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Witch needs buff!

Witch needs buff   92 votes

  1. 1. Really?? Witch needs a buff/change?

    • yes
      39
    • no
      47
    • I prefer that XX gets changed to YY (say in chat)
      6

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

31 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hello,

 

I'd like to have:

1. Animation-cancelling on all my skills

2. I-frame/30% evasion on dodge(either of the two is fine)

3. 30% cast speed passive

 

I'm fine with trading 25-35% damage, for any of the above changes!

 

 

cheers

Edited by Bananaru

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Posted

Trading 30% damage for 30% eva on dodge? No thanks.

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Posted (edited)

Hello,

 

I'd like to have:

1. Animation-cancelling on all my skills

2. I-frame/30% evasion on dodge(either of the two is fine)

3. 30% cast speed passive

 

I'm fine with trading 25-35% damage, for any of the above changes!

 

 

cheers

No

No on evasion, maybe iframe on a cd

No

We don't need any altering, buffing, nerfing or w/e. Let them do what they mentioned and bring other classes up. If you're having trouble evading stuff or surviving in pvp, we can all give advice that isn't  related to dumb suggestions

 

Edited by ManlyBeard

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Posted

Witch needs a spell that lets her float in the air and go over chasms and stuff. I would buy a ghost costume if she could do that spell. Woooooooooo

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Posted

would like to see healing aura not heal others, lighthouse have a longer cd, protective aura get reworked to where you cycle that and magic shield for active damage reduction to deal with us being so damn squishy.  some of the animation shortened/more passive cast speed, and block on magical evasion.

and our ultimate not be trash. 

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Posted

Highly unlikely to ever get what OP wants as his 'cons' are what makes the class playstyle iconic

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Posted

I'm fine with trading 25-35% damage, for any of the above changes!

the hell nope. i could play ninja or whatever if i want to play a faceroll class 

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Posted

witch here..

fix our 100% please.. it's not very good.

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Posted

please buff witch! it's only #3 most op class in the game, I don't want to learn how to play

 

/s

 

aMYJTT.png

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Posted

please buff witch! it's only #3 most op class in the game, I don't want to learn how to play

 

/s

 

aMYJTT.png

you might notice that this is a wrong assumption of how you should balance everything right?

for example a witch/wizard and dark knight has alot of big aoe spells which makes ksing in rbf and nodewars really easy and even without doing anything you just get the kills.

Single classes can only pick them one by one and has a less chance of ksing theyr opponent meaning a way lower kda.

Tanks are supposed to be classes which receives dmg and holds the enemie at bay they never intended to kill alot of pple theyr goal was being a goal.

As my conclusion this retard who made this did not know what he was doing taking all these useless examples and putting it togheter.

Kuno and ninja has a lil less dmg overall then the best spot DK, the other classes does insignificiantly less dmg then these classes but theyr still not considered strong and even on this chart last place. Thise is because of theyr defense and skill to play meaning if you engange with your kuno/ninja you might be aware that youu get caugth in aoe so you can only shave the single targets which makes it alot harder to gain easy kills such as aoe dmg classes.

Giants have in korea an AP meta and not DP like in EU and NA. Because they  have less desync the berserker is getting punished alot more for going in making his kda obviously low.

Musa and meawha only dash side from side there is currently no class who can pcim up the speed with them so theyr kda is obv higher then others. Ranger was always big dmg in Korea but they lack CC, because they are already feared by the average korean for theyr strength it will be easyer to make kills with this class in Korea.

Idk anything about tamer.

In the end it is a bad chart made up by people who despise AOE classes and praise single target classes. Instead of making such a chart they need to help us with our chart how to calculate the ACTUAL output of the class and leave the rest of to the players because the skills of the player depends on the lvl, gear, luck, situation and alot of other factors which makes it impossible to balance.

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Posted

Kill stealing, sure.  Though it's not really a steal when you drop an AoE that can slag more than half someone's HP.  If they would have killed the target in their next attack without any help, that's just them getting a kill.

