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Why Karma bombing is a good thing.

114 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Im sensing that this person is either

A. level 55 at sausans who keeps going on others claimed rotations and getting -----ed up cuz hes dumb

B. Someone whos never grinded and only life skilled and doesnt get the way things work. (You OWN a rotation when you claim it, as long as you can fight to enter it)

Karma bombers are easy to deal with if theyre in a guild. Just war dec them.

You step on my rotation and you dont leave when you're told ill either get on my negative alt and camp you or war dec you if you're in a guild.

Karma bombers are self entitled pricks who cant hold a rotation cuz they dont have friends.

Edited by Josh2
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Posted

Im sensing that this person is either

A. level 55 at sausans who keeps going on others claimed rotations and getting -----ed up cuz hes dumb

B. Someone whos never grinded and only life skilled and doesnt get the way things work. (You OWN a rotation when you claim it, as long as you can fight to enter it)

Karma bombers are easy to deal with if theyre in a guild. Just war dec them.

You step on my rotation and you dont leave when you're told ill either get on my negative alt and camp you or war dec you if you're in a guild.

Karma bombers are self entitled pricks who cant hold a rotation cuz they dont have friends.

I'm sensing you haven't read any of this thread or were unable to interpret it if you came to that conclusion.

To me your comment seems to be almost entirely irrelevant to the ongoing conversation.

-----------

I believe when we are talking about karma bombing there are several very different cases. The original karma bombing / griefing is when a player intentionally distrupts someone else's grinding with the sole purpose of causing chaos. In this scenario the karma bomber does not want to grind. He does not want to pvp. He wants to make the other person's playtime miserable.

The issue with the current karma system is that there is absolutely no defense mechanism against this. If you are grinding peacefully and someone comes up to you with the intention to grind there, you can talk it out, fight it out, part up, etc.[ And yes what you were saying is very valid - I believe no one is entitled to a spot. Darwinism / first time - first served, newbie priority - these are all excuses we make up that serves our own agenda. ] However when someone's only intention is to ruin your game experience, you are helpless. You can switch channels, stop grinding or go negative.

Karma bombers / Griefers do not suffer any consequence (negative karma is absolutely no issue either but thats another topic), so other than boredom there is nothing to stop them. And that obviously upset people and started this downward spiral.

Well-geared elite players killing random people on sight without saying "hi", in the name of 'effective grinding' and expecting everyone else to respect their absolute superiority and not to come back is utter bullshit. I 100% agree that they are not entitled to a spot because they were there first, or because they are stronger or because they have more pets than you do or for whatever reason. 

Obviously grind rotations are constructed in a way for them to be effective if they are done by organized groups / individuals. So if there are 2 people at one spot, some way or another they have to decide who takes it. An agreement would be the most beneficial way - I take spot now, you take it in 30 mins and so on - but this would require everyone's cooperation which is simply impossible given how many different folks are playing this game. Another option is to fight for the spot. In that case the stronger will always win. Or so did back then when dying in pvp meant -exp. Now that's not the case.

Many people do not like that the current system doesn't allow the "stronger" to actually "win", but forces mutual agreement. I personally always preferred the diplomatic approach - however I can understand that it is not always possible to be diplomatic. 

TL;DR:
Karma system is crap, deciding over grindspots is purely based on agreement which is not always possible to reach with so many people. Straight off Karma BOMBING and coming back after dying is not the same thing. Self-absored entitled douches should not cry after they mistreat people and these people resort to the only weapon they have against them within the game - karma bombing.

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Posted (edited)

I will venture back into this. Most of the people who keep coming back over and over to die so they get the spot are there for the sole purpose of creating chaos so they get their way. They don't suffer at all in that scenario. Now let me tell you a great example. A BDO streamer from Uno who likes to use viewbots (I want to say his name but don't want to promote him) decided to make his stream title about "Griefing xxx Till They're All Negative". His whole purpose, as he even said on his stream, was to grief my guild till we went negative because A) he thought it was funny and B) because he wanted the rotation. Now this was back during last summer so Sausans was still a hot spot. There were 8 of us there, 2 groups doing the two main rotations. Said streamer comes in, starts killing the main mob group over and over till we flag. Now why not dec on this person? Oh because he was guildless and there is ZERO recourse for these individuals. In the end, he turned all 8 people negative and got his way. Now does that sound right? No, no it doesn't. And the problem is that 99% of these people who grief are there for that single purpose, get people to go negative till they get their way since there is nothing that will happen to them. These people do not ask to party. You could try to get mobs to kill them but that's actually harder to do than anything.

