KR server are this, same for DP.

If not, then what the hell do you mean by that? According to the fricking graph, which you apparently can't read, Kuno is the worst performing class in pvp followed by Ninja at this time. In fact, over time, Kuno is the worst class in the game. They bottomed out lower than DK did, and it was a time after their release.

I wouldnt call them strongest... Its with highet AP/DP... Flat stat... So highest base gear... People can be stacking accuracy, have hidden ap/bonuses etc...  And it mostly reflects farming speed of binary classes... Hybrid evasion/AP wizards still have better clearspeed, survivability and even dmg in PvP than mentioned classes just bcs of their balance state... So its just KD-ratio and GS-class... Neither reflects directly into class power, but together it can show which class benefits from which part of GS... Popularity is another thing... Healing and defending not only yourself but also party members... Mobility... Not everything can be reflected just by those... But when looking at all, you can kind of grasp how strong class is...

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Posted

High KDR is a sign of a powerful class and/or skilled player, low kdr is a sign of a weak class and/or bad players. These numbers are obviously averaged out, so it would take into account players of all skill levels.

How are they averaged out if the worse players quit tamer by default and go play witch/wiz/warrior/ranger??????????

Over time, the weakest players of the class just end up rerolling. Also averaged out of what exactly? Active players from last month? Players from the start of the game? how when where

 

you don't know shit, don't pretend that you do

 

What does that make you, bub? I think you're insulting yourself here more than anything else, including your effort to prove some deluded point that Tamer is the worst class in the game. You still play the class even though it's apparently complete shit in your eyes. The former is a result of desync, which comes from the terrible netcode ingame and the god-awful servers in both regions. The latter doesn't even come into play because skill %s don't reflect actual pvp damage at all. If it did, you wouldn't have any burst as your modifiers are currently the lowest in the game. Tamer burst is incredible.

I'm playing the class? I barely play the game since january, mostly got active around DK (playing DK) and despite having 9874389379878989 hours in my tamer i still don't wanna play it even tho i still like the concept. I don't wanna play it because it's broken and it doesn't work. You can do block > iframe/sa and it'll work 4 out of 5 times but not 100%. Which is dumb and stupid. I don't care what the reason for that is (be it desync or netcode or what not), fact is that it happens and it's beyond player control and they should adjust their game accordingly.

 

And stop saying "tamer burst is incredible" 

YOU DO NOT PLAY TAMER. 

Tamer is literally one of the worst burst classes because the main damage skill, "ALLROUND SPINNER" has 2 second animation channel and under 6000% skill power, how the hell is that a good burst class? Literally every other class in the game can do damage faster

 

My unawakened DK can kill people from CC faster than my tamer does simply because wheel of fortune (dk' non awakened skill) has more power than the strongest awakened tamer skill and also casts 2 times faster and applies more of its hits as air attacks (since it's faster) unlike tamer.  Every class i can think of has skills that apply huge pvp damage much faster than tamer does.

 

but what can i expect from a guy with pri /blue gear that hasn't even experienced the game completely

come back to me when ur 61, 20-30k+ rbf score, at least full tet gear, then at least i'll see that you've forced yourself to experience the game. You'll learn more than you think

 

also stop talking to me, stop quoting me, stop stalking me in this forum, i'm quite tired of your bs and misinformation spam 

 

what i'll admit is that tamer is really good at killing undergeared / noobs/ scrubs. You need just 4 sec cd (moonlight +vermillion) and they usually don't react to it either so it's pretty free kills which makes it easy to farm newer players than it is for some other classes. Yeah. Another way to rig the statistic, taking Kdas without factoring in the people participating in the pvp and their skill (on both sides, allies as well as enemies) 

 

currently tamer is crap, i've given up awhile ago and i do get hopeful from time to time and try to play my tamer but every time i do im faced with the harsh reality which is that the class is broken and it's skills simply don't work. It doesn't matter what statistics say, it doesn't matter what random people with blue gear on the forum say, it doesn't matter what anyone says - the fact is that tamer is fully/pure melee class that's always in the heat of action which means its faced with the most skills thrown which means you' have to deal with more people which means more chance for someone to desync and cc you mid sa/iframe