Witch's don't need a buff, they don't particularly need a nerf either.  They're very strong, have a few weaknesses.  It keeps in line with most of the other classes.  I'm not aware of them having huge bugs, but I don't study the class much.

I've been killing them more in RBF lately on Tamer, but I don't count that as them being weak.  The players just haven't been escaping as well as they usually do, which says more about player talent than it does about the class.

PS: I'm kind of a scrub, so I would know.  >.>

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Posted

Witch needs a spell that lets her float in the air and go over chasms and stuff. I would buy a ghost costume if she could do that spell. Woooooooooo

If you youtube ashes of creation mage gameplay, you'll find a visual of this spell in action.

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Posted

Kill stealing, sure.  Though it's not really a steal when you drop an AoE that can slag more than half someone's HP.  If they would have killed the target in their next attack without any help, that's just them getting a kill.

Witch's don't need a buff, they don't particularly need a nerf either.  They're very strong, have a few weaknesses.  It keeps in line with most of the other classes.  I'm not aware of them having huge bugs, but I don't study the class much.

I've been killing them more in RBF lately on Tamer, but I don't count that as them being weak.  The players just haven't been escaping as well as they usually do, which says more about player talent than it does about the class.

PS: I'm kind of a scrub, so I would know.  >.>

well ofc it depends on ccs at the end of the day

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Posted (edited)

Kill stealing, sure.  Though it's not really a steal when you drop an AoE that can slag more than half someone's HP.  If they would have killed the target in their next attack without any help, that's just them getting a kill.

Witch's don't need a buff, they don't particularly need a nerf either.  They're very strong, have a few weaknesses.  It keeps in line with most of the other classes.  I'm not aware of them having huge bugs, but I don't study the class much.

I've been killing them more in RBF lately on Tamer, but I don't count that as them being weak.  The players just haven't been escaping as well as they usually do, which says more about player talent than it does about the class.

PS: I'm kind of a scrub, so I would know.  >.>

Like I stated before the dmg of the witch and wizard is overall the same of the other classes meaning that if one of these classes do dmg against one target it is equal how fast he dies. The aoe did not get a reduce dmg so it is basicly the same dmg but aplied to every person inside those aoe making this class one of the fearsome classes in the game. 

Although these classes are good in group pvp they are insignificiantly bad at single target because they werent build with that kit in mind.

They are justifieing every class without considering how they are supposed to be played so probably in the end they will make the aoe classes the weakest classes giving them a supportive roll.

What I am stating in my previous post is that instead of balancing things like this they will have to look at the source output of the dmg which is inflicted on the foe. The skill of the player by playing theyr class can not be measured correctly becuase the players are not equal in gear, lvl and such.

Therefor giving every class the right roll how to play the class and support the weaknesses of other classes  and balancing these numbers how they are supposed to play needs to get more priority.

In the end there aint a perfect balance and we all know that but giving every class the right amount of dmg and tools to make theyr plays possible is equally important. Instead of just making a rotation for metas so people will play every class and call it "balanced".

If they upgrade everyones dmg except the aoe classes it is basicly going to be the battle of gods using one ability to kill them all. IF they upgrade the dp they aswell you wont get a battle of the gods but it is equal to just nerfing aoe classes because every class gets a boost of ap and dp except for these. Which I am afraid of is that the class is in the end only playable one way because they get nerfed so badly that they can not kill without the necessary ap meaning the class is useless untill you reached end game. The players who will start these classes will give up fast giving a drop in the class itself and just like the tamer only the people who feels like theyr playing dark souls will hold on to the better end.

So when we are about to grind for example at pirates we won't be able to kill someone because of the increase of dp in pvp and we arent able to kill him in one go. The other classes which arent aoe's gets an increase in AP aswell so basicly we are getting outdmged and killed. 

Someone who is grinding has not the necessary ap to fight back meaning every aoe class gets pooped on by other players.

I hope you will understand my concerns better.

edit: an alternative way to solve is is to decrease the dmg output the more targets you hit with every class making survivability better in groupfights.