I'll even take you to a more recent example. On Saturday I decided to do Sausans for a hour in the morning when normally there aren't many people on so I can grind in piece. Guy comes over, see's I'm doing the main rotation and asks if he can party. I invite the guy since my only goal there was money and grind with him for a half hour before a problem occurred. A valk decides he didn't like the fact that someone was doing the main rotation in a group and decided to jump the rotation. The guy in my party asks him if he wants to join and he doesn't answer continuing to kill the mobs. As soon as that happened it was obvious what he was trying to do, get us to go negative. He does it for 10 more minutes till I've had enough and just PK him. He tears, comes right back at me to try to get me to kill him again but I didn't. My only words were "enjoy the dec". He continues to act like an a-hole for the next 15 minutes. Once the dec comes through he disappears for a minute but eventually comes back as he swapped to a DP build. It look me 5 minutes to kill him because all he did was block against a non-grab class. He died once, disappeared for good. The only way he would leave is because of a dec, had that not been a possibility the likelihood of not only me but the person I was grinding with going negative would be high. If a guildless person or a person in a guild who can't be dec'd on this does this same thing there is nothing that can be done. Like I said, 99% of people who grief and bomb peoples karma are a-holes with one intention, getting your spot with zero recourse against them.

Edited by TeRRoRibleOne
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Posted

I see all of these gankers complaining about karma bombing.. .Since when did the ganker become the victim??.. If karma bombing were not possible, the people who've played longer will always have the upper hand on those who have not. Bascially, the people with the best gear will improve faster than those with less gear.

If you had a game without karma bombing, the later you join the game, the more difficult the game will be for you...In other words, you'd kill the game.

You don't have special rights to grind somewhere and ask everyone else to leave that spot, that area doesn't belong to you.. I find it hilarious that people actually think they can ask someone to leave when they have no more right to grind in that spot than they do. They actually feel like they're being cheated by karma, while they're cheating someone out of grinding.. Errr? What? I'm sorry but, you're inconveniencing them more than they're inconveniencing you.

The karma system is there for a reason, so stop crying when you try to hog a grind; because you're just being selfish.

I've never once asked someone to leave an area because they started to grind there, because i'm not so stupid as to think I have special rights to that area.

It's the millennials man... no respect for anyone or anything.

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Posted (edited)

I fully support Karma bombing, and all future implementations of PVE biased mechanics that further impair pvp retribution.

 

 

Also, btw, this is like the 15th thing I've called and was correct about.

 

Seriously, I'm Nostradamus at this point. I not only stand vindicated, I've outlived every naysayer here on the forums, including CM_Tytyes.

I've literally got the video content of doing this for 8 hours to Blade Bouquets. I'm still debating if I'm going to put it together for a vintage Black Piracy Online 2.

 

Let's just say after I was done, the poor guy had that 1,000 yard stare when he looked at his EXP bar at the end of the night.

Edited by Duke_Von_Sausage

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Posted

Secondly, allowing endless ganking has problems of it's own. As stated above, it basically allows people to just pick someone they don't like, or just pick someone at random, and endlessly lock them out of the game. What do they do in this situation?

Change. Channel.

 

Believe it or not most people in this game are reasonable, but the prejudice they gain through continued grief and hate creates this KoS mentality and the wish to punish.

Do you people know what being negative even does? I spent billions on my gear and hundreds of millions on my crystals, I have grinded hours equivalent to the time you have been able to breathe to this game. Is it weird that I just want to kill you(in game ofc)?

