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Bad design Tier 3 Guilds taking Node 1 over Title!

95 posts in this topic

Posted

Seige guilds exist though.  There are crazy strong guilds in this game.  Alliances exist.  No body is entitled to a node.  

The issue doesn't just lie in T1's though. It's on all of them because of the siege guilds dropping. Just because OP said it's for one particular aspect doesn't mean that bringing all related issues into the discussion is the wrong thing to do.

You can still run into them even when they dont have a city and arent doing payouts.  Ran into FML last night.   I am more worried about running into FML/Vertex/Aftershock then running into fractal feeding a node (or barcode when they were doing it).

 

If they put in a working alliance system it might actually help things as well, alot of people fielding 25-35 members who are "too big" for t1s but struggle in t2/t3

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Posted

Just like nobody should be entitled to triple payouts due to greed instead of actually playing the game as it should be played.

Lets be real about this.  If you are maintaining a 100 person roster owning 2 T3 nodes would net you what, 3.5 bil a week?  So if you were to actually pay that all to your guild that is 35 mil per player a week, and if you own a castle on top double that.  If you have a 20 person guild and own 2 T1 nodes a week that would need you 800 mil a week that would net you 40 mil per player.  Lets not pretend that the money is make or break.  

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Posted (edited)

 

You can still run into them even when they dont have a city and arent doing payouts.  Ran into FML last night.   I am more worried about running into FML/Vertex/Aftershock then running into fractal feeding a node (or barcode when they were doing it).

 

If they put in a working alliance system it might actually help things as well, alot of people fielding 25-35 members who are "too big" for t1s but struggle in t2/t3

Wtf "worried about" owpvp lmao.
You may be "scared" of competition but not everyone is. That however is not the issue in a node war.
And the reason a lot of members too big for t1 but struggle on t2 is the exact issue that others have pointed out over and over in this thread.

Edited by haybreee

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Posted

It's not so much that we don't want fights, people just dont want to get face rolled and be bored. T1 payouts are like 9 mill a week if you are lucky, thats an hours worth of grinding and when you add up what I spent that week on war it's probably a net loss.

 

My guild loves a good fight, we always have, we've started getting lucky in our placement the last couple weeks and getting consistent wins in winnable wars which is nice, it's good for guild morale and makes the lowbies feel good. 

 

Not sure how you "fix" the system or even if it actually needs fixing, but I think for most T1 guilds its not about the money, its about the adventure.

 

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Posted (edited)

Wtf "worried about" owpvp lmao.
You may be "scared" of competition but not everyone is. That however is not the issue in a node war.
And the reason a lot of members too big for t1 but struggle on t2 is the exact issue that others have pointed out over and over in this thread.

we are talking about Nodewars... who the hell said we were talking about owpvp?  FML doesn't have a city, they have in the past and likely will again, they took a t2 last night.  Honeybadgers saw FML on the node and didn't even bother to fight.  FML butt pummeled the other two of us on the node in about 40 mins.  Should they not be able to fight on t2s?

Edited by Ironjaw

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Posted

we are talking about Nodewars... who the hell said we were talking about owpvp?  FML doesn't have a city, they have in the past and likely will again, they took a t2 last night.  Honeybadgers saw FML on the node and didn't even bother to fight.  FML butt pummeled the other two of us on the node in about 40 mins.  Should they not be able to fight on t2s?

They should have enough honor not to =P

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Posted

we are talking about Nodewars... who the hell said we were talking about owpvp?  FML doesn't have a city, they have in the past and likely will again, they took a t2 last night.  Honeybadgers saw FML on the node and didn't even bother to fight.  FML butt pummeled the other two of us on the node in about 40 mins.  Should they not be able to fight on t2s?

Don't derail the thread, we're talking about siege guilds circumnavigation of game mechanics. There are restrictions put into the game to prevent these guilds from placing in node wars since the start of the game, and more recently restrictions to prevent them from challenging/owning more than one region.

Currently these mechanics are easily bypassed, either intended or not, its important to bring this to the attention to the CM's this is a frequent occurrence. Bypassing in game mechanics for additional profit is an important issue, action has been taken in the past against players who have abused in game systems for additional gains. While the extra income generated may not be large in some instances, this money is quite literally being taken from other players.

No one is arguing against being forced to fight a guild(s) that are too strong for your own to win, this is purely an issue of bypassing in game limitations for additional gains. If holding a region while getting large sums of money is not enough of a motivation for these players to remain, they could always choose to join a guild that does node wars 6 days a week.

TL:DR kids that get their cake and eat it, shouldn't be able to eat another kids cake too.