Edited by Beirut

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Posted

Witch needs a spell that lets her float in the air and go over chasms and stuff. I would buy a ghost costume if she could do that spell. Woooooooooo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTCU43JWTSg

Like this? :P

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Posted

I think OP forgot to take his git gud potion

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Posted

I clicked on this thread for the Kappa and now I'm sad..

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Posted

Like I stated before the dmg of the witch and wizard is overall the same of the other classes meaning that if one of these classes do dmg against one target it is equal how fast he dies. The aoe did not get a reduce dmg so it is basicly the same dmg but aplied to every person inside those aoe making this class one of the fearsome classes in the game. 

Although these classes are good in group pvp they are insignificiantly bad at single target because they werent build with that kit in mind.

They are justifieing every class without considering how they are supposed to be played so probably in the end they will make the aoe classes the weakest classes giving them a supportive roll.

What I am stating in my previous post is that instead of balancing things like this they will have to look at the source output of the dmg which is inflicted on the foe. The skill of the player by playing theyr class can not be measured correctly becuase the players are not equal in gear, lvl and such.

Therefor giving every class the right roll how to play the class and support the weaknesses of other classes  and balancing these numbers how they are supposed to play needs to get more priority.

In the end there aint a perfect balance and we all know that but giving every class the right amount of dmg and tools to make theyr plays possible is equally important. Instead of just making a rotation for metas so people will play every class and call it "balanced".

If they upgrade everyones dmg except the aoe classes it is basicly going to be the battle of gods using one ability to kill them all. IF they upgrade the dp they aswell you wont get a battle of the gods but it is equal to just nerfing aoe classes because every class gets a boost of ap and dp except for these. Which I am afraid of is that the class is in the end only playable one way because they get nerfed so badly that they can not kill without the necessary ap meaning the class is useless untill you reached end game. The players who will start these classes will give up fast giving a drop in the class itself and just like the tamer only the people who feels like theyr playing dark souls will hold on to the better end.

So when we are about to grind for example at pirates we won't be able to kill someone because of the increase of dp in pvp and we arent able to kill him in one go. The other classes which arent aoe's gets an increase in AP aswell so basicly we are getting outdmged and killed. 

Someone who is grinding has not the necessary ap to fight back meaning every aoe class gets pooped on by other players.

I hope you will understand my concerns better.

edit: an alternative way to solve is is to decrease the dmg output the more targets you hit with every class making survivability better in groupfights.

How is their damage the same overall?  Target for target, attack for attack, wizards/witches have it better.  The class balance is still okay in the end, because in all games you have to outplay your opponent, but when you compare numbers and do the math, witches and wizards kill you before you kill them if gear is equal.

That wasn't even my point though.  The crowd doesn't need a damage buff, and there's nothing wrong with wizards and witches having amazing damage, nothing wrong with it at all.  What there is a problem with is them having twice the built in accuracy on their awakening skills of the others on average.

If your class gives you damage and accuracy for free, and your drawback is that you're squishy...it only makes sense that you would stack defense as a player.  I think this is a pretty big oversight on design.  If they crippled wizard/witch accuracy, and forced you to do AP/Acc builds instead of dumping into defense or see a drop in damage, then you would have the weakness of traditional casters...because then it's an actual choice instead of a no-brainer.

Even though I was having a good killing streak with witches lately, all you need is to see one with high DP/Evasion laugh at your combo and turn you into a puddle to remember their class needs some adjustment.

The very fact that you say The players who will start these classes will give up fast giving a drop in the class itself and just like the tamer only the people who feels like theyr playing dark souls will hold on to the better end means that you have a grasp on what makes a class desirable or undesirable, but that has nothing to do with balance.

I play a Tamer.  I'm a scrub, but even I can win fights against "OP" classes.  Has my class been nerfed into oblivion?  If you pay attention to what makes a class desirable, yes it has.  If you pay attention to what a class can actually do and learn to play it?  No, no it hasn't.

Honestly I think it would be best if Witches and Wizards became much less desirable, it would give a change of pace in NW at least. :D

 

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Posted (edited)

How is their damage the same overall?  Target for target, attack for attack, wizards/witches have it better.  The class balance is still okay in the end, because in all games you have to outplay your opponent, but when you compare numbers and do the math, witches and wizards kill you before you kill them if gear is equal.

That wasn't even my point though.  The crowd doesn't need a damage buff, and there's nothing wrong with wizards and witches having amazing damage, nothing wrong with it at all.  What there is a problem with is them having twice the built in accuracy on their awakening skills of the others on average.

If your class gives you damage and accuracy for free, and your drawback is that you're squishy...it only makes sense that you would stack defense as a player.  I think this is a pretty big oversight on design.  If they crippled wizard/witch accuracy, and forced you to do AP/Acc builds instead of dumping into defense or see a drop in damage, then you would have the weakness of traditional casters...because then it's an actual choice instead of a no-brainer.

Even though I was having a good killing streak with witches lately, all you need is to see one with high DP/Evasion laugh at your combo and turn you into a puddle to remember their class needs some adjustment.

The very fact that you say The players who will start these classes will give up fast giving a drop in the class itself and just like the tamer only the people who feels like theyr playing dark souls will hold on to the better end means that you have a grasp on what makes a class desirable or undesirable, but that has nothing to do with balance.

I play a Tamer.  I'm a scrub, but even I can win fights against "OP" classes.  Has my class been nerfed into oblivion?  If you pay attention to what makes a class desirable, yes it has.  If you pay attention to what a class can actually do and learn to play it?  No, no it hasn't.

Honestly I think it would be best if Witches and Wizards became much less desirable, it would give a change of pace in NW at least. :D

 

DP witches are only good against people who are underlvled or has a low gear score. IF you take a DP witch and a class with atleast 200 ap it doesnt matter what the DP witch will burn.

The class is made with great dmg but has also a great disadvantage.

The class has no:

  • mobility
  • lots of hp
  • combos
  • casting speed
  • animation cancel

The reason why DP witches goes DP is because they can not do the amount of necessary dmg so they need a cheap way out to still support the team. The block of the witch will get stronger just like any other class the more DP you stack.

More survivability == supporting your team

The problem is that the AP will shrek atm no matter how high you go at DP. A DP witch will do great but at the late stages it relies heavily on theyr teammates were the AP witch can be alot more independed.

If the witch and wizard has to focus alot on both ends AP and DP it will become a losing class. It will lacks all the necessary tools to compete in grinding spots. Every class will be able to anhiliate this class and without the necessary combos it becomes a slow broken class.

You want to nerf the class to the ground or am I wrong?

to do good atm you need atleast 200 AP a dp witch will have around 120 AP and wont even be able to finish you off unless he KS you.

Edited by Beirut
typo

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Posted

I don't want to nerf the witch/wizard into the ground, no.  Not at all.  I would like them to be less desirable, however.  Lowering the innate Acc on their awakened skills would do a long way.  An overall 10% reduction on everything would be proper.  They'd still have high accuracy.  I understand that when you have 1 big attack, you really want it to hit and be effective, but I really don't think gear wise that this class is forced to choose like everyone else is.

And 200AP won't drop a properly made DP witch fast enough.  If they're worth anything as a player they can escape with enough health to either heal up or counter. 

They don't need combos.  I doesn't fit the style.

Teleport is on a long timer, I admit, but when used wisely it's some of the best mobility around.

Animation cancel on a wizard/witch would be destructive to the game environment.

Improved casting speed?  It's fine.  Cap it, use buffs /skills/add ons like everyone else.

 

If the witch and wizard has to work on both AP and DP it will become a losing class?  That is a pretty silly statement, I hope you realize.  Especially considering you're talking to a Tamer. :D

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Posted (edited)

I don't want to nerf the witch/wizard into the ground, no.  Not at all.  I would like them to be less desirable, however.  Lowering the innate Acc on their awakened skills would do a long way.  An overall 10% reduction on everything would be proper.  They'd still have high accuracy.  I understand that when you have 1 big attack, you really want it to hit and be effective, but I really don't think gear wise that this class is forced to choose like everyone else is.

And 200AP won't drop a properly made DP witch fast enough.  If they're worth anything as a player they can escape with enough health to either heal up or counter. 

They don't need combos.  I doesn't fit the style.

Teleport is on a long timer, I admit, but when used wisely it's some of the best mobility around.

Animation cancel on a wizard/witch would be destructive to the game environment.

Improved casting speed?  It's fine.  Cap it, use buffs /skills/add ons like everyone else.

 

If the witch and wizard has to work on both AP and DP it will become a losing class?  That is a pretty silly statement, I hope you realize.  Especially considering you're talking to a Tamer. :D

put the ritardando and paralysis at almost 100% accuracy then I will agree. 

Teleport can be interupted twice and has a chance of rubberbanding leaving you with no escape at all.

 

Although I have to agree on alot of things you sayd. I still think if the class loses ap the one who gets hurt are the progressing players. If you are talking about nerfing the lvl up from the class itself then there is plenty room to do so but only at the late stages. The problem people which they will face now is that it is getting harder and harder to flag up in the end there will be an increase in witches and wizards as karma bombers and seeing the forums this will be quite dispicable.

nvm I saw your other post I was wrong what you were refering to

edit: Like I sayd before the sturdy DP witch will melt with the right amount of ap especially in teamfights. Other classes such as valks can go DP as well and like any other class this will only be annoying brick and that is all. The dp witch do not do the required amount of dmg to fear him. If you play a good class and have keen sences he will only be able to heal up once that is 30% if you are normal he heals twice 60% health and when you let him go he will heal 90% of his HP every 30 seconds. Stay close and he won't be able to do anything.

Edited by Beirut

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Posted

Progressing is like that, though.  You can't annihilate people even if you've got 200AP if your below level and your skills aren't giving you the right bonuses.  That's true for every class.  And tools to hold a rotation?  Try bringing friends.  That's what I do when I have trouble and a wizard blows me up, taking my rotation.  >.>

Though leveling doesn't have much to do with this.  They can leave the pve damage/acc alone, don't care a bit about that.  My class has enough skills that are nerfed for PvP that get used anyway.  /shrug

It's right that you argue to safeguard the position of your class, I don't blame you for it.  Though you make it sound like you're in a delicate place, that one tweak will send you spiraling into obscurity and make you a laughing stock, but it's not really true.  >.>

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Posted

I wasn't trying to say it like that but you are certainly right. The class can be tweaked I'm just not fond of people which are mindlesly stating the class should be nerfed because my class is weaker in theyr view.

You thought about what you would change about the class and you had alot of good pointers. A nerf on some parts is indeed necessary but stating what should be nerfed is sometimes really hard especially if you know that a class may not function anymore as it is supposed to. I am mainly using witch so I did get a bit touchy on this subject and seeing sometimes results of tests you probably would also feel amazed why it turns out like this. 

But the skill ritardando and Paralyse should be buffed >:D

it hits atm 1/20 times 

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Posted

Hello, Fought a DP witch the other day.

230ap with just the usual tri boss gear so 263dp (Maehwa).

Witch was around 360dp and 160 ap. I could do about 15-25% her health if she had mana shield and protected area on and half her health without protected (using a full combo which includes a hefty long stun stiff stun chain in the beginning). I'm one level higher than her too (60 vs 59).  Meanwhile she can kill me in one cc or drop me to about 15% my health. So Witch able to build full DP with minimal amount of AP can pretty much poop on most players (i'm guessing most players have around tri boss gear at this point if they pvp some might have kutum too). If the witch was 60 she would've probably one comboed me since i know them witch's get them nice skills at level 60. 

Tamers have it even worse than us. I'm surprised not more tamers have rerolled. My friend has 300 dp and he took 2-3 spells and just evaporated (probably cause they take 30% more magic damage or some shit).

Casters in most games are all squishy nukers with some utility, but at the current moment, Witch/Wizard can be build Tanky AF, with a shit ton of utility spells while also still dealing relatively high damage with not a lot of AP. 

I'm not saying nerf them to the ground but their numbers (mainly accuracy) really need to be looked at because at the moment they are way too high.

It says something when 55 of the top 200 dp players in KR are Witches....

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