 

in a 10v10 scenario, when a tamer rushes it's likely that 7-8 people will throw attacks towards it and even if the tamer is good enough to iframe/SA all of these that's still 8x chance to get hit by a guy who sees the game 0.5 sec in the past and cc you in SA, and that combined with tamer's shitty design of partial/ inferior SA abilities and also lowest DR in the game and no passives just makes it a complete trainwreck

now if you were a ranger (even awakened) or DK, your skills would be medium range and when you approach the 10v10 scenario, instead of having 7-8 people be able to throw skills at you, you'd only have 3-4, which is literally 2 times less. Tamer is fully and completely melee and even ranger's awakened skills are medium range in comparison.

plus most other classes have properly designed abilities so they're much harder to hit mid sa/iframe 

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Posted

The good news is... we can only go up from here. (Kuno/Ninja) so that means, more buffs incoming.

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Posted

CLASS.thumb.png.bd702009d6cd055a2cb4565c

yea dk makes more dmg than witch/wizard. That fail logic.......

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Posted

yea dk makes more dmg than witch/wizard. That fail logic.......

Another one which missed most of elementary school? Its KR kill-death ratio chart for all available awakened classes... You have it explained in every other post and even in that graphic you quoted...

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yea dk makes more dmg than witch/wizard. That fail logic.......

The graph is based on a kill:death ratio of each class and not based on damage.

Timeline is from the first week of June 2016 to the second week of April 2017.

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Posted

I wouldnt call them strongest... Its with highet AP/DP... Flat stat... So highest base gear... People can be stacking accuracy, have hidden ap/bonuses etc...  And it mostly reflects farming speed of binary classes... Hybrid evasion/AP wizards still have better clearspeed, survivability and even dmg in PvP than mentioned classes just bcs of their balance state... So its just KD-ratio and GS-class... Neither reflects directly into class power, but together it can show which class benefits from which part of GS... Popularity is another thing... Healing and defending not only yourself but also party members... Mobility... Not everything can be reflected just by those... But when looking at all, you can kind of grasp how strong class is...

That's what I said, bub. It's just a list of 200 players with the highest ap, and another with highest dp. There's prolly a lot more metrics that they collected besides just raw killing and staying power amongst the classes, but didn't just show us because they didn't need to, I guess.

How are they averaged out if the worse players quit tamer by default and go play witch/wiz/warrior/ranger??????????
Over time, the weakest players of the class just end up rerolling. Also averaged out of what exactly? Active players from last month? Players from the start of the game? how when where

you don't know shit, don't pretend that you do

Your formatting is still garbage. Stop mashing the enter key after every few sentences. The chart seems to start after warrior/ranger/zerker/sorc awakenings were out, possibly tamer/valk as well. It's definitely not start of the game. As for weakest players exiting a class to reroll: It doesn't matter. Another weaker player could replace him just the same as players of other classes could be even weaker than him. It's also across different periods of time, and there's visible dips and peaks in various spots. They're averaged out the same as they would be either way: Total kills/deaths/assists amongst the entire class population divided by the total number of players.

I could say the same to you.

I'm playing the class? I barely play the game since january, mostly got active around DK (playing DK) and despite having 9874389379878989 hours in my tamer i still don't wanna play it even tho i still like the concept. I don't wanna play it because it's broken and it doesn't work. You can do block > iframe/sa and it'll work 4 out of 5 times but not 100%. Which is dumb and stupid. I don't care what the reason for that is (be it desync or netcode or what not), fact is that it happens and it's beyond player control and they should adjust their game accordingly.

And stop saying "tamer burst is incredible" 

YOU DO NOT PLAY TAMER. 

Hey, something I can agree with you on! They should fix the stupid game because it's so ridiculous to fight people and have them warp around because the game is incapable of keeping up with them! At least your iframes work 4 times out of 5. Ours work maybe 1/5 - 2/5 of the time depending on which one you use. One works 3/5-4/5 of the time. All that aside, if you aren't playing, why are you still here complaining? Move on with your life.

It doesn't matter if I play Tamer or not. I can make observations of its performance from fighting them and watching them fight other people. If I can't make any observations or form an opinion on it because I don't play it, then you don't need to be trying to make this argument cuz you aren't any more entitled to the right either.