If they removed the ridiculous risk it is to be negative then sure I have no problem with you dedicating yourself to becoming cancer.

Become Ebola for I care. As long as I don't have to risk everything I have just to protect my grindspot.

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Posted

One Question to all this. 

When does PvP end and Karma Bomb Start?

Was fighting 4 people yesterday at pirates, i was alone grinding there when 2 of them attacked me and 2 joined later. 

Yes, i got killed pretty often but i also killed them quite a few times, even all 4 at one point. 
I was never flagged for PvP on my own the whole time. (went on for 2 hours roughly)

They must have lost a shitload of karma, yes. 

I would not consider that karma bombing in my eyes. 

Tho... what really defines karmabombing? Attacking people again and again if you have no chance at all?

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Posted

One Question to all this. 

When does PvP end and Karma Bomb Start?

Was fighting 4 people yesterday at pirates, i was alone grinding there when 2 of them attacked me and 2 joined later. 

Yes, i got killed pretty often but i also killed them quite a few times, even all 4 at one point. 
I was never flagged for PvP on my own the whole time. (went on for 2 hours roughly)

They must have lost a shitload of karma, yes. 

I would not consider that karma bombing in my eyes. 

Tho... what really defines karmabombing? Attacking people again and again if you have no chance at all?

If you intended to PvP and not to grief you would have flagged occasionally.

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Posted

You didn't buy the spot.  Don't play MMOs if you don't want to learn to share!

You don't own anything, Jon snow.

 

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Posted

If you intended to PvP and not to grief you would have flagged occasionally.

i actually did, but most of the time i didn't need to because i was attacked right away ....while fighting mobs most of the time ^^

killed all 4 at one point of the 3 hours fight, and no i'm not even close to 200 ap :)

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Posted

I see all of these gankers complaining about karma bombing.. .Since when did the ganker become the victim??.. If karma bombing were not possible, the people who've played longer will always have the upper hand on those who have not. Bascially, the people with the best gear will improve faster than those with less gear.

If you had a game without karma bombing, the later you join the game, the more difficult the game will be for you...In other words, you'd kill the game.

You don't have special rights to grind somewhere and ask everyone else to leave that spot, that area doesn't belong to you.. I find it hilarious that people actually think they can ask someone to leave when they have no more right to grind in that spot than they do. They actually feel like they're being cheated by karma, while they're cheating someone out of grinding.. Errr? What? I'm sorry but, you're inconveniencing them more than they're inconveniencing you.

The karma system is there for a reason, so stop crying when you try to hog a grind; because you're just being selfish.

I've never once asked someone to leave an area because they started to grind there, because i'm not so stupid as to think I have special rights to that area.

It is not cheating to kick someone from where you were grinding if you believe that it's ok to karma bomb and come and steal other persons grind spot. Yes it is not his or anyones. However, community has a set rule of it's own to where people are being nice and respectful to each other because we are fellow gamers. So on that perspective you are wrong. I do agree tho that karma bombing is not illegal by no means. However, karma bombing is very annoying and not cool. Another thing about your post i do not understand is if you take out karma bombing it will kill the game? Why? Just the matter of fact fella I'll tell you that it won't. Reason you might ask? Well here is an example. From my personal experience of me being at a high level and decent gear score I'll tell you one thing. You will never have people that are stronger than you are at your grind spots, explaining: If you are to grind rogues, manes , elrics etc... they all have level based mobs, therefore a smart player would never go and grind there unless its a guild mission! 99% of the time i always face against people of my gear score and level, and I'm either better than them or not at pvp. So respectfully thinking that you are one of the kids that doesn't know how to pvp, always complains and doesn't know the game in general, plus a troll. That is just my opinion. Another thing i can tell you about karma bombing is that 99 percent of the time people would ask you to leave nicely, you said it your self. Now if you don't leave because they were nice to you, you are now a troll in their eyes and therefore they kill you. Now you say whats about it? Well with your logic ill tell you that this person shouldn't be punished than either because he is fighting you off from a grind spot that doesn't belong to anyone by your words so in which case he should not lose karma because you are just bad at pvping. That is the logic of bdo majority so you will have to deal with it

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Posted

if s1 is an a**h*** kills you on your grinding spot without a warning and then calls you phelp, karma bombing seems fair.

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Posted (edited)

its just pussi cats that whine about karma bombing and can't handle being red cuz they're bad.

 

~red4life

 

when the 'strong' are actually just weak xD

Edited by remat

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Posted (edited)

Amount of autism and social justice warriors with room temp IQs is insane. You people are mentally ill. "he does not want to pvp he wants to make me sad" type of talk is pure autism. This is a niche Genre, sandbox/sandpark. Open world political/player driven content is the main feature, if you people really think that when someone attacks you in a open world free flag pvp game is doing it to "emotionally hurt you" you are delusional. Games like EvE/Archage/BDO are for people who enjoy open world chaos, in depth economy/crafting and political pvp.

If you idiots want a libtard catered MMO, you have many options, Guild wars 2, World of warcraft ect. Did someone in this thread really call someone who works for their money and gear "entitled" are you -----ing retarded? Socialism is mental illness. How do some of you people live? I assume off your parents and government socialist welfare programs, and never worked for anything in real life.

Sandbox/sandpark games require real life hard work ethics, you don't like games where people who work harder than you, get rewarded and advanced faster than you? Hey go play a -----ing themepark mmo retards, not a sandbox focused mmo.

common sense.

News flash kids, the developers of these Niche sandbox mmos are not out to cater to the majority of MMO gamers, they are building a product to cater to the niche crowd who enjoy the open world ganking, gear grind, work focused, and the large scale siege commander play style.

Removing the karma system would not kill this game, it would just remove a large amount of the mentally retarded brainwashed communist brats. EVE online is a perfect example of a successful hardcore sandbox mmo that has been thriving for 17 years on a small niche community. The sandbox market is not trying to get world of warcraft players, your not the target audience of this kind of mmo. 

Thank god i spent 10 years in the U.S Marine Core that taught me true hard work and critical thinking skills. I feel sorry for libtards and brainwashed millennials with no future.

 

P.S if you are crying about Karma bombing you need to find a diff MMO. It's easy to deal with, this is a sandbox mmo, people are free to use and abuse every system that is in place to gain advantage, it's up to you, to find solutions to this problem (which there are several) instead of crying and behaving like idiot with no critical thinking skills.

 

Edited by HownyKorean

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Posted

Im sensing that this person is either

A. level 55 at sausans who keeps going on others claimed rotations and getting -----ed up cuz hes dumb

B. Someone whos never grinded and only life skilled and doesnt get the way things work. (You OWN a rotation when you claim it, as long as you can fight to enter it)

Karma bombers are easy to deal with if theyre in a guild. Just war dec them.

You step on my rotation and you dont leave when you're told ill either get on my negative alt and camp you or war dec you if you're in a guild.

Karma bombers are self entitled pricks who cant hold a rotation cuz they dont have friends.

He was probably baiting

The reasoning & beliefs he has sound so much like communism, then a big tip is in his original post is mirror reasoning

"this system is here for a reason"

no reason given other than calling others meany heads

gg

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Thank god i spent 10 years in the U.S Marine Core that taught me true hard work and critical thinking skills. I feel sorry for libtards and brainwashed millennials with no future.

Emphasis mine.

Your first sergeant is disappointed in you, boot.

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Posted

One Question to all this. 

When does PvP end and Karma Bomb Start?

Was fighting 4 people yesterday at pirates, i was alone grinding there when 2 of them attacked me and 2 joined later. 

Yes, i got killed pretty often but i also killed them quite a few times, even all 4 at one point. 
I was never flagged for PvP on my own the whole time. (went on for 2 hours roughly)

They must have lost a shitload of karma, yes. 

I would not consider that karma bombing in my eyes. 

Tho... what really defines karmabombing? Attacking people again and again if you have no chance at all?

