• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Confused about trading and the so called profit.

16 posts in this topic

Posted

So there are alot of videos out there showing you can make big buck with crate trading.
There are plenty of people raving about it in game. So I figured I'll give it a go.

I started with something simple which does not take a huge investment a copper ore crate.
Current price of writing on eu:
10xcopper ore = 5400
1x blackpowder = 2719

So copper ore 1 crate = 8119 silver in material value not counting cp used/beer/worker.
Price on tooltip of crate = 1410 silver.

Now I made sure to connect my nodes from Calpheon(they are made here as a convenience) all the way to Altinova(I have not discovered valencia yet).
So I believe I got a distance bonus of 43%. Which makes those crates sell for 2000 silver at a trade manager, with bargain 2100 silver.

This is the part where I am confused so I am losing 8119-2100 = 6019 silver on a crate if i'm selling in Altinova.
For argument's sake I sell those materials on the MP, so that is 8119-35% = 5278 silver this is with no value pack. 

5278 silver MP vs 2100 silver trade manager

Now is the distance bonus to lets say valencia so much higher that I can break even or make profit?? 
For the record I am level 5 trading currently, does a higher level have effect on the base price of the crates?

Hoping someone can explain this one to me

Cheers,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Self process gathered materials

In a few instances, buying off the MP works out at a profit, but rarely, and only specific crates... and with a lot of MP luck

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 Not everything that has a price on market board sells.

Bargaining increases with trade level

Desert buff I'd only available at master2

Almost all market prices is set so that there is zero profit or negative prices. This is done intentionally by the developers.

No one will buy your mats if there's over 2900 listed. Some never sell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[...]Some never sell

Like chickens....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

It depends on what you're trading, in terms of profit. You're selling junk crates, where the materials are (IIRC) worth more if you just sell them outright. In fact, prior to Master 2, you'll make more money selling plywood/timber/ore than you will in selling crates. Even when an item is fully stocked on the market, it is selling (especially items to make high value crates). When it comes to crate trading, you're really not going to see the best profit until you're over Master 2, and selling Calpheon Crates and Bronze Crates in Valencia, with the Desert Trading buff. I'm also of the opinion that you should never buy mats for trading - gather/process them yourself - as it's only profitable to do so after you reach Master 2 (hence why it's profitable to sell plywoods used in Calph crates at low levels). 

In the interim, you can make decent money while leveling to Master 2 via Imperial Delivery - basically, press escape, click on "Trade Info" and you'll see Imperial Traders that are buying items from specific Trade Managers. As you can see in the image I added, Balenos (Velia) is purchasing items from Siuta in Heidel. Those items will sell for 250% of their value. As you can see at the top of the UI in the image, there's also a trade event taking place at Omar Lava Cave, wherein so long as the event is active I can buy goods from any other node and sell them for 200%. This will earn you an "ok" amount of money while leveling the skill - I don't time it, but I usually get 2-3 million (maybe more?) in a session before the magnate buff kicks in and makes it worthless. 

 

trade.PNG

Like chickens....

Chickens are better off sold to the vendor, tbh. 

Edited by Islarose
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

[snip]

Chickens are better off sold to the vendor, tbh. 

Yep :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If selling trade crates would be as easy and as profitable for the example you brought then everyone would be doing it.

First off choose what crates you will produce as in what actualy realy are profitable and what isnt.

Secondly make sure you have a worker empire where your slaves will produce majority of the items needed to craft to crates.

Third the area where you produce crates matters as it adds distance bonus. So for example if my workers produce bronze + zinc from Velia/Heidel region then i must craft the crates in Calpheon as it doesnt matter where you gather your materials when it comes to selling crates, it matters where you produce the crates.

Area where you sell your crates matters a lot too - theres a difference if youre selling in altinova or if youre selling in Valencia.

The trade buff you can get matter a lot - at trade master 2 you can get desert trade buff for 100 energy and this buff is the main reason why so many crates become profitable to produce.

I myself have a working calpheon, balenos, brass ingot and steel ingot crate production where 80-90% of the materials are gathered by my workers and the rest i buy from the market to get even amount of materials for the crate production.

 

Since you dont have master2 trading to get the buff then so far one way of making money is by selling calpheon crates to ancado harbor but the other crates you can take off the list till you reach master2.

 

Is crate production empire worth it? Yes

Is it easy to set up? Hard at first if youre new to the game but definetly learnable.

The only annoying part is getting master 2 trading.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

They made some recent changes to kinda nerf trading,  I assume a lot of the videos you are watching are from when you could trade items for 130% of their value.  Now the cap is 100%, so while its still profitable for seasoned traders, its harder for newer traders to take off.

The above posters really explained it well so  I don't have anything else to add.

Oh and yes the level of trade benefits your bargain rate a ton.Not the success rate, but the percentage added to the value of the crate.  Only trade with a successful bargain. I currently get about 30% more from a successful bargain.

Edited by Luciferia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Hoping someone can explain this one to me

Crafting ore crates will never be profitable and their main use is for levelling up trade as you can craft thousands of them easily with material your workers drag up. Even if you don't buy any of the materials, you'd make more money selling the raw material on the marketplace. If you're looking to make profit with crates you'll want to craft the more expensive ones such as Calpheon, Steel, Bronze, Brass and Jewellery. 

Now the cap is 100%, so while its still profitable for seasoned traders, its harder for newer traders to take off.

The latest patch has actually made it easier for newer players as they no longer need to waste 30 minutes switching channels to find 130% or a price that makes a loss, with the current 100% price pretty much everyone of the expensive crates is profitable even if you buy every item from the marketplace. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thanks for the responses, this clears up alot.