Tamer is literally one of the worst burst classes because the main damage skill, "ALLROUND SPINNER" has 2 second animation channel and under 6000% skill power, how the hell is that a good burst class? Literally every other class in the game can do damage faster

My unawakened DK can kill people from CC faster than my tamer does simply because wheel of fortune (dk' non awakened skill) has more power than the strongest awakened tamer skill and also casts 2 times faster and applies more of its hits as air attacks (since it's faster) unlike tamer.  Every class i can think of has skills that apply huge pvp damage much faster than tamer does.

but what can i expect from a guy with pri /blue gear that hasn't even experienced the game completely

come back to me when ur 61, 20-30k+ rbf score, at least full tet gear, then at least i'll see that you've forced yourself to experience the game. You'll learn more than you think

Few things: You have more skills than just All-Around Spinner and they do damage, too. Again, %s aren't an accurate representation of how much damage a skill will do to anybody in pvp. Ninja Drastic Measure at full charge has a higher % than Serpent, yet only does maybe 20% of their health. A Serpent will do upwards of 50-60%+. Damage modifiers for pvp are completely hidden. All we know is how many times the skill hits an enemy, what its crit chance is, and what kind of modifers/cc it gets. Refer back to the last quote - You can't make that argument that other classes do things better because you do not play them.

You're full of it.

Pri/blue gear, huh? It's not full tet, but it will do. If full tet is your way of saying that you've experienced the game, then buddy, I'd hate to refer you to the metrics that show that the majority of the population aren't even above level 56.

b9de082184.jpg

My gear was better than a lot of 60s I've met. I've had more kills in node wars than some of my level 60 guildmates, and less deaths. The only requirement I don't meet is RBF score, and I honestly get my shit pushed in by a lot of the guys in RBF because their gear is even better than mine and it's all they do.

 

also stop talking to me, stop quoting me, stop stalking me in this forum, i'm quite tired of your bs and misinformation spam 

what i'll admit is that tamer is really good at killing undergeared / noobs/ scrubs. You need just 4 sec cd (moonlight +vermillion) and they usually don't react to it either so it's pretty free kills which makes it easy to farm newer players than it is for some other classes. Yeah. Another way to rig the statistic, taking Kdas without factoring in the people participating in the pvp and their skill (on both sides, allies as well as enemies) 

It's hard to ignore you when there isn't a block button on the forums. You're literally in any balance thread I participate in outside of my own class forum. Stop being such an easy target.

Is that how you got 56k rbf score? By farming newer and lesser geared players? You're digging yourself a grave here. They didn't specify what skill range the players are, but there is something called a curve they can even adjust the rate for. They could have pulled separate #s from castle sieges to curve the numbers. Why would they rig the results? You're grasping at straws now.. like you kind of weren't already..

 currently tamer is crap, i've given up awhile ago and i do get hopeful from time to time and try to play my tamer but every time i do im faced with the harsh reality which is that the class is broken and it's skills simply don't work. It doesn't matter what statistics say, it doesn't matter what random people with blue gear on the forum say, it doesn't matter what anyone says - the fact is that tamer is fully/pure melee class that's always in the heat of action which means its faced with the most skills thrown which means you' have to deal with more people which means more chance for someone to desync and cc you mid sa/iframe

in a 10v10 scenario, when a tamer rushes it's likely that 7-8 people will throw attacks towards it and even if the tamer is good enough to iframe/SA all of these that's still 8x chance to get hit by a guy who sees the game 0.5 sec in the past and cc you in SA, and that combined with tamer's shitty design of partial/ inferior SA abilities and also lowest DR in the game and no passives just makes it a complete trainwreck

now if you were a ranger (even awakened) or DK, your skills would be medium range and when you approach the 10v10 scenario, instead of having 7-8 people be able to throw skills at you, you'd only have 3-4, which is literally 2 times less. Tamer is fully and completely melee and even ranger's awakened skills are medium range in comparison.

plus most other classes have properly designed abilities so they're much harder to hit mid sa/iframe 

If the skills didn't work, nobody would play the class. People obviously play the class. I see pvp tamers almost every day. Some good, some bad. Some undergeared. Some monsters with incredible gear. You almost had a point towards the end, then you just lost it into a disconnected rant about desync. Tamers have frontal guard on almost all of their skills with super armor sprinkled in there. You're not going to get blown up just for going in on most classes unless you run straight into a Aqua Jail or something, where frontal guard isn't going to cover your ass from an aoe.