There is no definitive number to when contesting a spot becomes karma bombing, but typically if you 1)Aren't willing to flag yourself, 2) are dying more than you're grinding or 3) Don't even fight back.. I'd say you're on a good verge of what most would consider karma bombing.

I find that the problem is fixed if the person trying to take the spot is willing to flag to take it.. a lot of problems are avoided, of coarse unless you win and they don't recognize your victory and just come back to grind without contesting it back xD

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Posted

Amount of autism and social justice warriors with room temp IQs is insane. You people are mentally ill. "he does not want to pvp he wants to make me sad" type of talk is pure autism. This is a niche Genre, sandbox/sandpark. Open world political/player driven content is the main feature, if you people really think that when someone attacks you in a open world free flag pvp game is doing it to "emotionally hurt you" you are delusional. Games like EvE/Archage/BDO are for people who enjoy open world chaos, in depth economy/crafting and political pvp.

If you idiots want a libtard catered MMO, you have many options, Guild wars 2, World of warcraft ect. Did someone in this thread really call someone who works for their money and gear "entitled" are you -----ing retarded? Socialism is mental illness. How do some of you people live? I assume off your parents and government socialist welfare programs, and never worked for anything in real life.

Sandbox/sandpark games require real life hard work ethics, you don't like games where people who work harder than you, get rewarded and advanced faster than you? Hey go play a -----ing themepark mmo retards, not a sandbox focused mmo.

common sense.

News flash kids, the developers of these Niche sandbox mmos are not out to cater to the majority of MMO gamers, they are building a product to cater to the niche crowd who enjoy the open world ganking, gear grind, work focused, and the large scale siege commander play style.

Removing the karma system would not kill this game, it would just remove a large amount of the mentally retarded brainwashed communist brats. EVE online is a perfect example of a successful hardcore sandbox mmo that has been thriving for 17 years on a small niche community. The sandbox market is not trying to get world of warcraft players, your not the target audience of this kind of mmo. 

Thank god i spent 10 years in the U.S Marine Core that taught me true hard work and critical thinking skills. I feel sorry for libtards and brainwashed millennials with no future.

 

P.S if you are crying about Karma bombing you need to find a diff MMO. It's easy to deal with, this is a sandbox mmo, people are free to use and abuse every system that is in place to gain advantage, it's up to you, to find solutions to this problem (which there are several) instead of crying and behaving like idiot with no critical thinking skills.

 

Does the U.S. Marine Core take complete retards or was this a drug fueled dream that never actually happened.

Disagreeing with people and calling them autists for that reason, you're the kind of bottom of the barrel scum that absolutely disgusts me. Hiding your own insecurities by making others seem inferior to yourself. ----- off and go play outside

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Does the U.S. Marine Core take complete retards or was this a drug fueled dream that never actually happened.

Disagreeing with people and calling them autists for that reason, you're the kind of bottom of the barrel scum that absolutely disgusts me. Hiding your own insecurities by making others seem inferior to yourself. ----- off and go play outside

 

While i do agree with you about the way he speaks and all...; he is right about one thing:

People are simply not ready to handle real red players or free-over-aggressivity coming from ... well... everywhere. (sausans style for example)

BDO is not to be taken seriously, because hate & Cie can become quite the thing once the nerves are broken.

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Posted (edited)

its just pussi cats that whine about karma bombing and can't handle being red cuz they're bad.

 

~red4life

 

when the 'strong' are actually just weak xD

Most redplayers I see are near Heidel killing weak players like the Karma Bomber guild ^^

Some things I love the most in this video is: They attack you but don't have the balls to finish you off xD Mobs can do it (Happens sometimes but yeah idc)

Both sides are crying? PK players killing other "Carebears" - that little carebear is crying, PK Player is like Har har my virtual penis grew a bit more.
A "Carebear" bombs a PK player - That BIG PK Player is crying cuz his virtual penis lost some size.

Then, people want 10 minutes of karma invisibility. Uhh yeah sue, I can wait. Like Korea? Sure, I'm in. Please do it 1:1

Even more cry cry, I can wait those 10 minutes for getting more benefits cuz they lose a bit more than just your small 60K on kill.

Your Karma got nerfed already , but you are crying about Karma Bombers and still want a better Karma system? xD

I can say you what that is: Killed AFK-Fishers finally taking revenge xD

Edited by 앨리슨

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Everyone who did buy the game is allowed to play the game how they want to play it. If you Want to be a crafter, trader pve player so be it, but next to that some want to be the bad person, outlaw, griefer in a VR alter ego. Both RL players have the same rights to play the game however they want it and all the BS of others getting bombed or griefed makes me laugh. Go play Rust or ARK for the matter to know what real hardcore griefing can be in a game. If your unlucky, just get out of the zone and go grind somewhere else. It's just like going to a bar, if you know there is a bully who would hit you in the face, do you stay and grow some balls and hit him first or just leave to another location... 

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I've never once asked someone to leave an area because they started to grind there, because i'm not so stupid as to think I have special rights to that area.

So if someone shows up to your area, you leave?

What gives the new intruder special rights to the area?

I see your original point, the system does discourage bullying, except it enables reverse bullying too much

If you are relatively new or undergeared you won't encounter it much yet, but the stronger you are the more frustrating it is, I was pirates in a 5 man group and some new player randomly showed up but we told him it was full, so he proceeded to pull mobs in main rotation anyway.  3 of us just started grinding with alt+c active, not wasting time chasing him but he would die to the aoe we dropped on the mobs easily.  Eventually most of my party members left in frustration, so I invited him to the party, he did 3 laps in the rotation with me and then said he had to go.

Clearly this guy just enjoyed griefing us, he is the cancer of this game, not the overpowered ap monkey that pushes you out of jungle rotation.

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Everyone who did buy the game is allowed to play the game how they want to play it. If you Want to be a crafter, trader pve player so be it, but next to that some want to be the bad person, outlaw, griefer in a VR alter ego. Both RL players have the same rights to play the game however they want it and all the BS of others getting bombed or griefed makes me laugh. Go play Rust or ARK for the matter to know what real hardcore griefing can be in a game. If your unlucky, just get out of the zone and go grind somewhere else. It's just like going to a bar, if you know there is a bully who would hit you in the face, do you stay and grow some balls and hit him first or just leave to another location... 

That comparison makes me think you've never been to a bar

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So if someone shows up to your area, you leave?

What gives the new intruder special rights to the area?

I see your original point, the system does discourage bullying, except it enables reverse bullying too much

If you are relatively new or undergeared you won't encounter it much yet, but the stronger you are the more frustrating it is, I was pirates in a 5 man group and some new player randomly showed up but we told him it was full, so he proceeded to pull mobs in main rotation anyway.  3 of us just started grinding with alt+c active, not wasting time chasing him but he would die to the aoe we dropped on the mobs easily.  Eventually most of my party members left in frustration, so I invited him to the party, he did 3 laps in the rotation with me and then said he had to go.

Clearly this guy just enjoyed griefing us, he is the cancer of this game, not the overpowered ap monkey that pushes you out of jungle rotation.

So basically:
5 players had a huge problem that 1 other player is nearby
1 player didn't care at all that even 5 other players are nearby

which makes the 1 a "griefer"?

you just need to play smarter. make him lose his time. you dont want "waste time", you dont want to negative, you want to do absolutely nothing at all, just make him leave on your order. that doesn't work.

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Posted (edited)

you just need to play smarter. make him lose his time. you dont want "waste time", you dont want to negative, you want to do absolutely nothing at all, just make him leave on your order. that doesn't work.

^ exactly that.

most of the players which don't want to waste time or try to outfarm the "griefers" until they get bored just dont want to because they are afraid they might actually lose that way. Since classes aren't balanced, some classes are way better at 1v1 and ganking, some are way better at grinding & clearspeed. So the people who chose "duelist" classes with less grind efficiency are just trying to force rules on everyone else which benefit them the most.

The Players who KNOW they can beat the shit out of others and/or outfarm them hard or can manage to get them killed by npcs, just do so and have nothing to fear when going negative.

Edited by Escapism

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