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Posted

Don't derail the thread, we're talking about siege guilds circumnavigation of game mechanics. There are restrictions put into the game to prevent these guilds from placing in node wars since the start of the game, and more recently restrictions to prevent them from challenging/owning more than one region.

Currently these mechanics are easily bypassed, either intended or not, its important to bring this to the attention to the CM's this is a frequent occurrence. Bypassing in game mechanics for additional profit is an important issue, action has been taken in the past against players who have abused in game systems for additional gains. While the extra income generated may not be large in some instances, this money is quite literally being taken from other players.

No one is arguing against being forced to fight a guild(s) that are too strong for your own to win, this is purely an issue of bypassing in game limitations for additional gains. If holding a region while getting large sums of money is not enough of a motivation for these players to remain, they could always choose to join a guild that does node wars 6 days a week.

TL:DR Fat kids that get their cake and eat it, shouldn't be able to eat another kids cake too.

How much does this actually affect you?  You are referring to 5 guilds maximum.  There is roughly 150 nodes in the game.  How much does this actually affect you?

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Posted

I understand this is a controversial topic, but ya gotta pump those breaks folks and bring this one back into line. No one is forcing you to agree with the opposing view points but the forums do require you to discuss things in a civil manner.

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Posted (edited)

I understand this is a controversial topic, but ya gotta pump those breaks folks and bring this one back into line. No one is forcing you to agree with the opposing view points but the forums do require you to discuss things in a civil manner.

Is KaoKao / Pearl Abyss aware of the situation (and hopefully working on a solution)?

Edited by JRoc
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Posted (edited)

How much does this actually affect you?  You are referring to 5 guilds maximum.  There is roughly 150 nodes in the game.  How much does this actually affect you?

You don't even participate in anything relevant to this discussion. The requested change has no impact on you or your guild, why do you defend them? This change will be a positive for those of us affected and have no impact on the rest of you. 

It's not so much that we don't want fights, people just dont want to get face rolled and be bored. T1 payouts are like 9 mill a week if you are lucky, thats an hours worth of grinding and when you add up what I spent that week on war it's probably a net loss.

 

My guild loves a good fight, we always have, we've started getting lucky in our placement the last couple weeks and getting consistent wins in winnable wars which is nice, it's good for guild morale and makes the lowbies feel good. 

 

Not sure how you "fix" the system or even if it actually needs fixing, but I think for most T1 guilds its not about the money, its about the adventure.

 

If you're going to participate in this discussion please don't come in here and spread lies like we don't know any better. T1 payouts are 9mil if you're lucky? The fact that you would even come in here and lie so blatantly is disgusting. Most T1 guilds want to win and if they lose they don't want to lose to overgeared, overleveld players ruining their experience. The fix we're proposing is a super simple one. Just lock them out of their siege guild long enough that the impact they have on node wars is severely limited. 

 

Edited by Final_Boss
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Posted

Is KaoKao / Pearl Abyss aware of the situation (and hopefully working on a solution)?

They've been informed of the concerns presented by the main arguments present in this and the few other similar threads that have popped up. Nothing more to share beyond that at the moment.

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Posted

You don't even participate in anything relevant to this discussion. The requested change has no impact on you or your guild, why do you defend them? This change will be a positive for those of us affected and have no impact on the rest of you. 

If you're going to participate in this discussion please don't come in here and spread lies like we don't know any better. T1 payouts are 9mil if you're lucky? The fact that you would even come in here and lie so blatantly is disgusting. Most T1 guilds want to win and if they lose they don't want to lose to overgeared, overleveld players ruining their experience. The fix we're proposing is a super simple one. Just lock them out of their siege guild long enough that the impact they have on node wars is severely limited. 

 

A little more deduction on your part perhaps? 

 

A 55 person guild with a level 2 payout and a billion in guild funds is like 9 mill. 

 

Maybe don't be so snarky next time before clarification princess. 

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Posted

You don't even participate in anything relevant to this discussion. The requested change has no impact on you or your guild, why do you defend them? This change will be a positive for those of us affected and have no impact on the rest of you.

There are 5 guilds a week that would be affected by any change.  Your 7 day lockout could easily be exploited as well.  Say there is a 100 person guild, but 10 people in guild2 and 90 in guild1.  Guild1 wins the region but gives the region to Guild 2.  Guild1 is able to node war all week, setting up there allies and collecting 2 t3 payouts.  Guild2 is constantly building up a stock pile of resources, lets say this happens for a month.  Guild1 is drained of funds, players return to Guild2 and wait a week, now they go back to nodewars, secure 4 t3s, claim there land back, now give the territory to Guild 1 for the remaining of the month, while the main group continues to node war through the week.  

In the end it doesn't matter.  Guilds who like to node war will find a way to node war.  When you can explain to me how the current system has any effect on you, except for "I lost to a guild that is stronger then me" I would gladly listen.  But when you start forcing additional restrictions on guilds and node war eligibility just because one or two guilds are using all of the games mechanics to their benefit, we start entering a slippery slope.  

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Posted

Don't derail the thread, we're talking about siege guilds circumnavigation of game mechanics. There are restrictions put into the game to prevent these guilds from placing in node wars since the start of the game, and more recently restrictions to prevent them from challenging/owning more than one region.

Currently these mechanics are easily bypassed, either intended or not, its important to bring this to the attention to the CM's this is a frequent occurrence. Bypassing in game mechanics for additional profit is an important issue, action has been taken in the past against players who have abused in game systems for additional gains. While the extra income generated may not be large in some instances, this money is quite literally being taken from other players.

No one is arguing against being forced to fight a guild(s) that are too strong for your own to win, this is purely an issue of bypassing in game limitations for additional gains. If holding a region while getting large sums of money is not enough of a motivation for these players to remain, they could always choose to join a guild that does node wars 6 days a week.

TL:DR kids that get their cake and eat it, shouldn't be able to eat another kids cake too.

They drop guild in KR and do the same thing........

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Posted

The core issue that I'm seeing is, people are freaking pussies.

People don't like losing, so they're afraid to fight as the underdog, and so they all Zerg and join a big guild and then avoid the other big guilds.

It happens in every game.

That's why I recruit people that are likeminded to our guild for No Mercy. Yeah we're fighting on T1 with an average of 13 people vs 25-40+, and we lose quite a bit. But we fight and keep fighting every night until we win two nodes per week.

Win or lose, we're having fun fighting zergs outnumbered and we refuse to change that. 

If T1 becomes too easy when our numbers grow, we will move to T2, and fight larger more geared guilds there. I'd rather lose and have an intense fight, than Zerg down a node with numbers.

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Because it's only so natural for these siege players to do what they are doing (abusing and bad impression on new/casual players) because end game items are not fully achieved yet (full PEN); I hope we get a fix to this soon.  Again, easily a 4 day ban from joining and rejoining any guild would be the best first start.

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They've been informed of the concerns presented by the main arguments present in this and the few other similar threads that have popped up. Nothing more to share beyond that at the moment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in KR version, they have long stopped this by putting a 3 day CD from war participation on new members that join a guild.

This was exactly done from people moving around between seige guilds and node guilds. (Though I think the original reason in KR  was that people were stacking the best seige fighters to win a castle)

All western versions are doing is piggybacking what was exploited in other versions. Though with slight tweaks.

This is nothing new, and was abused way back in the early days of seige guild.

It was an unwritten drama with seige guilds having:

-weekend seige fighters (people with strong gear from other guilds being merc in and out to seige guilds)

-Dodging dec and life skilling take over (people jumping to shell guilds, or guildless to avoid GvG)

- piggybank guilds (guilds made to just get drain the funds, because people just ninja drop uncontested nodes back then)

Basically, the reality of BDO was "always this evil and greedy", Just that now, people are getting greedier due to higher node payouts, so it's more public.

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Posted

Because it's only so natural for these siege players to do what they are doing (abusing and bad impression on new/casual players) because end game items are not fully achieved yet (full PEN); I hope we get a fix to this soon.  Again, easily a 4 day ban from joining and rejoining any guild would be the best first start.

Easier fix, guilds with less than 90 members can't do nodes then the QQ'ing stops.

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Posted

The core issue that I'm seeing is, people are freaking pussies.

People don't like losing, so they're afraid to fight as the underdog, and so they all Zerg and join a big guild and then avoid the other big guilds.

It happens in every game.

That's why I recruit people that are likeminded to our guild for No Mercy. Yeah we're fighting on T1 with an average of 13 people vs 25-40+, and we lose quite a bit. But we fight and keep fighting every night until we win two nodes per week.

Win or lose, we're having fun fighting zergs outnumbered and we refuse to change that. 

If T1 becomes too easy when our numbers grow, we will move to T2, and fight larger more geared guilds there. I'd rather lose and have an intense fight, than Zerg down a node with numbers.

I also feel this way but also see a problem when seeing top guilds taking tier 1 nodes when they could easily field numbers/gear for tier 2-3 (Iconic on Abadoned Land just as an example)

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