Why is the tamer the only one engaging or taking the brunt in this 10v10 scenario? That doesn't make sense. That's not how desync would work in this case, either. It's not 8x chance. If all of them engage you at the same time and one of them misses because you're in iframe, you'll iframe all of them. This scenario is bad because 8 people aren't going to be all going after 1 tamer at once and throwing all their crap on top of her at once either, unless.. oh, you're in RBF. This makes a lot of sense now. Your whole perception of this game is based around RBF. No wonder you complain so much. The standards you hold to rbf don't hold up outside of it because it's not about how many points you can steal from smashing someone, and not everyone is after it either. Lowest DR is your assumption, though. No math to back it up. There's some merit in the magic damage thing, but not this perceived lowest dr without any backing.

Awakened Ranger is melee range, not medium range.. Jesus Christ. DK is close-range, too, until next patch. Those numbers don't make any more sense in this context than they did before because you're being incredibly broad, and you're reaching without any details. All 10 of those other guys could be Tamers, too, and they all have to get up in the enemy's face to do anything.

All classes are the same to hit mid-SA aside from Musa, Zerker, and Maehwa because they're the only classes with mobile super armor. There are 5 iframe-centric classes in the game at this current time: Sorc, Tamer (post-awakening), DK, Ninja, and Kuno. There are several classes that aren't iframe centric, but have short-duration, spammable short hop and side jump iframes: Zerker, Tamer (pre-awakening), Witch, and Wizard. Guess who has the worst iframe in the game out of this entire group? I'll give you a hint: Ninja and Kuno. All the sidehops work and aren't on CD, though have somewhat short iframes that can be predicted and timed to attack through. Sorc and DK have long animation iframes that last the entire animation. Awakened Tamer has full duration iframes as well, one semi-short juke and a long cloud ride. Ghost Step has no consistency whatsoever, but that could be up to server issues. Ninja Step doesn't work, either. Who knows? Either way, enough whining about my class's issues.

The graph is based on a kill:death ratio of each class and not based on damage.

Timeline is from the first week of June 2016 to the second week of April 2017.

Thank you. The text was too small to translate or make out, so I had trouble figuring out exactly how far back it went.

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This graph is biased du to low kuno/ ninja community compared to others classes. We can not conclude there is a true correlation.

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Posted (edited)

guy with 250 dp talking about bdo balance, this is such a joke i want to cry

 

bet you die in 2 normal skills by any normal active/high end player and you also do no damage while at it. Meanwhile ninjas on eu do 60-80% of 320+ dp people's hp (which are 50%+ tankier than you cus of how stats work) with a single skill (the one where they hit the groun and red stuff appears not charge one) but yes tell me how you know about bdo's pvp 

If the skills didn't work, nobody would play the class. People obviously play the class. I see pvp tamers almost every day. Some good, some bad. Some undergeared. Some monsters with incredible gear.

there are no monster tamers in NA

everyone i've seen so far had absolutely no clue whatsoever how to play the game, also there are no people that play the class. I only see the same few names and i also see how each and every one of them slowly rerolls or quits the game

 

as for your ranger bs, it just shows you're missing the point. The majority of ranger's sword skills are medium range in comparison to tamer and that's what i meant. If you had bothered doing pvp you'd know why i say this, because you can't use frontal block skills as tamer in mass pvp since you're right inside your enemy which means you're gonna get hit in back by someone and these skills are almost not useable unless you're at the very edge of the fight 

i'm not even gonna bother with responding to the rest of your crap 

get 30k rbf score then talk to me, at least then i'll know you've done pvp 

 

your posts reek of clueless and you're just spreading bs on a subject you're not qualified to talk about 

 

that's like having a random average citizen going to a hospital and telling them how to do their job when he has absolutely no clue or experience what he's talking about and he's only seen a few tv shows about it 

 

 

Edited by irrelevant

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