 

 

Cheers,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So there are alot of videos out there showing you can make big buck with crate trading.
There are plenty of people raving about it in game. So I figured I'll give it a go.

I started with something simple which does not take a huge investment a copper ore crate.
Current price of writing on eu:
10xcopper ore = 5400
1x blackpowder = 2719

So copper ore 1 crate = 8119 silver in material value not counting cp used/beer/worker.
Price on tooltip of crate = 1410 silver.

Now I made sure to connect my nodes from Calpheon(they are made here as a convenience) all the way to Altinova(I have not discovered valencia yet).
So I believe I got a distance bonus of 43%. Which makes those crates sell for 2000 silver at a trade manager, with bargain 2100 silver.

This is the part where I am confused so I am losing 8119-2100 = 6019 silver on a crate if i'm selling in Altinova.
For argument's sake I sell those materials on the MP, so that is 8119-35% = 5278 silver this is with no value pack. 

5278 silver MP vs 2100 silver trade manager

Now is the distance bonus to lets say valencia so much higher that I can break even or make profit?? 
For the record I am level 5 trading currently, does a higher level have effect on the base price of the crates?

Hoping someone can explain this one to me

Cheers,

You been watching/reading the wrong guides.

Crates are worth it only when you are Master 2 and have access to the desert bonus, making a Trent/Epheria to Valencia trip to cumulate all the +%.

Before, they cost more to make than you'll ever sell them. Some use them to level up trading, but it's at loss. And the "gathering yourself" argument is stupid. If you get all the resource by yourself, process them and sell them, you'll earn more money. In comparison, doing crates would be a loss.

Edited by zhagsten

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You been watching/reading the wrong guides.

Crates are worth it only when you are Master 2 and have access to the desert bonus, making a Trent/Epheria to Arehaza trip to cumulate all the +%.

Before, they cost more to make than you'll ever sell them. Some use them to level up trading, but it's at loss. And the "gathering yourself" argument is stupid. If you get all the resource by yourself, process them and sell them, you'll earn more money. In comparison, doing crates would be a loss.

pot, kettle anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Also, you might want to check out Black Desert Analytics to help you determine the profit margin on various crate types, imperial crafting, etc. both for items acquired manually/via workers, and/or if you choose to buy the raw mats off the market. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So there are alot of videos out there showing you can make big buck with crate trading.
There are plenty of people raving about it in game. So I figured I'll give it a go.

I started with something simple which does not take a huge investment a copper ore crate.
Current price of writing on eu:
10xcopper ore = 5400
1x blackpowder = 2719

So copper ore 1 crate = 8119 silver in material value not counting cp used/beer/worker.
Price on tooltip of crate = 1410 silver.

Now I made sure to connect my nodes from Calpheon(they are made here as a convenience) all the way to Altinova(I have not discovered valencia yet).
So I believe I got a distance bonus of 43%. Which makes those crates sell for 2000 silver at a trade manager, with bargain 2100 silver.

This is the part where I am confused so I am losing 8119-2100 = 6019 silver on a crate if i'm selling in Altinova.
For argument's sake I sell those materials on the MP, so that is 8119-35% = 5278 silver this is with no value pack. 

5278 silver MP vs 2100 silver trade manager

Now is the distance bonus to lets say valencia so much higher that I can break even or make profit?? 
For the record I am level 5 trading currently, does a higher level have effect on the base price of the crates?

Hoping someone can explain this one to me

Cheers,

crate selling only becomes very profitable at master 2 WITH the additional trading desert buff, when you add in bargain bonus, distance, bonus and the master 2 desert buff, crates sell for 4x+ (increasing with trade lvl) of its facevalue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

crate selling only becomes very profitable at master 2 WITH the additional trading desert buff, when you add in bargain bonus, distance, bonus and the master 2 desert buff, crates sell for 4x+ (increasing with trade lvl) of its facevalue. 

Yes and no.

The market price is to prevent skimming to create easy profits.

A lot of mats will simply not sell, or sell very fast, and thus can only be regulated to trading.

For instance, even if you can sell all your calpheon crate mats, there is upwards of 20k plywood always sitting on the market, and you can only sell in sets of 100.

on a daily bases you can create upwards of1000 plywood. It is unsustainable to keep putting it on the market.

While some people will keep relisting it in hopes of being the 1st one on the list to make it sell, at that point it's not even profitable for other faster moving products.

Anyone you ask can list 10 things on the market that will never sell, even at minimum price, and 10 things on the market that get instant sold out even on max price.

The crate vs market argument is dung-crap for anyone that actually plays BDO, and not armchair theorize it.

Crating is always profitable. It's just how much profit is worth your time. (except junk, aka sub bsp/beer crate ones)

Edited by Kuu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes and no.

The market price is to prevent skimming to create easy profits.

A lot of mats will simply not sell, or sell very fast, and thus can only be regulated to trading.

For instance, even if you can sell all your calpheon crate mats, there is upwards of 20k plywood always sitting on the market, and you can only sell in sets of 100.

on a daily bases you can create upwards of1000 plywood. It is unsustainable to keep putting it on the market.

While some people will keep relisting it in hopes of being the 1st one on the list to make it sell, at that point it's not even profitable for other faster moving products.

Anyone you ask can list 10 things on the market that will never sell, even at minimum price, and 10 things on the market that get instant sold out even on max price.

The crate vs market argument is dung-crap for anyone that actually plays BDO, and not armchair theorize it.

Crating is always profitable. It's just how much profit is worth your time. (except junk, aka sub bsp/beer crate ones)

Think you quoted the wrong person. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites